FREE TIBET ! !

[Gainsbarre]

We supported the creation of Israel back when America was still largely anti-semetic.

So doesn't that kinda kill your argument, Gainesbarre? Oh... yeah... and the argument of your "2 Jewish friends"?

BTW... I'm Jewish... and I say you're wrong.

No it doesn't kill my argument at all

And yes, you're more than welcome to be Jewish and say I'm wrong, the point I was making is that if I say the US supports Israel because it has a large Jewish population, that's NOT an example of anti-semitism...

what it IS an example of is people who are unable to challange my argument on an intellectual basis, so they resort to name-calling as a way to win the argument.

My Jewish friends were mentioned to show that I am not anti-semitic, and, although you would not have realised this, but my user name on the Led Zep forum is Gainsbarre, which is a pseudonym for the French singer that I love and adore, Serge Gainsbourg who also happened to be Jewish or Serge Ginsburg as his real name was.

[Nathan]

No it doesn't kill my argument at all

And yes, you're more than welcome to be Jewish and say I'm wrong, the point I was making is that if I say the US supports Israel because it has a large Jewish population, that's NOT an example of anti-semitism...

what it IS an example of is people who are unable to challange my argument on an intellectual basis, so they resort to name-calling as a way to win the argument.

My Jewish friends were mentioned to show that I am not anti-semitic, and, although you would not have realised this, but my user name on the Led Zep forum is Gainsbarre, which is a pseudonym for the French singer that I love and adore, Serge Gainsbourg who also happened to be Jewish or Serge Ginsburg as his real name was.

I was NOT accusing you of being an anti-semite. If you got as much out of my post (which I can see why you might have), I apologize. Although I agree completely with Del, I do not think you are being anti-semetic.

However, the whole "close Jewish friends" thing is a cliche response to that kind of accusation, hence why the response from myself and Del. I don't think either of us are saying that you don't have close Jewish friends. You probably do. But it was just the wrong statement at the wrong time, is all.

On Israel, however... believe it or not, Jews still do not have a say in the Government. Yes, we may own Hollywood () and all, but the government, for the most part, is made up of white Christian males. Obviously, that isn't the entire government, as people like Barack Obama, Joseph Leiberman, and Condoliza Rice prove. But it is the majority.

Obviously, the Government wants our support, as much as it wants the support of the rest of the people it represents (something our current government does not have... after all, Congress's approval rating is lower then Bush's... and that's just sad). Say you may, in fact, be partially correct. However, we have always supported Israel, and not JUST because of the amount of Jews in America. We supported Israel when America (including the government) was still anti-Semetic (which is significant and does work against your argument... that we supported Israel when we hated Jews), and it hasn't changed.

And you have to understand that Christians support Israel just as much as Jews do because it is also the Christian Holy Land. After all, if you believe the New Testament (*bites tongue*), Jesus was born, raised, preached, and died in Israel.

[wanna be drummer]

I think Gainesbarre realizes the US gov. isn't run by mostly Jews Nathan

[Nathan]

I think Gainesbarre realizes the US gov. isn't run by mostly Jews Nathan

Yeah, because that's what I said and all...

Oh wait... that's not what I said...

Obviously, the Government wants our support, as much as it wants the support of the rest of the people it represents (something our current government does not have... after all, Congress's approval rating is lower then Bush's... and that's just sad). Say you may, in fact, be partially correct. However, we have always supported Israel, and not JUST because of the amount of Jews in America. We supported Israel when America (including the government) was still anti-Semetic (which is significant and does work against your argument... that we supported Israel when we hated Jews), and it hasn't changed.

And you have to understand that Christians support Israel just as much as Jews do because it is also the Christian Holy Land. After all, if you believe the New Testament (*bites tongue*), Jesus was born, raised, preached, and died in Israel.

Hmm... the government wanting to keep the support of the large amount of Jews in America...

Nothing about Jews ruling the Government...

Really, though. Thanks for misreading. I LOVE it when people do that...

(Where's that pet peeves thread?...)

[wanna be drummer]

Why the sarcasm?

You said, and I quote, "Yes, we may own Hollywood ( ) and all, but the government, for the most part, is made up of white Christian males."

