The Next President of the USA will be?

[Suz]

Obama is a Typical Black Person to bring up race, when defending his stance.

I read the speech, and I think you're taking it out of context. Personally, I found out my beloved grandma was a typical white person of her time, in that regard. I was 12 when I realized she had racist attitudes that were very typical of her generation.

[ledzeppIV]

She's not as intelligent as some of the other candidates I've seen. And why make her President just because she's a woman? Don't you think their political standing is more important?

Your agenda is obvious. Not intelligent? You are not intelligent. You actually think Mccain or Obama are more intelligent than Hillary? How ignorant you are.

[bigstickbonzo]

Your agenda is obvious. Not intelligent? You are not intelligent. You actually think Mccain or Obama are more intelligent than Hillary? How ignorant you are.

Interesting.

You miraculously appear when 'icantquityoubabe' isnt around.

And you speak the same 'broken English' he spews.

[Electrophile]

Your agenda is obvious. Not intelligent? You are not intelligent. You actually think Mccain or Obama are more intelligent than Hillary? How ignorant you are.

Gee, I wonder who you are.

[Pb Derigable]

I read the speech, and I think you're taking it out of context. Personally, I found out my beloved grandma was a typical white person of her time, in that regard. I was 12 when I realized she had racist attitudes that were very typical of her generation.

Yes, and it's typical of black people of this generation that grew up listening to Rev. Jesse Jackson, Rec. Meeks, Malcolm X and Rev. Wright to bring up race when you're stance is questioned. There are white people who don't fear black people and there's black people, like Bill Cosby, and Dr. Martin Luther King, who believed we are more then black against White, that the only way to defeat Racism, is too live without hate of it.

[Pb Derigable]

If that Ican'tquityou, who they hell is donkey?

[Dzldoc]

Your agenda is obvious. Not intelligent? You are not intelligent. You actually think Mccain or Obama are more intelligent than Hillary? How ignorant you are.

Gee, I wonder who you are.

Hmm? words seem familiar no?

[DRUNK]

Man, I am out of the loop completely. What is going on here?

I haven't read this thread in detail. but I see some shit about Obama's race etc.

Obama isn't a bad guy. Hell, even I have been open to him.

Race is only becoming an issue in this because the media has recently focused on it.

From what I have seen, that this has been a relatively racial BS free election so far.

Obama is a smart guy. I don't think he is connected to all this BS. Like the comments from his pastor? Who cares? Cm'on now.

Obama is..........I need to think of how to say this..........he is not your active black radical dude. 0bama is a sensible guy. Don't fear this guy.

I haven't chosen who I want for president. McCain is great. Obama is good too. Hillary, as polarizing as she is, there's no doubt she is capable and would do a good job. So, we are in good shape.

[Pb Derigable]

Man, I am out of the loop completely. What is going on here?

I haven't read this thread in detail. but I see some shit about Obama's race etc.

The media didn't bring up race, he did. His pastor comments are his pastor comments, but to defend his pastor statements by bringing up race, to either distract us from the pastor issue, or to say his pastor anti American statements is an exceptable part of black culture, because America is run by rich white guys. If he truly feels that his pastor is wrong, he should've walk out long ago, if i married a Black girl and he ever called her a n-word, I wouldn't think twice about not talking to him again, even if my father is part of that culture that practice racism. My father words does not make me a racist, but putting up with it, questions my integrity. If three guys decided to kill a man, and only one pulls the trigger, all three still committed a crime, the two other aren't murders, are they better a person?

[Babs]

To all you women in America. Here is your chance. Womens rights. Give women equal standing for all time. These words coming from a man. Be you black or be you white or other. Give Hillary the chance. She deserves the chance. Dont buy into the false BS of McCain or Obama's promises he cannot deliver. It is time for a woman to run this country. Give her a chance. Ask yourself, when will you have another chance in your lifetime to have a woman this intelligent and this close?

Have you been into the Blue Moons' again?

[Bonham]

Man, I am out of the loop completely. What is going on here?

I haven't read this thread in detail. but I see some shit about Obama's race etc.

Obama isn't a bad guy. Hell, even I have been open to him.

Race is only becoming an issue in this because the media has recently focused on it.

From what I have seen, that this has been a relatively racial BS free election so far.

Obama is a smart guy. I don't think he is connected to all this BS. Like the comments from his pastor? Who cares? Cm'on now.

Obama is..........I need to think of how to say this..........he is not your active black radical dude. 0bama is a sensible guy. Don't fear this guy.

