Spats' Loveblahblahblah Thread

[longdistancewinner]

I would really love to make everything easier for myself? How would that be done?

What do you mean, 'How would that be done?' You got out and get that girl's number yourself. Or you give her yours. Without the aid of your friend. You're not making it easy because you're shying away from actually asking someone to go out. You're getting your friend's to do it on your behalf, and, frankly, if you did that to me, I'd probably say no because of it. If a guy has to get his mate to ask me out, I'd wonder what was wrong with him. I'd wonder if his mate would be joining us on the date. I suppose some people would find it endearing, but I get the feeling that you've fallen into somewhat of a habit with regards to women - laziness.

Then how did you and your boyfriend hook up???? If you weren't saying anything to each other??

We were 17. He invited me to his house party. We got 'drunk' and kissed each other. The next day we had a talk about it and he admitted he wasn't that drunk. Neither was I. We had our first 'proper' kiss in our local churchyard. We said we'd give it a week and see how we'd go from there. That was 5 1/2 years ago. And you know what? I've known him since we were 4. He's my best friend, my love and my life.

That's the difference between me and you. If a girl said to me "i didn't find you attractive at first" i would be very offended. What i would hear when she said that is "your looks are not good enough to attract someone right away".

I must admit I'd be a bit upset if I fancied him at the time, but I was able to overcome that little glitch when he admitted that when he hugged me he wanted to kiss me. I was none the wiser. Him saying that he didn't fancy me wasn't anymore offensive to me than me thinking I didn't fancy him. It doesn't mean that he was terrible looking. In fact, it's only testament to how attractive his personality is. The more I hung out with him, the more I realised I loved him. And then he became beautiful to me. But, somehow you seem to only equate attractiveness to being just confined to the superficial aspects of your person.

When i say "hook up" i don't mean one night stand or anything. I mean she thinks i am hot and wants to get to know me and spend time with me,etc.

I honestly don't know what to say. You're expecting way too much for yourself, especially when you seem as self-deprecating as you do. You want someone to tell you your hot on first impression? Go see a prostitute. You pay 'em enough and they'll tell you anything you want. Seriously, though, you work with what you've got. I'm no model - I know that - but I try and use what I have to my advantage. I try and dress nicely, I act confident and smile (even when I'm petrified), I'm polite, etc. If your body language is negative, then you don't come across as friendly. And that is not 'hot'.

[Pip]

Then what is the appropriate thing to call a woman to describe her good looks. You have to call them something. Women like to be complimented on their looks. I consider cute to be a nice compliment. Patronizing?

I listen my guy friends most of the time because they are my best friends and i have known them a long time. And i trust them more than anyone.

Well if you want a 'cute girl' there is more wrong here than I initially thought...

but aren't they all 'bad boys'? because apparently some are married and have girlfriends and by your definition that means that they are 'bad boys'... why would you listen and trust them?

I am actually kidding.. I realize they probably aren't 'bad boys'... and not all of them can be 'Alpha males' (there can be only one... ohh Highlander!)...

I have no point really ... just think it is funny how dumb this all is...

[spats]

What do you mean, 'How would that be done?' You got out and get that girl's number yourself. Or you give her yours. Without the aid of your friend. You're not making it easy because you're shying away from actually asking someone to go out. You're getting your friend's to do it on your behalf, and, frankly, if you did that to me, I'd probably say no because of it. If a guy has to get his mate to ask me out, I'd wonder what was wrong with him. I'd wonder if his mate would be joining us on the date. I suppose some people would find it endearing, but I get the feeling that you've fallen into somewhat of a habit with regards to women - laziness.

We were 17. He invited me to his house party. We got 'drunk' and kissed each other. The next day we had a talk about it and he admitted he wasn't that drunk. Neither was I. We had our first 'proper' kiss in our local churchyard. We said we'd give it a week and see how we'd go from there. That was 5 1/2 years ago. And you know what? I've known him since we were 4. He's my best friend, my love and my life.

