Open letter to Robert

[Mercurious]

Mercurious--yes, Miles and Jimmy are comparable in stature and influence, I agree. Disagree about their sensibilities totally, though. Miles's improv was always totally controlled and tight, Jimmy's exactly the opposite--could go in amazing directions, could be a total trainwreck. Same with his playing in general--one minute all over the place, next minute absolutely on, more so than any other rock guitarist. That wasn't Miles at all. (With you both on Sketches of Spain, though. )

KidLed--seems you keep saying some variant on "Let the attacks begin!!!" We have enough fights here, without people actually provoking them.

Aquamarine -- yes, agree on Miles being tight about improv. Have you heard Bags Groove w/ Thelonious Monk? On Take One Miles and Monk start bickering in the middle because Monk doesn't lay back quite the way Miles wants him to and then on Take Two Monk gets his revenge by laying back too much. Miles was definitely a control freak. With Jimmy, he's "such a natural player" as Neil Young says; he lays out a framework and let's it flow, something that Neil obviously appreciated. But even still there are structures and cues within Led Zep improv pieces, and I don't hear Jimmy being all over the place too much (except for a few shows in 1977 when he was struggling). There is a warmth to a lot of Jimmy's playing (not all of it - some of it is purposefully machine noise) that I hear in Miles' playing. And when Jimmy is on, it's just like Miles, where the notes are not the obvious notes, they are the perfect notes that you can't imagine anyone else having thought of. They both have an otherwordly sense of composition within their improv that is strange and mysterious, that even the greatest of guitarists don't have.

The noise? Well, it's not a horn (Clapton, you should read this), and it shouldn't be played in such a way to sound like a horn (Thank you Buddy Guy). I think that's where the comparison of a guitar player to a jazz horn player becomes difficult. The willingness to experiment -- that's another thing Miles and Jimmy share.

As you can tell, I love this topic -- thanks for egging me on!

To Ally: Yes! Let's start a petition! Wonderful idea. How can it be that no one has thought of this before?

[Aquamarine]

And when Jimmy is on, it's just like Miles, where the notes are not the obvious notes, they are the perfect notes that you can't imagine anyone else having thought of. An otherwordly sense of composition.

This part I certainly agree with. But I just feel that everything about Jimmy's playing is so much looser than Miles's (sometimes for the worse, usually for the better--in any case, there's a sense of unpredictability that makes him such an exciting musician, and again that's a quality totally absent from Miles's playing). But yeah, ultimately guitar/horn comparisons become apples/oranges comparisons.

[Suz]

Yes, a purpose, at the moment.

As defined by whom?

[Suz]

There's a difference between whining and asking the question Suz. If what I say is being interpeted as whining then all I can say is, sorry

No, I'm sorry. I got so burnt out on the Plant bashing. I should not have directed that at this thread.

[Suz]

ooh, that's not a good comparison. Robert is Mick!!! Only after a lot of tears and anger did Keith put the expensive winos together and strike out on tour without Mick!!! And with Jimmy, we're talking about the Miles Davis of rock, reuniting finally with his arranger match, John Paul. I don't speak for anyone of course, but the hope is for something mindblowingly imaginative and powerful, this last being a guarantee because I don't think Jason can do anything but.

Stop it, I'm getting flustered

[ally]

No, I'm sorry. I got so burnt out on the Plant bashing. I should not have directed that at this thread.

No problem Suz . I think we're all getting burnt out by that stuff. Have a great evening girl

[Suz]

No problem Suz . I think we're all getting burnt out by that stuff. Have a great evening girl

You, too

[Mercurious]

This part I certainly agree with. But I just feel that everything about Jimmy's playing is so much looser than Miles's (sometimes for the worse, usually for the better--in any case, there's a sense of unpredictability that makes him such an exciting musician, and again that's a quality totally absent from Miles's playing). But yeah, ultimately guitar/horn comparisons become apples/oranges comparisons.

If I had to stand on one guitar piece that is most like Miles, I would say "Hey Baby" by Hendrix off of Rainbow Bridge. That's one of the statements at the end of Jimi's life that hinted at where he was going with the guitar. Getting back to what Carlos Santana said, about Jimmy Page being the person that took what Hendrix was doing as far as compositions and brought it to the next level, I would say Pagey has more Miles-like statements than Hendrix (the solo to Stairway being one that reallys stands out, but Ramble On, D'yer Maker, GTBTimes, In the Light, Ten Years Gone - there are so many!!).

