Suz Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think you mean their stupidity Man, this is a terribbly slippery slope. I have to say that I don't entirely disagree with IHGAH. My brother was not stupid; he was incredibly intelligent. I spent years asking all the "Why?"'s and going through all that. Of course I wish he was still here, and to me his death at a young age was and is a tragedy. My family has been left to torture ourselves for the rest of our lives. Those moments can pop up after years, unexpectedly. But you learn to live with it (though you never fully heal). I have to admit that there was a part of me, in my deepest grief, that was proud of him. It was like a giant FUCK YOU, I'm outta here. I am almost afraid to post this, but I have faith enough in humanity that no one would read it and think, "Oh that's it. Now I'm gonna do it." No I don't feel this way so much anymore, but I am also not ashamed and have never been disappointed in him as a person. He did what he felt he had to do and saw no option. A million times I fantasized about being there and stopping him. A million times I begged god (yes, I begged god) to let me wake up like it had just been a nightmare. Well the nightmare was real and for my brother his own existence had become a nightmare. I'm the last person to advocate taking one's own life. But he wasn't stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 no, actually in regards to heroin recovery specifically, those numbers include all forms of treatment. he had tried all kinds of programs, but all of them seemed to be trading something for something...always acknowledging that you were a slave to "something"... he just did a 180 turn and said...i'm done, i'm not a slave to any drug or any therapy.. they promote the methodone program as the best solution and convince individuals it is just like a diabetic taking insulin. the pharmaceutical companies are making big money off these government subsidized programs and it's in their best interest to promote those statistics. If that worked for him, that's wonderful. I'm not sure who the "they" is that promote methadone as the best solution. IMO, it's not, and I certainly disagree with them that it's like a diabetic taking insulin. There's a methadone clinic in my area that has "Recovery" in its name and I just gnash my teeth. Methadone is a substitute for heroin, it's not 'recovery'. Every thing I've ever learned about addiction includes the concept that 'recovery' requires abstaining from the drugs, not just switching to something else. It doesn't help that a lot of addicts who switch from heroin to methadone eventually go back on heroin AS WELL as taking the methadone. from the research i did prepping for this i learned that the most likely to get off (those 5%)were doctors or lawyers (those who were threatened with the loss of their license)...when you read those studies you see that obviously, it is not a hopeless situation...if it requires something over your head, i could supply that..just told him, he didn't want his big sis flying all the way from norway to make his life hell for 3 weeks ever again...cuz i'd do it...worked like a charm... LIke I said, I'm glad that worked for him. I know a lot of folks who are in recovery, and most of the ones I know are not doctors, lawyers, nurses, etc. I also know folks in some of those professions and the threat of losing their licenses or means of livelihood was not enough to keep them clean. [for anybody out there...we took it day by day, just focusing on getting that day behind us...day 12 was the worst for him...if you can make it through day 12 you know know you are past the hump...i think having that knowledge is very powerful as it was the not knowing when it would end that caused him to give up so many times in the past] Yep, one day at a time. I'm glad he's doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have got a horsey Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think you mean their stupidity That's a very judgemental thing to say. You're a christian, let me ask you a question... If you believe in God and love God, why do you cling to the importance of living Life? If you believe in an after-life in the peace and love of God, why hang about here on earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 We've been given a life to live out for a purpose. We were given life. We don't have the right to end it. Tis not our place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have got a horsey Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 We've been given a life to live out for a purpose. We were given life. We don't have the right to end it. Tis not our place So why wouldn't you be happy for someone who's died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marolyn Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'm glad he's doing well. thanks lakey...it's just great to have him back...he's a funny guy again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 So why wouldn't you be happy for someone who's died? Becuase I'm a selfish person, as we all are. Part of me is always sad that I've lost someone, that I'll never see them again in this life. Part of me is glad that they're moving on to a better place (hopefully). It's not black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Becuase I'm a selfish person, as we all are. Part of me is always sad that I've lost someone, that I'll never see them again in this life. Part of me is glad that they're moving on to a better place (hopefully). It's not black and white. Your not being selfish. The circumstances of your friends suicide leave a lingering feeling that make us suspect that, not all was done to help , he was not of sound mind when he OD. That is not your fault ,those feelings are there because you care. This does not compare with a terminally ill person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepBlackZeppelin Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I am very sorry for your loss, wanna be. I know it's difficult to deal with and there's a plethora of confusing emotions to try to deal with, and it's difficult to try to decipher how such a good friend could die in such a way and of course, some of his loved ones are going to feel guilty because they'll feel like they could have prevented his overdosing. But it's not the place nor the time, nor will it ever be, to point fingers,try to dig inside his mind to find a fault, or interrogate anyone who knew about this. [i'm not talking about you personally] Now is the time for his loved ones to band together, emotionally heal together, and then revere him as a person. It's a hard issue to handle, and I know how hard it can be, but it can be done and I'll tell you why Before I was 12 years old, I was a sexual assault victim and was almost raped a few times before. I entered high school and absolutely thought about dwindling into drug abuse and suicide. But, somehow, I fought it all and I tried my best to deal with this cornucopia of frustrating emotions by myself. I went through this cycle for 5 years and now I admit I need to go to therapy, which I am. I just want to let you know, through my own personal experience, that traumatic experiences, whether it'd be sexual assault or the suicide of a friend, is never going to be easy to deal with. But with the right resources, you can heal, albeit it'll take some time. You do what you need to healthily heal yourself, and he's always going to be your friend. He's always going to be within your memory. It's difficult to know that, but you'll come to a point