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Mountain Hopper

Marijuana legalization

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58 minutes ago, rm2551 said:

EXACTLY this. The social problems from these two things are night and day.

I agree insofar as the long term damages they cause. Alcohol tends to negatively affect the liver, pot tends to negatively affect the brain.

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17 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

I agree insofar as the long term damages they cause. Alcohol tends to negatively affect the liver, pot tends to negatively affect the brain.

You cannot OD on pot. Alcohol, being it is poison, you can easily OD.

The impacts of Alcohol abuse far outweigh the impact of pot abuse. Obviously the prevalence of alcohol and current illegal status of pot - you'd expect that, but, lets say there is a community that only has access to alcohol vs. a mirror community with only access to pot, I know where I'd be living. Not because of the access to pot, but primarily because it would be safer. Incidents of domestic violence fuelled by alcohol is a massive issue. Pot does not have the same effect as alcohol. It acts on people differently as well as effects heath differently as you say.

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1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

That's an opinion, not a fact. I say that because I believe personal responsibility, and a lack thereof, is equally if not more responsible. Even if heroin, crack and opiods were legal I for one would not take them.

The CIA bringing in Heroin from the Golden Triangle and flooding black communities is fact, not opinion. The CIA & FBI brining in Cocaine from Columbia & Peru in the 80's, turning it into Crack and flooding the black communities to fund the Contras is fact, not opinion. These are acts of treason against the American people, especially as both drugs are illegal.

However I do concede the point that no one forced anyone to buy and use the drug. The problem with that argument is why did they not focus on white communities? One could argue if they were doing it strictly for the loot flooding the white communities would have been the much better bet yet they chose to target the black communities. Why do you think that is?

 

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1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

I agree insofar as the long term damages they cause. Alcohol tends to negatively affect the liver, pot tends to negatively affect the brain.

Alcohol affects much more than simply the liver. It kills more brain cells than weed. It can destroy the lungs (I am sure weed could as well of you smoked enough). It can destroy the heart. It can weaken your immune system. And worse of all...it can make your dick not work. You never heard of some poor bastard saying, "Argh, dude...I smoked too much weed last night and when the old lady wanted a bit of the old in out, in out, no dice...I had the WEED DICK!!!"

Alcohol however, and the dreaded whiskey dick is commonplace.

Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those nutters who believes weed cures cancer, diabetes, ALS, and AIDS. I also believe weed can be both abused and psychologically addicting and seriously screw up a persons life. Then again, just about anything, even benign, can fuck up your life if you abuse it. The difference is alcohol can disable you, causes multiple diseases, and easily kill you. Weed can do none of that unless a large bail of it falls on your head that is.

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

whiskey dick

LOL, here that's known as brewers droop. And I'll raise my hand to being afflicted with that on the rare occasion...

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

I am not one of those nutters who believes weed cures cancer, diabetes, ALS, and AIDS.

No, but there is mounting evidence of the various ailments and serious conditions that can be significantly releived/reduced by medical cannabis. There are children with epilepsy here whose parents exhausted all options offered by all the doctors and have found vast improvements when treating with cannabis oil. It has made talk shows and the news a few times.

It seems the more research is done, the more good is found. Funny how facts have NOTHING to do with stigma and political agendas....

2 hours ago, IpMan said:

Then again, just about anything, even benign, can fuck up your life if you abuse it.

Exactly this. I have had issues with - well, - you name it! If its good fun, I have that shitty addictive personality trait that doesn't know when enough is enough. Of all my old vices are long gone. Except alcohol. That is gone as of last week. And is by far my biggest demon. Thing is, I have no problem with pot now. I'm not a kid going out with mates running amok. No desperate need to get high all the time. I will enjoy the odd session with my missus at home of a weekend - and that is all.

It will NEVER make sense in my view to have cannabis illegal and alcohol legal. Its politically motivated hypocrisy of the worst kind. It is a great example of how politics, like organised religion, makes everything WORSE.

