FREE TIBET ! !

[dragster]

The fact that so many states atempted communisum and failed to live up to its ideals does I'd say tell you alot about how effective it is.

That's because it wasn't commuinism, but straight-fwd dirty RIGHT-WING FASCISM.....when will they ever learn??! :)

[The Rover]

and yeah, only bottled water for me

for the next few weeks.. for sure!!

Maybe you could also take some vintage bottles of "Freedom", for the Tibetans.

[Del Zeppnile]

March 25, 2008

Why Do Palestinians Get Much More Attention than Tibetans?

By Dennis Prager

The long-suffering Tibetans have been in the news. This happens perhaps once or twice a decade. In a more moral world, however, public opinion would be far more preoccupied with Tibetans than with Palestinians, would be as harsh on China as it is on Israel, and would be as fawning on Israel as it now is on China.

But, alas, the world is, as it has always been, a largely mean-spirited and morally insensitive place, where might is far more highly regarded than right.

Consider the facts: Tibet, at least 1,400 years old, is one of the world's oldest nations, has its own language, its own religion and even its own ethnicity. Over 1 million of its people have been killed by the Chinese, its culture has been systematically obliterated, 6,000 of its 6,200 monasteries have been looted and destroyed, and most of its monks have been tortured, murdered or exiled.

Palestinians have none of these characteristics. There has never been a Palestinian country, never been a Palestinian language, never been a Palestinian ethnicity, never been a Palestinian religion in any way distinct from Islam elsewhere. Indeed, "Palestinian" had always meant any individual living in the geographic area called Palestine. For most of the first half of the 20th century, "Palestinian" and "Palestine" almost always referred to the Jews of Palestine. The United Jewish Appeal, the worldwide Jewish charity that provided the nascent Jewish state with much of its money, was actually known as the United Palestine Appeal. Compared to Tibetans, few Palestinians have been killed, its culture has not been destroyed nor its mosques looted or plundered, and Palestinians have received billions of dollars from the international community. Unlike the dying Tibetan nation, there are far more Palestinians today than when Israel was created.

None of this means that a distinct Palestinian national identity does not now exist. Since Israel's creation such an identity has arisen and does indeed exist. Nor does any of this deny that many Palestinians suffered as a result of the creation of the third Jewish state in the area, known -- since the Romans renamed Judea -- as "Palestine."

But it does mean that of all the causes the world could have adopted, the Palestinians' deserved to be near the bottom and the Tibetans' near the top. This is especially so since the Palestinians could have had a state of their own from 1947 on, and they have caused great suffering in the world, while the far more persecuted Tibetans have been characterized by a morally rigorous doctrine of nonviolence.

So, the question is, why? Why have the Palestinians received such undeserved attention and support, and the far more aggrieved and persecuted and moral Tibetans given virtually no support or attention?

The first reason is terror. Some time ago, the Palestinian leadership decided, with the overwhelming support of the Palestinian people, that murdering as many innocent people -- first Jews, and then anyone else -- was the fastest way to garner world attention. They were right. On the other hand, as The Economist notes in its March 28, 2008 issue, "Tibetan nationalists have hardly ever resorted to terrorist tactics..." It is interesting to speculate how the world would have reacted had Tibetans hijacked international flights, slaughtered Chinese citizens in Chinese restaurants and temples, on Chinese buses and trains, and massacred Chinese schoolchildren.

The second reason is oil and support from powerful fellow Arabs. The Palestinians have rich friends who control the world's most needed commodity, oil. The Palestinians have the unqualified support of all Middle Eastern oil-producing nations and the support of the Muslim world beyond the Middle East. The Tibetans are poor and have the support of no nations, let alone oil-producing ones.

The third reason is Israel. To deny that pro-Palestinian activism in the world is sometimes related to hostility toward Jews is to deny the obvious. It is not possible that the unearned preoccupation with the Palestinians is unrelated to the fact that their enemy is the one Jewish state in the world. Israel's Jewishness is a major part of the Muslim world's hatred of Israel. It is also part of Europe's hostility toward Israel: Portraying Israel as oppressors assuages some of Europe's guilt about the Holocaust -- "see, the Jews act no better than we did." Hence the ubiquitous comparisons of Israel to Nazis.