I haven't chosen who I want for president. McCain is great. Obama is good too. Hillary, as polarizing as she is, there's no doubt she is capable and would do a good job. So, we are in good shape.

You obviously are drunk.

[Hermit]

Man, I am out of the loop completely. What is going on here?

I haven't read this thread in detail. but I see some shit about Obama's race etc.

Obama isn't a bad guy. Hell, even I have been open to him.

Race is only becoming an issue in this because the media has recently focused on it.

From what I have seen, that this has been a relatively racial BS free election so far.

Obama is a smart guy. I don't think he is connected to all this BS. Like the comments from his pastor? Who cares? Cm'on now.

Obama is..........I need to think of how to say this..........he is not your active black radical dude. 0bama is a sensible guy. Don't fear this guy.

I haven't chosen who I want for president. McCain is great. Obama is good too. Hillary, as polarizing as she is, there's no doubt she is capable and would do a good job. So, we are in good shape.

Damn, DRUNK.

Other than "McCain is great", I do believe that's one

of the most sober-sounding posts you've ever written.

Cheers, bro.

It's amazing (and sad) (and revealing) how fearful of Obama..

based on his race.. many people on the right seem to be, huh?

[Hermit]

FINALLY!

Another endorsement from one of the former candidates in this race! *

Gov Bill Richardson is endorsing.. Barack Obama!

* With Chris Dodd having previously endorsed Obama, that means the two former candidates who've chosen to endorse one of the remaining candidates.. have both endorsed Obama.

--------------------

New Mexico's Richardson endorses Obama

Hispanic governor says presidential hopeful a 'once-in-a-lifetime leader'

March 21, 2008

SANTA FE, New Mexico - New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, America's only Hispanic governor, is endorsing Sen. Barack Obama for president, calling him a "once-in-a- lifetime leader" who can unite the nation and restore America's international leadership.

Richardson, who dropped out of the Democratic race in January, is to appear with Obama on Friday at a campaign event in Portland, Oregon, The Associated Press has learned.

The governor's endorsement comes as Obama leads among delegates selected at primaries and caucuses but with national public opinion polling showing Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton pulling ahead of him amid controversy over statements by his former pastor.

Richardson has been relentlessly wooed by Obama and Clinton for his endorsement. As a Democratic superdelegate, the governor plays a part in the tight race for nominating votes and could bring other superdelegates to Obama's side. He also has been mentioned as a potential running mate for either candidate.

No primaries are scheduled until Pennsylvania's on April 22, a gap in time Obama hopes to use for such announcements to assert that he is the front-runner for the nomination.

"I believe he is the kind of once-in-a-lifetime leader that can bring our nation together and restore America's moral leadership in the world," Richardson said in a statement obtained by the AP.

"As a presidential candidate, I know full well Sen. Obama's unique moral ability to inspire the American people to confront our urgent challenges at home and abroad in a spirit of bipartisanship and reconciliation."

*source*

--------------

Maybe this'll start the ball rolling as far as bigtime endorsements go.

Will John Edwards speak up next?.. How about Joe Biden?

What about Al Gore?.. Wes Clark?.. Evan Bayh?.. Russ Feingold?.. Jim Webb?..

A couple days ago Clinton was endorsed.. to little fanfare.. by John Murtha.

That was significant given Murtha's standing as a solidly pro-military man.

We gotta get this nomination over with so the dem party

can re-unify and start campaigning against John McCain!

[cryingbluerain]

It's amazing (and sad) (and revealing) how fearful of Obama..

based on his race.. many people on the right seem to be, huh?

And he can thank his Pastor for bringing that fear to the surface.

[Hermit]

And he can thank his Pastor for bringing that fear to the surface.

Long before the video clips of Reverend Wright popped up, people like you were already saying "America aint ready for a Black POTUS" and "there's no way people in the south will vote for a Black candidate". It was just a matter of time before right wing smear nuts started using race as an issue to stir up race fear among righties. Case in point: *Fox News publishes false "Black Panther" Endorsement *. There's no limit to how low Fox "News" and other rightie nut jobs will go to use race as a wedge issue, is there?

The fear and distrust (and hatred) of Blacks as a race is either in you or it isn't. There's nothing Reverend Wright said that makes me fearful of Obama as a Black man, or makes me fearful of or concerned about a Black man being POTUS. But obviously the same isn't the case for many on the right, eh bluerain?

What's the worst that can happen? Do you righties think the race power

structure is gonna be totally upended.. by one Black POTUS? Or what?

[Uncle Bill]

Sorry Uncle Bill,....your right.It was just that was a hell of an exaggeration!

