LedZeppfan77 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 http://www.13wham.com/default.aspx Updates from Police coming soon. This is front news on CNN and it happened in my area. Miles from me. Two firefighters dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecube Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Arm the firefighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percys_Plant Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Hear, hear, hecube! Because you never know when you're gonna need to whip it out while putting out a fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecube Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Hear, hear, hecube! Because you never know when you're gonna need to whip it out while putting out a fire. By the way, let me congratulate you on using the correct spelling of "Hear" in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeC Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Apologies for a longish post about gun control and its opponents: I'll start off with a perfectly plausible scenario. A homeowner hears a burglar snooping around his house in the middle of the night. He calls 911, the police arrive, and the suspect is apprehended. Turns out they've caught a serial offender. The guy goes to trial, is found guilty, and gets a sentence of let's say ten years in light of his previous record. Dude does time in state prison. Question: because the entire process of investigation, arrest, conviction and incarceration is served by various branches of government (police, courts, jail), is the homeowner therefore a socialist? Unfortunately, by the logic of pro-gun American conservatives, the answer is yes. Why didn't he shoot the burglar with the firearm he's constitutionally allowed to own and use? they'd ask. Even after the Sandy Hook massacre, the US right wing is trying to frame the debate on gun laws as one of liberty versus coercion, individual freedom versus state control. This is the level to which American conservatives have sunk. I can hear the responses: "Mind your communist business." "Shut your liberal trap." "Don't tread on me." "These colors don't run." Whatever. The Tea Party right has become an enclave of knee-jerk xenophobia and patriotic orthodoxy that Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and maybe even Ronald Reagan would hardly recognize as "conservative." Conservative thinkers of the 1970s and 1980s who inspired the Republican revival were intellectuals like Norman Podhoretz and Allan Bloom - smart, articulate men who offered thoughtful criticisms of liberal policies and culture. Today their original ideas have become the rehearsed invective of Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, which is in turn parroted by the NRA/NASCAR demographic. Twenty years ago, conservatives made constructive contributions to US political discourse. Not now. Now the American right is dominated by people who believe all foreigners are jealous collectivists, blame the near-collapse of the US economy in 2008 on food-stamp scam artists, and who see legal restrictions on high-powered weaponry as infringements of their personal rights. Now the right is dominated by people blind to the erosion of their own middle class, deaf to the rise of China and India, and unaware of how their rage has been cynically stoked by the billionaire capitalists they so revere. They exhibit a disturbing combination of ignorance, paranoia, and blood-lust. Their frequent invocation of homosexual prison rape as a metaphor for US power ("Hey Canada, we'll make you our bitch") adds an even creepier dimension to their rhetoric. This is no longer a populist movement but a very loud and very degraded fringe. Let it be said that the US left has marginalized itself too, in ways that mirror the deterioration of the right. After 9/11, some progressives insisted the disaster was both an inside job perpetrated by the Bush administration, and that America had it coming anyway. Today conservatives claim that the federal government runs both a useless bureaucracy and a ruthless police state. The left used to say that George W. Bush was a secret Christian fascist who stole the elections of 2000 and 2004; today the right says that Barack Obama is a secret Muslim socialist who wasn't born in the country. For both extremes, apocalyptic language and unhinged conspiracy theories have replaced reasoned, civil arguments. Let it also be said that the US Constitution is one of the great documents of modern political philosophy, and that the US democratic tradition has for decades been an inspiration to the rest of the planet. The dynamic American economy was the engine of global prosperity through most of the Twentieth Century, and American armed might helped win two World Wars and the Cold War (one of the Tea Partiers' many illusions, raised as they are on Call of Duty, is that America won singlehandedly). Americans can be proud of their history. But outsiders like myself are troubled by the unrepentant demagoguery of today's US right, and we are not "anti-American." We admire much in American life and governance. We just hate to see how the murder of school children has become an occasion for American conservatives to lecture us on their national greatness, on the inferiority of other countries, and on the virtues of turning the