Graphite Blimp Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 As any true Zeppelin fan knows, there are spiteful individuals who wish to discredit the band and its accomplishments. Being heavily influenced by the bluesmen that came before, Zeppelin redefined the genre and introduced people such as myself, to the wonderful music. Had it not been for this band I would never have known about it, and I wonder if the Zepp ever realizes how influential it is making a 19 year old as of 2014 fall in love with not only their own music, but introducing me to a whole other genre. Here are some songs that people have claimed Zeppelin "ripped off", I am trying to make this a master list so that if anyone tries to discredit the band you can come here and find the info that will help prove Zeppelin's legitimacy. Go ahead and add stuff or correct things I am mistaken on. "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant." ----- They thought it was traditional, oops. Bredon wrote it, plus they added whole new acoustic part and the powerful descending riff in chorus. "Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch. -----Traditional, doesn't matter who covered it first. Nobody knows who wrote it, that's what traditional is. Plus Page's version is different from Bert Jansch, who again did not write this tune. "Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson). -----They should have said "by the way the first part we're referencing Willie Dixon so that you guys can get the point we're trying to convey that rock comes from blues." but that would've been too long. Instead perhaps they could credit it as "intro is a cover of Willie Dixon"? "Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown." -----No. I'm sorry they have Breakdown in the name? This claim has no basis. "Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy." ----- Admittedly they should have credited the lyrics. But Page's riff is PAGE'S RIFF "Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes). -----This is one where they should say inspired by, etc. Same name and feel. Previously covered by the Yardbirds, Jimmy distorted the song until it was practically his own. Page's multiple riffs, violin bow solo, and guitar solo are all his own and should not be considered a full blown copy. However, I must say the original song no matter how distorted it became, and most of the lyrics including the name of the song itself are Jake Holmes, and so Page/Holmes should be credited. "Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down." ----- Uncredited cover, yes it is. Added a Pedal Steel guitar part if I'm not mistaken. "How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter." ----- Part 1 is all Zeppelin. The middle section has like a 10 second thing that should be considered a reference to "The Hunter" if anything. Again the guitar solo and violin bow and riff are all Page's and lyrics are original. "In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut). ----- Traditional song, again it's a traditional song. Blind Willie Johnson also covered the traditional song. Again, even if the original artist is out there somewhere, I have to put this out there PAGE'S RIFFS ARE PAGE'S RIFFS. Thank you. "The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court. ----- Partly a cover, partly their own. What happened happened and this issue solved. Although I'd like to impress upon you that Robert's "Squeeze my Lemon" part is his own and Page's guitar work is his original stuff. "Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker. ----- No, not even close. This song is a drum solo with a guitar portion at the beginning. I can play both songs, they're different to play. "Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues. ----- Should've credited Blind Willie Johnson with lyrics, music is their own again especially the harmonica and guitar solo. And again the riff. "Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar. ----- This is a weird one because it seems to me the first few lines of lyrics are the same and the rest are different? I say give Moby Grape credit for some lyrics. "Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit. ----- Haha what is this? It's laughable. Apparently Spirit copyrighted descending guitar lines? I guess One by Metallica and Pull Me Under by Dream Theater copied too because they start out soft? The descending acoustic and atmosphere is similar, and I'm sure Zeppelin was inspired by this. "White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair." ----- This is a folk song. If I am not mistaken the beginning of this video> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76Yvw_ZztQk <is proof enough it's Graham's interpretation of this Irish melody, and this song is Jimmy's interpretation. "Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love." ----- The riff, solo, entire middle section -ESPECIALLY THE MIDDLE SECTION-, drums, bassline, all different as well as many of the lyrics. Enough of the lyrics are the same to constitute a suit. An argument I've faced was someone tried to say "would Zeppelin still have written this song had it not been for You Need Love by Dixon?" I say yes. The riff, bassline, and drums would've come together as well as the middle section Robert would just have different words to sing. The song would've been just as popular. I hope you guys' days were brighten having seen this! Another thing I'd like to point out is that at this time Led Zeppelin were just kids covering songs of their idols. They love the bluesmen to death and wouldn't want to "steal" music to make quick money, they were in it to make good music. They brought more people into the world of blues and morphed it into something completely new. Led Zeppelin is a band that has in my eyes never put a weak song out and I can jam to them forever. Also keep this in mind: Others have copied them. Van Halen's "Eruption" contains a part of the "Heartbreaker" solo. Chicago's "25 to 6 or 4" is the same riff as Zeppelin's version of "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You". Us Zeppelin fans don't complain about this do we? There are more but seeing as this post is already so long I'll save you the read. Have a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I admire you taking the time to do this, although