I must admit I'd be a bit upset if I fancied him at the time, but I was able to overcome that little glitch when he admitted that when he hugged me he wanted to kiss me. I was none the wiser. Him saying that he didn't fancy me wasn't anymore offensive to me than me thinking I didn't fancy him. It doesn't mean that he was terrible looking. In fact, it's only testament to how attractive his personality is. The more I hung out with him, the more I realised I loved him. And then he became beautiful to me. But, somehow you seem to only equate attractiveness to being just confined to the superficial aspects of your person.

I honestly don't know what to say. You're expecting way too much for yourself, especially when you seem as self-deprecating as you do. You want someone to tell you your hot on first impression? Go see a prostitute. You pay 'em enough and they'll tell you anything you want. Seriously, though, you work with what you've got. I'm no model - I know that - but I try and use what I have to my advantage. I try and dress nicely, I act confident and smile (even when I'm petrified), I'm polite, etc. If your body language is negative, then you don't come across as friendly. And that is not 'hot'.

Well if a woman got her friend to do that to me i would still be flattered. It still showed she was interested, just that she was unsure of how i felt. I would not be turned off by that. She was still taking some sort of action even if she had her friend come to me.

I have given out my number to women. To this last woman and a handful of times last year. Poor results in return though. Not one called back. Do i just keep giving my number out until one of the women actually call?

Good for you that you have found someone. I wish i could find a woman that would be cool, a good friend, who i also find physically attractive. Who i am completely comfortable with. Who i don't feel self concious around. And who finds me hot too.

I just don't want the physical attraction to have to grow over time though. That does not sound good to me. That sounds like it's not as good as instant physical attraction. I want THAT. The sparks flying type of physical attraction.

Guys will go right up to women and tell them they think they are hot or beautiful, or pretty. And i have seen women go straight for a guy they think is hot. That's what i want for me. Maybe you are right though. Maybe with my looks it's too unrealistic to expect that. The guys at Harbourfront were great looking so it's not unrealistic for women to go up and say their friend thinks their goodlooking. That will probably never happen to be unfortunately.

[~tangerine~]

But you can't tell just by looking at someone if they are a jerk or if they don't care about anyone but themselves. Kat and i were talking about this. Women don't really have a radar for that stuff. Or else they would only hook up with nice guys. Which they don't.

I think i am a nice person. If i like someone i treat them nice. I don't wait on them hand and foot but i am nice. If women are nice to me, i am nice to them.

And to clarify something...iam not looking for women to buy me food and drink. I happily pay my own way.

I will agree with you that you can't always tell if someone is sincere, just charming you, or just plain kiniving. People who outrightly act like jerks are obvious. But i can tell you from experience with a long term relationship, you don't always know right away.

Women can be just as insidious as men. I don't think it's a matter of radar. I think it's a matter of getting to know someone and allowing yourself to see the signs (or not being in denial when you see them and close your eyes to them).

If JPP65 has such good insight into people that she can tell so quickly, i applaud her.

[Pip]

I just don't want the physical attraction to have to grow over time though. That does not sound good to me. That sounds like it's not as good as instant physical attraction. I want THAT. The sparks flying type of physical attraction.

HAHAHAH so it is YOU who wants the romance novel type!?? hehe

[spats]

HAHAHAH so it is YOU who wants the romance novel type!?? hehe

No, i am not into lots of romance. I am not sweeping anybody off their feet. :rolleyes:I mean getting aroused by just looking at the person. I want any woman i hook up with to find me hot. Not just liking my personality. She might as well just say my looks are not that great if that's the case. I don't want the whole "he got better looking the more i got to know him" deal. I want her to think i am great looking right away.

[~tangerine~]

I have given out my number to women. To this last woman and a handful of times last year. Poor results in return though. Not one called back. Do i just keep giving my number out until one of the women actually call?

Since that approach hasn't been successful, next time ask her for her number and call her.

[Pip]

No, i am not into lots of romance. I am not sweeping anybody off their feet. :rolleyes:I mean getting aroused by just looking at the person. I want any woman i hook up with to find me hot. Not just liking my personality. She might as well just say my looks are not that great if that's the case. I don't want the whole "he got better looking the more i got to know him" deal. I want her to think i am great looking right away.

Is that so you can fool her with your looks so she doesn't pick up on your less desirable attributes...