Thats not really news to him I'm sure. That was my point, end of story. I apologize if that rubbed you the wrong way?

[Nathan]

Why the sarcasm?

You said, and I quote, "Yes, we may own Hollywood ( ) and all, but the government, for the most part, is made up of white Christian males."

Thats not really news to him I'm sure. That was my point, end of story. I apologize if that rubbed you the wrong way?

I guess I misunderstood you, then. I thought you meant that I was trying to say Jews did not rule the Government, not so much that they held majority seats.

The Hollywood thing was just a rub, is all.

[wanna be drummer]

I guess I misunderstood you, then. I thought you meant that I was trying to say Jews did not rule the Government, not so much that they held majority seats.

The Hollywood thing was just a rub, is all.

I understood you're post, just makin a Captain Obvious moment.

Anywho, should we choose to ally ourselves with the Palestinians, or just ignore the conflict altogether Gainesbarre?

[StringBender]

I think Gainesbarre realizes the US gov. isn't run by mostly Jews Nathan

Hey, wannabe: read between the lines here buddy....and it doesn't even require much of that:

*sigh* this isn't a Jewish conspiracy theory...

It's a simple fact. There is a large Jewish diaspora in the USA which is quite economically sound as it played a large role in establishing a lot of American economic institutions in the early days.

The USA is firmly behind Israel because US Politicians do not wish to alienate the Jewish vote.

Now feel free to have a go at me about that, but I have Jewish American friends who will tell you the same thing.

gainesbarre is simply saying that the Jewish population here has the US government by the nuts, simply pulling the puppet strings, therefore "run by mostly Jews" as you said.

Listen, gainesbarre is another blatant anti-Semite who blames the Jewish people for all of the worlds ills (just like our long lost board member "Tony") so I'll warn you upfront, you're wasting your time.

An anti-Semite is just like any other racist bigot. You would have just as much luck converting a KKK member.

[The Rover]

Attorney calls for President Bush to boycott the Olympics

3/31/2008 8:00:00 AM

Attorney John Whitehead believes the rampant greed of large corporations has turned the Olympic Games into a moneymaking enterprise, making it difficult for human-rights activists to call attention to the continued persecution and abuses in the communist Chinese dictatorship.

Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, says that millions of dollars have already been spent by various companies for the right to sponsor the Beijing Olympics this August. Some of the contributing corporations include Adidas, Anheuser-Busch, Coca-Cola, McDonald's, and Microsoft.

The constitutional attorney says the latest tensions in Tibet illustrate that pouring capitalism into the communist dictatorship has not helped reduce the human-rights violations in that country. "The argument I always heard was that the more [the U.S.] interacted with China, the more they would become like America and revere freedom," he contends. "[but] the opposite has happened. In fact, China is not getting better; they're getting worse."

Whitehead believes President Bush needs to take a strong moral stand and boycott the Olympics, but he does not believe that will happen "because the world is run by greed."

"What we need to do is urge our president to come out and make a moral statement. Evangelicals put him in office, and it's time for him to live up to his professed faith," he argues. "We should not be holding the Olympics in a country like [China]. If we are, at least our president should come out and give a clear voice against it."

Other human-rights activists believe the president should not even attend the high-profile opening ceremonies, which would send an even stronger message to the regime.

[wanna be drummer]

Hey, wannabe: read between the lines here buddy....and it doesn't even require much of that:

gainesbarre is simply saying that the Jewish population here has the US government by the nuts, simply pulling the puppet strings, therefore "run by mostly Jews" as you said.

Listen, gainesbarre is another blatant anti-Semite who blames the Jewish people for all of the worlds ills (just like our long lost board member "Tony") so I'll warn you upfront, you're wasting your time.

An anti-Semite is just like any other racist bigot. You would have just as much luck converting a KKK member.

I'm just throwing out questions String, not really in the mood for full-out arguments today. School right after Spring Break kinda has me down. But yes, I see what you're gettin at.

[Gainsbarre]

Listen, gainesbarre is another blatant anti-Semite who blames the Jewish people for all of the worlds ills (just like our long lost board member "Tony") so I'll warn you upfront, you're wasting your time.

