Jimmy Page as Executive Producer

[Dallas Knebs]

As a point of discussion, what do you think Page's contributions are as an executive producer?

People tend to view his work with Led Zeppelin through a lens of being a guitar player. This is to say, he is a guitar player who also produces. While true, I have heard and been a part of several interesting conversations over the years that focus just on the production side of things. Selecting and managing engineers. Spending months mixing. With the depth of experience in this forum, it interests me to know what you feel about Page's work as EP for Led Zeppelin.

What has come up in conversations previously:

1. A few people think the title EP is a label more than anything.

2. Some have feverishly made a case that Page's producing outweighs his contributions as co-songwriter, possibly even outweighing his guitar playing

3. More than one conversation has anchored the point that Page's producing was too heavy and stifled the band.

4. Page excels at collaboration in his producing just as he does in songwriting, song performance- his dynamics as producer bring out the best in the band

Discuss please? Very interested to know what you think and where you are on this. Gratzi.

[Wolfman]

#3 is a joke. I would go with #2.

[Geezer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NJi3I-M8oU

[Bong-Man]

I think you may be confused. The title of this thread should be "Peter Grant as Executive Producer".

[Dallas Knebs]

thank you for pointing this out- predictive texting got me and I didn't notice.

So continuing on... Jimmy Page as Producer discussion

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[bluecongo]

Jimmy was, for those 12 years, a production genius. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot and an uninformed dolt.

Name me ONE other "guitar player" who wrote, recorded, and produced their own body of work.

Townshend = No

Hendrix = Close, but no.

Clapton = Gimme a break, no

Beck = God no

Santana = Oh please

Van Halen = No

The only comparison I can really think of is Prince.

His production techniques and ideas have resulted in sales of 300,000,000 units, second only to the Beatles, how can his production techniques even be criticized? Should he have sold 500,000,000 instead?

[the chase]

Jimmy was, for those 12 years, a production genius. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot and an uninformed dolt.

Name me ONE other "guitar player" who wrote, recorded, and produced their own body of work.

Townshend = No

Hendrix = Close, but no.

Clapton = Gimme a break, no

Beck = God no

Santana = Oh please

Van Halen = No

The only comparison I can really think of is Prince.

His production techniques and ideas have resulted in sales of 300,000,000 units, second only to the Beatles, how can his production techniques even be criticized? Should he have sold 500,000,000 instead?

Frank Zappa, Todd Rundgren, Lyndsey Buckingham.

all excellent Guitar Players, Songwriters and Producers.. otherwise I agree.

Jimmy Page is in my opinion the best Hard Rock Producer.. certainly the most succesful.

He set the standard and so far nobody has come close.

[bluecongo]

Frank Zappa, Todd Rundgren, Lyndsey Buckingham.

all excellent Guitar Players, Songwriters and Producers.. otherwise I agree.

Jimmy Page is in my opinion the best Hard Rock Producer.. certainly the most succesful.

He set the standard and so far nobody has come close.

I'll give you Zappa, but Lyndsey Buckingham did not produce many of Mac's best efforts, at least not by himself. Todd Rundgren is not a "guitarist" primarily.

Jimmy stands alone at the top of the rock heap.

[Geezer]

Townshend = No

Yes.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Geezer

[bluecongo]

Yes.

He's not listed as the sole producer on the Who's works. Therefore, Jimmy > Townshend

[Dallas Knebs]

from what I hear, one of Page's highest achievements as producer is each song has its own sound and identity.

[ZoSo1960]

I agree with you completely

Jimmy was, for those 12 years, a production genius. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot and an uninformed dolt.

Name me ONE other "guitar player" who wrote, recorded, and produced their own body of work.

Townshend = No

Hendrix = Close, but no.

Clapton = Gimme a break, no

Beck = God no

Santana = Oh please

Van Halen = No

The only comparison I can really think of is Prince.

His production techniques and ideas have resulted in sales of 300,000,000 units, second only to the Beatles, how can his production techniques even be criticized? Should he have sold 500,000,000 instead?

[Melcórë]

He's not listed as the sole producer on the Who's works. Therefore, Jimmy > Townshend

Of course, people have challenged the degree to which Pagey was "sole producer" of the Zeppelin albums.

[Da Hammer]

IMO the finished product of Led Zeppelin studio recordings is just right for each song. Some are meticulously worked on like Ten Years Gone, and others are just natural as the band laid them down like SIBLY. How Page was able to craft each song and each album is amazing to me. I don't think his contributions to the band or music in general as producer can ever be undervalued. Then there is him and a guitar....... A musical genius IMO.

[nirvana]

In Through the Outdoor was a Plant, Jones, Page co-production no?

Wasn't Page too strung out during the early part of production and recording to play a major role

in studio or with the over-all scheme of that album?

[Charles J. White]

His production work on Coverdale Page was excellent as well

[Dallas Knebs]

great point Charles

choice of instrumentation and voicing is unusually effective

[bluecongo]

choice of instrumentation and voicing is unusually effective

Thats a fancy way of saying it kicks ass!

[the chase]

In Through the Outdoor was a Plant, Jones, Page co-production no?