Actually if you read a Mills and Boon (yes I admit it I have read a couple - they are absolutely vulgar but also hilarious!) You will find that physical attraction is always the first thing they go on about before they start humping each others legs and THEN they fall in love...

So it is you (and not the whole female population as you would have us all believe) that has a fantasized view of how things are going to be!

Actually I have observed that all the things you say women are tend to be self referential.

[longdistancewinner]

Well if a woman got her friend to do that to me i would still be flattered. It still showed she was interested, just that she was unsure of how i felt. I would not be turned off by that. She was still taking some sort of action even if she had her friend come to me.

It's a little more socially exceptable to have a woman ask her friend to talk to the guy she likes. It doesn't make it right, but women can sometimes do this. You wouldn't be turned off by that, but a woman may be turned off with a guy if he did that. You're not in school anymore, you should be able to at least strike up some conversation without the aid of your friend initiating anything between you two.

I have given out my number to women. To this last woman and a handful of times last year. Poor results in return though. Not one called back. Do i just keep giving my number out until one of the women actually call?

Who do you give your number to? Just random women? Sometimes, and I'm betting this word is a new concept to you, you may just have to persevere on with it. Why don't you ask the girls for their number's? Why don't you both exchange numbers? If a guy gave me his number I'd think that he wanted me to initiate the date and do all the 'hard work'. If you fancy a girl enough why don't you ask for her's? If she says no, then leave it. If she says yes, then the hardest part is already over. In my honest opinion, you've already blown your chance with this girl because you got your mate to ask her to call you. It makes you look weak in her eyes.

Good for you that you have found someone. I wish i could find a woman that would be cool, a good friend, who i also find physically attractive. Who i am completely comfortable with. Who i don't feel self concious around. And who finds me hot too.

It wasn't my life's purpose to find someone. You make it sound like without that piece of eye candy, your life's ambitions doesn't amount to anything. You need to stop putting so much emphasis on the superficial aspects of a person.

I just don't want the physical attraction to have to grow over time though. That does not sound good to me. That sounds like it's not as good as instant physical attraction. I want THAT. The sparks flying type of physical attraction.

You don't want a lot then. Face it, Spats, people age. Jimmy Page isn't the same man he was 30 years ago, but, you know, he has a different kind of beauty now than he did previously - dignity, grace, elegance (that's not to say he didn't have them before, they're just more emphasised now). My point is physical attraction changes with time, because we change.

But, because you want that bang! instant physical attraction - nay, you're desparate for it - you're actually willing to foresake the chance for a deeper meaningful relationship. You want lust over love. Lust wanes, Spats. Love does not. And that you think it's not a good thing to gradually fall in love, says a lot.

Guys will go right up to women and tell them they think they are hot or beautiful, or pretty. And i have seen women go straight for a guy they think is hot. That's what i want for me. Maybe you are right though. Maybe with my looks it's too unrealistic to expect that. The guys at Harbourfront were great looking so it's not unrealistic for women to go up and say their friend thinks their goodlooking. That will probably never happen to be unfortunately.

Show us your picture. Maybe we could be the judge of whether you're hot or not. In what situations do these women say that a man's hot? Could it be when drink is around? You can think you look like shit, but it doesn't mean someone else will. You can think you look wonderful, and, again, it doesn't mean someone else will.

[Dzldoc]

No, i am not into lots of romance. I am not sweeping anybody off their feet. I mean getting aroused by just looking at the person. I want any woman i hook up with to find me hot. Not just liking my personality. She might as well just say my looks are not that great if that's the case. I don't want the whole "he got better looking the more i got to know him" deal. I want her to think i am great looking right away.

You may as well just give up and go have a nice tall glass of...

[Katuschka]

You would argue with yourself if no one else was around.

Excuse me? I only wanted you to answer my question. Because from the very start, you present yourself as a grousy Masculinist, accusing Pip of whining, although your own argument made little sense.

I never considered myself to be a downright feminist, but I still don't understand what about Pip's post was so offensive that you had to accuse her of whinning. I could name several examples in my surroundings where women have been psychically or physically tortured by their husbands. I don't doubt or deny that there are women who use men for money, but I personally don't know any.

