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MortSahlFan

Little Things You Don't Like About Led Zeppelin?

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47 minutes ago, juxtiphi said:

They got the editing wrong on Moby Dick at RAH, they totally mess with what you can see while John is doing is best moves by switching the camera angles back and forth so fast that you can't really get "watch" it.  As if switching the angle made it better 

Not to mention at the end of WIAWSNB, Jimmy clearly tunes his low E down to a D for Moby Dick, but they edited it to go straight into HMMT (which is in standard tuning)

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1 hour ago, juxtiphi said:

They got the editing wrong on Moby Dick at RAH, they totally mess with what you can see while John is doing is best moves by switching the camera angles back and forth so fast that you can't really get "watch" it.  As if switching the angle made it better 

That's just editing, why waste expensive colour film on a drum solo.

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Opinions are like rear ends:  Everyone's got one, and here's mine:

  1. Inconsistency of Robert Plant's lyric writing.  His lyrics range from cosmic highs to generic school boy scribblings.  Too many of the songs are written about him losing his woman and/or love.  Not expecting him to be Bob Dylan, but he never really wrote anything meaningfully deep.  "We just want it to be about the music, maaaan."
  2. Speaking of Percy, some of his lyrics were indecipherable anyway, especially later on.  Lockjaw from too much coca? 
  3. The Companion Discs.  I understand a lot of the stuff was already out there illegally, but most of the songs sound 98% like the original release.  Would liked to have hear more songs in their embryonic stages (see The Beatles "Anthology" discs).
  4. No audio releases of complete concerts, say from 1975 or even 1980.  Who cares if they weren't perfect sounding?
  5. Not putting "The Rover" on the Houses of the Holy album instead of "D'yer Mak'er."
Edited by dpat

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14 hours ago, juxtiphi said:

They got the editing wrong on Moby Dick at RAH, they totally mess with what you can see while John is doing is best moves by switching the camera angles back and forth so fast that you can't really get "watch" it.  As if switching the angle made it better 

just talking about the angles, not the editing. when they filmed from the stage and the crowd the band looked like it had a much bigger presence. there is magic in the camerawork as well as the editing. film them from down low and up close and they look powerful and in charge, while when filmed from far away they just look like a group of guys mucking around on stage.

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14 hours ago, Stairway is NOT stolen said:

Not to mention at the end of WIAWSNB, Jimmy clearly tunes his low E down to a D for Moby Dick, but they edited it to go straight into HMMT (which is in standard tuning)

im sure they had their reasons. they probably just felt that the track listing was better that way. they also put bring it on home at the very end but they played it before the other two during the encore. they also took out heartbeaker, sibly,  thank you and long tall sally.

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19 hours ago, sk8rat said:

im sure they had their reasons. they probably just felt that the track listing was better that way. they also put bring it on home at the very end but they played it before the other two during the encore. they also took out heartbeaker, sibly,  thank you and long tall sally.

I think i read they took out Thank you and SIBLY because Jonesy's organ and keyboard didn't record properly

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3 hours ago, Stairway is NOT stolen said:

I think i read they took out Thank you and SIBLY because Jonesy's organ and keyboard didn't record properly

yeah, I was told the organ wasn't hooked up to the soundboard so it didn't get recorded.

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On 8/23/2016 at 0:57 PM, dpat said:

Opinions are like rear ends:  Everyone's got one, and here's mine:

  1. Inconsistency of Robert Plant's lyric writing.  His lyrics range from cosmic highs to generic school boy scribblings.  Too many of the songs are written about him losing his woman and/or love.  Not expecting him to be Bob Dylan, but he never really wrote anything meaningfully deep.  "We just want it to be about the music, maaaan."
  2. Speaking of Percy, some of his lyrics were indecipherable anyway, especially later on.  Lockjaw from too much coca? 
  3. The Companion Discs.  I understand a lot of the stuff was already out there illegally, but most of the songs sound 98% like the original release.  Would liked to have hear more songs in their embryonic stages (see The Beatles "Anthology" discs).
  4. No audio releases of complete concerts, say from 1975 or even 1980.  Who cares if they weren't perfect sounding?
  5. Not putting "The Rover" on the Houses of the Holy album instead of "D'yer Mak'er."

As far as Robert's lyrics, they didn't bother me, but what I can't stand are the shrill "push, push yeah!s" in latter day TSRTSs. And I hate the poorly-pronounced, lowered pitch versions of OTHAFA; I actually prefer the MSG '77 version where he goes for the high notes, but can't hit them.