An anti-Semite is just like any other racist bigot. You would have just as much luck converting a KKK member.

"Antisemitism (alternatively spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism, also known as judeophobia) is prejudice and hostility toward Jews as a religious, racial, or ethnic group."

Go on, show me exactly how I've been Anti-semitic...

Show me where I've said anything that prejudices Jews or shows hostility towards Jewish people...

[Gainsbarre]

A quote from Mitchell Bard, Executive Director of the nonprofit American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE):

"Jews have the highest percentage voter turnout of any ethnic group...roughly 89 percent live in twelve key electoral college states...[which alone] are worth enough electoral votes to elect the president. If you add the non-Jews shown by opinion polls to be as pro-Israel as Jews, it is clear Israel has the support of one of the largest veto groups in the country."

With regards to US Congressmen, Bard writes that "there are no benefits to candidates taking an openly anti-Israel stance and considerable costs in both loss of campaign contributions and votes from Jews and non-Jews alike."

Bard also writes:

"Political campaign contributions are also considered an important means of influence; typically, Jews have been major benefactors. It is difficult to assess the impact of campaign giving on legislative outcomes, particularly with regard to Israel-related issues, where support or opposition may be a consequence of non-monetary factors. In addition, one does not know if a candidate is pro-Israel because of receiving a contribution, or receives a donation as a result of taking a position in support of Israel. In the past, Jewish contributions were less structured and targeted than other interest groups, but this has changed dramatically as Israel-related political action committees (PACs) have proliferated."

Former US President Jimmy Carter wrote:

"The many controversial issues concerning Palestine and the path to peace for Israel are intensely debated among Israelis and throughout other nations — but not in the United States. For the last 30 years, I have witnessed and experienced the severe restraints on any free and balanced discussion of the facts. This reluctance to criticize any policies of the Israeli government is because of the extraordinary lobbying efforts of the American-Israel Political Action Committee and the absence of any significant contrary voices. [...] What is even more difficult to comprehend is why the editorial pages of the major newspapers and magazines in the United States exercise similar self-restraint, quite contrary to private assessments expressed quite forcefully by their correspondents in the Holy Land."

Jewish-American billionaire George Soros:

"I do believe that attitudes toward Israel are influenced by Israel's policies, and attitudes toward the Jewish community are influenced by the pro-Israel lobby's success in suppressing divergent views."

Andrew Stephen in The New Statesman wrote:

"...even to mention the existence of the Israel lobby is to risk being labelled anti-Semitic"

It was speculated that US Senator Chuck Percy was voted out of office because he supported selling military aircraft to Saudi Arabia.

This speculation was given support by Tom Dine, the former Executive Director of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (considered to be a powerful Jewish lobby group). Tom Dine said: "All the Jews in America, from coast to coast, gathered to oust Percy. And the American politicians - those who hold public positions now, and those who aspire - got the message."

So there you go, some words and comments from other people, not from me, from a former President and people connected with the American Jewish community....

[Del Zeppnile]

gainesbarre is simply saying that the Jewish population here has the US government by the nuts, simply pulling the puppet strings, therefore "run by mostly Jews" as you said.

Listen, gainesbarre is another blatant anti-Semite who blames the Jewish people for all of the worlds ills (just like our long lost board member "Tony") so I'll warn you upfront, you're wasting your time.

An anti-Semite is just like any other racist bigot. You would have just as much luck converting a KKK member.

I agree Stringman. Gainsbarre has already demonstrated a complete bias against the United States and it was only a matter of time that he showed his true colors in regard to Israel and Jewish Americans. I really don't know how to interpret a comment like this one, other than to call it anti-semitism:

No, that's not why you back Israel, Please Del....

You back Israel because you have a lot of Jews in your country, and some of them hold very influential positions and have a bit of money...

We hear statements like this all the time. Mostly coming from the rabid Jew haters like Minister Farakhan and a few others. To blame the Jews on all the problems in the middle east and in the world is nothing new to us. And also a sad reality in our Christian history as well. But it is a fallacy of reasoning to assume that the minority of Jews in the United States have that much power of our government as to be able to dictate all of our middle east policy that applies to Israel. This is just a flat out lie.