All I'm saying that I can understand why they are doing what they are doing. It's definitely not because men and women are different, it's only the result of bad upbringing. The fact that I strongly disagree with such behaviour is another matter.

Give me some examples of your general discrimination. Excuse my ignorance but, general is way to vague. I really didn't realize that women had it So bad. If my lack of perception on the womens plight has caused any women to suffer I am sorry. I know other social groups have had it very bad throughout history but I didn't realize, excuse me!

Don't be such a Drama King, you were the one who started patronizing others, don't be so surprised at the backlash.

Your confident statement that men and women are different animals is equally vague. Yes, men and women are different, but that doesn't justify the fact that there have been universities and universities for women, jobs and jobs suitable for women

. It doesn't explain the why sinle women with children have difficulties with finding a job and have to rely on men. Because we are supposed to raise children? Yes, mother's role may be more inportant in the early years (though I'm not sure I agree), but it shouldn't destroy woman's career for the rest of her life. And you are surprised some women use men for money. Being dependent on someone is not as pleasant as you might imagine.

Yes, everyone has different talents or we could all sing like Robert. I don't know why you are trying to argue that women are equal. I think you just want everyone to acknowledge that women are better. I have already stated that women are as good or better in some areas but that is not enough for you. Right?

I really don't see why I should want anyone to acknowledge this. If you think that this is why I'm trying to argue that women are equal, then I will have to agree with you: you ARE ignorant. But I won't excuse it, because I, likewise, don't know WHY you are trying to argue that women are NOT equal. Tell me one single reason; and please use more up-to-date examples (there is no fire I should be taking care of and my boyfriend never killed anything with a spear). You are way too defensive. It would be enough if you told me why I am wrong, instead of acting like a victim of my reasonless female wrath, and fabricating what I do or do not want.

[Katuschka]

But you can't tell just by looking at someone if they are a jerk or if they don't care about anyone but themselves. Kat and i were talking about this. Women don't really have a radar for that stuff. Or else they would only hook up with nice guys. Which they don't.

It would be really nice of you if you stopped putting words in my mouth. It is true that we were talking about this, but did I agree with you? No.

Sure, there are certain individuals who just can't see if one's a jerk (and it's certainly not limited to only one gender) ...until it's too late. There was nothing in what I said that would justify your argument here. As for myself, I have a very well developped radar for this, because the man I'm dating is not nice...He's lovely, caring and considerate. So stop talking bullshit.

[euro]

I think people should define equality. Do we mean human dignity.physical strength, intellect economically?

Human Dignity: Yes men and women should be equal in the ideal world

Physical Strength: Yes men are stronger but so what?

Mental Capabilities: differences are within individuals themselves not the sexes. A Woman Engineer or Doctor is just as capable or incompetent her male conterpart

Economic: Empirically, yes men have more "economic power" than females on a whole but I dont know how u correct this without overthrowing the entire free market system. So how do you correct this without undermining the free market system?

[docron]

It would be really nice of you if you stopped putting words in my mouth. It is true that we were talking about this, but did I agree with you? No.

Sure, there are certain individuals who just can't see if one's a jerk (and it's certainly not limited to only one gender) ...until it's too late. There was nothing in what I said that would justify your argument here. As for myself, I have a very well developped radar for this, because the man I'm dating is not nice...He's lovely, caring and considerate. So stop talking bullshit.

The things you post make me want to pop in my The Open Mind LP and make love to you all night.

[Katuschka]

Human Dignity: Yes men and women should be equal in the ideal world

Yes, in the ideal world, states should be governed by characterous, intelligent and competent people; different religious views should be tolerated; and all children should be offered equal opportunities.

Even if one is a pessimist, it is acceptable and agreeable to discuss such issues. But gender issues somehow remain a tabu.

Economic: Empirically, yes men have more "economic power" than females on a whole but I dont know how u correct this without overthrowing the entire free market system. So how do you correct this without undermining the free market system?

You could ask the same question about poverty. I'm no socialist, but it applies to this as well. Empirically, the ones born in rich families have a much easier start than those who aren't that lucky. Should one put up with both? If any system doesn't work the way it should or is expected to, there is no reason why we shouldn't attempt to undermine it, right?

