To end Zeppelin

[SteveAJones]

I'm a little vague on Plant's selling his rights to the LZ back catalogue. As co-songwriter, doesn't he still have a say as to how the songs are licensed? And doesn't Plant still have a vote on the creation and marketing of "new" Zeppelin releases (e.g. the DVD, BBC Sessions, etc.)? I seem to remember him being listed on the UK's "rich list," with a net worth in the neighborhood of Page's and Jones', which suggests to me he continues to get money from the sale of Zeppelin music rather than just his solo work. I understand that concert performances can bring in as much or more for musicians than sales of their old records, but I find it hard to believe Plant has relinquished all financial stake in the Led Zeppelin brand.

Perhaps Steve could clarify the distinctions between the various rights artists can own (or sell).

George, he ONLY sold his right to receive royalties on sales of Led Zeppelin's back catalog. He retained his

publishing rights as co-writer and retained rights concerning the creation and marketing of new releases.

[SteveAJones]

Yes, but accepting that may take much of the life blood from this site. So much of what goes on on this site is speculation on Led Zeppelin's future. This speculation is great PR for Led Zeppelin sales.

I think you meant "forum" instead of "site" as the majority of the "site" does not present speculation.

[GeorgeC]

George, he ONLY sold his right to receive royalties on sales of Led Zeppelin's back catalog. He retained his

publishing rights as co-writer and retained rights concerning the creation and marketing of new releases.

Thanks for the clarification Steve. I'm assuming "new" releases of Zeppelin songs (compilations, video collections, live material, etc.) continue to earn money for Plant, while ongoing sales of the original albums don't. Either way, I'm sure he's quite comfortable. From what I've heard, over the long term songwriting is more lucrative than recording anyway, which is why Paul McCartney is richer than Ringo Starr and Mick Jagger richer than Charlie Watts. The situation is a reminder that for all the power, mystery, and hammer of the gods, rock 'n roll is still a business.

[DBJ]

You can look at it another way. It took Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones much longer to get back into making music than it did Robert. You could say they took the loss of Bonham much harder in terms of them being willing to return to performing. I don't think there is much truth to that though.

According to Robert himself he did not know how to properly make a solo album on his own. (He enlisted the help of Phil Colins and relied heavily on the opinion of Page and Jones). This suggests to me he was very happy where he was with Zeppelin.

If we Look through the years we see Plant very eager to reform Zeppelin, but chickens out at the last minute.

What we do see Plant doing is somehow trying to Create a Zeppelinless Led Zeppelin. ( The Honey Drippers, the 1988 collaborations with Page, The 1994-1998 collaboration with Page.

I think that Robert Plant's ultimate desire would be to form a band with Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, and perhaps Jason Bonham, and perform some Led Zeppelin songs ( Stairway to heaven most likely no included) of their choosing, as well as some on going new material. Their would be no speculation, and no comparison to the previous group.

So the entity that is Led Zeppelin, gets in the way of Led Zeppelin (the 3 original members plus Jason Bonham) getting back together,

I think that this is something that Plant has always faced. The Legacy ( the expectation, and the hoopla) gets in the way.

In terms of making money off Zeppelin, The Band ( the whole Band Plant included) have been offered large fractions of a $ Billion Dollars, just to sponsor a full fledged Led Zeppelin tour multiple times. (not to mention what they would make off ticket sales plus merchandise.) The fact that he might not be getting royalties off album sales is not a valid reason to discourage him.

not to mention besides album sales, I sure a lot of Zeppelin's current income comes from publishing royalties from air play. Every time you hear a Zeppelin tune on TV or the Radio, a few cents goes their way. ( how many classic Rock Station around the world are there?)

[SteveAJones]

You can look at it another way. It took Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones much longer to get back into making music than it did Robert. You could say they took the loss of Bonham much harder in terms of them being willing to return to performing. I don't think there is much truth to that though.

