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Did Led Zeppelin make the right decision to break up?

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porgie66   
31 minutes ago, Strider said:

Si. Oui. Jah. Yes. Yes. Yes. A thousand times YES.

One listen to any Led Zeppelin concert should be all the proof needed to see that Bonham was irreplaceable. Tony Thompson? Alan White? Cozy Powell? Carmine Appice? Phil Collins? Don't make me laugh.

As for Jason Bonham, he was too young at the time. I'm sure he's a nice bloke and he can simulate the rudiments of his dad's sound and style, but he could not give Led Zeppelin concerts that feeling of being constantly on edge, never sure of what spontaneous combustion was going to happen next and when.

John Henry Bonham = IRREPLACEABLE.

As were John Paul Jones, Jimmy Page, and Robert Plant. Led Zeppelin was an equation for one-of-a-kind musical magick.

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Whole heartedly agree!!! Alchemy was gone when Bonzo died. Absolutely the right decision. 

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What was said about many drummers in any town easily as good as many great famous drummers live, some aspects yes,

many no. There are many guitarists in every town who can play live just as well as Jimi Hendrix. There are ?? I've never seen

anyone get even close to the whole enchilada. A few songs, maybe, but that's it. Michael Lee, who drummed with P/P, was

well liked by Jimmy for his Bonzo like boisterousness, but lacked many of Bonzo's subtleties. A final fact : Jimmy had a 

hell of a time after Zep finding a proper drummer for his playing, and Jimmy even said this caused much frustration.

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dandak   

Of course Bonzo was an integral part of the band. But if anybody thinks Jason could not fill in....listen to the O2 concert. Now tell me again how Jason could not fill in. That concert to me is better than most of zeps live stuff from the 70s and especially the 60s.

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porgie66   
5 hours ago, dandak said:

Of course Bonzo was an integral part of the band. But if anybody thinks Jason could not fill in....listen to the O2 concert. Now tell me again how Jason could not fill in. That concert to me is better than most of zeps live stuff from the 70s and especially the 60s.

Huh???

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5 hours ago, dandak said:

Of course Bonzo was an integral part of the band. But if anybody thinks Jason could not fill in....listen to the O2 concert. Now tell me again how Jason could not fill in. That concert to me is better than most of zeps live stuff from the 70s and especially the 60s.

f84899b79213b34fa985a720106a7954.gif

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IpMan   
On 7/12/2017 at 7:14 PM, Mithril46 said:

What was said about many drummers in any town easily as good as many great famous drummers live, some aspects yes,

many no. There are many guitarists in every town who can play live just as well as Jimi Hendrix. There are ?? I've never seen

anyone get even close to the whole enchilada. A few songs, maybe, but that's it. Michael Lee, who drummed with P/P, was

well liked by Jimmy for his Bonzo like boisterousness, but lacked many of Bonzo's subtleties. A final fact : Jimmy had a 

hell of a time after Zep finding a proper drummer for his playing, and Jimmy even said this caused much frustration.

I have personally known three drummers as good as Bonham or Peart and I have known at least 12 guitarist who were better than EVH, Satriani, or Vai as far as playing is concerned. Anyone with a bit of talent, feel, and a whole lot of practice and determination can become a virtuoso on an instrument. However, being a virtuoso is not the same as being a great musical writer or innovator. Those talents are inherent, not learned, one either has them or not and THAT is why Bonham, Peart, EVH, Page, and Hendrix became famous and the unknowns remain unknown. A smoking guitarist or a monster drummer can only take a band so far, but a mediocre guitarist or drummer who can write and / or innovate, can become immortal. That is why the talents who are famous thorough generations are famous, not because they can sweep pick or play triplets faster than Buddy Rich on meth, but because they brought something new to the table, or because they could write amazing music.

So yes, I indeed stand by my claim there are dozens if not hundreds of players in every large city who can play as well and better than every musical luminary out there, however that is ALL they can do and thus no one knows, or will know who they are.

Edited by IpMan

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Strider   
11 hours ago, dandak said:

Of course Bonzo was an integral part of the band. But if anybody thinks Jason could not fill in....listen to the O2 concert. Now tell me again how Jason could not fill in. That concert to me is better than most of zeps live stuff from the 70s and especially the 60s.

:faint1:

 

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13 hours ago, dandak said:

Of course Bonzo was an integral part of the band. But if anybody thinks Jason could not fill in....listen to the O2 concert. Now tell me again how Jason could not fill in. That concert to me is better than most of zeps live stuff from the 70s and especially the 60s.

errrrr so that leaves the 1980's? Why don't you say from their entire career. What an odd thing to say. The O2 show is a bit like eating a fresh baguette. Great at the beginning but gets a bit stale after a bit

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JTM   
On 7/13/2017 at 9:05 PM, dandak said:

Of course Bonzo was an integral part of the band. But if anybody thinks Jason could not fill in....listen to the O2 concert. Now tell me again how Jason could not fill in. That concert to me is better than most of zeps live stuff from the 70s and especially the 60s.