I tend to believe that Miles was so hard on everybody else because he wanted to be sure the framework was set so that HE could get loose, whereas Page was perhaps a better bandleader in that he naturally invested a lot of faith in Jonesy and Bonzo -- or maybe he just had a better rhythm section than Miles!!! I agree, Miles' temperment, physicality, almost everything about him came off as tight, but give Sketches of Spain a listen. His playing is not tight at all, very Jimmy-like.

Agreed though, I think the early bebop players like Charlie Parker had more the Pagean unpredictability in their playing than Miles, who was kind of like the next evolution.

Oh, this is fun.

[Mercurious]

Stop it, I'm getting flustered

Oh, do go on ...

[Aquamarine]

If I had to stand on one guitar piece that is most like Miles, I would say "Hey Baby" by Hendrix off of Rainbow Bridge. That's one of the statements at the end of Jimi's life that hinted at where he was going with the guitar. Getting back to what Carlos Santana said, about Jimmy Page being the person that took what Hendrix was doing as far as compositions and brought it to the next level, I would say Pagey has more Miles-like statements than Hendrix (the solo to Stairway being one that reallys stands out, but Ramble On, D'yer Maker, GTBTimes, In the Light, Ten Years Gone - there are so many!!).

I tend to believe that Miles was so hard on everybody else because he wanted to be sure the framework was set so that HE could get loose, whereas Page was perhaps a better bandleader in that he naturally invested a lot of faith in Jonesy and Bonzo -- or maybe he just had a better rhythm section than Miles!!! I agree, Miles' temperment, physicality, almost everything about him came off as tight, but give Sketches of Spain a listen. His playing is not tight at all, very Jimmy-like.

Agreed though, I think the early bebop players like Charlie Parker had more the Pagean unpredictability in their playing than Miles, who was kind of like the next evolution.

Oh, this is fun.

Well, as I said (I think), Sketches of Spain is my favorite Miles album, and I agree it's one of his loosest (possibly its my favorite because of the way it intersects with what I like about rock 'n' roll, though interestingly most rockers who knew Miles would have gone for Bitches Brew. Kind of Blue and Birth of the Cool are my other favorites). But actually Santana himself seems more like Miles than either Jimmy or Jimi--have to say, the way the solo (which I love) to Stairway is constructed seems much more linear to me than any of Miles's compositions.

In fact, I'm wondering if someone like Ornette Coleman isn't more comparable to Page.

[ally]

This part I certainly agree with. But I just feel that everything about Jimmy's playing is so much looser than Miles's (sometimes for the worse, usually for the better--in any case, there's a sense of unpredictability that makes him such an exciting musician, and again that's a quality totally absent from Miles's playing). But yeah, ultimately guitar/horn comparisons become apples/oranges comparisons.

Yeah, have to agree with you Aqua. Miles was much more of a perfectionist. My introduction to jazz and Miles came long before Zeppelin. Hendrix went there and Jimmy took it somewhere else. Body, spirit, and soul. He just shared the experience and was respectful of his band mates wishes. That's a huge difference and it's what seperates him from those two marvelous musicians

[Mercurious]

In fact, I'm wondering if someone like Ornette Coleman isn't more comparable to Page.

I haven't been too impressed with Coleman (I like guitar noise better than horn noise) but plenty of Coleman has been left to me and is sitting over on yon shelf. I think I'll give Coleman another listen.

Thanks for the tip!

[Anarchy2Howard]

Dear Robert Plant,

Just WHY don't you want to tour with the rest of Zeppelin? I can understand that you're just tired of touring or something, but is there a deeper reason perhaps?

[Merlin]

I don't understand all of the fire and smoke about this issue. Robert - for whatever reason - chooses not to get back with the band. Is that a shame: Yes. Is it his choice: Yes. So leave him be and let's move on. Lets remember that this is not a Led Zeppelin reunion: John Bonham will not be there in body so it can never be Zep. He was a very important member of the group and contributed a HUGE part of their sound.

It was - and is - Jimmy's band, anyway (let's remmber that Robert wasn't the first choice of singer) and as long as Pagey takes the stage, I'm happy. I'm sure another singer can be found. Just what is Terry Reid doing at the moment?

[Knebby]

WHY do people keep suggesting Terry Reid? Jimmy hasn't shown any interest in him for FORTY YEARS!

Jimmy and Robert stopped working together initially in 1980. Jimmy has worked with several singers since then - none of them Terry.

Terry was Jimmy's choice for Zeppelin UNTIL HE HEARD ROBERT.