Jimmy was actually the first to return to studio work, in February 1981. Page & Plant's frst public performances were just a day apart. March 9th 1981 for Robert at the Wine Bar in Stourbridge with Robbie Blunt, Ricky Cool and members of the Rialtos. The next day Jimmy joined Jeff Beck for an encore of 'I'm Down' at the Hammersmith Odeon. JPJs first post-Zeppelin public performance was with Robert Plant for an encore of 'Little Sister' at the Colston Hall in Bristol on December 4th 1983, but he made a few public appearances at concerts over the previous two years, had begun to experiment in his home studio with a Chapman Stick, taught electronic composition at Dartington College of Arts

near his home in Devon and got involved in the Paul McCartney film 'Give My Regards to Broad Street'. Anyway, despite being the most active of the three, there can be no question Robert Plant took the loss hardest, for he and Bonham were the closest.

[zooma]

You can look at it another way. It took Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones much longer to get back into making music than it did Robert. You could say they took the loss of Bonham much harder in terms of them being willing to return to performing. I don't think there is much truth to that though.

According to Robert himself he did not know how to properly make a solo album on his own. (He enlisted the help of Phil Colins and relied heavily on the opinion of Page and Jones). This suggests to me he was very happy where he was with Zeppelin.

If we Look through the years we see Plant very eager to reform Zeppelin, but chickens out at the last minute.

What we do see Plant doing is somehow trying to Create a Zeppelinless Led Zeppelin. ( The Honey Drippers, the 1988 collaborations with Page, The 1994-1998 collaboration with Page.

I think that Robert Plant's ultimate desire would be to form a band with Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones, and perhaps Jason Bonham, and perform some Led Zeppelin songs ( Stairway to heaven most likely no included) of their choosing, as well as some on going new material. Their would be no speculation, and no comparison to the previous group.

So the entity that is Led Zeppelin, gets in the way of Led Zeppelin (the 3 original members plus Jason Bonham) getting back together,

I think that this is something that Plant has always faced. The Legacy ( the expectation, and the hoopla) gets in the way.

In terms of making money off Zeppelin, The Band ( the whole Band Plant included) have been offered large fractions of a $ Billion Dollars, just to sponsor a full fledged Led Zeppelin tour multiple times. (not to mention what they would make off ticket sales plus merchandise.) The fact that he might not be getting royalties off album sales is not a valid reason to discourage him.

not to mention besides album sales, I sure a lot of Zeppelin's current income comes from publishing royalties from air play. Every time you hear a Zeppelin tune on TV or the Radio, a few cents goes their way. ( how many classic Rock Station around the world are there?)

DBJ, I have to disagree with you on a number of points. Jimmy was making the Death Wish 2 soundtrack and Coda the same year Robert was working on Pictures at Eleven. JPJ was I believe, working at a Cathederal around this time. I don't think it's fair to say one of them took Bonham's loss any harder than Robert. They were friends from before Zeppelin was ever conceived. Bonham's loss was crushing for all of them. I'll leave it at that.

While I'm sure Robert was happy in Zeppelin I think he was happy and excited to be started on a solo career too. He valued Jimmy's opinion and wanted his old partners stamp of approval so to speak. I don't know that he ever approached Jones or cared what he thought at that point.

I don't really know what a zeppelinless zeppelin is. Robert is 1/4 of the band so of course their will be some similarities with his solo work. I think albums like Shaken and Stirred prove he isn't trying to rely on past formulas. Do you really think Robert is eager to reform Zeppelin, and his secret desire is to play with his old bandmates (and Jason)? Why then did he not invite JPJ to Unplugged, or walk away from the last leg of the Clarksdale tour. My guess is that Robert is extremely proud of all his work and likes to keep evolving and changing things up when the mood suits him.

[zooma]

Jimmy was actually the first to return to studio work, in February 1981. Page & Plant's frst public performances were just a day apart. March 9th 1981 for Robert at the Wine Bar in Stourbridge with Robbie Blunt, Ricky Cool and members of the Rialtos. The next day Jimmy joined Jeff Beck for an encore of 'I'm Down' at the Hammersmith Odeon. JPJs first post-Zeppelin public performance was with Robert Plant for an encore of 'Little Sister' at the Colston Hall in Bristol on December 4th 1983, but he made a few public appearances at concerts over the previous two years, had begun to experiment in his home studio with a Chapman Stick, taught electronic composition at Dartington College of Arts

near his home in Devon and got involved in the Paul McCartney film 'Give My Regards to Broad Street'. Anyway, despite being the most active of the three, there can be no question Robert Plant took the loss hardest, for he and Bonham were the closest.

