JOHN PAUL JONES New Project

[SteveAJones]

Auckland, New Zealand September 7, 2009

[SteveAJones]

You could just as well call Led Zeppelin a Supergroup, made up of two highly respected session/live players and two guys from Birmingham who had a big reputation locally (enough to get them recommended to Jimmy Page).

One could but it would be gross revisionism and wholly incorrect if applied to their origins, at least based on the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of the term: a rock group made up of prominent former members of other rock groups.

Jimmy was the sole prominent (widely and popularly known) former member of another rock group at the time of Led Zeppelin's formation. It's true Robert and Bonzo were mainstays on the Ma Reagan club circuit, but so were hundreds of other lesser knowns. It's hardly a claim to fame on a much grander scale.

It is worth noting the use of the term supergroup was expanded to include an extremely successful rock group, which Led Zeppelin certainly became, and Them Crooked Vultures may ultimately become. Regardless, Them Crooked Vultures are a supergroup from inception by virtue of the fact Jones, Grohl, and Homme are all prominent former members of other rock groups.

[croquet'n'cocaine]

Yeah, but my point is that Cream (the very definition of a Supergroup), were made up of the famous Eric Clapton (though not world famous at that time I would say) and two members of the Graham Bond Organisation... who had no hit records and whose main claim to fame is that they had had two members of Cream in the band! So, all I'm pointing out is that Led Zeppelin weren't any different from that really. Jimmy obviously was quite well known, JPJ had played with The Shadows(!!) and was a big presence as a player and arranger on some big sessions and hit records, Percy was good enough that he was recommended to Jimmy by Terry Reid and Bonzo was playing with Tim Rose I believe? That kind of background doesn't seem much different to Cream does it? It's just that one is seen as a band and one is seen as a Supergroup.

It's not that I want Led Zep to be known as a Supergroup, I'm just pointing out the contradiction with Cream.

[SteveAJones]

Jimmy obviously was quite well known, JPJ had played with The Shadows(!!) and...

John Paul Jones was never in The Shadows so the point is moot. He collaborated with them, yes and they even

discussed having John replace bassist Brian Locking when he left the band in October 1963 but it was John Rostill who was ultimately brought into the group. I've already responded to all your other points. Cheers.

[croquet'n'cocaine]

John Paul Jones was never in The Shadows so the point is moot. He collaborated with them, yes and they even

discussed having John replace bassist Brian Locking when he left the band in October 1963 but it was John Rostill who was ultimately brought into the group. I've already responded to all your other points. Cheers.

Right.

Well, he played live with The Shadows, even if he wasn't a member. Which is what I said ("JPJ had played with The Shadows"). And he did prominent playing and arranging on sessions and hit records (Stones, Donovan), he played on Jeff Beck's Beck's Bolero which was a hit single (and something of a Supergroup while we're at it)... I'd say that JPJ had a far stronger pedigree than Jack Bruce, even if he'd technically not been a prominent member of another rock group.

I just don't see how Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker were prominent members of other rock groups either. Who the hell could name the members of the Graham Bond Organisation, except for those two, and only them because of Cream!

I'm not asking why Led Zeppelin are not considered to be a Supergroup, I'm asking why Cream are when their set-up was essentially no different from Led Zeppelin, or Fleetwood Mac and others.

And I don't see where you've responded to that question, other than giving a vague dictionary definition which doesn't particularly apply to Cream any more than many other groups.

[SteveAJones]

I'm not asking why Led Zeppelin are not considered to be a Supergroup, I'm asking why Cream are when their set-up was essentially no different from Led Zeppelin, or Fleetwood Mac and others.

And I don't see where you've responded to that question, other than giving a vague dictionary definition which doesn't particularly apply to Cream any more than many other groups.

The supergroup phenomenon has been explained in countless books and periodicals over the past 40+ years and I'm just not inclined to do so again in what is a thread meant to focus upon Them Crooked Vultures news.