No problem man I never meant to imply that any Clinton or Bush was as bad or anything like Pol Pot, just the likelihood of me voting for any of them is about equal.

[cryingbluerain]

Long before the video clips of Reverend Wright popped up, people like you were already saying "America aint ready for a Black POTUS" and "there's no way people in the south will vote for a Black candidate". It was just a matter of time before right wing smear nuts started using race as an issue to stir up race fear among righties. Case in point: *Fox News publishes false "Black Panther" Endorsement *. There's no limit to how low Fox "News" and other rightie nut jobs will go to use race as a wedge issue, is there?

Nice try Hermit, trying to blame this on right wing smear tactics. Fact is your guy BO

should have distanced himself from this racial fear mongering Reverand a long time ago if he didn't want it to affect his bid for the Presidency. Seems like poor judgment on his part, don't ya think? Now the crap is starting to hit the fan judging by his latest slide in the polls.

The fear and distrust (and hatred) of Blacks as a race is either in you or it isn't. There's nothing Reverend Wright said that makes me fearful of Obama as a Black man, or makes me fearful of or concerned about a Black man being POTUS. But obviously the same isn't the case for many on the right, eh bluerain?

BO is the one who made race an issue in his speech. He should have just condemned what the guy said and have been done with it. I thought he was the candidate who is trying to bring everyone together? Using race as an issue doesn't help him much in that regard imo.

[Hermit]

No problem man I never meant to imply that any Clinton or Bush was as bad or anything like Pol Pot, just the likelihood of me voting for any of them is about equal.

Interesting.

You know,.. seeing as though you've been passing yourself off as 'undecided'.

Your position there on Hillary sounds pretty darn decided to me, Unc.

Something tells me you're probably not so 'undecided' about Obama either, huh?

Have you decided to give McCain a pass on the whole Keating 5 thing?

[Hermit]

Nice try Hermit, trying to blame this on right wing smear tactics. Fact is your guy BO

should have distanced himself from this racial fear mongering Reverand a long time ago if he didn't want it to affect his bid for the Presidency. Seems like poor judgment on his part, don't ya think? Now the crap is starting to hit the fan judging by his latest slide in the polls.

I didn't blame it on anybody. I merely pointed out that it was simply going to be a matter of time anyway before the righties started ramping up their race-based smear campaign, that's all.

Obama's timing is irrelevant. Whenever it came up (and it was going to come up eventually since Obama's been a member of that church for some 20 years) it was going to be made into an controversial issue by those looking to use race as a wedge issue. It did finally come up, and Obama has handled it in a way that has earned him much praise.

Btw,.. we have yet to see if he gets a bump in the polls from his having given that speech.

BO is the one who made race an issue in his speech. He should have just condemned what the guy said and have been done with it. I thought he was the candidate who is trying to bring everyone together? Using race as an issue doesn't help him much in that regard imo.

Obama gave that speech because race had became an issue. He didnt make it the issue, but once it came up as an issue he didn't run from it. He faced it, and he addressed it head on. Good for him, I say!

Only a rightie would say that someone trying to bring people together should avoid race as an issue. That's old-think, muh-man. The times they are a changin. Or hadn't you caught on to that yet? Did you not get the point of Obama's speech? (did you even bother to see or read the speech?) The point was that we need to acknowledge, face, and address race issues. In doing so we can move forward.. we can make progress.. we can work together on our common purpose of striving to make America a more perfect union.

But you righties don't care much for progress.. or change.. do you?

You old-thinker types prefer the status quo, huh?

Come on, stick,.. embrace change, my bruthah!

[Uncle Bill]

BO is the one who made race an issue in his speech. He should have just condemned what the guy said and have been done with it.

I agree, but he was trying to have it both ways. He wanted to alienate as few of the people who agree with Wright as possible. Maybe I think that because I'm a typical white guy eh?

[cryingbluerain]

Obama gave that speech because race had became an issue. He didnt make it the issue, but once it came up as an issue he didn't run from it. He faced it, and he addressed it head on. Good for him, I say!

I still think his speech did more to exacerbate the race issue. And this is the candidate who hoped to make race irrelevant in his bid to become the first black to occupy the White House?

Did you not get the point of Obama's speech? (did you even bother to see or read the speech?) The point was that we need to acknowledge, face, and address race issues. In doing so we can move forward.. we can make progress.. we can work together on our common purpose of striving to make America a more perfect union.

Yes very noble thoughts indeed. But I am still suspicious of a guy who sat in the congregation for 20 years of a Pastor who has expressed such hate filled messages as I have heard.