I stand corrected in my previous post about JPJ playing in a cathederal after Zep. That flirtation was much earlier. thanks for setting my memory straight.

[DBJ]

DBJ, I have to disagree with you on a number of points. Jimmy was making the Death Wish 2 soundtrack and Coda the same year Robert was working on Pictures at Eleven. JPJ was I believe, working at a Cathederal around this time. I don't think it's fair to say one of them took Bonham's loss any harder than Robert. They were friends from before Zeppelin was ever conceived. Bonham's loss was crushing for all of them. I'll leave it at that.

While I'm sure Robert was happy in Zeppelin I think he was happy and excited to be started on a solo career too. He valued Jimmy's opinion and wanted his old partners stamp of approval so to speak. I don't know that he ever approached Jones or cared what he thought at that point.

I don't really know what a zeppelinless zeppelin is. Robert is 1/4 of the band so of course their will be some similarities with his solo work. I think albums like Shaken and Stirred prove he isn't trying to rely on past formulas. Do you really think Robert is eager to reform Zeppelin, and his secret desire is to play with his old bandmates (and Jason)? Why then did he not invite JPJ to Unplugged, or walk away from the last leg of the Clarksdale tour. My guess is that Robert is extremely proud of all his work and likes to keep evolving and changing things up when the mood suits him.

In terms of who was hit the hardest, my point was that outward appearances can be deceiving. Thus the last line of the first paragraph. "I don't think there is much truth to that though."

A Zeppelinless Led Zeppelin is when Plant tries to reform Led Zeppelin or a part of it without calling it Led Zeppelin. ( Unledded)

When Plant took his first solo project to Page he said it was good, Jones said he Thought Plant could do better. That and a desire to form a Zeppelinless Zeppelin ( ie. a band that is as close as you can get to Led Zeppelin without calling it Led Zeppelin) is why Jones was not invited to be in Unledded.

Plant walked away from the Clarksdale project because the album only went Gold, and by the response the crowd gave to the new material. ( Many in attendance at the shows I went to didn't even buy the album). Plus I remember at the time at a show I was at, I had a decent seat and after they finished one of the new songs Plant kinda surveyed the audience that hadn't even really been paying attention to the song, I could tell then by the look on his face that it was over.

[eternal light]

I think that Robert Plant does what seems most relevant for the here and now.

But Led Zeppelin is a part of him, so it is natural for him to express that musical element. He is not restricted to that though. He looks for the most vibrant expression of the moment.

[zooma]

In terms of who was hit the hardest, my point was that outward appearances can be deceiving. Thus the last line of the first paragraph. "I don't think there is much truth to that though."

A Zeppelinless Led Zeppelin is when Plant tries to reform Led Zeppelin or a part of it without calling it Led Zeppelin. ( Unledded)

When Plant took his first solo project to Page he said it was good, Jones said he Thought Plant could do better. That and a desire to form a Zeppelinless Zeppelin ( ie. a band that is as close as you can get to Led Zeppelin without calling it Led Zeppelin) is why Jones was not invited to be in Unledded.

Plant walked away from the Clarksdale project because the album only went Gold, and by the response the crowd gave to the new material. ( Many in attendance at the shows I went to didn't even buy the album). Plus I remember at the time at a show I was at, I had a decent seat and after they finished one of the new songs Plant kinda surveyed the audience that hadn't even really been paying attention to the song, I could tell then by the look on his face that it was over.

I don't remember Jones saying Plant could do better after Pictures at Eleven was released. The only comment I remember from JPJ about Plant was after he jammed with him at one point early on and told Page if he was to to the same go on after a particular song (don't remember which one) because "it's all downhill from there".

i agree the Clarksdale material was not well received at the show I saw either. The "fans" were more interested in getting back in the beer line or headed to the bathroom. I still disagree that Plant has ever tried to recreate Zeppelin at any point in his solo career.

[dazedcat]

The one and only true Led Zeppelin died with John Bonham in 1980. Why can't people just accept that fact.