Some people are just unwilling to accept that Americans are good people who love freedom. So our commitment to Israel is not any different than our commitment to many democracies around the world.

I was NOT accusing you of being an anti-semite. If you got as much out of my post (which I can see why you might have), I apologize. Although I agree completely with Del, I do not think you are being anti-semetic.

However, the whole "close Jewish friends" thing is a cliche response to that kind of accusation, hence why the response from myself and Del. I don't think either of us are saying that you don't have close Jewish friends. You probably do. But it was just the wrong statement at the wrong time, is all.

On Israel, however... believe it or not, Jews still do not have a say in the Government. Yes, we may own Hollywood () and all, but the government, for the most part, is made up of white Christian males. Obviously, that isn't the entire government, as people like Barack Obama, Joseph Leiberman, and Condoliza Rice prove. But it is the majority.

Obviously, the Government wants our support, as much as it wants the support of the rest of the people it represents (something our current government does not have... after all, Congress's approval rating is lower then Bush's... and that's just sad). Say you may, in fact, be partially correct. However, we have always supported Israel, and not JUST because of the amount of Jews in America. We supported Israel when America (including the government) was still anti-Semetic (which is significant and does work against your argument... that we supported Israel when we hated Jews), and it hasn't changed.

And you have to understand that Christians support Israel just as much as Jews do because it is also the Christian Holy Land. After all, if you believe the New Testament (*bites tongue*), Jesus was born, raised, preached, and died in Israel.

Great Post Nathan

I work in Hollywood and am very familiar with Jewish community there, and also from when I worked in retail in a mostly Jewish community near 3rd & Fairfax in Los Angeles. All I can say is that I love the Jewish people and I admire them for their many achievments, even in the face of adversity and racism.

But I would correct you on one point. I don't believe that most Christians support Israel because it is simply the "Christian Holy Land" too. That is important to us, but obviously not as important as it is to the Jewish people with their historical ties to Jerusalem and the temple mount. In my opinion, many Christians support and love Israel and the Jewish people -- because God loves Israel and the Jewish people! And because we as Christains (despite our obvious theological differences with Judiasm) still believe that the Jews are a covenant people with God, and that God has a plan for the Jewish people in their own homeland.

That is my opinion, other Christians may have a different one.

WOW

hahaha

Saint Del, oops sorry, wrong religion...

So you didn't score the Messiah then? You could've been the next Moses or Abraham....

Gosh, Del, I didn't realise I was talking to a nearly religious Icon...

A pity though your charity doesn't extend to people outside the Jewish religion...although your God-like demeanour does...

I did not include that information to make it sound as if I were a saint or something. And in terms of the thing about being "declared righteous" -- it doesn't matter wether or not you believe it or not, because it is also not something that I need to believe either (being a Christian I have a different belief in the mode in which people will be 'declared righteous). But the point was; I took it as a great compliment, especially coming from a Rabbi who had lived through the Nazi holocaust as a child. The point was that he believed it to be true, and it was based on TRUE FRIENDSHIP to the Jewish people by me. However I didn't expect that you would understand that... And I especially didn't expect that you would make fun of it either.

But then what should I expect from an anti semitic America and Israel basher.

[Gainsbarre]

I agree Stringman. Gainsbarre has already demonstrated a complete bias against the United States and it was only a matter of time that he showed his true colors in regard to Israel and Jewish Americans. I really don't know how to interpret a comment like this one, other than to call it anti-semitism:

Andrew Stephen in The New Statesman wrote:

"...even to mention the existence of the Israel lobby is to risk being labelled anti-Semitic"

Jewish-American billionaire George Soros:

"I do believe that attitudes toward Israel are influenced by Israel's policies, and attitudes toward the Jewish community are influenced by the pro-Israel lobby's success in suppressing divergent views"

Former US President Jimmy Carter wrote:

"The many controversial issues concerning Palestine and the path to peace for Israel are intensely debated among Israelis and throughout other nations — but not in the United States. For the last 30 years, I have witnessed and experienced the severe restraints on any free and balanced discussion of the facts. This reluctance to criticize any policies of the Israeli government is because of the extraordinary lobbying efforts of the American-Israel Political Action Committee and the absence of any significant contrary voices. [...] What is even more difficult to comprehend is why the editorial pages of the major newspapers and magazines in the United States exercise similar self-restraint, quite contrary to private assessments expressed quite forcefully by their correspondents in the Holy Land."