Since then, Jimmy has NEVER wanted to work with any other singer as much as Robert.

[Merlin]

WHY do people keep suggesting Terry Reid? Jimmy hasn't shown any interest in him for FORTY YEARS!

Jimmy and Robert stopped working together initially in 1980. Jimmy has worked with several singers since then - none of them Terry.

Terry was Jimmy's choice for Zeppelin UNTIL HE HEARD ROBERT.

Since then, Jimmy has NEVER wanted to work with any other singer as much as Robert.

Actually I think Terry was Jimmy choice until he was WARNED OFF working with him.

But, hey, knock yourself out. You may want Robert, but he certainly doesn't want Zep! So TR seems as good a choice as any!

[ninelives]

Dear Robert Plant,

Just WHY don't you want to tour with the rest of Zeppelin? I can understand that you're just tired of touring or something, but is there a deeper reason perhaps?

I don't think Robert is tiring of touring at all given the fact he's spent large quantities of time on the road over the last 25 years! If you look at his solo career (and even look at how Zep evolved and changed during their time together), Robert isn't someone to really revisit his past, except maybe in some remote way, putting a new spin on it. For him, I think Zep had its day and a glorious day it was, but it's over and while he was quickly on board to get together and give Ahmet a proper honoring at the 02, I think it's not something he wants to pursue as a project.

[Iden Ford]

If you listen to his interviews, Robert Plant has issues with commitment imo.

He's never managed a long term relationship, and has expressed no desire for that, and when he was interviewed way back with Page and Plant in 95, it's clear he never ever wanted to reform the band.

I don't know that man, I admire his music, I think Alison Krause was a fantastic collaboration for him, but ever since John Bonham died, he clearly wanted and wants no part of a reunion for more than one off gigs.

There is a great video on You Tube of Myles Kennedy doing Riverside Blues with a slide guitar.

Reminds me of Led Zeppelin 3.

Would love to hear them play Hat's Off To Harper live. Kennedy can pull that off. I doubt Robert Plant would ever go there in vocals anymore.

I think Kennedy would be just fantastic in the band whatever they call themselves. He would bring "new" energy and he is clearly rooted in the blues which is how Led Zeppelin started.

Both he and Jason would take the group in an interesting direction. Time for something new mixed with the old and classic.

Perhaps Robert Plant would sit in the front row and cheer and enjoy it all.

[eternal light]

It's not that simple. Anytime you have to think this hard about someone, it's not happening. Someone who is happening simply takes his place and happens.

[Aquamarine]

If you listen to his interviews, Robert Plant has issues with commitment imo.

He was Zeppelin's singer for eleven years, from the day it was formed till the day it ended.

[ledded1]

WHY do people keep suggesting Terry Reid? Jimmy hasn't shown any interest in him for FORTY YEARS!

Jimmy and Robert stopped working together initially in 1980. Jimmy has worked with several singers since then - none of them Terry.

Terry was Jimmy's choice for Zeppelin UNTIL HE HEARD ROBERT.

Since then, Jimmy has NEVER wanted to work with any other singer as much as Robert.

As much as I like Terry Reid, he couldn't do Zep songs. His voice isn't up to the rigours of what the songs need or demand

[ninelives]

If you listen to his interviews, Robert Plant has issues with commitment imo.

He's never managed a long term relationship, and has expressed no desire for that, and when he was interviewed way back with Page and Plant in 95, it's clear he never ever wanted to reform the band.

I don't know that man, I admire his music, I think Alison Krause was a fantastic collaboration for him, but ever since John Bonham died, he clearly wanted and wants no part of a reunion for more than one off gigs.

There is a great video on You Tube of Myles Kennedy doing Riverside Blues with a slide guitar.

Reminds me of Led Zeppelin 3.

Would love to hear them play Hat's Off To Harper live. Kennedy can pull that off. I doubt Robert Plant would ever go there in vocals anymore.

I think Kennedy would be just fantastic in the band whatever they call themselves. He would bring "new" energy and he is clearly rooted in the blues which is how Led Zeppelin started.

Both he and Jason would take the group in an interesting direction. Time for something new mixed with the old and classic.

Perhaps Robert Plant would sit in the front row and cheer and enjoy it all.

It's not about commitment with Robert it's about exploration. Robert is extremely passionate about music and he wants to be challenged so he seeks out different collaborations that will fulfill whatever it is he's interested in doing.