I think the older fans have and mostly have moved on with life. It's the younger fans who missed it all the first time who can't let it go.

I was happy for the O2 show, one last blast, a big "thank you" and farewell. Robert Plant has had a brilliant solo career and doesn't need to relive old glory. His best mate died and he put it all to rest.

Good for Percy.

Regards;

[Gospel Zone]

I think you meant "forum" instead of "site" as the majority of the "site" does not present speculation.

Yes, the forum is what I was referring to, as far the speculation goes.

BTW: If Robert ever does decide to tour with Led Zeppelin, I hope he decides to shampoo his hair and shave also.

[georgio]

Has anyone considered that Plant might actually be bored of Led Zeppelin? And the calls for reformation? I think he honestly is. He probably doesn't mind the occasional jam, but doing a full scale reunion is simply of no interest. And I respect that.

[ninelives]

Has anyone considered that Plant might actually be bored of Led Zeppelin? And the calls for reformation? I think he honestly is. He probably doesn't mind the occasional jam, but doing a full scale reunion is simply of no interest. And I respect that.

I don't know if I'd use the word bored. My feeling is he's all about moving forward in new directions. Zep has been done and it's not that he doesn't embrace his work with them, but he's not interested in rehashing the past with Zep any more than reforming any of his other bands. It's not a negative thing IMO either. I respect the fact he wants to try new ground.

Though I'm sure he's tired of being asked about it by the media.

[glicine]

Somehow I'm thinking about what John Lennon once said when asked why he would not agree to a reunion of the Beatles. He said "What do you think I'm ashamed or embarrassed of what we accomplished as the Beatles? No way! But it's like your childhood: there were parts that you loved and parts you didn't love. But you find yourself in a different time and you want to keep moving forward, not reliving what you've already done."

And I think it can be close to how Robert Plant feels about Zeppelin.

[SteveAJones]

Another post anywhere on how Robert Plant feels about Led Zeppelin and I'm throwing myself out the fucking window

[Deborah J]

Another post anywhere on how Robert Plant feels about Led Zeppelin and I'm throwing myself out the fucking window

I agree, please go to some of the interviews on the Led Zeppelin related videos. He respects the legacy...enough said

[glicine]

Another post anywhere on how Robert Plant feels about Led Zeppelin and I'm throwing myself out the fucking window

Well I'm afraid you are not gonna have enough windows.

[SteveAJones]

Well I'm afraid you are not gonna have enough windows.

...Windows '95...Windows '98...Windows NT...Vista...the speculation on his feelings continues...

[georgio]

I don't know if I'd use the word bored. My feeling is he's all about moving forward in new directions. Zep has been done and it's not that he doesn't embrace his work with them, but he's not interested in rehashing the past with Zep any more than reforming any of his other bands. It's not a negative thing IMO either. I respect the fact he wants to try new ground.

Though I'm sure he's tired of being asked about it by the media.

I get the feeling it's kinda like being asked about your ex-girlfriend or ex-wife...but hey, this IS a Led Zeppelin forum anyway...

[dan67]

Are you serious by comparing your family losing your pet cat(my condolence here anyway) to Led Zeppelin losing their drummer and Robert losing his best friend?

And about the Unledded project: Robert Plant wanted to set up a collaboration with Jimmy Page but without being Led Zeppelin, Jimmy said ok and they went with John Paul Jones. Thus, they made the decision together and they were in agreement.

And at last, it doesn't matter what you, or the other fans think, the history is made and no one can change it now.

The comparison was not made to the degree of loss but rather family/personal relationships.

There's an article about Bonzo in Guitar World February 2006 that should get my point across perhaps better than I stated. It backs up the whole reason behind my posting of the thread. Things were not all hunky dorry in Zep land after '75. And it seems as if the problems weighed most heavily on Plant. It suggests that Robert may have been close to quitting Zep after his son died. At any rate, I think the seeds were there to leave Zep. And if Bonham hadn't passed those seeds may have come to fruition shortly thereafter anyways.