A fourth reason is China. If Tibet had been crushed by a white European nation, the Tibetans would have elicited far more sympathy. But, alas, their near-genocidal oppressor is not white. And the world does not take mass murder committed by non-whites nearly as seriously as it takes anything done by Westerners against non-Westerners. Furthermore, China is far more powerful and frightening than Israel. Israel has a great army and nuclear weapons, but it is pro-West, it is a free and democratic society, and it has seven million people in a piece of land as small as Belize. China has nuclear weapons, has a trillion U.S. dollars, an increasingly mighty army and navy, is neither free nor democratic, is anti-Western, and has 1.2 billion people in a country that dominates the Asian continent.

A fifth reason is the world's Left. As a general rule, the Left demonizes Israel and has loved China since it became Communist in 1948. And given the power of the Left in the world's media, in the political life of so many nations, and in the universities and the arts, it is no wonder vicious China has been idolized and humane Israel demonized.

The sixth reason is the United Nations, where Israel has been condemned in more General Assembly and Security Council resolutions than any other country in the world. At the same time, the UN has voted China onto its Security Council and has never condemned it. China's sponsoring of Sudan and its genocidal acts against its non-Arab black population, as in Darfur, goes largely unremarked on at the UN, let alone condemned, just as is the case with its cultural genocide, ethnic cleansing and military occupation of Tibet.

The seventh reason is television news, the primary source of news for much of mankind. Aside from its leftist tilt, television news reports only what it can video. And almost no country is televised as much as Israel, while video reports in Tibet are forbidden, as they are almost anywhere in China except where strictly monitored by the Chinese authorities. No video, no TV news. And no TV, no concern. So while grieving Palestinians and the accidental killings of Palestinians during morally necessary Israeli retaliations against terrorists are routinely televised, the slaughter of over a million Tibetans and the extinguishing of Tibetan Buddhism and culture are non-events as far as television news is concerned.

The world is unfair, unjust and morally twisted. And rarely more so than in its support for the Palestinians -- no matter how many innocents they target for murder and no matter how much Nazi-like anti-Semitism permeates their media -- and its neglect of the cruelly treated, humane Tibetans.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...get_much_m.html

[Gainsbarre]

March 25, 2008

Why Do Palestinians Get Much More Attention than Tibetans?

By Dennis Prager

The seventh reason is television news, the primary source of news for much of mankind. Aside from its leftist tilt, television news reports only what it can video.

Oh man...Yeah because FOX news, America's most-watched news channel has a leftist tilt...

That article was a very typical, right-wing American Republican diatribe...

You know there's a lot of questions about why some things got attention and others didn't, For Example:

America strongly protested the Tianenmen Square massacre, but said virtually nothing about the 1992 massacre in Bangkok...

America condemned Serbia, but said absolutely nothing about the Dili massacre in Indonesia...

In fact speaking of Indonesia, America protests over Chinese control over Tibet, yet virtually handed Timor and West Papua to Indonesia on silver plate...and when Timor began fighting for its independence (again, as it had originally been granted its Independence by the Dutch before the Indonesians invaded...) America didn't want to know about it...

Maybe the reason the Palestinians are always in the news is because the USA is always, without fail, right behind Israel, and you know how the news media love to follow the Big Stars...in this case the stars and stripes...

[Del Zeppnile]

Maybe the reason the Palestinians are always in the news is because the USA is always, without fail, right behind Israel, and you know how the news media love to follow the Big Stars...in this case the stars and stripes...

That's right we back Israel. And why not? Israel is not the ones mudering innocent people on a daily basis. In fact, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in dealing with the so called 'palestinans.' If any other western nation had been forced to endure that much violence, they probably would have bombed their attackers into complete oblivion and been perfectly justified.

[The Rover]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/29/germany.olympicgames2008

Saturday March 29 2008

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, yesterday became the first world leader to decide not to attend the Olympics in Beijing.