Ok, ''Jason could not fill'', there ya go, your question answered, yes he's a decent skin basher but he's not Bonzo... Besides, everybody needs a mate in the ''gang'' and Robert lost his, game over, end of etc etc...

Edited by JTM

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12 hours ago, JTM said:

Ok, ''Jason could not fill'', there ya go, your question answered, yes he's a decent skin basher but he's not Bonzo... Besides, everybody needs a mate in the ''gang'' and Robert lost his, game over, end of etc etc...

There are countless great musicians out there, no question.  But only Zeppelin is Zeppelin. As for their decision to quit, it was there's alone. Like I said before, it's not right or wrong or good or bad. It was a personal decision.  They may have made some brilliant music or it might have all been rubbish. We'll never know

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rm2551   

If Bonham had not tragically succumbed to his excesses, I get the feeling Page would have.

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JTM   
36 minutes ago, rm2551 said:

If Bonham had not tragically succumbed to his excesses, I get the feeling Page would have.

Whenever I see this picture of Jim with the JD I think what a fucking knob, bet those days embarrass him now, but hey, he survived..

Jimbo.jpg

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76229   
1 hour ago, rm2551 said:

If Bonham had not tragically succumbed to his excesses, I get the feeling Page would have.

I bet if you'd have asked 100 people in the music industry in 1980, will Jimmy live to see 1990, 99 would have said no. In that sense he did extremely well to pull out of it. We're lucky he's still with us.

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Strider   
9 hours ago, JTM said:

Whenever I see this picture of Jim with the JD I think what a fucking knob, bet those days embarrass him now, but hey, he survived..

Jimbo.jpg

So now we're gonna harp on Jimmy for knocking back a couple slugs of Black Jack? A perfectly legal substance, by the way. Jesus...the man was playing three hour shows with a broken finger and you want to begrudge him for numbing the pain with some good ol' Tennessee sour mash?

This was the 1970s...when rock stars were our collective hedonistic ids released. We didn't want them acting like namby-pamby R.E.M. wimps.

Yes, Jimmy did some bad shit in the 1970s. Yes, he is lucky to have survived. But there is no reason to be embarrassed by this photo.

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Walter   
1 hour ago, Strider said:

So now we're gonna harp on Jimmy for knocking back a couple slugs of Black Jack? A perfectly legal substance, by the way. Jesus...the man was playing three hour shows with a broken finger and you want to begrudge him for numbing the pain with some good ol' Tennessee sour mash?

This was the 1970s...when rock stars were our collective hedonistic ids released. We didn't want them acting like namby-pamby R.E.M. wimps.

Yes, Jimmy did some bad shit in the 1970s. Yes, he is lucky to have survived. But there is no reason to be embarrassed by this photo.

Plus it is my favorite backstage photo EVER! So rock n roll!  

What about Robert smoking a heater before going out there, coming off the flu and laryngitis?  He gets a pass?

It was the 70's, when rock was dangerous, performers were partying, and they were going out to play for the wasted, wasted, land...

Where was that pic taken anyway? 

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Strider   
5 minutes ago, Walter said:

Plus it is my favorite backstage photo EVER! So rock n roll!  

What about Robert smoking a heater before going out there, coming off the flu and laryngitis?  He gets a pass?

It was the 70's, when rock was dangerous, performers were partying, and they were going out to play for the wasted, wasted, land...

Where was that pic taken anyway? 

My instinct says one of the New York MSG or Nassau County shows in 1975...from the clothes it should be easy to determine the date.

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Walter   

I was thinking MSG too. His hair looks a little shorter too, imo. 

I have a shirt with that pic on it, but it's more pointillism than a photo.

Edit:  I looked at the time line and he wore that shirt combo at Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Nassau, Philly, MSG, and Seattle - that I saw. 

Edited by Walter

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JTM   
3 hours ago, Strider said:

So now we're gonna harp on Jimmy for knocking back a couple slugs of Black Jack? A perfectly legal substance, by the way. Jesus...the man was playing three hour shows with a broken finger and you want to begrudge him for numbing the pain with some good ol' Tennessee sour mash?

This was the 1970s...when rock stars were our collective hedonistic ids released. We didn't want them acting like namby-pamby R.E.M. wimps.

Yes, Jimmy did some bad shit in the 1970s. Yes, he is lucky to have survived. But there is no reason to be embarrassed by this photo.