[Katuschka]

The things you post make me want to pop in my The Open Mind LP and make love to you all night.

My man is very strong and very jealous.

[euro]

You could ask the same question about poverty. I'm no socialist, but it applies to this as well. Empirically, the ones born in rich families have a much easier start than those who aren't that lucky. Should one put up with both? If any system doesn't work the way it should or is expected to, there is no reason why we shouldn't attempt to undermine it, right?

We do attempt to "undermine" it it is called a mixed economy which I support as I am not sure what the alternative is.What's is lost on many from the left is that government interventions do have unintended consequences which are not factor into their social engineering models

[Katuschka]

We do attempt to "undermine" it it is called a mixed economy which I support as I am not sure what the alternative is

That's still free trade in most cases, more or less.

I was asking for the sake of discussion, because your reasoning seemed a bit apologetic.

[spats]

It's a little more socially exceptable to have a woman ask her friend to talk to the guy she likes. It doesn't make it right, but women can sometimes do this. You wouldn't be turned off by that, but a woman may be turned off with a guy if he did that. You're not in school anymore, you should be able to at least strike up some conversation without the aid of your friend initiating anything between you two.

Who do you give your number to? Just random women? Sometimes, and I'm betting this word is a new concept to you, you may just have to persevere on with it. Why don't you ask the girls for their number's? Why don't you both exchange numbers? If a guy gave me his number I'd think that he wanted me to initiate the date and do all the 'hard work'. If you fancy a girl enough why don't you ask for her's? If she says no, then leave it. If she says yes, then the hardest part is already over. In my honest opinion, you've already blown your chance with this girl because you got your mate to ask her to call you. It makes you look weak in her eyes.

It wasn't my life's purpose to find someone. You make it sound like without that piece of eye candy, your life's ambitions doesn't amount to anything. You need to stop putting so much emphasis on the superficial aspects of a person.

You don't want a lot then. Face it, Spats, people age. Jimmy Page isn't the same man he was 30 years ago, but, you know, he has a different kind of beauty now than he did previously - dignity, grace, elegance (that's not to say he didn't have them before, they're just more emphasised now). My point is physical attraction changes with time, because we change.

But, because you want that bang! instant physical attraction - nay, you're desparate for it - you're actually willing to foresake the chance for a deeper meaningful relationship. You want lust over love. Lust wanes, Spats. Love does not. And that you think it's not a good thing to gradually fall in love, says a lot.

Show us your picture. Maybe we could be the judge of whether you're hot or not. In what situations do these women say that a man's hot? Could it be when drink is around? You can think you look like shit, but it doesn't mean someone else will. You can think you look wonderful, and, again, it doesn't mean someone else will.

I didn't give my number to random women just women i met at clubs and this woman i thought was hot down at Harbourfront. Out of all of them i though i had the best shot with her. But nothing. She never called.

Women may think that if i give them my number but if they don't intiate anything i may think the same thing. That they want me to do all the hard work. And if they don't initate i have no way of telling if they want to hook up or not. Women can be so lousy at giving signals they are interested. Asking a woman for her phone number if you have no clue if she likes you in that way is like is a huge mountain to climb.

If she had let me know she was interested in me in the first place it would have never even entered my mind to get my buddy to do anything. But you are right, it is too late to get anything going with that girl now. And she is being difficult anyway. I left a message for her with my number and she still was not satisfied. She thinks if i want to go out with her i should call up and ask her. No other way will do for her. And i shouldn't have to bow to her wishes on how she thinks it should be done. Good riddance to her. She can look for Mr.Traditional Alpha Male elsewhere. I hope she is not holding her breath for me to call.

The whole falling in love over a long time or finding the persobn physically attractive over a long time does not appeal to me because to me it means because i am not that good looking it took the woman a while to fall for me etc,. it means she did not find me that attractive and she has just got used to me. I don't want to "grow on someone" over a certian time period. That's lame to me. To me it just means that i am not that good looking. if i was great looking then they wouldn't fall for me or find me good looking gradually. They would be no question about it.

