McCain, Obama, 9/11

[jabe]

On the eve of a time and place where a culture hates our American guts and our way of life,and flew commercial aircraft with innocent passengers on board,into skyscrapers with with innocent people within the walls,killing thousands...

Google the World Trade Center or 9/11.Revisit the atrocity that occured seven years ago.Watch 20-30 minutes of history and reflect.

Who best to lead should this occur again?

[Electrophile]

Yes, let's exploit 9/11 even more than the GOP did during their Convention. That's good. As if the dead haven't been used enough for political gain. Why don't we just say that the horrors that occurred 7 years ago should never happen again and whomever is President will do their damnedest to make sure it doesn't. I don't think either one of them in the White House will lead to automatic nuclear war.

[Suz]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...621.html?sub=AR

[59LesPaul]

I feel sorry for anyone whose birthday is tomorrow.....

[TypeO]

Funny you mention googling 9/11

I was doing an article for our Sept issue and looking for some of the original pictures of the burning buildings, etc.

Oddly, very few of those pics are available on GIS, at least in high-res.

Used to be practically any search term seemed to turn up some of those pics

Now it's all shots of ground zero rebuilding, etc.

made me wonder why such an abundance of images has dried up.

I always found the one image of the 2nd plane a split-second before impact, reflected in the windows of the building to be one of the most incredible images ever captured.

It's so full of anxiety and mystery and certainty.

I try to imagine what the terrorists could have been thinking at that very moment.

the passengers only knew any second they must surely die, but the pilots could see it happen.

it's still mind-boggling.

found pic...

[zepyep]

9/11/2001

[marolyn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...621.html?sub=AR

george has always been proud of his "c" grades...

hmmm?...so has mccain...

[Katuschka]

On the eve of a time and place where a culture hates our American guts and our way of life,and flew commercial aircraft with innocent passengers on board,into skyscrapers with with innocent people within the walls,killing thousands...

Google the World Trade Center or 9/11.Revisit the atrocity that occured seven years ago.Watch 20-30 minutes of history and reflect.

Who best to lead should this occur again?

I should feel sorry for anyone who doesn't remember what happened and can't reflect on it without having to google it, unless they were five when that happened. To such individuals I would say: "don't bother googling it because you are probably too stupid to form a decent opinion on the current situation anyway."

Is it too harsh? Yes, it probabaly is. However, this thread and your post in particular deserves it.

It was a TERRORIST ATTACK. Yes, what happened was terrible and it should not happen again, but it was terrorists who did it; blaming a whole "culture" for it is utterly ignorant. So is claiming that it happened ONLY because someone hates your way of life. Continue having such opinions and I will guarantee you that it WILL happen again.

There are two more threads on the first page dedicated to 9/11, and there are countless of other threads where people discuss the upcoming presidental election. Your contribution is rather redundant and unnecessary.

[jabe]

I should feel sorry for anyone who doesn't remember what happened and can't reflect on it without having to google it, unless they were five when that happened. To such individuals I would say: "don't bother googling it because you are probably too stupid to form a decent opinion on the current situation anyway."

Is it too harsh? Yes, it probabaly is. However, this thread and your post in particular deserves it.

It was a TERRORIST ATTACK. Yes, what happened was terrible and it should not happen again, but it was terrorists who did it; blaming a whole "culture" for it is utterly ignorant. So is claiming that it happened ONLY because someone hates your way of life. Continue having such opinions and I will guarantee you that it WILL happen again.

There are two more threads on the first page dedicated to 9/11, and there are countless of other threads where people discuss the upcoming presidental election. Your contribution is rather redundant and unnecessary.

I enjoyed reading your omniscient response.Those who carried this out are indeed a culture of terror.Your view varies greatly from my view.Sorry to be so redundant.

[Bonham]

There's not too much a President can do to prevent a terrorist attack. Especially when they're in on it.

[Cactus]

On the eve of a time and place where a culture hates our American guts and our way of life,and flew commercial aircraft with innocent passengers on board,into skyscrapers with with innocent people within the walls,killing thousands...

If you truly believe this is why it happened, you are so far removed from reality it's not worth trying to change your mind. If you Americans lived your way of life at home, and stopped interfering with the affairs of the people of other nations, then this would not have happened.

What exactly is it about the "American way of life" that could motivate someone to attack you?