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10 hours ago, rm2551 said:

LOL, here that's known as brewers droop. And I'll raise my hand to being afflicted with that on the rare occasion...

No, but there is mounting evidence of the various ailments and serious conditions that can be significantly releived/reduced by medical cannabis. There are children with epilepsy here whose parents exhausted all options offered by all the doctors and have found vast improvements when treating with cannabis oil. It has made talk shows and the news a few times.

It seems the more research is done, the more good is found. Funny how facts have NOTHING to do with stigma and political agendas....

Exactly this. I have had issues with - well, - you name it! If its good fun, I have that shitty addictive personality trait that doesn't know when enough is enough. Of all my old vices are long gone. Except alcohol. That is gone as of last week. And is by far my biggest demon. Thing is, I have no problem with pot now. I'm not a kid going out with mates running amok. No desperate need to get high all the time. I will enjoy the odd session with my missus at home of a weekend - and that is all.

It will NEVER make sense in my view to have cannabis illegal and alcohol legal. Its politically motivated hypocrisy of the worst kind. It is a great example of how politics, like organised religion, makes everything WORSE.

:goodpost:

 

Did you hear about old Jeff Sessions & Trump stating publicly they will go after states selling recreationally. What a couple of idiots...Cali just started selling recreational weed on Monday and Cali is the seventh largest economy in the world. So, let me explain how this is gonna go:

Sessions & Trump will crow on about this for a few months until all that sweet, sweet revenue and tax money comes pouring in. Trump will receive a call from multi-billion dollar corporations who are ready to dive into the deep end on the mary-jane pool. Multi-billion dollar corporations will ask Trump if he wants to go to jail, be impeached, insert bad situation here etc... Trump will have major change of heart and weed will be removed from the federal schedule of drugs and the issue will be finally handed over 100% to the states.

The fact is, once Cali went legal that was the beginning of the end for marijuana prohibition. 28 states have medical marijuana and 8 more recreational. 68% of the population approves of recreational marijuana and the corporations are chomping at the bit to get in on the action. I don't care what the fed govt wants, Cali will quite literally crush them as they are the #1 cash cow for the whole nation. It would be like Canada cracking down on Alberta for some stupid shit. Alberta would stop sending the checks and Canada would go bankrupt within a few months.

The best part of this regarding Cali is they are giving special advantage to underprivileged neighborhoods to open dispensaries over affluent or "white" communities. California believes that since the lower income neighborhoods have been targeted and persecuted in the past for weed use they should be the ones to first benefit financially from the new law. Also, they will be vacating all non-violent marijuana related convictions as well for those who apply.

Now THAT is how you treat your people.

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1 hour ago, IpMan said:

:goodpost:

 

Did you hear about old Jeff Sessions & Trump stating publicly they will go after states selling recreationally. What a couple of idiots...Cali just started selling recreational weed on Monday and Cali is the seventh largest economy in the world. So, let me explain how this is gonna go:

Sessions & Trump will crow on about this for a few months until all that sweet, sweet revenue and tax money comes pouring in. Trump will receive a call from multi-billion dollar corporations who are ready to dive into the deep end on the mary-jane pool. Multi-billion dollar corporations will ask Trump if he wants to go to jail, be impeached, insert bad situation here etc... Trump will have major change of heart and weed will be removed from the federal schedule of drugs and the issue will be finally handed over 100% to the states.

 

I'm no fan of Sessions who I consider a weak AG for not going after the Clinton Crime Syndicate.  That said, he is just enforcing the law as it exists.  It is the job of Congress to repeal those federal laws, not the Executive.

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3 minutes ago, cryingbluerain said:

I'm no fan of Sessions who I consider a weak AG for not going after the Clinton Crime Syndicate.  That said, he is just enforcing the law as it exists.  It is the job of Congress to repeal those federal laws, not the Executive.

Very true, on paper and in principal. However, money does not simply talk anymore, it dictates policy and law. Sessions & Trump do not stand a chance in this fight.

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4 hours ago, IpMan said:

Did you hear about old Jeff Sessions & Trump stating publicly they will go after states selling recreationally.