When the women have come right out and complimented on their looks it has happened at clubs. I am sure drink is sometimes involved but it still happens. Except not to me. And i gave you the example down at harbourfront. The only time women have been forward like that with me recently was at the Halloween party when i was dressed up as the joker. But they weren't really impressed with me. They were impressed with my outfit. If they had seen me without it it would have been probably back to normal.

[spats]

It would be really nice of you if you stopped putting words in my mouth. It is true that we were talking about this, but did I agree with you? No.

Sure, there are certain individuals who just can't see if one's a jerk (and it's certainly not limited to only one gender) ...until it's too late. There was nothing in what I said that would justify your argument here. As for myself, I have a very well developped radar for this, because the man I'm dating is not nice...He's lovely, caring and considerate. So stop talking bullshit.

You did agree with me. You agreed that there were lots of women who did not have the radar for spotting bad guys.

[~Bonnie~]

Seriously, I want to know how it is that you ask for and exchange numbers with women?

Because typically if I want to exchange numbers with someone, I chat them up for quite a while before I bring out the ol' "hey it was nice meeting you, we should go do something together sometime, here is my number"routine. You have to make a little bit of an effort. Because if you give your number to some woman you think is hot, without having properly engaged her in conversation, she's going to think you're a weirdo.

[Katuschka]

You did agree with me. You agreed that there were lots of women who did not have the radar for spotting bad guys.

There are seven billions of people on this planet. Surely there are lots of women among them who choose wrong men. BUT, that and "women don't really have..." are two completely different things. There are also women who really do have such a radar, but I'm not surprised that you don't know any, because they, quite logically, avoid you.

You are the one who generously denies this fact, not me. It suits to your limited picture of the world, my experience is rather different. It is the same as saying that all physically attractive men are Alpha Males and "bad boys," which is absolutely not true.

[docron]

My man is very strong and very jealous.

He doesn't have anything to be jealous about...

...yet.

You should try that album out though regardless.

[Katuschka]

...yet.

Never. I give what I get.

You should try that album out though regardless.

Ok.

[longdistancewinner]

If she had let me know she was interested in me in the first place it would have never even entered my mind to get my buddy to do anything. But you are right, it is too late to get anything going with that girl now. And she is being difficult anyway. I left a message for her with my number and she still was not satisfied. She thinks if i want to go out with her i should call up and ask her. No other way will do for her. And i shouldn't have to bow to her wishes on how she thinks it should be done. Good riddance to her. She can look for Mr.Traditional Alpha Male elsewhere. I hope she is not holding her breath for me to call.

The whole falling in love over a long time or finding the persobn physically attractive over a long time does not appeal to me because to me it means because i am not that good looking it took the woman a while to fall for me etc,. it means she did not find me that attractive and she has just got used to me. I don't want to "grow on someone" over a certian time period. That's lame to me. To me it just means that i am not that good looking. if i was great looking then they wouldn't fall for me or find me good looking gradually. They would be no question about it.

Okay. You're indifferent to her now that she never called you - but you're still whining about how she never called you. You're pissed off because she didn't do the hard work, and kind of expected it of you, especially since your friend approached her for you. She was expecting something, and you went to all that trouble of calling her - only to just leave your number? Why didn't you fucking take charge and suggest a date then and there? Why didn't you ask to do something, other than just saying 'I've done my part - now, you, call me back'? Sorry, Spats, you dropped the ball on that one. Again, she probably thought that she was made to do all the hard work. If you can't even be arsed to try a little harder, if only for the sake of one date, don't be surprised when 'Mr. Traditional Alpha Male' is getting some and you're not.

So what if they find you good looking gradually? Will your willy drop off if you're not instantly labelled 'hot'? Would you prefer to have sex in short little spurts - because you're only determinded to date someone who considers you hot and who you consider hot - or would you prefer to have sex regularly, even if it meant that they didn't think you were hot straight away, but, rather, they adored you for you? Wouldn't you want someone falling in love with you? Wouldn't that be better than having someone make a quick judgement on your face? I see a lot of hot guys, but they act like meatheads. You might look hot, but your personalilty? Not so much.