[jabe]

If you truly believe this is why it happened, you are so far removed from reality it's not worth trying to change your mind. If you Americans lived your way of life at home, and stopped interfering with the affairs of the people of other nations, then this would not have happened.

What exactly is it about the "American way of life" that could motivate someone to attack you?

Thanks for your reply Cactus.So the reality is,that the US sticks its nose in other countries affairs,and that pisses off some factions so much,that they send suicide pilots to kill close to 3000 civilians to teach us a lesson,get even,or try to make us see their light?

Is this sort of how you view this reality?And don't give up on trying to change my mind.I enjoy reading differing opinions that offer substance.I do try to keep an open mind.Bring me closer to reality.

[Cactus]

Thanks for your reply Cactus.So the reality is,that the US sticks its nose in other countries affairs,and that pisses off some factions so much,that they send suicide pilots to kill close to 3000 civilians to teach us a lesson,get even,or try to make us see their light?

Is this sort of how you view this reality?And don't give up on trying to change my mind.I enjoy reading differing opinions that offer substance.I do try to keep an open mind.Bring me closer to reality.

Well look at it like this. You live peacefully in your homeland, as have generations of your family before you. You have never gone out of your way to hurt anybody, and you definitely fell no undeserved ill will towards foreigners. You are minding your own business, when one day, a group of foreign extremists, with wild ideas, invade your country, and begin attacking civilian and military targets alike. You are outraged - how dare they do this! You feel it's your sense of duty to protect your family and your homeland, and that a retaliatory strike on foreign soil is justified.

What I have just described can apply to Americans on 9/11 just as easily as it can Iraqis during 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

Making the decision to lose your own life in the attempt to kill thousands of Americans is not a decision you would make lightly. It comes from a position of hatred. What exactly is it about the 'American way of life' that could cause someone to feel that much hatred? "Freedom" is an ill-defined, subjective concept, which is often used as propaganda.

From an Arab point of view, and it's not a point of view I personally agree with, but one I can still intellectually understand, America is directly responsible for the death of Arabs in many different nations. In the way that you feel angry, saddened and violated by 9/11, they feel exactly the same about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Who is Israel's #1 foreign supporter? The USA. This is just one example. It's not about an "American way of life". It's about America's actions, and how they effect others in their own homelands.

You probably feel that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 100% justified - after all, the people who were responsible for 9/11 were hiding there, right? And remained a threat to your homeland. Put yourself in the opposing Arab point of view, and I bet you would feel exactly the same way.

An eye for an eye, everybody ends up blind.

I'm not suggesting that the western world should sit back idly, however taking a (false) simplistic view of the situation will get us nowhere. We need to take a step back, lose the emotion and view the situation for what it really is.

[allthekingshorses]

Well look at it like this. You live peacefully in your homeland, as have generations of your family before you. You have never gone out of your way to hurt anybody, and you definitely fell no undeserved ill will towards foreigners. You are minding your own business, when one day, a group of foreign extremists, with wild ideas, invade your country, and begin attacking civilian and military targets alike. You are outraged - how dare they do this! You feel it's your sense of duty to protect your family and your homeland, and that a retaliatory strike on foreign soil is justified.

What I have just described can apply to Americans on 9/11 just as easily as it can Iraqis during 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

Making the decision to lose your own life in the attempt to kill thousands of Americans is not a decision you would make lightly. It comes from a position of hatred. What exactly is it about the 'American way of life' that could cause someone to feel that much hatred? "Freedom" is an ill-defined, subjective concept, which is often used as propaganda.

From an Arab point of view, and it's not a point of view I personally agree with, but one I can still intellectually understand, America is directly responsible for the death of Arabs in many different nations. In the way that you feel angry, saddened and violated by 9/11, they feel exactly the same about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Who is Israel's #1 foreign supporter? The USA. This is just one example. It's not about an "American way of life". It's about America's actions, and how they effect others in their own homelands.

You probably feel that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 100% justified - after all, the people who were responsible for 9/11 were hiding there, right? And remained a threat to your homeland. Put yourself in the opposing Arab point of view, and I bet you would feel exactly the same way.

An eye for an eye, everybody ends up blind.

I'm not suggesting that the western world should sit back idly, however taking a (false) simplistic view of the situation will get us nowhere. We need to take a step back, lose the emotion and view the situation for what it really is.