land of the free into a lockdown society where civilians are indistinguishable from soldiers. There is nothing to admire in a "freedom" that tolerates, even glorifies, the highest rate of armed violence in the developed world. Happily, the recent presidential election has demonstated that the angry white males who embarrass US conservatism (and these threads) are a shrinking bloc of voters whose influence is in terminal decline. While they spout the stale slogans of Fox News and deride anyone to the left of Donald Trump as a radical Marxist terrorist appeaser, ordinary Americans are moving ahead with a better agenda for their country - one which doesn't seriously maintain that the bullet-riddled bodies of twenty little kids in Newton Connecticut is a consequence of too few rather than too many guns in the United States of America. Zeppelin rules. Merry Christmas. Peace on earth, good will toward men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 Arm the firefighters. Amen. The town of Webster is next to a town called Irondequoit (named after Indians of the area), and both are on Lake Ontario. This happened near a place known as "Sea Breeze" where there are local restaurants and of course the town volunteers responded to this fire. Details are very slow to come out. Sorry I posted at the same time as above. So please bump this thread you above me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhw Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Lz77.... I'm in Fairport. Sad news, indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledded1 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Sad and crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Apologies for a longish post about gun control and its opponents: I'll start off with a perfectly plausible scenario. A homeowner hears a burglar snooping around his house in the middle of the night. He calls 911, the police arrive, and the suspect is apprehended. Turns out they've caught a serial offender. The guy goes to trial, is found guilty, and gets a sentence of let's say ten years in light of his previous record. Dude does time in state prison. Question: because the entire process of investigation, arrest, conviction and incarceration is served by various branches of government (police, courts, jail), is the homeowner therefore a socialist? Unfortunately, by the logic of pro-gun American conservatives, the answer is yes. Why didn't he shoot the burglar with the firearm he's constitutionally allowed to own and use? they'd ask. Even after the Sandy Hook massacre, the US right wing is trying to frame the debate on gun laws as one of liberty versus coercion, individual freedom versus state control. This is the level to which American conservatives have sunk. I can hear the responses: "Mind your communist business." "Shut your liberal trap." "Don't tread on me." "These colors don't run." Whatever. The Tea Party right has become an enclave of knee-jerk xenophobia and patriotic orthodoxy that Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and maybe even Ronald Reagan would hardly recognize as "conservative." Conservative thinkers of the 1970s and 1980s who inspired the Republican revival were intellectuals like Norman Podhoretz and Allan Bloom - smart, articulate men who offered thoughtful criticisms of liberal policies and culture. Today their original ideas have become the rehearsed invective of Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, which is in turn parroted by the NRA/NASCAR demographic. Twenty years ago, conservatives made constructive contributions to US political discourse. Not now. Now the American right is dominated by people who believe all foreigners are jealous collectivists, blame the near-collapse of the US economy in 2008 on food-stamp scam artists, and who see legal restrictions on high-powered weaponry as infringements of their personal rights. Now the right is dominated by people blind to the erosion of their own middle class, deaf to the rise of China and India, and unaware of how their rage has been cynically stoked by the billionaire capitalists they so revere. They exhibit a disturbing combination of ignorance, paranoia, and blood-lust. Their frequent invocation of homosexual prison rape as a metaphor for US power ("Hey Canada, we'll make you our bitch") adds an even creepier dimension to their rhetoric. This is no longer a populist movement but a very loud and very degraded fringe. Let it be said that the US left has marginalized itself too, in ways that mirror the deterioration of the right. After 9/11, some progressives insisted the disaster was both an inside job perpetrated by the Bush administration, and that America had it coming anyway. Today conservatives claim that the federal government runs both a useless bureaucracy and a ruthless police state. The left used to say that George W. Bush was a secret Christian fascist who stole the elections of 2000 and 2004; today the right says that Barack Obama is a secret Muslim socialist who wasn't born in the country. For both extremes, apocalyptic language and unhinged conspiracy theories have replaced reasoned, civil arguments. Let it also be said that the US Constitution is one of the great documents of modern political philosophy, and that the US democratic tradition has for decades been an inspiration to the rest of the