005 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Was the song a radio favorite in the 70s as it seems to be now*? If so, it does seem odd they never played it live. When I was younger, I used to think that if you went to see a band, the songs were just chosen in the moment by the band, and the following stop on the tour might have a completely different song list. I still kinda wish live music worked that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppy668 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Was the song a radio favorite in the 70s as it seems to be now*? If so, it does seem odd they never played it live. When I was younger, I used to think that if you went to see a band, the songs were just chosen in the moment by the band, and the following stop on the tour might have a completely different song list. I still kinda wish live music worked that way. A lot of bands switch playlists every show. Pearl Jam makes a regular habit of doing this as does Dave Matthews and Bruce Springsteen. It is a shame Led Zeppelin fell under the spell of repetition every night. I do believe had they been more willing to switch up their set, at least every other night, they wouldn't have sounded as bored at times (especially in the later years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I am not a big fan of DM either, but I would not call it shit. The music and arrangement of the song I really love, but Plant's lyrics are just inane and that Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh part makes me want to bury my head in a fat ladies ass. Now that is just my opinion. I think if the lyrics were a bit different and Robert sang it differently it would have been great. Than again, the song was supposed to be a parody of sorts and thus in that vein it succeeds, either way, I can only listed to Weird Al once in a blue moon. If I heard Weird Al on the radio all the time I would shoot myself. So, to the new guy, it's ok to say you don't like a particular song, but it is uncool to downright call it shit since that statement is absolute rather than subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharrison Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Ha ha ,I at least had the decency to reply to you over this matter in private but you had to bring it here and now you look and sound like a fool .I aint going nowhere.why am I a self righteous,obnoxious prick?Your right on one thing though I do have nothing positive to contribute to this discussion,because I DONT LIKE THE CHUFFIN SONG .ner, ner.And if your ever in the UK come along and tell me to go fuck myself to my face you silly billy.Going off to fuck myself now. Blah blah blah blah blah ...go fuck yerself, buddy ...it's painfully obvious that you have absolutely NOTHING positive to contribute to this discussion, or this forum, for that matter. I don't give a fuck if you did see the band at Earls Court or whatever other Zeppelin experiences you claim to have had. I don't give a fuck if you have been a long time lurker; you act like a newbie and you post like a goddamn newbie. I'm not here to be respected, asshole, I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to make positive contributions to the Zeppelin community, by sharing recordings, passing along knowledge and maybe -just maybe- being able to come across shows I've been searching for for years. It's self righteous, obnoxious pricks like you that make me wonder why the fuck I have anything to do with this community at all, and it's also tossers like you that give the Zeppelin community such a bad reputation. So I repeat: go fuck yerself, newbie. Find another fuckin' forum to troll in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharrison Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Did you not read my apology for my comments?obviously not ,jaysus what is it with you lot.are you gonna be another nutcocker to me? So, to the new guy, it's ok to say you don't like a particular song, but it is uncool to downright call it shit since that statement is absolute rather than subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelic Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Played way too often on the air here in Canada, definitely on my bottom end of loved zep tunes. No its not shit, stfu, this is a simple tribute song and should not be judged along with stairway, Achilles or any other great songs they wrote. I like the Hot Dog comparison very much, cept Hot Dog isnt force fed on the air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Led Zeppelin didn't play DM live because Bonham hated playing reggae and Jones found it repetitive and boring. It also was probably left out of sets because they believed there was better music to play. For HD, I consider it a different scenario altogether: 1. It catered to their rockabilly roots. Even if it's almost a self parody in some ways, it was a new song. 2. Jones could play keys on it. 3. Robert likely favored singing a song ala Elvis and considering this was 1979-80, his enthusiasm for it trumped all. So we can probably conclude that Led Zeppelin played Hot Dog because they wanted to play it and didn't play D'yer Mak'er because they didn't want to play it. Got it kids? Generally I think you had a shift in the band's focus live in the latter years away from long extended tracks and towards a greater variety of material. In previous years the acoustic set would have offered more of a shift if pace but in the late 70's it wouldn't exactly have been fashionable. As for the track itself I can't say D'yer Mak'er is one of my favourites