Well said.

[jabe]

Well look at it like this. You live peacefully in your homeland, as have generations of your family before you. You have never gone out of your way to hurt anybody, and you definitely fell no undeserved ill will towards foreigners. You are minding your own business, when one day, a group of foreign extremists, with wild ideas, invade your country, and begin attacking civilian and military targets alike. You are outraged - how dare they do this! You feel it's your sense of duty to protect your family and your homeland, and that a retaliatory strike on foreign soil is justified.

What I have just described can apply to Americans on 9/11 just as easily as it can Iraqis during 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

Making the decision to lose your own life in the attempt to kill thousands of Americans is not a decision you would make lightly. It comes from a position of hatred. What exactly is it about the 'American way of life' that could cause someone to feel that much hatred? "Freedom" is an ill-defined, subjective concept, which is often used as propaganda.

From an Arab point of view, and it's not a point of view I personally agree with, but one I can still intellectually understand, America is directly responsible for the death of Arabs in many different nations. In the way that you feel angry, saddened and violated by 9/11, they feel exactly the same about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Who is Israel's #1 foreign supporter? The USA. This is just one example. It's not about an "American way of life". It's about America's actions, and how they effect others in their own homelands.

You probably feel that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 100% justified - after all, the people who were responsible for 9/11 were hiding there, right? And remained a threat to your homeland. Put yourself in the opposing Arab point of view, and I bet you would feel exactly the same way.

An eye for an eye, everybody ends up blind.

I'm not suggesting that the western world should sit back idly, however taking a (false) simplistic view of the situation will get us nowhere. We need to take a step back, lose the emotion and view the situation for what it really is.

Cactus,you offer a well written piece presenting your perspective.You explained your view quite well without the verbal dart throwing tactics others on this forum sometimes use.Although opinions certainly vary,I do enjoy reading most of the forum editorials.

[marolyn]

Well look at it like this. You live peacefully in your homeland, as have generations of your family before you. You have never gone out of your way to hurt anybody, and you definitely fell no undeserved ill will towards foreigners. You are minding your own business, when one day, a group of foreign extremists, with wild ideas, invade your country, and begin attacking civilian and military targets alike. You are outraged - how dare they do this! You feel it's your sense of duty to protect your family and your homeland, and that a retaliatory strike on foreign soil is justified.

What I have just described can apply to Americans on 9/11 just as easily as it can Iraqis during 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

Making the decision to lose your own life in the attempt to kill thousands of Americans is not a decision you would make lightly. It comes from a position of hatred. What exactly is it about the 'American way of life' that could cause someone to feel that much hatred? "Freedom" is an ill-defined, subjective concept, which is often used as propaganda.

From an Arab point of view, and it's not a point of view I personally agree with, but one I can still intellectually understand, America is directly responsible for the death of Arabs in many different nations. In the way that you feel angry, saddened and violated by 9/11, they feel exactly the same about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Who is Israel's #1 foreign supporter? The USA. This is just one example. It's not about an "American way of life". It's about America's actions, and how they effect others in their own homelands.

You probably feel that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 100% justified - after all, the people who were responsible for 9/11 were hiding there, right? And remained a threat to your homeland. Put yourself in the opposing Arab point of view, and I bet you would feel exactly the same way.

An eye for an eye, everybody ends up blind.

I'm not suggesting that the western world should sit back idly, however taking a (false) simplistic view of the situation will get us nowhere. We need to take a step back, lose the emotion and view the situation for what it really is.

good post...just want to point out that the people responsible for 9/11 had nothing to do with iraq.

[Cactus]

good post...just want to point out that the people responsible for 9/11 had nothing to do with iraq.

I agree, but for the sake of my argument was going to let it go unchallenged.

[electricmage]

Well look at it like this. You live peacefully in your homeland, as have generations of your family before you. You have never gone out of your way to hurt anybody, and you definitely fell no undeserved ill will towards foreigners. You are minding your own business, when one day, a group of foreign extremists, with wild ideas, invade your country, and begin attacking civilian and military targets alike. You are outraged - how dare they do this! You feel it's your sense of duty to protect your family and your homeland, and that a retaliatory strike on foreign soil is justified.