[ziggyp22]

I disagree about not having a purpose. Here's why, there is a huge number of us who came of age just as Zep was ending, I'm not talking about people who were not alive when they were together, I'm talking about those of us who were just on the cusp, like 12,13,14,15 right around 1978-1980. we all were into Zep loved Zep and were dying to see Zep, but were just a little too young. Now, check out a HS yr book in the states from the 80's, at least in my area (NorthEast) class of 82,83,84,85,86,87,88 Favorite band: LED ZEPPELIN!!!!!!

Whats my point? My point is this:Many of us have gone to Plants solo tours and bought his albums, WHY: Because we thought his solo album was great? NO! Because we hoped to hear something like Zep!! We went to the concerts WHY: Because we wanted to hear Zep! And there were plenty of ticked off people who went when he refused to play Zep on a few early tours! many of who will still not go see him! Now add into the mix tons of younger folks who now love Zep because an older brother or sister or parent turned them on to it, and have the courage in this day and age not to have their pants falling down and listen to rap garbage, in the face of teasing for it which I have witnessed w/ my own young nephew. Zeppelin is loved on a whole different level than any other rock band ever, and it has nothing to do with the idea that they split when John died. Its the music stupid! And the imagery, Its the whole idea of them doing it there way and screw the critics, its the bombast and the in your face riffs! the purpose is right there for you, WE ALL LOVE YOU !!! AND YOU WOULD HAVE NOTHING AND BE NOBODY W/O ZEP(ROBERT), NO MANSION, NO FREEDOM TO GO ANYWHERE ANYTIME, NO RECORDING CONTRACT, EVERYTHING IS DUE TO LED ZEPPELIN! JIMMY GAVE YOU A HUGE BREAK WHEN YOU WERE PLAYING IN NOTHING BANDS, HE NEEDS YOU JUST ONE MORE TIME!

The 02 was great but not attainable for the average Zep fan, one LAST small tour, play whatever the hell you want (NO STAiRWAY, NO WHOlE Lotta) and then you can go on to your elevator music and we will let it go. THATS HOW I FEEL PERIOD, Let the attacks begin!!!

No attacks necessary. Great insight and great post! It may be lost on a few, but will resonate with many.

[Aquamarine]

No attacks necessary. Great insight and great post! It may be lost on a few, but will resonate with many.

He'll be so disappointed.

[Zepaholic]

I disagree about not having a purpose. Here's why, there is a huge number of us who came of age just as Zep was ending, I'm not talking about people who were not alive when they were together, I'm talking about those of us who were just on the cusp, like 12,13,14,15 right around 1978-1980. we all were into Zep loved Zep and were dying to see Zep, but were just a little too young. Now, check out a HS yr book in the states from the 80's, at least in my area (NorthEast) class of 82,83,84,85,86,87,88 Favorite band: LED ZEPPELIN!!!!!!

Whats my point? My point is this:Many of us have gone to Plants solo tours and bought his albums, WHY: Because we thought his solo album was great? NO! Because we hoped to hear something like Zep!! We went to the concerts WHY: Because we wanted to hear Zep! And there were plenty of ticked off people who went when he refused to play Zep on a few early tours! many of who will still not go see him! Now add into the mix tons of younger folks who now love Zep because an older brother or sister or parent turned them on to it, and have the courage in this day and age not to have their pants falling down and listen to rap garbage, in the face of teasing for it which I have witnessed w/ my own young nephew. Zeppelin is loved on a whole different level than any other rock band ever, and it has nothing to do with the idea that they split when John died. Its the music stupid! And the imagery, Its the whole idea of them doing it there way and screw the critics, its the bombast and the in your face riffs! the purpose is right there for you, WE ALL LOVE YOU !!! AND YOU WOULD HAVE NOTHING AND BE NOBODY W/O ZEP(ROBERT), NO MANSION, NO FREEDOM TO GO ANYWHERE ANYTIME, NO RECORDING CONTRACT, EVERYTHING IS DUE TO LED ZEPPELIN! JIMMY GAVE YOU A HUGE BREAK WHEN YOU WERE PLAYING IN NOTHING BANDS, HE NEEDS YOU JUST ONE MORE TIME!

The 02 was great but not attainable for the average Zep fan, one LAST small tour, play whatever the hell you want (NO STAiRWAY, NO WHOlE Lotta) and then you can go on to your elevator music and we will let it go. THATS HOW I FEEL PERIOD, Let the attacks begin!!!

This is a great post...straight from the heart. I do not agree with Plant being a nobody because his voice was so unique that SOMEBODY was going to notice, but an honest viewpoint nonetheless.

Honesty and passion should never be attacked.