As pressure built for concerted western protests to China over the crackdown in Tibet, EU leaders prepared to discuss the crisis for the first time today, amid a rift over whether to boycott the Olympics.

The disclosure that Germany is to stay away from the games' opening ceremonies in August could encourage President Nicolas Sarkozy of France to join in a gesture of defiance and complicate Gordon Brown's determination to attend the Olympics.

Donald Tusk, Poland's prime minister, became the first EU head of government to announce a boycott on Thursday and he was promptly joined by President Václav Klaus of the Czech Republic, who had previously promised to travel to Beijing.

"The presence of politicians at the inauguration of the Olympics seems inappropriate," Tusk said. "I do not intend to take part."

Frank-Walter Steinmeier, Germany's foreign minister, confirmed that Merkel was staying away. He added that neither he nor Wolfgang Schäuble, the interior minister responsible for sport, would attend the opening ceremony.

Hans-Gert Pöttering, the politician from Merkel's Christian Democratic party who chairs the European parliament, encouraged talk of an Olympic boycott this week and invited the Dalai Lama to address the chamber in Strasbourg, while another senior German Christian Democrat, Ruprecht Polenz, said a boycott should remain on the table.

"I cannot imagine German politicians attending the opening or closing ceremonies [if the Tibetan crackdown continued]," he said. Merkel enraged the Chinese leadership a few months ago by receiving the Dalai Lama in Berlin for private talks.

Brown is to meet the Tibetan spiritual leader when he visits Britain in May, but is determined to be in Beijing. "We are fully engaged in supporting the Olympics," said David Miliband, the foreign secretary. "We want to see it as a success, and I think it's right that the prime minister represents us."

While announcing that German leaders were staying away from Beijing, Steinmeier denied they were boycotting or staging a political protest against the Chinese military and police campaign in Tibet and surrounding areas.

While expressing scepticism about a complete boycott, he did not rule one out. "This is not the right moment to talk about a boycott ... We should watch how the Chinese government deals with the situation in the next weeks and months."

If Merkel and others do not attend the opening ceremony, it is likely to reinforce a growing sense in China that the Olympics is being used to vilify the host.

China had hoped to use the games to highlight its economic development and growing openness. But it is increasingly proving an opportunity for critics to bash China's one-party political system, human rights abuses, treatment of minorities and tightly controlled media.

The Tibet crisis has been pushed on to the agenda of a meeting of European foreign ministers in Slovenia, with the French, who will be presiding over the EU during the Olympics, calling for a team of European officials to be dispatched to China on a fact-finding mission.

British and US diplomats were among a group of outside officials allowed to travel yesterday to Lhasa, the Tibetan capital, for the first time since the crisis erupted a fortnight ago.

The EU foreign ministers are to discuss the China quandary at lunch in Slovenia today, with calls being made for a common European position.

"We don't support a boycott and don't intend to boycott the opening of the games," a British Foreign Office spokesman said. "None of the 27 [EU states] are calling for a boycott yet."

The French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, has described the boycott proposal as "interesting", while Sarkozy this week hedged his bets and said his attendance depended on China's conduct.

[bouncing~ship]

Why dosn't the New York Philharmonic Orchestra just barge in and settle it? lol

It seemed to have worked a bit in north Korea.

man ive seen some videos of some protester being beaten and let me tell you...It ain't a pretty site.

[Gainsbarre]

That's right we back Israel. And why not? Israel is not the ones mudering innocent people on a daily basis. In fact, Israel has shown a lot of restraint in dealing with the so called 'palestinans.' If any other western nation had been forced to endure that much violence, they probably would have bombed their attackers into complete oblivion and been perfectly justified.

No, that's not why you back Israel, Please Del....

You back Israel because you have a lot of Jews in your country, and some of them hold very influential positions and have a bit of money...

[zepyep]

Hi all,

No, that's not why you back Israel, Please Del....

You back Israel because you have a lot of Jews in your country, and some of them hold very influential positions and have a bit of money...