What I have just described can apply to Americans on 9/11 just as easily as it can Iraqis during 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

Making the decision to lose your own life in the attempt to kill thousands of Americans is not a decision you would make lightly. It comes from a position of hatred. What exactly is it about the 'American way of life' that could cause someone to feel that much hatred? "Freedom" is an ill-defined, subjective concept, which is often used as propaganda.

From an Arab point of view, and it's not a point of view I personally agree with, but one I can still intellectually understand, America is directly responsible for the death of Arabs in many different nations. In the way that you feel angry, saddened and violated by 9/11, they feel exactly the same about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Who is Israel's #1 foreign supporter? The USA. This is just one example. It's not about an "American way of life". It's about America's actions, and how they effect others in their own homelands.

You probably feel that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 100% justified - after all, the people who were responsible for 9/11 were hiding there, right? And remained a threat to your homeland. Put yourself in the opposing Arab point of view, and I bet you would feel exactly the same way.

An eye for an eye, everybody ends up blind.

I'm not suggesting that the western world should sit back idly, however taking a (false) simplistic view of the situation will get us nowhere. We need to take a step back, lose the emotion and view the situation for what it really is.

Whether of not you believe it, those radical muslims want nothing less then world domination. They want to spread the muslim word, enslave women, do what they can to gain power. Like the Nazi's before them, they want to conquer. It might have taken years, but they would have attacked either way.

[wanna be drummer]

There's not too much a President can do to prevent a terrorist attack. Especially when they're in on it.

That's a crock. Bush couldn't have pulled this off

And Loose Change was a joke. Even my brother (whose an 11th grader) could disprove some of that shit by himself (actually we did one weekend). Fuck that Dillon guy

That aside, RIP all those who died in the attacks. May we never forget

[wanna be drummer]

Well look at it like this. You live peacefully in your homeland, as have generations of your family before you. You have never gone out of your way to hurt anybody, and you definitely fell no undeserved ill will towards foreigners. You are minding your own business, when one day, a group of foreign extremists, with wild ideas, invade your country, and begin attacking civilian and military targets alike. You are outraged - how dare they do this! You feel it's your sense of duty to protect your family and your homeland, and that a retaliatory strike on foreign soil is justified.

What I have just described can apply to Americans on 9/11 just as easily as it can Iraqis during 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'.

This is true, sort of, today. But when we first came in, the Iraqi people loved us.

Making the decision to lose your own life in the attempt to kill thousands of Americans is not a decision you would make lightly. It comes from a position of hatred. What exactly is it about the 'American way of life' that could cause someone to feel that much hatred? "Freedom" is an ill-defined, subjective concept, which is often used as propaganda.

From an Arab point of view, and it's not a point of view I personally agree with, but one I can still intellectually understand, America is directly responsible for the death of Arabs in many different nations. In the way that you feel angry, saddened and violated by 9/11, they feel exactly the same about what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Who is Israel's #1 foreign supporter? The USA. This is just one example. It's not about an "American way of life". It's about America's actions, and how they effect others in their own homelands.

What Israel has done to Palestinians? What have Palestinians done to Israel.

You probably feel that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are 100% justified - after all, the people who were responsible for 9/11 were hiding there, right? And remained a threat to your homeland. Put yourself in the opposing Arab point of view, and I bet you would feel exactly the same way.

I feel Afghanistan was justified and still is. Iraq, not so much.

An eye for an eye, everybody ends up blind.

I'm not suggesting that the western world should sit back idly, however taking a (false) simplistic view of the situation will get us nowhere. We need to take a step back, lose the emotion and view the situation for what it really is.

And what is it exactly?

Whether of not you believe it, those radical muslims want nothing less then world domination. They want to spread the muslim word, enslave women, do what they can to gain power. Like the Nazi's before them, they want to conquer. It might have taken years, but they would have attacked either way.

Now this is well said.

[Cactus]

What Israel has done to Palestinians? What have Palestinians done to Israel.

This is my point exactly. I was quite clear in my post that I wasn't taking the side of the Arabs, I was just pointing out what their point of view is. The Israelis attack the Palestinians, so the Palestinians attack the Israelis, so the Israelis make a revenge attack etc ad infinitum. This gets us nowhere.

The point I am trying to make is that a black and white sense of 'right and wrong' leads to poor decision making. Don't forget that Muslim terrorists killed 202 people, including 88 of my countrymen and women. Yet here in Australia we don't fool ourselves into thinking that it was an attack on 'our way of life', whatever that means. Because that's too simplistic. Australians were not attacked because they came from a democratic nation, or a secular nation, or a capitalist nation, or however you choose to describe our 'way of life'.