With regards to US Congressmen, Bard writes that:

"there are no benefits to candidates taking an openly anti-Israel stance and considerable costs in both loss of campaign contributions and votes from Jews and non-Jews alike."

We hear statements like this all the time. Mostly coming from the rabid Jew haters like Minister Farakhan and a few others. To blame the Jews on all the problems in the middle east and in the world is nothing new to us. And also a sad reality in our Christian history as well. But it is a fallacy of reasoning to assume that the minority of Jews in the United States have that much power of our government as to be able to dictate all of our middle east policy that applies to Israel. This is just a flat out lie.

Some people are just unwilling to accept that Americans are good people who love freedom. So our commitment to Israel is not any different than our commitment to many democracies around the world.

Del, is Jimmy Carter a Jew hater?

Is Mitchell Bard, head of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE), a Jew-hater?

Is Jewish-American billionaire George Soros a Jew-hater?

I did not include that information to make it sound as if I were a saint or something. And in terms of the thing about being "declared righteous" -- it doesn't matter wether or not you believe it or not, because it is also not something that I need to believe either (being a Christian I have a different belief in the mode in which people will be 'declared righteous). But the point was; I took it as a great compliment, especially coming from a Rabbi who had lived through the Nazi holocaust as a child. The point was that he believed it to be true, and it was based on TRUE FRIENDSHIP to the Jewish people by me. However I didn't expect that you would understand that... And I especially didn't expect that you would make fun of it either.

Well you see Del, one of my close Jewish friends, his family actually came from The Netherlands, and went to the concentration camps during the war, and escaped. So they had a particularly horrific experience under Nazi occupation, and I'm sure they would love to hear the fact that you don't believe they exist...

Oh and for your information, the other American Jew I happen to be close with is actually my boyfriend

Del, how does a person like you who attacks people, calls them names, railroads their discussions, tries to put people down with insults...how do you have the gall to then claim to be Christian?

[Del Zeppnile]

Del, is Jimmy Carter a Jew hater?

Is Mitchell Bard, head of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE), a Jew-hater?

Is Jewish-American billionaire George Soros a Jew-hater?

Jimmy Carter is a crazy man who happend to be President for four agonizing years. He has a lot of opinions, however, during his presidency he had very few good ideas... if any. So I wouldn't actually give much weight to anything he has to say.

George Sorros is a megalomaniac who is currently destroying the Democratic Party. In the opinion of Democratic Senator Joseph Lieberman (a Jew) he said of Sorros' views on America as being, "so negative, so critical, and so often anti-American." And in addition Lieberman said, "His [sorros] view of America is so negative. The places he's put his money are, in my opinion, so destructive that it unsettles me." And that coming from a fellow Democrat.

And as far as the quotes you provided on Mitchel Bard -- He was simply commenting on the fact that Jewish-Americans are good at doing their civic duty and showing up to vote.

[Gainsbarre]

And as far as the quotes you provided on Mitchel Bard -- He was simply commenting on the fact that Jewish-Americans are good at doing their civic duty and showing up to vote.

He said exactly what I said: that American politicians understand the importance of the Jewish vote, and that there is a potential to lose votes and campaign funds by taking an Anti-Israel stance...

And what I said all along is that US politicians put a lot of their support behind Israel because they are worried about alienating the Jewish vote...

But I get labelled an anti-semite for saying it, but Mitchell Bard doesn't...

[Del Zeppnile]

He said exactly what I said: that American politicians understand the importance of the Jewish vote, and that there is a potential to lose votes and campaign funds by taking an Anti-Israel stance...

And what I said all along is that US politicians put a lot of their support behind Israel because they are worried about alienating the Jewish vote...

But I get labelled an anti-semite for saying it, but Mitchell Bard doesn't...

That is called 'weaslespeak' because it is not what you said or what you implied.

What you said was:

You back Israel because you have a lot of Jews in your country, and some of them hold very influential positions and have a bit of money...