Having said that, there are many loose definitions to choose from, I chose the two I believe are most universally accepted and understood. IMHO, Cream bore the supergroup moniker because Clapton, Baker and Bruce were considered to be cream of the crop musicians who came together to form a new rock group. You'd really have

to dig thru the archives to see how they were actually perceived as it happened, as opposed to 20 or 40 years

after the fact. I could probably dig up articles which suggested Led Zeppelin were Jimmy's new "supergroup",

but again it was also a phenomenon which may or may not fit a strict definition. Choose one that works for

you and enjoy the music. Otherwise, this is little more than a pedantic exchange over semantic points.

[Reggie29]

Supergroup is another label like Heavy Metal that was concocted by the media.

Who cares?

Now where and when can I get those freakin' tickets!?

[SteveAJones]

Supergroup is another label like Heavy Metal that was concocted by the media. Who cares?

Now where and when can I get those freakin' tickets!?

Correct, more or less: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Heavy_metal_music

Now turning our collective attention back to Them Crooked Vultures news, be sure to tune in to Triple J radio

this Thursday morning for further details on the much-anticipate upcoming tour of Australia & New Zealand!

[SteveAJones]

does anyone know the origin/meaning of Them Crooked Vultures?

Great question. I have given this much thought over the past few weeks and I'd like to share my findings here:

La gazza ladra - the translation is "The Thieving Magpie" - is a melodramma or opera semiseria in two acts by Gioachino Rossini. The libretto was by Giovanni Gherardini after La pie voleuse by JMT Badouin d'Aubigny and Louis-Charles Caigniez.The opera is best known for its overture, which is notable for its use of snare drums.

Rossini was famous for his writing speed, and La gazza ladra was no exception. It was reported that the producer had to lock Rossini in a room the day before the first performance (1817) in order to write the overture. Rossini then threw each sheet out of the window to his copyists, who wrote out the full orchestral parts.

This overture, beginning and ending in E major, though passing through G major, makes a few appearances in Stanley Kubrick's film 'A Clockwork Orange' and has also provided the background score for many television and radio commercials. It also appears during the famous baby-switching scene in Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon A Time In America'.

In conclusion, I propose the name Them Crooked Vultures was inspired by Rossini's overture as well as the colloquial expression "thieving magpies". Here's hoping JPJ will have an opportunity to confirm, deny or clarify.

[croquet'n'cocaine]

IMHO, Cream bore the supergroup moniker because Clapton, Baker and Bruce were considered to be cream of the crop musicians who came together to form a new rock group.

No, that's why they bore the "Cream" moniker. But anyway, the discussion has been declared closed. I was just curious about who gets classed as a Supergroup and who doesn't.

[SteveAJones]

No, that's why they bore the "Cream" moniker. But anyway, the discussion has been declared closed. I was just curious about who gets classed as a Supergroup and who doesn't.

I entertained about five pedantic posts from you on this topic and I get a fucking roll eyes smiley as a response?

Of course that's why they bore the "Cream" moniker- it goes without saying, but then I forgot I was exchanging posts with one who infers JPJ was in The Shadows merely because he collaborated and played live with them.

Ignore button: click.

[SteveAJones]

www.stereokill.net

Rock en Seine

by Markus Kernohan September 7, 2009

Venue: Domaine National de Saint-Cloud, Paris

Date: 30th August 2009

Day three of Rock en Seine opened with one of the best performances all weekend, as Metric stormed the Scène de la Cascade. The Canadian new-wave band have been kicking around in various forms since 2001, but it’s only now that they are finally getting the recognition they so deserve. Vocalist Emily Haines is equal parts Debbie Harry and Madonna; a waif in white bounding around the stage, while guitarist James Shaw hammers out edgy melodies. Haines’ soprano soars on “Sick Muse”, then drops to shouted verses and an electro chorus for “Dead Disco”. Throughout it all, Metric are tight and absolutely focused on giving their audience a good time. The thudding rhythms and dancing synths ignited a passionate response from a loyal crowd, and showed just why the music press are so excited about the Toronto four-piece.