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Agree with Plant's inconsistency with the lyrics, but sort of like Jon Anderson  where the the singing  fits the song like

a glove,. My thinking is that Plant could sing the Yellow pages and make it sound great. IMO great lyrics with weak or

generic backup are much worse than incredible music  with indescriable or nonsensical lyrics( Plant a little bit, Jon

Anderson 90% of the time). And Page's habit of cleaning up every minute mistake on live stuff, I'm not interested.

The best way to come out with unreleased live stuff would be to leave in some "dirt" for authenticity, but Page simply

Will not do that. Too bad.

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Seems I'm not the only one who thought that sometimes Robert's voice can be over the top.  I guess in a live setting that's understandable, though.  

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With the exception of 'Darlene', there's nothing musical I don't like about Zeppelin - I love 'D'yer Maker', a lovely, sunny little number that brightens the mood whenever listened to (much like Houses of the Holy  in general) - but if there's one complaint I could level against the mighty Zeppelin, an actual complaint  and not a preference that something or other was different to how I would have done it, would be the standalone remastered CD editions of the recent remasters not coming in the original inner sleeves... or indeed, any  inner sleeves at all, leading to quite a few folks getting scratched or scuffed discs, and that's a shame because the extra care and attention to detail on the remasters, musical and otherwise, was exemplary... I'm betting the upcoming 3-CD set of BBC Sessions  will also lack any inner sleeves, alas...

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while I cant say I dislike it because it never happened, I would have loved for them to have reintroduced baby im gonna leave you when they started doing acoustic songs.

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The little things:

Not having Lyric sheets. Plant's singing style (or the Producers mixing him low) made Deciphering a lot of the lyrics From PG--->ITTOD difficult.

Not releasing a complete Live show from anything Other than the reunion.

The companion Discs.

 

 

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Not making it a point to really play these songs live:

When The Levee Breaks

The Wanton Song

The Rover

In The Light

Four Sticks

For Your Life

Custard Pie

Carouselambra

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The footage of them being filmed on a stage to reinact the gigs at MSG is annoying to see while watching The Song Remains The Same.

Not enough footage of them performing live.

No soundboard from Bath or 3/21/75 ;)

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I wish Robert and Jimmy hadn't been so disrespectful to JPJ for the entire decade of the 90s, and frankly I wish the band members were more appreciative of each other today.  From the outside, it just seems like they really don't care for each other, and that Bonzo was the only one each of them mutually liked and fully appreciated as an artist.  I think that has a lot to do with the lack of collaborative work of any sort in the past 18 years.  Watching all of the awkward tension between the three of them during the 2012 interviews after the release of Celebration Day was sad.

In reading this thread, I have to absolutely disagree on the bashing of You Shook Me.  I love that track.  The vocals are ridiculously powerful, and the three part solo (organ to harmonica to guitar (With ridiculous drum fills from Bonzo) ) are incredible.  I love the tone of JImmy's guitar in that solo.  It is one of my favorite all-time tracks.   Keep in mind, that album was recorded in 30 total hours, a mere three months after their first rehearsal, when Jimmy was 24, JPJ was 22, and Robert and Bonzo were just 20 years old.  Mindboggling how good they were at such a young age.

 

 

 

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I agree that You Shook Me is too bashed as well. However, When fans mention Plant's oversinging,.etc, this track

certainly has some of that. But he doesn't do it all the time, and to some degree Zeppelin was about going over the 

stop. The worst sin in rock is to sound ordinary, boring. I for example find Mick Jagger's vocals on certain tracks

somewhat irritating, but he IMO is hardly ordinary sounding as well, although he never could do Plant's acrobatics.

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6 hours ago, MonkeyOnMyBack said:

Keep in mind, that album was recorded in 30 total hours, a mere three months after their first rehearsal, when Jimmy was 24, JPJ was 22, and Robert and Bonzo were just 20 years old.  Mindboggling how good they were at such a young age.

It is almost beyond belief.

7 hours ago, MonkeyOnMyBack said:

In reading this thread, I have to absolutely disagree on the bashing of You Shook Me.

Bloody oath. It's a cracking good song, good fit on the release, and is amazing to listen to IMHO. The second one on BBC Sessions I love. Both of them actually, but the second more so. I have yet to hear the new one (3rd disk) as I am still waiting for the right time.