Jimmy does say that Bonham is irreplaceable but in a 1990 interview he said he would do Zeppelin again if it was done properly.(He doesn't say-no Bonham no Zeppelin). I think its hard for Jimmy to put Zeppelin behind him. When you think of the Zeppelin catalog; its just an awesome body of work for a guitarist--simply classic songs, riffs, and solos--plus; those songs were specifically composed for Robert's vocal qualities. So, even though he agreed to disband Zep; I'm sure he was also sad to see Robert go as well.

I didn't mean to knock Robert or blame him. Disbanding Zep was probably a wise and healthy decision. It could've been Jimmy that passed on instead of or as well as Bonham. The atmosphere that was once fun had perhaps become decadent and disturbing.

At any rate, if Bonham had lived I still don't think Zeppelin would've made it intact out of the 1980s for myriad reasons.

Ok I think I'm done.

[SteveAJones]

The comparison was not made to the degree of loss but rather family/personal relationships.

There's an article about Bonzo in Guitar World February 2006 that should get my point across perhaps better than I stated. It backs up the whole reason behind my posting of the thread. Things were not all hunky dorry in Zep land after '75. And it seems as if the problems weighed most heavily on Plant. It suggests that Robert may have been close to quitting Zep after his son died. At any rate, I think the seeds were there to leave Zep. And if Bonham hadn't passed those seeds may have come to fruition shortly thereafter anyways. Jimmy does say that Bonham is irreplaceable but in a 1990 interview he said he would do Zeppelin again if it was done properly. (He doesn't say-no Bonham no Zeppelin). I think its hard for Jimmy to put Zeppelin behind him. When you think of the Zeppelin catalog; its just an awesome body of work for a guitarist--simply classic songs, riffs, and solos--plus; those songs were specifically composed for Robert's vocal qualities. So, even though he agreed to disband Zep; I'm sure he was also sad to see Robert go as well. I didn't mean to knock Robert or blame him. Disbanding Zep was probably a wise and healthy decision. It could've been Jimmy that passed on instead of or as well as Bonham. The atmosphere that was once fun had perhaps become decadent and disturbing. At any rate, if Bonham had lived I still don't think Zeppelin would've made it intact out of the 1980s for myriad reasons.

Ok I think I'm done.

The speculation in this post is just that, but there's nothing in it I disagree with.

[bigstickbonzo]

I can remember directly taking place in discussions about "what if" Bonzo hadn't passed and alot of people, myself on the fence, said they could easily have seen Jimmy going if Bonzo hadn't when he did.

I know it's been eluded Plant briefly contemplated quitting the band and becoming a school teacher in the months following his son's death.

I think, universally, music aside, Zeppelin had become so big by 1977 none of them had any control over the monster anymore. The fun they seemed to have, on stage, backstage and what-not was obviously no longer what it once was for them (by their own accounts). I know Page said he didn't know how to behave other than what people expected of him, so he tried to live up to the hype. I think that's why the band was never the same after 1973, other reasons aside, they just became too big for even themselves to firmly grasp what Led Zeppelin meant to everyone else.

[Yucko]

In terms of who was hit the hardest, my point was that outward appearances can be deceiving. Thus the last line of the first paragraph. "I don't think there is much truth to that though."

A Zeppelinless Led Zeppelin is when Plant tries to reform Led Zeppelin or a part of it without calling it Led Zeppelin. ( Unledded)

When Plant took his first solo project to Page he said it was good, Jones said he Thought Plant could do better. That and a desire to form a Zeppelinless Zeppelin ( ie. a band that is as close as you can get to Led Zeppelin without calling it Led Zeppelin) is why Jones was not invited to be in Unledded.

Plant walked away from the Clarksdale project because the album only went Gold, and by the response the crowd gave to the new material. ( Many in attendance at the shows I went to didn't even buy the album). Plus I remember at the time at a show I was at, I had a decent seat and after they finished one of the new songs Plant kinda surveyed the audience that hadn't even really been paying attention to the song, I could tell then by the look on his face that it was over.

I have heard, and always thought that Plant walked away from P/P cause of Jimmy's drinking at the time

[eternal light]

I have heard, and always thought that Plant walked away from P/P cause of Jimmy's drinking at the time

Jimmy Page reminds me of Jerry Garcia in some ways.