Mate, there is a Trump campaign speech where he bangs on about how he was surprised at how medical marijuana was doing some folks a lot of good and how he was going to "leave it to the states to decide" I'm sure you can look it up on youtube.

Problem is, everything that comes out of that man-child's mouth is of zero value as it could do a 180 degree change within the same sentence.

 

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27 minutes ago, rm2551 said:

Mate, there is a Trump campaign speech where he bangs on about how he was surprised at how medical marijuana was doing some folks a lot of good and how he was going to "leave it to the states to decide" I'm sure you can look it up on youtube.

Problem is, everything that comes out of that man-child's mouth is of zero value as it could do a 180 degree change within the same sentence.

 

He is a bastard.  Cant get his ass out of there soon enough

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23 hours ago, IpMan said:

The fact is, every single drug crisis in the US from Heroin in the late 60's to Crack in the 80's to opioids today has been a direct result of government policy.

So then people were forced to abuse drugs ipman, is that what you are saying? people make choices, many of them are bad choices.

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23 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

 I believe personal responsibility, and a lack thereof, is equally if not more responsible. Even if heroin, crack and opiods were legal I for one would not take them.

I agree Steve, people knew opiods were addictive when they took them. In this country our epidemic is people who are not being responsible for thier own choices

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16 minutes ago, kipper said:

So then people were forced to abuse drugs ipman, is that what you are saying? people make choices, many of them are bad choices.

Absolutely not and I stated such earlier. That being said, all things are NOT equal. It is much easier to say no when living in a quiet, middle class white community vs. the hopelessness of the ghetto. In the end though I do agree personal responsibility must take precedent, though on a sliding scale so to speak.

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7 minutes ago, IpMan said:

Absolutely not and I stated such earlier. That being said, all things are NOT equal. It is much easier to say no when living in a quiet, middle class white community vs. the hopelessness of the ghetto. In the end though I do agree personal responsibility must take precedent, though on a sliding scale so to speak.

I'm pretty poor by many standards. I have even been on the verge of homelessness and without work. I dont see how economics has much to do with this. Are people in calcutta more likely to be drug addicts than rich people in the Hamptons?  I don't think so.

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2 hours ago, kipper said:

I'm pretty poor by many standards. I have even been on the verge of homelessness and without work. I dont see how economics has much to do with this. Are people in calcutta more likely to be drug addicts than rich people in the Hamptons?  I don't think so.

Statistically speaking, indeed yes. Psychological health and social stability play a very major roll in regard to addiction.

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Drink responsibly! Yeah, right. How many actually do? I hate alcohol for what it's done to members of my family and I would have no problem if it was banned. Same with tobacco. I could give a rat's ass about weed.

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21 hours ago, IpMan said:

Very true, on paper and in principal. However, money does not simply talk anymore, it dictates policy and law. Sessions & Trump do not stand a chance in this fight.

I guess, if you say so IpMan.   Thing is if all these polls showing the majority of Americans favoring pot legalization are correct you would think that would have prompted some federal legislation by now.  Yet given all the money involved it has not.  So perhaps Sessions and Trump are doing you potheads a favor.  As they say, the best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it. 

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6 hours ago, cryingbluerain said:

I guess, if you say so IpMan.   Thing is if all these polls showing the majority of Americans favoring pot legalization are correct you would think that would have prompted some federal legislation by now.  Yet given all the money involved it has not.  So perhaps Sessions and Trump are doing you potheads a favor.  As they say, the best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it. 

Believe it or not I am a big believer in states rights insofar as it does not interfere with basic human and civil rights. Outside of that, a federal government cannot make one size fits all laws in regard to social engineering as different people want different things. Alcohol, weed, gambling, etc. should be up to the states to decide. If you want to smoke weed, move to a weed friendly state. If you are retired and don't give a crap about education and social services, move to Arizona with a very low tax rate. If you are Mormon, Utah is your paradise. That is where the true potential of the US lies. The Fed should be responsible for basic human rights, civil rights, infrastructure, etc. and ensuring the individual states don't fuck their citizens. 