Later in the afternoon, on the main stage, Paris’ rock corps emerged en masse for America’s sleaziest, scuzziest, sexiest rockers, Eagles of Death Metal. Alongside Cougar Microbes' Boaz, I had a close look at the band as they played, photographing them from the pit with a borrowed camera. Frontman Jesse Hughes is a force of nature when he’s onstage; bantering with the crowd almost constantly (and promising one sign-brandishing fan that “You can touch my moustache anytime, baby.”) EODM are a band who love everything about rock ‘n’ roll, and it shows in every chunky riff and grooving bassline. The crowd seemed to agree, singing back almost every word and moshing like it was the end of the world.

We had it on good authority that the band billed on the Scène de la Cascade as Les Petits Pois was actually newly-formed supergroup Them Crooked Vultures, and it seems that rumour had spread, judging by the thousands of fans packing the arena thirty minutes before they even came onstage. I couldn’t help but wonder if there might have been a riot if anyone but Josh Homme, John Paul Jones and Dave Grohl had stepped onto that stage, but the rumours held true and three legends of international rock emerged to rapturous applause.

With a line-up so distinguished, it was unlikely they were going to disappoint. Grohl still drums with the same wild vigour, and Homme is still the imposing frontman he ever was, drawling over massive riffs. Jones, meanwhile, lived up to his reputation as the legendary master of four strings, layering blues bass and heavy rhythms (and even taking a seat at the piano for one notable slow-jam). Onstage, Them Crooked Vultures are almost a jam band; a bunch of friends rocking out for the hell of it; it hardly matters that each has rock credentials of almost mythical proportions. The crowd didn’t know any of the lyrics, but that didn’t stop the orgy of crowd-surfing and head-banging, and the sense that we were witnessing a moment in rock history. And, as if the star-studded lineup onstage wasn’t enough, I also noticed one Brody Dalle sitting in the artist’s lounge backstage, which left me a little bit star-struck considering that Coral Fang was one of my favourite albums a few years ago.

As the afternoon heat started to cool and the Rock En Seine punters continued to drink, we prepared to watch one of 2008’s biggest new bands, MGMT. I tend to think that the songs which made them famous aren’t actually representative of their discography as a whole: their performance was a lot more guitar-heavy than I expected, with a kind of prog/psychedelic overtone that was both bizarre and hugely effective. Meanwhile, the crowd took every drop and asked for more. “Weekend Wars” was a drawling, shouted-back anthem, but the real benchmark was set by “Kids”, which drove the crowd wild with that oh-so-recognisable melody.

Next came a decision I made only begrudgingly: to go and watch Klasxons perform. I have made my feelings about the nu-rave movement very clear on this site, and I stand by them. To be fair, though, the band seem to have grown up a bit, and their crowd seem to have grown up with them: I noticed a distinct absence of glowsticks in the audience. The set was tight, but the music lacks any real spark to endear it to me. The crowd, however, seemed to be having a very good time – one cheery French teenager even handed our man Niall (from NNialler9) a half-bottle of rum, apropos of nothing.

Deciding which headliner to go and see is almost always a very tactical choice to make. Unfortunately, here it seemed like a foregone conclusion, as 75% of the festival crowd packed into the main arena for The Prodigy’s set. Niall and I, on the other hand, took a bold decision and decided to hang around the Scène de l’Industrie to check out Patrick Wolf. We were in a very definite minority – there were perhaps only a few hundred others there, though the applause that went up as the androgynous English songwriter took the stage was particularly raucous. Wolf is a hugely self-assured performer; a lanky figure in a bizarre outfit, headdress perched neatly upon his head, howling and wailing and throwing himself around the stage. Then, he takes a different turn, and strips away the sequined pelisse and headgear, letting long hair drop down and picking up a Flying-V, and for a moment he looks like nothing more than a glam-rocker in his prime. His was an enjoyable set, from an accomplished performer, but you couldn’t help but notice at least some of the energy being sapped away by the musical force of nature performing a little over half a mile away.