Wasn't Page too strung out during the early part of production and recording to play a major role

in studio or with the over-all scheme of that album?

Jimmy Page received sole Production credit for ITTOD.

John Paul Jones in my opinion deserved at least a Co-Producer credit.

He shared Production with Paul Rodgers, Robert Plant and David Coverdale..

[Charles J. White]

The overarching theme on Zeppelin albums, solo albums, or collaborations with other musicians is that Jimmy never really used outside help. So clearly his production work is superb because his music has for the most part stood the test of time.

[SuperDave]

Jimmy and George Martin (produced The Beatles albums) in my opinion are the two best popular music producers ever. With Jimmy being a musician in the band he produced, I think that gives him and Led Zeppelin an edge over the Beatles, being the best rock band or artist ever. Although. you can't go wrong with either!

[Nutrocker]

Jimmy Page is very underrated when it comes to his production skills. Sure. having great engineers behind the board helped (Eddie Kramer, Keith Harwood, Glyn/Andy Johns etc) but even Page conceded that he liked to switch up his engineers from project to project to keep the overall sound his.

No, Page's productions aren't 'slick' like a Steely Dan album, or as stuffed with effects as The Beatles (though there are moments on the second album and Houses Of The Holy that are pretty effect-laden), but the man clearly has a vision as far as what his music should sound like on record, and was determined to get it. Though I'll never understand how he let the sloppy as hell playing on "Hot Dog" and "Fool In The Rain" pass...IMO "Hot Dog" in particular is a moment where Jimmy could have used somebody who could say, "Uh, Jimmy...maybe you should give that intro/solo another try..." But still, two songs out of how many? Fuck it...Zeppelin wouldn't sound like Zeppelin if it was anybody else in the producer's chair. And Jimmy Page deserves all the credit for that, and rightfully so.

[lightandshade]

Great topic!

I sometimes have trouble articulating to other people why I enjoy LZ albums so much - it's really hard to give a distinct, clear answer. Their live performances obviously take on a whole new dynamic, but a Zeppelin studio album takes you to a unique place as a listener. I can only describe the experience as otherworldly, yet somehow simultaneously intimate. "Over the Hills and Far Away" is a great example of this - IMHO, one of the most beautifully crafted songs ever produced.

As someone who's not so well-versed in the technical aspects of music production, I can only rely on my gut instincts to tell me when something's good... and as a producer, Mr. Page has yet to let me down.

[Nutrocker]

Great topic!

I sometimes have trouble articulating to other people why I enjoy LZ albums so much - it's really hard to give a distinct, clear answer. Their live performances obviously take on a whole new dynamic, but a Zeppelin studio album takes you to a unique place as a listener. I can only describe the experience as otherworldly, yet somehow simultaneously intimate. "Over the Hills and Far Away" is a great example of this - IMHO, one of the most beautifully crafted songs ever produced.

As someone who's not so well-versed in the technical aspects of music production, I can only rely on my gut instincts to tell me when something's good... and as a producer, Mr. Page has yet to let me down.

Like The Beatles and Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin is a total 'album' band. Their records -especially being 'anti single' and all- were all conceived as something to flow...mess with the running order of the tracks, for example, it just sounds wrong...like, you know "The Rain Song" is going to follow "The Song Remains The Same" or "Kashmir" is the next song after "Trampled Under Foot", etc (this was my issue with the 4 and 2 CD box sets Page originally assembled about twenty years ago, shuffling the songs around)- with Zeppelin it's all or nothing...and the thing with the albums is 99.9 % of the songs are good (I can only think of a handful of tracks such as "Hats Off To Roy Harper" or "Hot Dog" that are true Zeppelin "WTF?!" moments and even those can have their charms)...but all that comes down to Zeppelin's songwriting and arranging talent, not necessarily the sound production, which, yer right, is just as much of a part of Zeppelin's musical appeal.

Their records sound good, there really isn't a bad production in the lot- some of the overload on a couple of the LZII tracks or some of the murky, buried vocals mixes on In Through The Out Door- would be the closest you could come to sound production flaws; otherwise Page and his engineers created a trademark sound which has often been imitated but never really duplicated. How many rap/hip hop songs have sampled John Bonham's drums? There's a reason for that, they're some of the best, most 'real' drum sounds ever captured on record, usually done with a minimum of microphones and feeding off the room ambience (sorry, that's sound production talk in pretty layman terms ) Why does Jimmy Page's guitar and JPJ's bass sound so huge? Feeding the instrument through multiple amplifiers and recording a mix of them all, as well as multiple overdubs on Page's part. Plant's vocals (particularly in the later years), all double tracked and mixed with at least a couple of different kinds of slapback echo...you hear this combination of sounds and not only does it occur to you that it sounds good, you immediately recognize the sound as being Led Zeppelin. And as Producer -though I'm sure Plant, Jones and Bonham had their share of suggestions as well- the sound is essentially Jimmy Page's 'vision'...I'd reckon the sound of Led Zeppelin's albums is as much a part of Page's legacy as his guitar playing...especially where Zeppelin fans are concerned.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Nutrocker

[lightandshade]

Absolutely to all of the above. Thanks for responding.