Whether of not you believe it, those radical muslims want nothing less then world domination. They want to spread the muslim word, enslave women, do what they can to gain power. Like the Nazi's before them, they want to conquer. It might have taken years, but they would have attacked either way.

If you choose to argue that these attacks are based upon a desire to spread Islam and destroy all non-believers, then be careful. The US and a handful of 'willing' nations are spreading another doctrine around the world, by force, called 'Democracy'. How do you think the people in Arghanistan and Iraq feel about their sham democracies, which are not really more than puppet governments put in place by the Western nations. [Edit: this situation may change in the future, with their governments becoming truly democratic, but at the moment, it is not]

I havn't even gone in to the argument that the US is in the Middle East solely to secure oil supplies. I would warn all those here to be careful of viewing the US as a purely well intentioned nation which is attempting to bring peace to the world. The only currency that matters in international relations is power - so to argue that the muslims are like the Nazis, and that's bad because all they want is 'power' is really a hypocritical argument. The US wants power just as much as anybody else. Their methods may be different, but in the end the result is the same.

[wanna be drummer]

This is my point exactly. I was quite clear in my post that I wasn't taking the side of the Arabs, I was just pointing out what their point of view is. The Israelis attack the Palestinians, so the Palestinians attack the Israelis, so the Israelis make a revenge attack etc ad infinitum. This gets us nowhere.

The Israelis attacked first? What history book are you reading?

The point I am trying to make is that a black and white sense of 'right and wrong' leads to poor decision making. Don't forget that Muslim terrorists killed 202 people, including 88 of my countrymen and women. Yet here in Australia we don't fool ourselves into thinking that it was an attack on 'our way of life', whatever that means. Because that's too simplistic. Australians were not attacked because they came from a democratic nation, or a secular nation, or a capitalist nation, or however you choose to describe our 'way of life'.

When 3000 people die due to terrorist attacks and the terrorists tell a government that more is to come, then it becomes pretty black and white. We invade Afghanistan to get the fucker who was behind the whole thing

If you choose to argue that these attacks are based upon a desire to spread Islam and destroy all non-believers, then be careful. The US and a handful of 'willing' nations are spreading another doctrine around the world, by force, called 'Democracy'. How do you think the people in Arghanistan and Iraq feel about their sham democracies, which are not really more than puppet governments put in place by the Western nations. [Edit: this situation may change in the future, with their governments becoming truly democratic, but at the moment, it is not]

Agreed

I havn't even gone in to the argument that the US is in the Middle East solely to secure oil supplies. I would warn all those here to be careful of viewing the US as a purely well intentioned nation which is attempting to bring peace to the world. The only currency that matters in international relations is power - so to argue that the muslims are like the Nazis, and that's bad because all they want is 'power' is really a hypocritical argument. The US wants power just as much as anybody else. Their methods may be different, but in the end the result is the same.

It's in the method that counts

[Cactus]

The Israelis attacked first? What history book are you reading?

When 3000 people die due to terrorist attacks and the terrorists tell a government that more is to come, then it becomes pretty black and white. We invade Afghanistan to get the fucker who was behind the whole thing

You're missing my point, I'm not trying to say Israel is responsible. Make it the other way around, it doesn't matter - say the Palestinians attacked first, then the Israelis retaliated, then the Palestinians got revenge, then the Israelis got revenge etc. It goes on forever, no-one has sight of the big picture, they are just responding to the last attack.

Sure, if you believe you are under a direct threat, you have to protect yourself. But what does Iraq have to do with it? They were not a direct threat. Whether or not the government genuinely believed they were or not, the current situation is the US has invaded an Arab nation which was not a threat. How do you think Arabs feel about that? And now the US sticks around to make a grab for the oil. Put yourself in the other position - imagine Canada attacked Iraq, and the Iraqis decided that while they invade Canada, in self defence, they will come and attack the USA as well, under the false assumption the USA is a threat. Then once they are there, they hang around in Texas and steal all your oil. That would hurt your national pride wouldn't it.