Really? Thanks for enlightening me,....

KB

[Gainsbarre]

Hi all,

Really? Thanks for enlightening me,....

KB

Well, I'm glad yousee why...

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Well, I'm glad yousee why...

No I do not (sarcasm mode off)

KB

[Gainsbarre]

Hi all,

No I do not (sarcasm mode off)

KB

*sigh* this isn't a Jewish conspiracy theory...

It's a simple fact. There is a large Jewish diaspora in the USA which is quite economically sound as it played a large role in establishing a lot of American economic institutions in the early days.

The USA is firmly behind Israel because US Politicians do not wish to alienate the Jewish vote.

Now feel free to have a go at me about that, but I have Jewish American friends who will tell you the same thing.

[zepyep]

hi all,

*sigh* this isn't a Jewish conspiracy theory...

Did I say that?

It's a simple fact. There is a large Jewish diaspora in the USA which is quite economically sound as it played a large role in establishing a lot of American economic institutions in the early days.

The USA is firmly behind Israel because US Politicians do not wish to alienate the Jewish vote.

Now feel free to have a go at me about that, but I have Jewish American friends who will tell you the same thing.

That is the sole reason?

KB

[wanna be drummer]

*sigh* this isn't a Jewish conspiracy theory...

It's a simple fact. There is a large Jewish diaspora in the USA which is quite economically sound as it played a large role in establishing a lot of American economic institutions in the early days.

The USA is firmly behind Israel because US Politicians do not wish to alienate the Jewish vote.

Now feel free to have a go at me about that, but I have Jewish American friends who will tell you the same thing.

Dearborn Michigan has an enormous Muslim population.

Why don't I ever hear anti-Semitic rants from them? Surely it's not because they don't want to alienate the so-called "large Jewish diaspora" found in this country

[Gainsbarre]

Dearborn Michigan has an enormous Muslim population.

Why don't I ever hear anti-Semitic rants from them? Surely it's not because they don't want to alienate the so-called "large Jewish diaspora" found in this country

what has that got to do with anything??

Okay well done, Muslims live in Dearborn Michigan, congratulations, I'm happy for you. I don't know why they do or do not have anti-semitic rants. Although how you would know if they do or don't is beyond me but anyway

I don't really see what that has to do with anything I was talking about.

I mean does the Dearborn Michican Muslim community have a large political party they're trying to get into power in Washington?

I like the way you put Jewish diaspora in inverted commas. You probably don't know what a diaspora is, but anyway here's a wiki link for you that you can read and help get you up to date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora

In the USA you got 5.4 million Jews and 1.2 million muslims.

[Del Zeppnile]

No, that's not why you back Israel, Please Del....

You back Israel because you have a lot of Jews in your country, and some of them hold very influential positions and have a bit of money...

Okay Minister Farakhan if you say so

I say we back Israel because they are the only democracy in the region; because they provide the most human rights to their citizens and because we share common values, The same reasons why we backed Western Europe over Eastern Europe during the cold war.

It's really not the conspiracy theory you are trying to paint it to be.

For me personally it comes down to which nation I could go to and visit without being kidnapped and murdererd just because I am an American.

[zepyep]

March 31, 1959

Dalai Lama begins exile

The Dalai Lama, fleeing the Chinese suppression of a national uprising in Tibet, crosses the border into India, where he is granted political asylum.

Born in Taktser, China, as Tensin Gyatso, he was designated the 14th Dalai Lama in 1940, a position that eventually made him the religious and political leader of Tibet. At the beginning of the 20th century, Tibet increasingly came under Chinese control, and in 1950 communist China invaded the country. One year later, a Tibetan-Chinese agreement was signed in which the nation became a "national autonomous region" of China, supposedly under the traditional rule of the Dalai Lama but actually under the control of a Chinese communist commission. The highly religious people of Tibet, who practice a unique form of Buddhism, suffered under communist China's anti-religious legislation.