What can I write about The Prodigy that hasn’t been written a thousand times in a thousand publications more authoritative than mine? Only that they have to be seen to be believed. They are an electrifying spectacle, colliding around the stage like madmen while the bassline causes a minor tectonic event. And they certainly know how to work a crowd: I never imagined I’d hear tens of thousands of people screaming “Smack my bitch up”, and now that I have, I think I can die happy. Two of us stood, on a low hill overlooking the arena, and watched thousands of people partying like it was the end of the world. And it was beautiful. The band brought out every single hit from their twenty-year history, and the Rock En Seine crowd entered a state of reverent ecstasy. One day, the insanity will have to stop, but not yet. Please, God, not yet.

My personal summation of the weekend runs thus: Rock En Seine turned out to be a ludicrously good festival; the Europeans love their music, and they know how to show it. The weekend had its good performances and its not-so-good performances, but I discovered a couple of superb new acts in the process. Also, I get to say that I was there, not a mile away, when Oasis split up. And that’s pretty cool.

[slave to zep]

Great question. I have given this much thought over the past few weeks and I'd like to share my findings here:

La gazza ladra - the translation is "The Thieving Magpie" - is a melodramma or opera semiseria in two acts by Gioachino Rossini. The libretto was by Giovanni Gherardini after La pie voleuse by JMT Badouin d'Aubigny and Louis-Charles Caigniez.The opera is best known for its overture, which is notable for its use of snare drums.

Rossini was famous for his writing speed, and La gazza ladra was no exception. It was reported that the producer had to lock Rossini in a room the day before the first performance (1817) in order to write the overture. Rossini then threw each sheet out of the window to his copyists, who wrote out the full orchestral parts.

This overture, beginning and ending in E major, though passing through G major, makes a few appearances in Stanley Kubrick's film 'A Clockwork Orange' and has also provided the background score for many television and radio commercials. It also appears during the famous baby-switching scene in Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon A Time In America'.

In conclusion, I propose the name Them Crooked Vultures was inspired by Rossini's overture as well as the colloquial expression "thieving magpies". Here's hoping JPJ will have an opportunity to confirm, deny or clarify.

thanks for your response. hmm interesting......

yes, it would be great if one of the guys would come out and tell us how they arrived at tthat name. when i first heard it, i thought, oh jeeez what a stupid name ( i still don't like it ), but i also thought that it must have some special meaning to at least one of the guys. or maybe it's just a line or quote etc from one of their personal experiences. who knows.

[glicine]

thanks for your response. hmm interesting......

yes, it would be great if one of the guys would come out and tell us how they arrived at tthat name. when i first heard it, i thought, oh jeeez what a stupid name ( i still don't like it ), but i also thought that it must have some special meaning to at least one of the guys. or maybe it's just a line or quote etc from one of their personal experiences. who knows.

And google "The Thieving Magpie Jimmy Page", you'll find something interesting.

[SteveAJones]

And google "The Thieving Magpie Jimmy Page", you'll find something interesting.

Or don't bother. Will Shade is an anti-Page ax grinder. His entire presentation has already been picked apart and rebutted in the Zeppelin Mysteries Thread (page 15 or so).

[glicine]

Or don't bother. Will Shade is an anti-Page ax grinder. His entire presentation has already been picked apart and rebutted in the Zeppelin Mysteries Thread (page 15 or so).

I know, I'm just thinking about The Thieving Magpie and Zeppelin connection, ironically.

[SteveAJones]

thanks for your response. hmm interesting......

yes, it would be great if one of the guys would come out and tell us how they arrived at tthat name. when i first heard it, i thought, oh jeeez what a stupid name ( i still don't like it ), but i also thought that it must have some special meaning to at least one of the guys. or maybe it's just a line or quote etc from one of their personal experiences. who knows.