Of course the enemy of a representative republic like the US is lobbying on the one hand and gerrymandering on the other. As long as both exist the average citizen has zero say in the process. 

Case in point: 1993 and a ballot measure was put forth to the people of AZ to fund the building of a baseball stadium. The voters overwhelmingly rejected the measure, collectively saying, if Jerry Colangelo wants a stadium, he can pay for it himself as he will be the one reaping the majority of the financial benefits. Well, Gov. Fife Symington overruled the will of the voters and approved the building of the stadium, to be paid for with an added sales tax the voters rejected. So, 80% of the AZ voters said no yet the Guv said hell yes!!! So much for a democracy, so much for voting. Also, medical marijuana passed twice in AZ and both times the Governor rejected the vote. It was finally approved on the third vote.

The fact is, if it benefits the rich, it will become law, if it benefits everyone else but the rich, it will never become law. I could be wrong but this is why I believe weed will finally be legal. There is just too much damn money to be made by the big players. 

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On 1/5/2018 at 10:02 PM, IpMan said:

Statistically speaking, indeed yes. Psychological health and social stability play a very major roll in regard to addiction.

Im not convinced. Fact is most heroin addicts started as pot addicts and you dont have to be poor to be an addict, many rich rock and roll people have been both pot addicts and heroin addicts.

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7 hours ago, IpMan said:

The fact is, if it benefits the rich, it will become law, if it benefits everyone else but the rich, it will never become law. I could be wrong but this is why I believe weed will finally be legal. There is just too much damn money to be made by the big players.

Yep. Money talk with politics far more than any pesky "majority want it" considerations.

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Posted (edited)

nevermind

Edited by luvlz2

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9 hours ago, kipper said:

Im not convinced. Fact is most heroin addicts started as pot addicts and you dont have to be poor to be an addict, many rich rock and roll people have been both pot addicts and heroin addicts.

Most contemporary heroin addicts (last 20 years) started as a result of the over-perscrition of opioid painkillers by their doctors. The ones prior are a mixed bag: alcohol, weed, coke, LSD, you name it. The fact is, there really is no gateway drug, you either have an addictive personality or you do not. Believe it or not there are many, many casual and recreational users of heroin out there who never develop an addiction. There has never been drug in existence on this planet where if a person does it once, or even a handful of times will become addicted unless they have the addictive personality traits required. Of course even those without a predisposition to addiction can become addicts if they are exposed to physically addicting substances such as opioids over the long term but in general, the fact is there really is no gateway drug. However, if you really want to lay the blame than alcohol & tobacco are your true culprits as both are physically addicting substances and very easily accessible...plus, they are socially acceptable as well.

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10 hours ago, kipper said:

Im not convinced. Fact is most heroin addicts started as pot addicts and you dont have to be poor to be an addict, many rich rock and roll people have been both pot addicts and heroin addicts.

:hysterical: Deary me.

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6 hours ago, IpMan said:

Most contemporary heroin addicts (last 20 years) started as a result of the over-perscrition of opioid painkillers by their doctors. The ones prior are a mixed bag: alcohol, weed, coke, LSD, you name it. The fact is, there really is no gateway drug, you either have an addictive personality or you do not. Believe it or not there are many, many casual and recreational users of heroin out there who never develop an addiction. There has never been drug in existence on this planet where if a person does it once, or even a handful of times will become addicted unless they have the addictive personality traits required. Of course even those without a predisposition to addiction can become addicts if they are exposed to physically addicting substances such as opioids over the long term but in general, the fact is there really is no gateway drug. However, if you really want to lay the blame than alcohol & tobacco are your true culprits as both are physically addicting substances and very easily accessible...plus, they are socially acceptable as well.

i dont believe there is such a thing as a addictive personality just people who willfully indulge themselves in risky behavior. Its not like was born yesterday but I have heard all of the excused by addicts. Legalizing drugs is only legalizing addicts, it helps nobody.

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