After years of scattered protests, a full-scale revolt broke out in March 1959, and the Dalai Lama was forced to flee as the uprising was crushed by Chinese troops. On March 31, 1969, he began a permanent exile in India, settling at Dharamsala in Punjab, where he established a democratically based shadow Tibetan government. Back in Tibet, the Chinese adopted brutal repressive measures against the Tibetans, provoking charges from the Dalai Lama of genocide. With the beginning of the Cultural Revolution in China, the Chinese suppression of Tibetan Buddhism escalated, and practice of the religion was banned and thousands of monasteries were destroyed.

Although the ban was lifted in 1976, protests in Tibet continued, and the exiled Dalai Lama won widespread international support for the Tibetan independence movement. In 1989, he was awarded the Nobel Prize for Peace in recognition of his nonviolent campaign to end the Chinese domination of Tibet.

[wanna be drummer]

what has that got to do with anything??

Okay well done, Muslims live in Dearborn Michigan, congratulations, I'm happy for you. I don't know why they do or do not have anti-semitic rants. Although how you would know if they do or don't is beyond me but anyway

I don't really see what that has to do with anything I was talking about.

I mean does the Dearborn Michican Muslim community have a large political party they're trying to get into power in Washington?

I like the way you put Jewish diaspora in inverted commas. You probably don't know what a diaspora is, but anyway here's a wiki link for you that you can read and help get you up to date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora

In the USA you got 5.4 million Jews and 1.2 million muslims.

I understand what a diaspora is very well thanks. I used it in quotations because I was quoting you.

My point was, if its the Jewish people who are behind the pro-Israel policies of the US, why am I not hearing pro-Palestinian talk coming from Muslims?

Why so angry?

[Gainsbarre]

Okay Minister Farakhan if you say so

I say we back Israel because they are the only democracy in the region; because they provide the most human rights to their citizens and because we share common values, The same reasons why we backed Western Europe over Eastern Europe during the cold war.

It's really not the conspiracy theory you are trying to paint it to be.

For me personally it comes down to which nation I could go to and visit without being kidnapped and murdererd just because I am an American.

haha

oh dear...

You really don't know much about US involvement in Global politics, do you Del?

You say that the USA backs Israel because its the only democracy in the area...excuse me while I laugh heartily at your naive comment....

Del have you ever heard the expression "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard"? It's an expression used to explain the US Government's policy of supporting non-democratic dictatorships that are US allies...It comes from when Harry S Truman was asked why he supported Anastasio Somoza of Nicuragua since he was considered to be a bastard. Truman replied "Sure, he's a bastard, but he's our bastard".

And there's a long list of them too:

South Korea: a dictatorship til 1960, then a military dictatorship til the late 1980's, during which the Gwangju massacre happened, which the USA did not say an awful lot about...Political opponents were thrown out of Helicopters...A staunch US ally...

Taiwan: a one-party state under the dictatorship of Chiang Kai-shek. He died in 1975, but the dictatorship continued. Political opponents were thrown into prison. Taiwan did not have its first free presidential elections until 1996...another staunch US ally...

Indonesia: In 1965, the USA supported General Suharto's coup against President Sukarno. Suharto then went on a bloody oppression of the Indonesian people, killing and imprisoning hundreds of thousands of people under the guise of 'wiping out Communists'. Many of them were just Sukarno supporters. Suharto remained dictator til 1998...Suharto was yet another staunch US ally...oh and it was during Suharto's reign that the Dili Massacre occured, 250 East Timorese shot dead by Indonesian troops...the USA's rection? Well they considered cutting their funding of training Indonesian military, but arms sales between the two countries carried on as usual...

Singapore: Still a dictatorship, Singapore has been ruled by the People's Action Party since 1959. The People's Action Party use various methods to prevent opposition parties from making any gains, such as imprisonment, trumped up charges, control of the media, the withholding of apartments to blackmail voters...Yet another US ally...

Malaysia: Like Singapore, a current dictatorship ruled by the United Malays National Organisation since 1957, and organised in a similar way to Singapore. As the United Malays National Organisation controls all the media in Malaysia, there is little chance of anything other than the Government message getting through. Malaysian dictator Dr Mahatir Mohamad fell-out politically with his deputy Prime Minister, Anway Ibrahim. Mohamad sent Ibrahim to prison on Sodomy charges...

