The Ossetian Conflic

[BIGDAN]

Hi all,

Now Russia has Putin in control, an ex KGB man, there was always a chance that the Russian government would want to regain it's lost territory, and the Americia government would act exactly the same if it happened to them.

Wether it's Russia, Georgia or Americia who started it, it's all about oil, and oil is money. So please people of this forum wise up, don't fall out with one and other, kiss and make up or shake hands, because we the ordinary people are not the guilty one's here, it's our governments.Regards, Danny

Danny,me boy,let's call you out on the carpet,you have done this too many times.How and when did America,and I'd like some facts ,start this?

KB

Hi Kev,

Whats your problem, the facts speak for themselves, what have I said that upsets you?

I ain't having a go at the American people here, I am pointing the finger at your Government, they are getting involved everywhere that there is oil, like they own all the oil or something.

You cant go around with your heads in the sand anymore, we all know that Americia, Russia, China, Great Britain and France want to carve up the world, we see it every day. But where are they when there is real need in a country, nowhere to be seen, let the aid agencies sort it out, but when it comes to oil, let go in there "Gun Ho".

The last time we spoke you said you knew what your government were like, what now you dont.

Regards, Danny

PS. And what have I done to many times? Dissed your government, well someone has to.

[eternal light]

I didn't say Americia caused the problem in Rwanda, it was a Belgium colony before it got it's independence. The tension in that country started when Belgium favoured one tribe the Tutsis over the other tribe the Hutu's. What I meant is that when there is a conflict in the world, unless there is something to protect then nobody wants to know.

Why does Americia want to help Georgia? because of humanitarian desire or is it to do with the oil pipeline to Turkey?

As for the Kremlin controling Europe's oil, well the oil and gas we use does come mainly from Russia wether I mind or not. And as for saying hello to their tank's, well we have said hello to your's since 1943, 65 years, and lets not forget that the US came to help Europe for it's own sake rether than some sort of benevolence towards the European People.

If Hitler had won the second world war we all know that Americia would have done business with him and cared less what was happening to the people under his control.

Regards, Danny

Russian Invasion of Georgia: Civilian Casualties in Gori

America remembers when Europe fell before previous invasions, and refugees streamed to the United States. It's the balance of power that concerns us and its impact on large populations that run screaming to us for relief. Also, many of our ancestors came from Eastern Europe, very fortunate to survive the annihilating attacks on cities like Riga.

As for the oil, the United States has already seen the abuse of power by Russia and simply trusts other countries more than it does Russia. That is because the American people have already seen what Russia has done during the Lenin and Stalin eras, and because many American citizens are of fairly recent Russian origins, being from families that were refugees from Russia during past conflicts.

My American grandmother was terrified of Hitler. I doubt that she would have wanted to do business with him. I would hardly regard it as a given that America would have done business with him and not cared about what was happening. I doubt that so many Americans risked or sacrificed their own lives to quell the Nazi advance just so they could do business with Hitler.

When the blitzkrieg raged in London, demolishing parts of the city, I suppose you think the United States should have not attempted to help? So am I getting this right, the United States should have just overlooked the bombing of London and a few other places in Europe?

This is what you can expect to see in the future if this conflict continues or worsens.

[BIGDAN]

Russian Invasion of Georgia: Civilian Casualties in Gori

America remembers when Europe fell before previous invasions, and refugees streamed to the United States. It's the balance of power that concerns us and its impact on large populations that run screaming to us for relief. Also, many of our ancestors came from Eastern Europe, very fortunate to survive that annihilating attacks on cities like Riga.

As for the oil, the United States has already seen the abuse of power by Russia and simply trusts other countries more than it does Russia. That is because the American people have already seen what Russia has done during the Lenin and Stalin eras, and because many American citizens are of fairly recent Russian origins, being from families that were refugees from Russia during past conflicts.

My American grandmother was terrified of Hitler. I doubt that she would have wanted to do business with him. I would hardly regard it as a given that America would have done business with him and not cared about what was happening. I doubt that so many Americans risked or sacrificed their own lives to quell the Nazi advance just so they could do business with Hitler.

When the blitzkrieg raged in London, demolishing parts of the city, I suppose you think the United States should have not attempted to help? So am I getting this right, the United States should have just overlooked the bombing of London and a few other places in Europe?

Do me a favour, Americia had no intention of helping Great Britain or Europe against the Nazi's until Japan attacked in late 1942, Americia then awoke to the fact that it was a global war and so came to help us in Europe, and I cant thank you guy's enough for that, very very much, but even though your people would not have wanted to do business with Hitler your Government would have.

And Americia would have done business with Nazi Germany, just as it does business with China despite China being everything Americia isn't. I would just like you to open your eye's to what involvement that your Government has in so many conflicts worldwide. I haven't got an axe to grine with the American people, but I dont like people sticking up for Governments when they are so so in the wrong.

Lets not fall out over this mate, Regards, Danny

[eternal light]

Do me a favour, Americia had no intention of helping Great Britain or Europe against the Nazi's until Japan attacked in late 1942, Americia then awoke to the fact that it was a global war and so came to help us in Europe, and I cant thank you guy's enough for that, very very much, but even though your people would not have wanted to do business with Hitler your Government would have.