That statement has nothing to do with the "Jewish vote" as it turns out to be on election days. Your statement implied that there were Jewish people in high positions using their power, money and influence, to alter national policy in regards to Israel.

That was the biggoted comment that you got called out on.

Next!....

[Gainsbarre]

That statement has nothing to do with the "Jewish vote" as it turns out to be on election days. Your statement implied that there were Jewish people in high positions using their power, money and influence, to alter national policy in regards to Israel.

"In his book Jewish Power, J.J. Goldberg writes that in the United States the "Jewish lobby" for decades played a leadership role in formulating American policy on issues such as civil rights, separation of church and state, and immigration, guided by a liberalism that was a complex mixture of Jewish tradition, the experience of persecution, and self interest. It was thrust into prominence following the Nixon Administration's sharp shift of American policy towards significant military and foreign aid support for Israel following the following the 1973 Yom Kippur war.[5] In a 2004 speech he says: "There has been an awful lot of talk in the last few years about the rise of the Jewish lobby and the influence of the Jewish lobby. It used to be that you couldn’t talk about this sort of thing. When I wrote [the book] "Jewish Power" in 1996 ... I was accused by various Jewish lobbyists of inflating and buying into the old myths of international Jewish conspiracies simply by the use of the title." He added: "There is such a thing as a Jewish lobby, that the network of organizations that works together to put across what might be called the Jewish community’s view on world affairs is not insignificant, it’s not an invention, but it is not some sort of all-powerful octopus that it’s sometimes portrayed as these days."

So Del, are you telling me there is not one single Jewish person in the whole of the USA who might using their power or wealth to influence US policy with regards to Israel? Not one person?

I bet if I said to you there are muslim terrorists, I bet you wouldn't be calling that an example of bigotry...

But the minute anyone makes a comment about anybody who's Jewish, you're off calling them anti-semitic, bigoted, racist...

And again, you haven't got me beat. I've proved I'm not anti-semitic, and you can't prove any of your arguments because you don't have any, so like I said, you resort to Bill O'Reilly tricks of trying to shut people down when they disagree with you.

Which is probably because you don't have any ideas of your own, only what's been fed to you. And like an obedient dog, you bark back at people who have different ideas.

[The Rover]

Pelosi: President Should Consider Boycotting Olympics' Opening

"I think boycotting the opening ceremony, which really gives respect to the Chinese government, is something that should be kept on the table," Pelosi, D-Calif., told "Good Morning America" co-anchor Robin Roberts in an interview airing Tuesday. "I think the president might want to rethink this later, depending on what other heads of state do."

Pelosi Considers Boycott of Games' Opening

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has announced she will not attend the Olympic Games, set to begin on August 8, 2008. Pelosi, meanwhile, has been outspoken in support of Tibet, the site of recent crackdowns on human rights demonstrators by the Chinese government.

In a recent trip to Dharmasala, India, home of the Dalai Lama's displaced Tibetan government, Pelosi said, "If freedom-loving people don't speak out against China's oppression of people in Tibet, we have lost all moral authority to speak out against any oppressed people."

In her interview with GMA, the speaker continued to denounce China's rule over Tibet and expressed regret that the communist nation would play host to the summer games.

"I don't think China should have gotten the Olympic Games to begin with," Pelosi told GMA." I had a resolution in the Congress which was very popular, and bipartisan support on it. But they did get them with the promise that they would open up more and have better respect for human rights and freedom of expression. They have not honored that."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/sto...0253&page=1

[zepyep]

KATMANDU, Nepal — A group of 200 Tibetan exiles and monks tried to storm the Chinese Embassy visa office in Nepal's capital on Sunday but police beat them back with bamboo batons.

At least 130 protesters were arrested and some of the demonstrators and policemen were injured in the scuffle.

The protesters reached the metal gate of the fortified compound and were kicking and trying to push it open when police armed with bamboo batons raced to the scene and began beating them.

"Stop the killing, stop the killing," the protesters chanted as they charged toward the office gate.

Tibetans have protested in front of the Chinese Embassy visa office in the heart of Katmandu in the past, but it was the first time they had reached the gate and tried to push through.