but still I think its not nearly as bad as a heavy rock group playing reggae could have been. The Crunge has always been the more disappointing track for me because it had potential to be so much more had it retained its live rawness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 To answer why they didn't switch set lists every night, Robert was once quoted as saying that instead of doing different songs, they wanted to go deeper into the songs they played and see how they evolved every night. They did that for their own musical satisfaction. Now we analyze each night with a microscope to see which times their song "evolution" were brilliant and which ones were sloppy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Did you not read my apology for my comments?obviously not ,jaysus what is it with you lot.are you gonna be another nutcocker to me? Just trying to clear the air, sorry if I hurt your feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 tfw I like Hot Dog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrledhed Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 We can't prove this was not done live. It's possible they tried it once in 1973 but the recording is not circulating. Look how many early USA 1973 shows remain unheard. What about the possibility of a rare encore in 1973? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 We can't prove this was not done live. It's possible they tried it once in 1973 but the recording is not circulating. Look how many early USA 1973 shows remain unheard. What about the possibility of a rare encore in 1973? You never know...if there was going to be a time when they'd actually play "D'yer Mak'er" it would have been in '73 I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles J. White Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I love the song and hum it a lot. I also love Hot Dog as well – both great songs! Maybe it was played live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillumpuffer Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 You never know...if there was going to be a time when they'd actually play "D'yer Mak'er" it would have been in '73 I reckon. Not so sure it would have fitted in to the set list the band used at that time (1973). I am trying to think of when it could have been played though? Maybe more than likely 1975 as, as it's has been noted they mixed in a bit of roots into Communication Breakdown at Earls Court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magerogue Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 tfw I like Hot Dog... Hahahaha, ride on! I also love DM and nobody will ever change that... Now throw your stones at us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I like both HD and DM...but lyrically, DM is the weaker of the two. However, subjective opinions of the worth of the song aside, I believe there were performance issues that precluded the addition of "D'yer M'ker" to the setlist. While Jones was a nimble musician and was able to play keyboards and play bass pedals simultaneously, allowing for the performance of many Zep classics such as "No Quarter", "Trampled Underfoot", "Rain Song", "Kashmir" and "SIBLY", "D'yer M'ker" was a song that needed both a real bass and piano. Jones was good but even he couldn't pull off that trick. Why couldn't he have used bass pedals like he usually did, you ask? Because "D'yer M'ker" was a reggae/50s rock n roll pastiche, and for reggae, the bass is most important. You cannot get away with using fake bass. It would've sounded terrible. Since Jones couldn't play bass and piano at the same time on stage, the only way they could have solved their dilemma was by hiring a 5th musician(Ian Stewart?) to play the piano part. But that went against the ethos of Led Zeppelin in concert: just the four of them. So no "D'yer M'ker" in concert. Save for a brief vocal snippet by Plant just before "Black Country Woman" at the 6.23.77 Badgeholders show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Since Jones couldn't play bass and piano at the same time on stage, the only way they could have solved their dilemma was by hiring a 5th musician(Ian Stewart?) to play the piano part. But that went against the ethos of Led Zeppelin in concert: just the four of them. "So we didn't hire Billy Preston..."- Robert Plant, Birmingham 18/5/77 So no "D'yer M'ker" in concert.Save for a brief vocal snippet by Plant just before "Black Country Woman" at the 6.23.77 Badgeholders show. Thank you...I knew he did the teaser at the Badgeholders show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) ^^^ Billy Preston would have been awesome! He brought great energy and pizazz to the Stones shows at the Forum in 1975. And one of the greatest afros in history! Edited August 3, 2013 by Strider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) ^^^ Billy Preston would have been awesome! He brought great energy and pizazz to the Stones shows at the Forum in 1975. And one of the greatest afros in history! IMO Billy Preston arguably stole the show most nights when he was with the Stones the same way he stole the show touring with George Harrison in 1974. Billy was one talented dude for sure (even if I do prefer Nicky Hopkins when it comes to tickling the ivories.) Shit, performing those two solo tunes with the Stones or Harrison was written into Billy's contract, which says a lot about the power the guy wielded for someone who was viewed as a mere sideman. I mean, Bobby Keys has put out a solo record or two, and as integral as he is to the Stones' sound you don't see Bobby playing his