of venerating him as a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Thanks to everyone posting. But I'd like to clear something up. He was depressed, and he had tried to commit suicide in the past through drinking or drugs, but I don't think this one has been ruled as such. So far, it's looking like an accident, but who knows. But again, thank you everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepBlackZeppelin Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Sorry about that, I didn't fully understand that. I still strongly repeat what I said before, just replace suicide with whatever term is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 To everyone who shared a personal story, or even just read this and said a prayer for all the survivors...Bless You.....and bless the Souls that remain without bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mernie Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 To everyone who shared a personal story, or even just read this and said a prayer for all the survivors...Bless You.....and bless the Souls that remain without bodies. What a beautiful statement. I think it's important to remember that, as survivors, we can keep the loved ones we've lost alive in our hearts and pass the good memories on. My brother was also very intelligent, as Suz says hers was, and he could be pretty funny too. And, he loved The Who and The Doors (I was the Zep fanatic of the family). So, I remember the hilarious things he did and said, and all the things about him that made him unique, and I pass on the stories to my kids, two of whom weren't old enough to remember him, and the third who wasn't born yet. So they know their uncle, even if it's only through my stories. Although I can never forget the tragedy, I focus on the good memories and keep them close to my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Slapping Maple Sucker Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I remember the other thread, wannabe. I'm very sorry to hear about your loss and what else can I say that hasn't already been said. Your friend, his family and yourself are in my thoughts and prayers tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I don't think you really understand what I'm talking about But this argument is purely subjective so I'm afraid you can't really say to me that my post is just "rhetoric", because you have absolutely no idea whether life is better than death. And you may think that life is a something that is better than a nothing, that's fine, but to me you're merely avoiding the inevitable. I haven't attacked anybody else's opinion on this subject, I have made the point previously it's all up to what you believe personally, so please extend me the same courtesy I extended you every courtesy, with no attack whatsoever. And of course I can say your post is rhetoric--all posts are. How about "sophistry," then? I understand exactly what you're talking about, and I don't agree with it because I think you're just playing with words. If that constitutes an attack, well, sorry you're so sensitive. I'm not about to pursue the topic, though I can think of about ten different rebuttals, because I don't think it's appropriate. For the same reason, I wouldn't dream of attacking someone in a thread like this: wanna be started it because of a very sad occurrence, to highlight an illness that most of us would like to see people spared from. That's what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 To everyone who shared a personal story, or even just read this and said a prayer for all the survivors...Bless You.....and bless the Souls that remain without bodies. That is beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepBlackZeppelin Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 To everyone who shared a personal story, or even just read this and said a prayer for all the survivors...Bless You.....and bless the Souls that remain without bodies. Thanks for that. It's very kind of you to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 What a beautiful statement. I think it's important to remember that, as survivors, we can keep the loved ones we've lost alive in our hearts and pass the good memories on. My brother was also very intelligent, as Suz says hers was, and he could be pretty funny too. And, he loved The Who and The Doors (I was the Zep fanatic of the family). So, I remember the hilarious things he did and said, and all the things about him that made him unique, and I pass on the stories to my kids, two of whom weren't old enough to remember him, and the third who wasn't born yet. So they know their uncle, even if it's only through my stories. Although I can never forget the tragedy, I focus on the good memories and keep them close to my heart. Good thoughts. I tell my daughter about her uncle a lot. When we were teenagers, he used to make me pee my pants laughing when he'd do air guitar on the tennis raquet (sp?) to Zeppelin. The best was when he did Celebration Day (and I still love that damn song so much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 It is very kind of you to say Medhb. So many are affraid to relate experiences. We should be encouraging people to talk about things and you certainly are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepBlackZeppelin Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 It is very kind of you to say Medhb. So many are affraid to relate experiences. We should be encouraging people to talk about things and you certainly are I completely concur, it's so hard to share a traumatic experience because people are always so sharp and quick to judge. But once you do, and the person is understanding, it really does help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I just feel so much for everyone who was brave enough to share. I wish one could wave a magic wand and there would be no evil in the world, nothing to run from, no fear. I'm so proud to call you all my friends. YOU are the ones who are showing others...you CAN survive, you CAN get through difficult times. The more people you share your stories with the more people you help. It kind of reminds me of a friend who had a friend who ran over his own child. It was purely an accident but he was on suicide watch, he could not forgive himself. What words can be said to someone in that situation? Only someone else who had lived through that same experience could really be of any help, I'm sure. It's so nice to be surprised daily by the thoughtfulness of others, sharing, caring and giving. Peace my Zep friends..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Thanks Medhb The good thing about discussing it here is that for the most part, a person is free to speak. No parents , nobody that you should really have to worry about. The only negative I see is that someone who is really in need of professional help, feels this forum is enough. It can be a start but not necessarilly a finish. Pretty safe though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Maybe we should combine this thread and the mental illness thread. It'll save us jumping around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Maybe we should combine this thread and the mental illness thread. It'll save us jumping around I was thinking that. These are two excellent threads. Mods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I was thinking that. These are two excellent threads. Mods! Wonderful idea Ally and Aqua! Can it be done?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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