Sunday's protest is the latest by Tibetan monks and refugees in Katmandu against Chinese authorities' crackdown on recent demonstrations in Tibet.

Police officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, citing policy, said those arrested are being held in several detention centers and will likely be freed later in the day. They will not face any charges.

[Gainsbarre]

KATMANDU, Nepal — A group of 200 Tibetan exiles and monks tried to storm the Chinese Embassy visa office in Nepal's capital on Sunday but police beat them back with bamboo batons.

At least 130 protesters were arrested and some of the demonstrators and policemen were injured in the scuffle.

Well now is certainly the best time for the Tibetans to start going for it...

The Chinese are really painted into a corner, thanks to Mao. It'll be fascinating to see how they handle this. If things in Tibet get worse and the Chinese don't crack down, then they'll probably have to agree to greater autonomy for Tibet, leading to independence. It'll be interesting to see how other parts of China will react to this, such as the Cantonese-speaking people in the south. They may feel that if Tibet is no longer under Beijing's thumb, then why should they be...

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Well now is certainly the best time for the Tibetans to start going for it...

The Chinese are really painted into a corner, thanks to Mao. It'll be fascinating to see how they handle this. If things in Tibet get worse and the Chinese don't crack down, then they'll probably have to agree to greater autonomy for Tibet, leading to independence. It'll be interesting to see how other parts of China will react to this, such as the Cantonese-speaking people in the south. They may feel that if Tibet is no longer under Beijing's thumb, then why should they be...

That's true.One only has to look at the former USSR,to see the 'layers' peel away.Today you can see it in the Balkans,....

China,I think will react they why it always has,violence,arrests,spin the story by munipilating the media.Which,if the IOC,which asked/told China to open up the internet to the media for the games,will be hard to do.Someone will get brave and leak some wholly powerful stories of what is really going on,...

Counties don't expolde from without,they implode from within.

KB

[Gainsbarre]

Hi all,

That's true.One only has to look at the former USSR,to see the 'layers' peel away.Today you can see it in the Balkans,....

China,I think will react they why it always has,violence,arrests,spin the story by munipilating the media.Which,if the IOC,which asked/told China to open up the internet to the media for the games,will be hard to do.Someone will get brave and leak some wholly powerful stories of what is really going on,...

Counties don't expolde from without,they implode from within.

KB

It's a tricky one this...

Because the Chinese economy is booming and living standards are getting higher and higher, generally revolts and protests don't usually happen when things are looking good economically. That's how the dictatorships in Singapore and Malaysia have been able to stay in power, because of the economic growth.

People can usualy bite their tongue if their pay packets are starting to look good. Obviously this economic boom is not benefitting the Tibetans ,and they're tired of being ruled by Beijing, so this is their opportunity to do something.

So whether or not this will have an impact on the rest of China I guess remains to be seen. The thing I've learned over the years is that Asians are very pragmatic and are very business/trade focused, and don't like politics and ideology to get in the way of business, so if things are looking good economically in China, then perhaps we won't be seeing the demise of the Communist party any time soon.

[The Rover]

House lawmakers wants Bush to boycott Olympics

AP - 4/1/2008 6:45:00 PM

CAPITOL HILL (AP) - President Bush is being urged not to go to the Olympic Games in Beijing.

Fifteen House members have written to Bush. They say it would be "clearly inappropriate" for him to attend the games in China because of the "increasingly repressive nature of that country's government."

The letter was signed by 14 Democrats and a longtime China critic, California Republican Dana Rohrabacher.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told ABC that Bush should consider staying away from the opening ceremonies as a symbolic protest against China's crackdown in Tibet.

[Del Zeppnile]

Which is probably because you don't have any ideas of your own, only what's been fed to you. And like an obedient dog, you bark back at people who have different ideas.

Hey, it's you who seem to have a problem with American support for Israel, wether it comes from Jewish-Americans or any other Americans. It was you who started with the name calling and biggoted comments. And you who are now trying to spin it the other way. All I did was post an article about Tibet and you started with "Bill O'Reily is your hero" type of comments.

What's the matter Gainsbarre, it doesn't feel good when someone exposes your biggotry and bias against Americans?

Yeah I know about "your ideas" but why don't you tell them to your friend.