Fair enough, though if the picture had shown Jimmy swigging on a bottle of beer I'd think nothing of it, JD is not meant to be swigged.                                               I look at the picture and I'm reminded of someone I knew who would do that sort of thing, always had do more than everyone else, he never knew when to stop.         Alcohol wrecked his liver, killed him at thirty five years old. The twenty second anniversary of his death was on the 11th last week. I used to call him a knob head to his face, often pulled him about his going to far, he would just laugh.... 

Apologies for being a bit morbid and sounding like an AA lecture.

Edited by JTM

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22 hours ago, Walter said:

I was thinking MSG too. His hair looks a little shorter too, imo. 

I have a shirt with that pic on it, but it's more pointillism than a photo.

Edit:  I looked at the time line and he wore that shirt combo at Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Nassau, Philly, MSG, and Seattle - that I saw. 

It's from Indianopolis, IND, Market Square Arena, 25 January 1975.  

 

21 hours ago, JTM said:

Fair enough, though if the picture had shown Jimmy swigging on a bottle of beer I'd think nothing of it, JD is not meant to be swigged.                                               I look at the picture and I'm reminded of someone I knew who would do that sort of thing, always had do more than everyone else, he never knew when to stop.         Alcohol wrecked his liver, killed him at thirty five years old. The twenty second anniversary of his death was on the 11th last week. I used to call him a knob head to his face, often pulled him about his going to far, he would just laugh.... 

Apologies for being a bit morbid and sounding like an AA lecture.

Ever been to Indiana?  You'd be slugging Jack too if you had to spend much time in Indy. Apologies in advance if you're from Indiana :)

 

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Well because of the incredible secrecy surrounding Page and Zep( Grant and Cole ,along with some hooked up lawyers)

It's impossible to find out if Page was constantly found near death or brought to an emergency room frequently. Many will

scoff at this , but Keith Richards, wasted as he was, not sure if he ever ended up in a ER. Yes he consumed massive

quantities of everything, but from what I heard if he didn't know ironclad the drug source, he would try only a very small

quantity before having it. I realize this sounds preposterous, but show me any gig or part of a show where Richards 

has broken fingers like Page 77'-80'. Now knocking down hotel doors, that certainly happened for Jimmy and Keith.

I don't know this for sure, but the 7/17/77 opener TSRTS, Page actually plays very well, but he actually does physically

appear like he hasn't totally woken up, or the coke is yet to hit, or massive doses of caffeine having a mild effect. Caffeine

would only work for heavy drug sleep or mild overdose, not pulse growing slower or heart rate dramatically lower. I am

only saying this because now there is a huge heroin problem and any unconsciousness, call an ambulance or get the

person to a ER. Caffeine will do almost nothing for a serious overdose.

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15 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

Well because of the incredible secrecy surrounding Page and Zep( Grant and Cole ,along with some hooked up lawyers)

It's impossible to find out if Page was constantly found near death or brought to an emergency room frequently. Many will

scoff at this , but Keith Richards, wasted as he was, not sure if he ever ended up in a ER. Yes he consumed massive

quantities of everything, but from what I heard if he didn't know ironclad the drug source, he would try only a very small

quantity before having it. I realize this sounds preposterous, but show me any gig or part of a show where Richards 

has broken fingers like Page 77'-80'. Now knocking down hotel doors, that certainly happened for Jimmy and Keith.

I don't know this for sure, but the 7/17/77 opener TSRTS, Page actually plays very well, but he actually does physically

appear like he hasn't totally woken up, or the coke is yet to hit, or massive doses of caffeine having a mild effect. Caffeine

would only work for heavy drug sleep or mild overdose, not pulse growing slower or heart rate dramatically lower. I am

only saying this because now there is a huge heroin problem and any unconsciousness, call an ambulance or get the

person to a ER. Caffeine will do almost nothing for a serious overdose.

This is true about Keith. He only took really good stuff but in his own words was never greedy and hardly ever took more than he needed to. Having said that, I have no idea how Keith has survived so far.

Page drunk a lot from the beginning to the end of Zeppelin but did smack every day for 7 years straight, then knocked it on the head. But he still drank and did coke. 

Not sure you are going to get two more debauched rock stars than Richards or Page. Just imagine if those rumours about Page joining The Stones came to pass. Keith and Jimmy in the same band touring the world. Carnage.

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dandak   
On 7/14/2017 at 5:31 AM, chillumpuffer said:

errrrr so that leaves the 1980's? Why don't you say from their entire career. What an odd thing to say. The O2 show is a bit like eating a fresh baguette. Great at the beginning but gets a bit stale after a bit

You guys are right about my statement as I mistyped it!   I left out EARLY in my statement. I think zeps EARLY 1970s gig and especiially the 1960s gigs were not quite there. To me the best live gigs were from maybe 1973 on. And I dodnt think o2 gets stale at all.

Edited by dandak

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