What I am saying is, the USA is on a course of action now which is breeding discontent amongst the world's population, people are very disillusioned, and if something is not done to restore the USA's image as a powerful, yet ethical and benevolent nation, you will find your grasp on power will slip very fast. Take out those who are direct threats, and make sure they are out of action, sure. But a simultaneous plan of action which endears the USA to the world must also occur - after all, a nation of warmongers is asking for nothing but war.

[Patrycja]

If you choose to argue that these attacks are based upon a desire to spread Islam and destroy all non-believers, then be careful. The US and a handful of 'willing' nations are spreading another doctrine around the world, by force, called 'Democracy'. How do you think the people in Arghanistan and Iraq feel about their sham democracies, which are not really more than puppet governments put in place by the Western nations. [Edit: this situation may change in the future, with their governments becoming truly democratic, but at the moment, it is not]

I havn't even gone in to the argument that the US is in the Middle East solely to secure oil supplies. I would warn all those here to be careful of viewing the US as a purely well intentioned nation which is attempting to bring peace to the world. The only currency that matters in international relations is power - so to argue that the muslims are like the Nazis, and that's bad because all they want is 'power' is really a hypocritical argument. The US wants power just as much as anybody else. Their methods may be different, but in the end the result is the same.

I'm not saying that going in to other nations and enforcing a new order is right (though sometimes it's not wrong, and in those times it's referred to as liberation--not the case in Iraq) but surely there are differences in the orders imposed, no? If all choices (in this case amongst types of government or rule) were the same, then there would no such thing as choice. If I'm reading your post right, it boils down to intent and you're pulling the veil off of using democracy as a front when what is really sought is power? There has to be a better awareness of and balance between not interfering (Iraq, both times) and helping (say, Poland in the early 80's)

What I am saying is, the USA is on a course of action now which is breeding discontent amongst the world's population, people are very disillusioned, and if something is not done to restore the USA's image as a powerful, yet ethical and benevolent nation, you will find your grasp on power will slip very fast. Take out those who are direct threats, and make sure they are out of action, sure. But a simultaneous plan of action which endears the USA to the world must also occur - after all, a nation of warmongers is asking for nothing but war.

Well said. I've mentioned words to the effect elsewhere, and this is why people from other countries are watching this election unfold so intently.Like it or not, US policies and economy cast a long shadow, but the balance of power is shifting (ie/rise of EU). The US can't, for example, just ignore international agreements when it feels like it and then ask other nations to abide by them when it gets itself neck deep in shit. You can't help but get the feeling that the US is on a dangerous precipice with governments who want to support and attack looking for justification; a shift in policies domestic and foreign will go some way in alleviating pressure on both sides. Just don't give factions lying in wait to attack any more excuses to do so.

[wanna be drummer]

You're missing my point, I'm not trying to say Israel is responsible. Make it the other way around, it doesn't matter - say the Palestinians attacked first, then the Israelis retaliated, then the Palestinians got revenge, then the Israelis got revenge etc. It goes on forever, no-one has sight of the big picture, they are just responding to the last attack.

I totally get what you're saying, but it doesn't help that Palestinians are being herded into terrorist organizations and have anti-Jew propoganda bombarding them. Not much the USA or Israel can do there to protect their image.

Sure, if you believe you are under a direct threat, you have to protect yourself. But what does Iraq have to do with it? They were not a direct threat. Whether or not the government genuinely believed they were or not, the current situation is the US has invaded an Arab nation which was not a threat. How do you think Arabs feel about that? And now the US sticks around to make a grab for the oil. Put yourself in the other position - imagine Canada attacked Iraq, and the Iraqis decided that while they invade Canada, in self defence, they will come and attack the USA as well, under the false assumption the USA is a threat. Then once they are there, they hang around in Texas and steal all your oil. That would hurt your national pride wouldn't it.

First of all, I'm not saying I agree with Iraq.

Second, I guess I have to repeat myself. The Iraqi people did not hate us nor did they dislike us when we entered Iraq. They started to hate us only when we didn't leave and essentially declared martial law.

What I am saying is, the USA is on a course of action now which is breeding discontent amongst the world's population, people are very disillusioned, and if something is not done to restore the USA's image as a powerful, yet ethical and benevolent nation, you will find your grasp on power will slip very fast. Take out those who are direct threats, and make sure they are out of action, sure. But a simultaneous plan of action which endears the USA to the world must also occur - after all, a nation of warmongers is asking for nothing but war.

I agree