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When Robert Plant breaks into the "see saw marjorie daw" bit near the end of Gallows Pole. Ferchrissake Percy it's a brilliant song, it doesn't need a snatch of a kids nursery rhyme in it!! LOL

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12 hours ago, MonkeyOnMyBack said:

   Keep in mind, that album was recorded in 30 total hours, a mere three months after their first rehearsal, when Jimmy was 24, JPJ was 22, and Robert and Bonzo were just 20 years old.  Mindboggling how good they were at such a young age.

 

 

 

I've always wondered just how they managed to record the first album so quickly. I guess Dazed & Confused was a case of the whole band learning an arrangement already in place from the Yardbirds, then adding bits such as the Beck's bolero excerpt. Babe I'm Gonna leave you an arrangement that Page had already laid out by the time he met Plant in Pangbourne in July. BMS is a Page solo piece already in place, You shook me and Can't quit you babe covers of well known blues songs.

 

But that still leaves maybe 25 hours to come up with Good times bad times, Communication Breakdown, Your time is gonna come, and the complex arrangement for How Many More Times. And overdub & mix it. How the hell did they do it?!

 

On a related note, If I ever finish building that time machine in my garage, I'll set the controls straight for Olympic studios circa Sept 25th - Oct 2nd 1968. Imagine being a fly on the wall at those recording sessions. 

Edited by 76229

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By the 90's and Grunge much of the over the top debauchery had stopped, instead the introverted heroin deaths took over. Then by the 2000's underage girls in particular became much more guarded and protected due to the overexposure of the satanic craze of the late 80's and the purported use of underage girls in prostitution involved with such practices. It was essentially an extremely exaggerated response to the excesses of the 70's & 80's. Don't get me wrong, there is indeed a serious epidemic of "white slavery" in sex trafficking with both underage girls and boys, however one has nothing to do with the other but the bands were sure as hell not gonna take any chances. Plus, teenage girls of the 90's & 2000's are a far cry from those of the 70's especially. I remember growing up in the 70's & 80's and the teenage girls back then would pass as 20 somethings today insofar as appearance and 30 somethings as far as intellect and attitude goes.

I do not justify this behavior in the context of any time as time and experience are the only true teacher and these pubescent girls had neither and were thus unaware of their situation. Of course people can debate this until the sun ceases to shine and if discussed in most European countries has a very, very different attitude which is wholly based on context. Those darn Europeans and their infernal logic.

I simply believe that an adult should not be messing about with people under 18 years old in such a setting. Then again I enjoy deep, intellectual conversations and I have yet to meet anyone under 18 (even back in the day) who had any true insight. They may be quite intelligent but only time & experience can convey wisdom.

 

Other things I don't like about Zep: Only performed Four Sticks a handful of times in 71'. Hired John Bindon in 77'. Have not released official live recordings of 75' - 80' gigs.

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Pretty much a pretty good summary of how things changed with the underaged over time. Literally a 180' or a 240', whatever. Puzzled as well about 4 sticks. The 71' Copenhagen ?? of course sounds a bit different than studio, But IMO

the song worked very well live. And John Bindon ?? Peter Grant was out of his mind on drugs at that point, also Richard

Cole. I wouldn't be surprised if the band itself, even Page strung out, actually possibly felt very uneasy with what these

three maniacs might end up doing. Of course Grant stood totally behind the band, but still his wife's infidelity had put him

in a very nasty state. I think the band was probably terrified by Bindon soon enough, probably even afraid of firing him.

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On 8/23/2016 at 0:57 PM, dpat said:

Opinions are like rear ends:  Everyone's got one, and here's mine:

  1. Inconsistency of Robert Plant's lyric writing.  His lyrics range from cosmic highs to generic school boy scribblings.  Too many of the songs are written about him losing his woman and/or love.  Not expecting him to be Bob Dylan, but he never really wrote anything meaningfully deep.  "We just want it to be about the music, maaaan."
  2. Speaking of Percy, some of his lyrics were indecipherable anyway, especially later on.  Lockjaw from too much coca? 
  3. The Companion Discs.  I understand a lot of the stuff was already out there illegally, but most of the songs sound 98% like the original release.  Would liked to have hear more songs in their embryonic stages (see The Beatles "Anthology" discs).
  4. No audio releases of complete concerts, say from 1975 or even 1980.  Who cares if they weren't perfect sounding?
  5. Not putting "The Rover" on the Houses of the Holy album instead of "D'yer Mak'er.

 

Out of curiosity, which songs mark Plant's best and worst songs lyrically? (Anyone can answer)

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