This from rolandjdc:

"Consequences of the Black Death"

Plague doctors wore a "primitive Hazmat suit" which frequently consisted of:

* A wide-brimmed black hat worn close to the head

* A primitive gas mask in the shape of a bird's beak

* A long, black overcoat

* A wooden cane

* Leather breeches

The result was, among other things, Doktor Schnabel Von Rom, Doctor Beak from Rome:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thunderthief, John Paul Jones, 2002 (artwork by Peter Blegvad)

I knew Peter Blegvad, he's a singer/songwriter, and a cartoonist as well -- he did the album cover. He's got a weird way of looking at things; just a strange, twisted sort of dark view. - JPJ

Them Crooked Vultures, 2009

[slave to zep]

wow, the things you come up with!

[SteveAJones]

wow, the things you come up with!

Right, well you've got the Doktor from Rome...with music by Gioachino Rossini...if it's completely wrong at least there are some obvious similarities to be seen with naked eyes, then just "follow what's heard".

[slave to zep]

Right, well you've got the Doktor from Rome...with music by Gioachino Rossini...if it's completely wrong at least there are some obvious similarities to be seen with naked eyes, then just "follow what's heard".

yeah, that looks so similar to the pic on jpj cd. eerie.

[croquet'n'cocaine]

I entertained about five pedantic posts from you on this topic and I get a fucking roll eyes smiley as a response?

Of course that's why they bore the "Cream" moniker- it goes without saying, but then I forgot I was exchanging posts with one who infers JPJ was in The Shadows merely because he collaborated and played live with them.

Ignore button: click.

You're a funny one.

I don't know where I'm supposed to have inferred that JPJ was "in The Shadows". I only ever said that he'd played with them. WTF??

I'm also not sure where "pedantic" comes from. A pedant is "one who pays undue attention to book learning and formal rules", and all my posts are doing quite the opposite and questioning the "book learning and formal rules" which invariably refer to Cream as a Supergroup. There is even a book on Amazon called "Cream - The World's First Supergroup". It's just a curious little point, the likes of which you are happy to analyse and debate ad nauseum in your many posts on various Zep-related forums. This one seems to have really riled you. Did your grandad die in a tragic Supergroup-related accident or something?

[croquet'n'cocaine]

Then was the face of Baffometus changed:

His eyeballs rolled like fire-flames,

His nose became a crooked vulture's bill,

The tongue hung bloody from his throat; the flesh

Went from his hollow cheeks; and of his hair

Grew snakes, and of the snakes grew Devil's-horns.

Delightful.

[Walter]

^

Back to the topic. Any word on a release date/time frame for the disc yet? Love the updates they send via e-mail!

[BillyMacQ]

You're a funny one.

I don't know where I'm supposed to have inferred that JPJ was "in The Shadows". I only ever said that he'd played with them. WTF??

I'm also not sure where "pedantic" comes from. A pedant is "one who pays undue attention to book learning and formal rules", and all my posts are doing quite the opposite and questioning the "book learning and formal rules" which invariably refer to Cream as a Supergroup. There is even a book on Amazon called "Cream - The World's First Supergroup". It's just a curious little point, the likes of which you are happy to analyse and debate ad nauseum in your many posts on various Zep-related forums. This one seems to have really riled you. Did your grandad die in a tragic Supergroup-related accident or something?

No, but once again SAJ is trying to position himself as a Led Zeppelin "insider" and you're effectively raining on his parade. While his clueless minions genuflect and gush over his Google search skills, you on the other hand have the AUDACITY to question his "expertise." How dare you?!

[Nech]

so...... has a release date been extrapolated ? WTF no New York dates?

Outside looking in, hate to say it... but until the official release comes out, once past the initial headrush of a new JPJ project... (is it even really HIS project ? ) all the awful sounding utube and ill eq's torrents are making me how shall I say... headachey ?