[Uncle Bill]

fwiw, some poll data

"Gallup Poll Daily tracking finds Hillary Clinton with a 49% to 42% lead over Barack Obama in national Democratic voters' presidential nomination preference."

"The initial indications are that the speech has not halted Clinton's gaining momentum, as she led by a similar margin in Tuesday night's polling as compared to Monday night's polling."

"John McCain may be benefiting in the short-term from the highly charged Democratic race. He holds a statistically significant lead over Obama, 47% to 43%, in registered voters' preferences for the general presidential election. That is the first time any of the candidates has held a statistically significant lead since Gallup Poll Daily tracking began reporting on the general election race last week."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105205/Gallup-D...Over-Obama.aspx

[Hermit]

Yes very noble thoughts indeed. But I am still suspicious of a guy who sat in the congregation for 20 years of a Pastor who has expressed such hate filled messages as I have heard.

Regarding the (snippets of) the messages that you've heard..

..you might find this to be of some interest.. -->

---------------

The media fails America once again

Fri Mar 21, 2008

..

I decided to pull of the video of Reverend Wright's sermon in which he allegedly made the comments blaming America for 9/11, and guess what I found? He was quoting Ambassador Edward Peck, who made those comments on FOX NEWS (oh, the irony) the day after the 9/11 attacks. Here is the evidence:

*http://www.youtube.com/...*

Around the 3-minute mark, Reverend Wright asks the church members if they saw the ambassador on Fox News, and what he had said. Then he proceeds to pull out a sheet of paper, and read the words of ambassador Peck.

This is another example of how the media has manufactured a controversy in order to sway the American public. We all should be very concerned about the media in the country, because after all...this is the same crowd that gave us the Iraq war.

[source: Daily Kos]

--------

If you watch that video, at exactly the 3-minute mark Reverend W starts talking about Ambassador Peck's comments that were made during a Fox News broadcast after 9/11 (*pic of Peck*). He then reads Peck's quote word-for-word (delivering it with quite a bit flair, as we've all seen in the video snippets recently). During this recent Rev W "scandal", Peck's words have been attributed to Rev Wright himself and have been cited as an example of Wright expressing anti-American sentiment. And yet they are the words of a former US Ambassador to Iraq who was making a point that the attack on 9/11 may have been "America's chickens coming home to roost".. in other words.. what terror analysts call "blowback".

Rev Wright's hate-filled message?

Perhaps the other snippets we've seen of Rev W sermons should be seen

in their full context before the man is castigated as a hate-monger, eh?

[ledzeppIV]

I still think his speech did more to exacerbate the race issue. And this is the candidate who hoped to make race irrelevant in his bid to become the first black to occupy the White House?

Yes very noble thoughts indeed. But I am still suspicious of a guy who sat in the congregation for 20 years of a Pastor who has expressed such hate filled messages as I have heard.

Amen to that!!

[Hermit]

Words of an angry Black preacher:

"God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place."

ABP (Angry Black Preacher) then predicted this response from the Almighty:

"And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."

~ Martin Luther King, Jr. (1968, re: Vietnam)

If today's technology had existed then, I would imagine the media playing quotations of that sort over and over. Right-wing commentators would use the material to argue that King was anti-American and to discredit his call for racial and class justice. King certainly angered a lot of people at the time.

I cite King not to justify Wright's damnation of America or his lunatic and pernicious theories but to suggest that Obama's pastor and his church are not as far outside the African American mainstream as many would suggest. I would also ask my conservative friends who praise King so lavishly to search their consciences and wonder if they would have stood up for him in 1968.

These are realities that Obama has forced us to confront, and they are painful. Wright was operating within a long tradition of African American outrage, which is one reason Obama could not walk away from his old pastor in the name of political survival. Obama's personal closeness to Wright would have made such a move craven in any event.

~ E.J. Dionne, Jr. *source*

-----------------

[FYI> I took some liberty with how I presented Dionne's material prior to the point where the quote is attributed to King. Dionne made it clear up front that he was going to quote King.. whereas I, for perhaps obvious reasons, wanted the citation to come after the quote had been read.]

Can you imagine the intensity and drama with which "ABP" MLK delivered those words? Given that Rev Wright is of a generation that still experienced the sting of racial segregation, subjugation, and humiliation (he was born 6 years before Jackie Robinson broke the race barrier in Major League Baseball) is it really all that alarming or impossible to understand why he's a bit of an "ABP"?

As Obama said in his speech the other day..

"This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What's remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.

But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."

*source/full transcript*

Obama is so direct, frank, and candid in discussing these issues,..

..what is there to be so "suspicious" of?