Thailand: a very staunch US ally and also many years of Military Dictatorship in between years of civilian dictatorship, since 1932 in fact. In 1992, students in Bangkok held pro-democracy marches, and the Thai military shot them dead in the streets, just like in Tianenmen in China. 750 students were killed. The difference between the Thai massacre and the Tianenmen massacre? The USA condemned China, but hardly uttered a fucking word about Thailand...

Zaire: Who can forget the dictator of Zaire for 32 years, Mobutu Sese Seko? A great great friend of the USA, the USA gave him billions of dollars in aid which he stuck in his own bank accounts, bankrupted his country, just about threw everybody in prison, before finally escaping to the French Riviera in 1997, after he was toppled in a coup. One of the USA's finest moments, yes?

Chile: Yes, this old Chestnut, the American-encouraged, CIA-supported Dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet...Pinochet and his cronies were very good at torture, they practiced on thousands of people, many of them are still missing to this day...But he was another good friend of the USA, and was in power from 1974 til 1990...but unfortunately he got arrested in Britain in 1998, on the asking of the Spanish Police, who wanted him on charges of systematic torture, murder, illegal detention, and forced disappearances...They're rather nasty charges to have to answer, especially when you're a friend of the USA, the country that stands for freedom, democracy, liberty!

Uzbekistan: Well, even the US State Department admits that Uzbekistan is a nasty dictatorship with little concern for human rights abuses, especially after the Andijan massacre...But the USA was happy to overlook all that when it needed air bases near Afghanistan. Still the USA may not feel comfortable about being in bed with Uzbekistan, but if the USA is really all about freedom and democracy, then why isn't ol' Bushy saying much about it?

I'm not painting any conspiracy theory, it's just very plain and simple to see:

The USA backs freedom and democracy when it's of stategic value. But when a dictatorship is of strategic value (such as Pakistan) the USA keeps its mouth closed...That's all it is Del. None of this fancy romantic bullshit, it's all about power and politics...

And as the largest Jewish population outside of Israel resides in the USA, American politicians and senators like to make sure that they don't do anything to offend the Jewish vote.

There's no Jewish conspiracy or any secret plan or any of that shit...

It simply comes down to American politicians worried about their jobs, and making sure they keep the Jewish community, which is well represented politically and financially in Washington, happy...

I would've thought Del, at 47 years old, you might be a little more wise to the ways of the world...

[Del Zeppnile]

haha

oh dear...

You really don't know much about US involvement in Global politics, do you Del?

You say that the USA backs Israel because its the only democracy in the area...excuse me while I laugh heartily at your naive comment....

Del have you ever heard the expression "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard"? It's an expression that was coined in the 1970's, I believe, to explain the US Government's policy of supporting non-democratic Dictatorships that were US allies...

And there's a long list of them too...

I've never said that we don't make some choices... always have. We helped Stalin and Mao too in their fights with Germany and Japan. But as I said, Israel IS our friend in that region. You think we are going to side with Syria or the Palestinians (so-called palestinians)? Why would we do that? Obviously you think Israel is worse than the others by your logic.

Typical anti-Semite point of view. Although I'm sure you are encapable of even recognizing it.

And as the largest Jewish population outside of Israel resides in the USA, American politicians and senators like to make sure that they don't do anything to offend the Jewish vote.

There's no Jewish conspiracy or any secret plan or any of that shit...

It simply comes down to American politicians worried about their jobs, and making sure they keep the Jewish community, which is well represented politically and financially in Washington, happy...

I would've thought Del, at 47 years old, you might be a little more wise to the ways of the world...

Israel has quite a lot of support in the United States, it always has. And not because of the demographics of the Jewish voters. First of all, the vast majority of Jewish voters in this country belong to the Democrat Party (mainly liberal) and yet still the largest amount of support outside of the Jewish community in this country comes from members of the Republican Party (mainly conservative) and definatly not Jewish.