solo stuff onstage with them...Billy Preston did. On two whole tours. I always interpreted Plant's "So we didn't hire Billy Preston" remark as a bit of a dig at guys like the Stones or George, who did feel they needed his help onstage...Zeppelin's attitude was always like, "Fuck it! We don't need anybody else!" And, quite frankly, I think in some ways having a second guitarist/keyboardist for live performance could have only benefitted their sound...sometimes Zeppelin sounded very sparse onstage, compared to their immensely layered studio recordings. And, of course, having that fifth guy on stage would have enabled them to perform stuff like, say, "D'yer Mak'er"... Edited August 4, 2013 by Nutrocker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP-IT-UP Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 While I understand your comment about a 2nd guitarist, when that finally did happen (i.e.) with Page and Plant in 1995 (admittedly not Zeppelin, but later), I didn't like the results. Take those performances of TSRTS with Porl Thompson and compare them with the 1998 page / Plant versions of the same song with JUST Jimmy on guitar; I'll take just Jimmy alone anytime. Same with Page and the Black Crowes live; as soon as the novelty of hearing all the guitar parts played live on Ten Years Gone wore off, I'd far rather listen to Page playing by himself with his Tele B-bender on the 1977 tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 as soon as the novelty of hearing all the guitar parts played live on Ten Years Gone wore off, I'd far rather listen to Page playing by himself with his Tele B-bender on the 1977 tour. ...with John Paul Jones playing rhythm guitar on the tripleneck behind him, don't forget...although personally I would have preferred if JPJ had just played bass on "Ten Years Gone" leaving Page as sole guitarist. Why have an acoustic rhythm guitar, there are no acoustic guitars on the studio take, just massive intricately layered electric guitars foreshadowing Page's work on Presence...JPJ on the tripleneck (or 12 string, on the first leg of the '77 tour) seems kinda gratuitous to me on that song- save the acoustic instruments for the acoustic set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) I like both HD and DM...but lyrically, DM is the weaker of the two. However, subjective opinions of the worth of the song aside, I believe there were performance issues that precluded the addition of "D'yer M'ker" to the setlist. While Jones was a nimble musician and was able to play keyboards and play bass pedals simultaneously, allowing for the performance of many Zep classics such as "No Quarter", "Trampled Underfoot", "Rain Song", "Kashmir" and "SIBLY", "D'yer M'ker" was a song that needed both a real bass and piano. Jones was good but even he couldn't pull off that trick. Why couldn't he have used bass pedals like he usually did, you ask? Because "D'yer M'ker" was a reggae/50s rock n roll pastiche, and for reggae, the bass is most important. You cannot get away with using fake bass. It would've sounded terrible. Since Jones couldn't play bass and piano at the same time on stage, the only way they could have solved their dilemma was by hiring a 5th musician(Ian Stewart?) to play the piano part. But that went against the ethos of Led Zeppelin in concert: just the four of them. So no "D'yer M'ker" in concert. Save for a brief vocal snippet by Plant just before "Black Country Woman" at the 6.23.77 Badgeholders show. Plus, the fact that every other song on Houses except The Crunge were performed live at one time or another.. Not crazy about the song either but... I listen to DM whenever it comes on because the drums are recorded so well. Eddie Kramer says he only used 3 mic's. DM has one of the best sounding drums tracks I've ever heard. Edited August 4, 2013 by the chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Plus, the fact that every other song on Houses except The Crunge were performed live at one time or another.. "The Crunge" was played in one form or another on the 1972, '73, and '75 tours. It popped up instrumentally in "Dazed and Confused" in '72 and for a nearly complete take with vocals, check out March 12, 1975 Long Beach. "The Crunge" was frequently used as the bridge between "Whole Lotta Love" and "Black Dog" on the last leg of the 1975 tour. Edited August 4, 2013 by Strider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 "The Crunge" was frequently used as the bridge between "Whole Lotta Love" and "Black Dog" on the last leg of the 1975 tour. I always liked the "Lickin' Stick" ad libs...that whole bit and the "Gallows Pole" codas on the end of "Trampled Under Foot" are a couple of the coolest parts of the later '75 shows for me. And, of course "Woodstock" during "Dazed and Confused". So they only did seven out of ten Houses Of The Holy tracks live, looks like. They played the entire fourth album...only two out of seven for Presence, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I always liked the "Lickin' Stick" ad libs...that whole bit and the "Gallows Pole" codas on the end of "Trampled Under Foot" are a couple of the coolest parts of the later '75 shows for me. And, of course "Woodstock" during "Dazed and Confused". So they only did seven out of ten Houses Of The Holy tracks live, looks like. They played the entire fourth album...only two out of seven for Presence, though... Sorry Nutrocker, your arithmetic is off...they did 7 out of 8 HotH tracks. Nearly the complete album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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