planet. The dynamic American economy was the engine of global prosperity through most of the Twentieth Century, and American armed might helped win two World Wars and the Cold War (one of the Tea Partiers' many illusions, raised as they are on Call of Duty, is that America won singlehandedly). Americans can be proud of their history. But outsiders like myself are troubled by the unrepentant demagoguery of today's US right, and we are not "anti-American." We admire much in American life and governance. We just hate to see how the murder of school children has become an occasion for American conservatives to lecture us on their national greatness, on the inferiority of other countries, and on the virtues of turning the land of the free into a lockdown society where civilians are indistinguishable from soldiers. There is nothing to admire in a "freedom" that tolerates, even glorifies, the highest rate of armed violence in the developed world. Happily, the recent presidential election has demonstated that the angry white males who embarrass US conservatism (and these threads) are a shrinking bloc of voters whose influence is in terminal decline. While they spout the stale slogans of Fox News and deride anyone to the left of Donald Trump as a radical Marxist terrorist appeaser, ordinary Americans are moving ahead with a better agenda for their country - one which doesn't seriously maintain that the bullet-riddled bodies of twenty little kids in Newton Connecticut is a consequence of too few rather than too many guns in the United States of America. Zeppelin rules. Merry Christmas. Peace on earth, good will toward men. Hear, hear George! My plaudits to you for taking the time out of your Christmas to coordinate your thoughts into such a cogent and well-written post. I'm waiting until after the holidays before I even give the threads you reference a second's thought. I'm not spoiling my Christmas over some knuckle-draggers. Hecube probably was joking, but I guarantee that "Arm the Firefighters!" will actually be taken seriously as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Oh boy,.... One of the dead FF is also a cop. Thoughts and prayers to the families,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 terrible news. the world is such a frightening place sometimes. i feel for the families. those poor firefighters - trying to do good, and look what happens. so, so sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Another shooting where yet again the gunman took his own life. Another deranged psycho idiot with a gun. Shocking news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Bash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul carruthers Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Why these psychos just don't do the world a favor and bump themselves off without dragging down innocent people with them is beyond me. Just senseless and I got a feeling this is just going to add more fire to the gun control debate. Oh joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 So shootings are only senseless when the victims are innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Answer is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebk Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Answer is? 42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leather Apron Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Apologies for a longish post about gun control and its opponents: I'll start off with a perfectly plausible scenario. A homeowner hears a burglar snooping around his house in the middle of the night. He calls 911, the police arrive, and the suspect is apprehended. Turns out they've caught a serial offender. The guy goes to trial, is found guilty, and gets a sentence of let's say ten years in light of his previous record. Dude does time in state prison. Question: because the entire process of investigation, arrest, conviction and incarceration is served by various branches of government (police, courts, jail), is the homeowner therefore a socialist? Unfortunately, by the logic of pro-gun American conservatives, the answer is yes. Why didn't he shoot the burglar with the firearm he's constitutionally allowed to own and use? they'd ask. Even after the Sandy Hook massacre, the US right wing is trying to frame the debate on gun laws as one of liberty versus coercion, individual freedom versus state control. This is the level to which American conservatives have sunk. I can hear the responses: "Mind your communist business." "Shut your liberal trap." "Don't tread on me." "These colors don't run." Whatever. The Tea Party right has become an enclave of knee-jerk xenophobia and patriotic orthodoxy that Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and maybe even Ronald Reagan would hardly recognize as "conservative." Conservative thinkers of the 1970s and 1980s who inspired the Republican revival were intellectuals like Norman Podhoretz and Allan Bloom - smart, articulate men who offered thoughtful criticisms of liberal policies and culture. Today their original ideas have become the rehearsed invective of Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, which is in turn parroted by the NRA/NASCAR demographic. Twenty years ago, conservatives made constructive contributions to US political discourse. Not now. Now the American right is dominated