there may already be a thread that deals with this subject. Most of us long-time fans have learnt how to deal with the plagiarism accusations that still wind their way across the internet. As you have discovered, some have merit, some are bogus. Plus, when you get into where a particular blues song comes from, it's as thick and thorny as a briar patch. You're wrong about a couple things regarding "The Lemon Song" though. Jimmy's riff comes from Albert King's "Cross-Cut Saw" and Plant's "Squeeze my lemon" is from Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues". There is no pedal steel on "Hats Off to (Roy) Harper"...it's bottleneck guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrybonzo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 never crosses my mind, its a long time ago and no one really cares much, we hear Zep, not a covers band I think the time has come to realise that this type of writing is the norm in the "industry" these days., everyone copies everyone else bumbling on about baby and till the early morn, ugh, sometimes i wish i didnt have ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 "Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love." ----- The riff, solo, entire middle section -ESPECIALLY THE MIDDLE SECTION-, drums, bassline, all different as well as many of the lyrics. Enough of the lyrics are the same to constitute a suit. An argument I've faced was someone tried to say "would Zeppelin still have written this song had it not been for You Need Love by Dixon?" I say yes. The riff, bassline, and drums would've come together as well as the middle section Robert would just have different words to sing. The song would've been just as popular. The main riff can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYOy6I6OR8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzyIsDio Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 There will always be underminded individuals who try to discredit a bands influence and greatness, us true fans know better. Led Zeppelin is one of the greatest bands of all time, that is undisputable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graphite Blimp Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 The main riff can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYOy6I6OR8 That's pushing it man the 4 note phrase has been used a lot in music that's not what I'd call the same by any means. It took me until :37 to even hear it was in there. Again it's not the whole riff either the first four notes of Jimmy's eight note riff. Hey Joe is great though, and JH Experience is one of my favorite bands after Zeppelin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graphite Blimp Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 I admire you taking the time to do this, although there may already be a thread that deals with this subject. Most of us long-time fans have learnt how to deal with the plagiarism accusations that still wind their way across the internet. As you have discovered, some have merit, some are bogus. Plus, when you get into where a particular blues song comes from, it's as thick and thorny as a briar patch. You're wrong about a couple things regarding "The Lemon Song" though. Jimmy's riff comes from Albert King's "Cross-Cut Saw" and Plant's "Squeeze my lemon" is from Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues". There is no pedal steel on "Hats Off to (Roy) Harper"...it's bottleneck guitar. I knew I'd heard a similar riff from the Lemon song somewhere, it was on some televised blues festival, thanks for letting me know what it was. I have to say those are similar but I still think Jimmy's is different enough. And wow I can't believe I didn't know that Robert Johnson made the lemon thing up. And okay thanks I wasn't sure what type that was in "Hat's Off to Roy Harper" thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 As any true Zeppelin fan knows, there are spiteful individuals who wish to discredit the band and its accomplishments. Yes and your post appears to be one of them. T-R-O-L-L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzoso Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There will always be underminded individuals who try to discredit a bands influence and greatness, us true fans know better. Led Zeppelin is one of the greatest bands of all time, that is undisputable. Me, Personally, could care less about the plagiarism arguments and complaints from anyone who speaks of it. I will agree that Led Zeppelin seemed to "borrow" freely from "others" in the early days between studio and live performances. However, Led Zeppelin took those "borrowed" lyrics and riffs and made them Their Own (My opinion). You know what I mean. As for you saying that Led Zeppelin is one of the greatest bands of all time, I will say this until the day I ascend the "Stairway to Heaven" (or perhaps the "Highway to Hell"), LED ZEPPELIN IS THE GREATEST BAND OF ALL-TIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzyIsDio Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 @ Kingzoso, I know exactly what you mean, Black Sabbath did the same with The Warning and Evil Woman, two covers they recorded on their debut album, they made those songs their own, they are two of my favorite Sabbath songs. People will always bitch and complain, Zeppelin were at the top of their game, so what if they borrowed, like you said they made those songs their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantpothead Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Not if Wham! is considered to be a band. Are you in a different corner than the rest of us...........Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure if that was George Michael on his own, it wasn't funny but it was quick (I've only just read this thread a couple of minutes ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes and your post appears to be one of them. T-R-O-L-L He didn't come off as Trolly to me at all. Like it or not.. the copyright issue is getting plenty of attention out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 He didn't come off as Trolly to me at all. Like it or not.. the copyright issue is getting plenty of attention out there. So like Graphite Wimp you are posting here to "enlighten" me on this issue?? This topic has been talked about previously, in much older posts. It adds nothing new to the debate and has been done to death already. There is nothing a discussion here will change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 He didn't come off as Trolly to me at all. Like it or not.. the copyright issue is getting plenty of attention out there. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 So like Graphite Wimp you are posting here to "enlighten" me on this issue?? This topic has been talked about previously, in much older posts. It adds nothing new to the debate and has been done to death already. There is nothing a discussion here will change anything. No, not at all Joe.. You seem very enlightened to me. If you HADN'T called Graphite Blimp a T-R-O-L-L, I would have avoided this thread like the plague Just because a topic hits a nerve with you (and me), doesn't mean it can't be brought up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZISH Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Two points on the above topic. (A) Zeppelin can be heard in many Hendricks recordings, especially 'All Along The Watchtower' and 'Stairway to Heaven'. ( Bert Jansch always said that his work was emulated by Zeppelin. The case in point being, Jansch's "Jack Onion", album, recorded 1966. As above, there is only so far musicians can go, until their songs echo and cross other songs. In a large percentage of cases, this is unintentional, in some cases, it is done purposely. I must state that there is no greater Led Zeppelin fan than myself but on occasions, I can hear various other works in their music. we all have our inspirations and therefore it comes through in our music. This all aside, you can have no doubt that Led Zeppelin were by far the greatest Rock Band that the world has ever seen and heard and always will be. They themselves have been copied and emulated but never, ever equaled. Happy Valentines day to you all. ZISH. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil. Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Are you in a different corner than the rest of us...........Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure if that was George Michael on his own, it wasn't funny but it was quick (I've only just read this thread a couple of minutes ago) You forgot the "musical genius" of Andrew Ridgeley...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Bert Jansch always said that his work was emulated by Zeppelin. The case in point being, Jansch's "Jack Onion", album, recorded 1966. Except the song you are referring to is a traditional one, Jansch didn't write it, and Page was playing it before Led Zeppelin formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayougal65 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Two points on the above topic. (A) Zeppelin can be heard in many Hendricks recordings, especially 'All Along The Watchtower' and 'Stairway to Heaven'. ( Bert Jansch always said that his work was emulated by Zeppelin. The case in point being, Jansch's "Jack Onion", album, recorded 1966. As above, there is only so far musicians can go, until their songs echo and cross other songs. In a large percentage of cases, this is unintentional, in some cases, it is done purposely. I must state that there is no greater Led Zeppelin fan than myself but on occasions, I can hear various other works in their music. we all have our inspirations and therefore it comes through in our music. This all aside, you can have no doubt that Led Zeppelin were by far the greatest Rock Band that the world has ever seen and heard and always will be. They themselves have been copied and emulated but never, ever equaled. Happy Valentines day to you all. ZISH. X Sorry to interrupt... but had to say... Hi Zish! Glad to see you are here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZISH Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Hi Sorry to interrupt... but had to say... Hi Zish! Glad to see you are here! Hi Bayougal. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate you saying hi. I hope all is well with you. It's nice to be remembered. XX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabe Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Another blatant ripp-off post Led Zeppelin by Plant. This was before MTV went color. The discerning ear can detect the subtlety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 That's pushing it man the 4 note phrase has been used a lot in music that's not what I'd call the same by any means. It took me until :37 to even hear it was in there. Again it's not the whole riff either the first four notes of Jimmy's eight note riff. Hey Joe is great though, and JH Experience is one of my favorite bands after Zeppelin!Another blatant ripp-off post Led Zeppelin by Plant. This was before MTV went color. The discerning ear can detect the subtlety.http://youtu.be/teJfuKdzbOo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clw Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 There will always be underminded individuals who try to discredit a bands influence and greatness, us true fans know better. Led Zeppelin is one of the greatest bands of all time, that is undisputable. Ditto!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantpothead Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If it was so controversial, we would have a thread on most of the groups from the late 50s onwards. What was controversial was George Harrisons - My Sweet Lord. At least Zepp only nicked a few lyrics and a riff here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graphite Blimp Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 He didn't come off as Trolly to me at all. Like it or not.. the copyright issue is getting plenty of attention out there. Yeah I am not trying to troll at all! I may have said it in the original part, but this is meant to be a page you can go to, forif someone is trying to say they didn't make what they took their own, or even some making accusations that are just plain wrong and have no depth, you can bring this up and say "No sir I believe you are wrong Zepp was and IS the greatest band of all time". I don't know what made that guy think I was trolling.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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