So explain that one why don't you?

[Gainsbarre]

I've never said that we don't make some choices... always have. We helped Stalin and Mao too in their fights with Germany and Japan. But as I said, Israel IS our friend in that region. You think we are going to side with Syria or the Palestinians (so-called palestinians)? Why would we do that? Obviously you think Israel is worse than the others by your logic.

Typical anti-Semite point of view. Although I'm sure you are encapable of even recognizing it.

You see that's your little trick...You're starting to label me as anti-semitic, so that any discussion I participate in that relates to Jewish people will be largely wiped off as being anti-semitic...

But as I said in the other thread, which you ignored, I have two very close Jewish American friends who completely agree with me on this topic. In fact we came to this conclusion ourselves through discussion, so shove that up your Bill O'Reilly. You're a lot like Bill O'Reilly actually. You and he use childish, smug tricks to win arguments because you can't win them on intelligence.

You always like to put words in my mouth and jump to conclusions that I never said: "Obviously you think Israel is worse than the others by your logic."

Did I say that Del? No I didn't...

I think I suddenly feel great pity for you. Maybe my comment about being 47 and not wise to the world stung you a bit, or hurt your feelings. It must be, because you're going out of your way now to put labels on me.

You know what they say, you can't believe everything you read in the papers, or on Fox news.

[Electrophile]

Fox News is the cable news equivalent to a litter box full of cat turds.

[Del Zeppnile]

You see that's your little trick...You're starting to label me as anti-semitic, so that any discussion I participate in that relates to Jewish people will be largely wiped off as being anti-semitic...

But as I said in the other thread, which you ignored, I have two very close Jewish American friends who completely agree with me on this topic. In fact we came to this conclusion ourselves through discussion, so shove that up your Bill O'Reilly. You're a lot like Bill O'Reilly actually. You and he use childish, smug tricks to win arguments because you can't win them on intelligence.

Only two "very close Jewish friends" -- that almost sounds too cliche to not laugh at. It almost sounds like, "I have some black friends... blah, blah...." Trust me, I've lived long enough to know that when someone says something like " I have this friend or that" that what I am about to hear next is the WEAKEST arguement ever.

I'm not going to list all of 'my Jewish friends', but I will say that I have had a very close relationship with MANY JEWISH PEOPLE (not just the two who would waste their time with someone who thinks the United States policies are controlled by the Jewish community), and I am a true friend to Jews and to Israel. I was once even told that I would be "declared rightous" in the next life by a very well known Rabbi in Israel for my continued support of his people. Bottom line: you are just blowing smoke. I would love to hear you voice your oppinions about the United States and our policy of support for Israel to the Jews I know.

Btw, I don't know why you would even bring up Bill O'Reilly to me. I can't stand that pontificating non-conservative kook.

Shows what you know!

You always like to put words in my mouth and jump to conclusions that I never said: "Obviously you think Israel is worse than the others by your logic."

Did I say that Del? No I didn't...

I think I suddenly feel great pity for you. Maybe my comment about being 47 and not wise to the world stung you a bit, or hurt your feelings. It must be, because you're going out of your way now to put labels on me.

You know what they say, you can't believe everything you read in the papers, or on Fox news.

Nice try. Now go tell your "two very close Jewish-American friends."

[Nathan]

We supported the creation of Israel back when America was still largely anti-semetic.

So doesn't that kinda kill your argument, Gainesbarre? Oh... yeah... and the argument of your "2 Jewish friends"?

BTW... I'm Jewish... and I say you're wrong.

[Gainsbarre]

I was once even told that I would be "declared rightous" in the next life by a very well known Rabbi in Israel for my continued support of his people.

WOW

hahaha

Saint Del, oops sorry, wrong religion...

So you didn't score the Messiah then? You could've been the next Moses or Abraham....

Gosh, Del, I didn't realise I was talking to a nearly religious Icon...

A pity though your charity doesn't extend to people outside the Jewish religion...although your God-like demeanour does...