by people who believe all foreigners are jealous collectivists, blame the near-collapse of the US economy in 2008 on food-stamp scam artists, and who see legal restrictions on high-powered weaponry as infringements of their personal rights. Now the right is dominated by people blind to the erosion of their own middle class, deaf to the rise of China and India, and unaware of how their rage has been cynically stoked by the billionaire capitalists they so revere. They exhibit a disturbing combination of ignorance, paranoia, and blood-lust. Their frequent invocation of homosexual prison rape as a metaphor for US power ("Hey Canada, we'll make you our bitch") adds an even creepier dimension to their rhetoric. This is no longer a populist movement but a very loud and very degraded fringe. Let it be said that the US left has marginalized itself too, in ways that mirror the deterioration of the right. After 9/11, some progressives insisted the disaster was both an inside job perpetrated by the Bush administration, and that America had it coming anyway. Today conservatives claim that the federal government runs both a useless bureaucracy and a ruthless police state. The left used to say that George W. Bush was a secret Christian fascist who stole the elections of 2000 and 2004; today the right says that Barack Obama is a secret Muslim socialist who wasn't born in the country. For both extremes, apocalyptic language and unhinged conspiracy theories have replaced reasoned, civil arguments. Let it also be said that the US Constitution is one of the great documents of modern political philosophy, and that the US democratic tradition has for decades been an inspiration to the rest of the planet. The dynamic American economy was the engine of global prosperity through most of the Twentieth Century, and American armed might helped win two World Wars and the Cold War (one of the Tea Partiers' many illusions, raised as they are on Call of Duty, is that America won singlehandedly). Americans can be proud of their history. But outsiders like myself are troubled by the unrepentant demagoguery of today's US right, and we are not "anti-American." We admire much in American life and governance. We just hate to see how the murder of school children has become an occasion for American conservatives to lecture us on their national greatness, on the inferiority of other countries, and on the virtues of turning the land of the free into a lockdown society where civilians are indistinguishable from soldiers. There is nothing to admire in a "freedom" that tolerates, even glorifies, the highest rate of armed violence in the developed world. Happily, the recent presidential election has demonstated that the angry white males who embarrass US conservatism (and these threads) are a shrinking bloc of voters whose influence is in terminal decline. While they spout the stale slogans of Fox News and deride anyone to the left of Donald Trump as a radical Marxist terrorist appeaser, ordinary Americans are moving ahead with a better agenda for their country - one which doesn't seriously maintain that the bullet-riddled bodies of twenty little kids in Newton Connecticut is a consequence of too few rather than too many guns in the United States of America. Zeppelin rules. Merry Christmas. Peace on earth, good will toward men. I read your entire post but I was waiting for the part where you pointed out where the the Democratic party (the left) is not the party of Harry Truman, JFK of even the nutty but sincere Jimmy Carter. With the left moving further and further away from SANITY and attempting to create and ever increasing nanny state devoid of individual rights and liberty.... No wonder the right has moved to where it has be. Not far enough in my view. Your statement if full of typical liberal hypocrisy. Merry Christmas from, Another "angry white male" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 How did an ex-con get a weapon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledded1 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 How did an ex-con get a weapon? did he not buy it from you? The joys of so many guns being available due to your beloved rights that's where. He gave a couple of families an unexpected Christmas didn't he? But as long as he had the right to bear those arms that's all that matters. Ex con or not. You must feel so proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 did he not buy it from you? The joys of so many guns being available due to your beloved rights that's where. He gave a couple of families an unexpected Christmas didn't he? But as long as he had the right to bear those arms that's all that matters. Ex con or not. You must feel so proud. Nope, shit head. You live here? Nope. Get a new hobby,shit head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Answer is? That boy...I say, he makes more noise than a skeleton on a tin roof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Shep Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Nope, shit head. You live here? Nope. Get a new hobby,shit head. Yap-yap-yap, keep that mouth flappin' and do no listenin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Yap-yap-yap, keep that mouth flappin' and do no listenin'. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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