And Americia would have done business with Nazi Germany, just as it does business with China despite China being everything Americia isn't. I would just like you to open your eye's to what involvement that your Government has in so many conflicts worldwide. I haven't got an axe to grine with the American people, but I dont like people sticking uo for Governments when they are so so in the wrong.

Lets not fall out over this mate, Regards, Danny

Let me see if I can remember correctly, was it the United States or England that brought the opium wars to China? And if I am correct, it was the United States that fought the Chinese-backed North Korea in recent years. Are you saying we should go back to that? We have tried to improve our relationship with China, not saying either of our countries are perfect.

As for Europe, many of the people who are United States citizens today came from ancestors who were attacked by the Nazis. Their ancestors came to the United States as refugees. Do you suppose they would have preferred to do business with Hitler? I doubt it.

[BIGDAN]

Let me see if I can remember correctly, was it the United States or England that brought the opium wars to China? And if I am correct, it was the United States that fought the Chinese-backed North Vietnamese in recent years. Are you saying we should go back to that? We have tried to improve our relationship with China, not saying either of our countries are perfect.

As for Europe, many of the people who are United States citizens today came from ancestors who were attacked by the Nazis. Their ancestors came to the United States as refugees. Do you suppose they would have preferred to do business with Hitler? I doubt it.

What the fuck do want me to say mate, whats your problem with me?

Your Government is shit.

My Government is shit.

The Russian Government is shit.

The Georgian Government is shit.

The Chineese Government is shit.

All fucking Governments are shit, it's always been that way.

Dont defend the indefencible, you need to read more history and think for yourself a lot more.

All governments want is power and wealth, and as your's, mine and Russia's are proving all the time.

Stay friends, Danny

PS. North Vietnam was backed by USSR not China, China backed North Korea.

[eternal light]

All governments want is power and wealth, and as your's, mine and Russia's are proving all the time.

Not everyone in government is self-serving and self-absorbed. Some people try in earnest to make a positive difference. Not everyone is apathetic.

PS. North Vietnam was backed by USSR not China, China backed North Korea.

I know an American Army veteran who fought in Korea.

February 17, 1979

China invades Vietnam

In response to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, China launches an invasion of Vietnam.

Tensions between Vietnam and China increased dramatically after the end of the Vietnam War in 1975. Attempting to expand its influence, Vietnam established a military presence in Laos; strengthened its ties with China's rival, the Soviet Union; and toppled the Cambodian regime of Pol Pot in 1979. Just over a month later, Chinese forces invaded, but were repulsed in nine days of bloody and bitter fighting. Tensions between China and Vietnam remained high throughout the next decade, and much of Vietnam's scarce resources were allocated to protecting its border with China and its interests in Cambodia.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history...cle&id=4769

[sweetangel578]

I'm questioning the validity of the propaganda that has lately been reported. My neighbors escaped through the mine fields of Hungary when Russian invaded in 1956, and I am not stupid about the way that works. What can you tell me about the Russian KGB?

Im not saying you are stupid. Propoganda exists in every country to some extent, it's unavoidable. But in the end there is only one truth. I think we sould not compare Hungarian invasion with the current problem simply because they are totally different. Besides, it's been more than half a century ago and it would make no sense to compare the communist government of Khrushchev to Putin's/Medvedev's government - we live in a totally different world now. And what do you wanna know about the Russian KGB? How it controls everything in Russia?

[BIGDAN]

Not everyone in government is self-serving and self-absorbed. Some people try in earnest to make a positive difference. Not everyone is apathetic.

I know an American Army veteran who fought in Korea.

I dont mean to sound rude, but do you not know that politicans serve the people who bankrole them to the get to the top of the tree, not the people who voted for them.

I'm talking about Rice, Rumsfiels, Powel, Cheney and Bush, not the minnows further down the food chain who do their masters bidding. And the Masters, those mentioned above, do their masters bidding. The people who have bankroled them to office want their interest's looked after.

Politics is the biggest cestpit you could ever get involved with, to me politicians are no better then Drug Dealers or People Traffickers, they dont work for what is good for their own people, but for what is good for their Rich friends.

You may think I'm apathetic, I think I'm a realist, I would love to see good, decent men and women in government. But how long would they last, without either getting framed for an indescrition or Assassinated by people working for their own government.

I'm at a loss at to your next point as it agrees with mine, you said.

"And if I am correct, it was the United States that fought the Chinese-backed North Vietnamese in recent years."

and I said "PS. North Vietnam was backed by USSR not China, China backed North Korea."

you then said, "I know an American Army veteran who fought in Korea.

February 17, 1979

China invades Vietnam."

As I stated earlier, it's our Governments who start all the conflicts in the first place.

Too many people will jump up in support of their own government while condeming others, we have American, Russian and Georgian people on here who have done that, well your all wrong. We should all be uniting to condem this sort of sabre ratteling as soon as it raises it's ugly head, not just when our so called enemy does it but also when our government's do it as well.

Regards, Danny

[maureen]

It's getting hot here. I just wanted to say..personally I ADORE Americans, people there are just great, I simply love them. I just don't support and do NOT respect the policy of their government.

Somebody has said here...that we Russians are just the same stupid assholes (sorry) as we used to be about 40 years ago. Wrong. How do you know that? Do you really know us, Russians? If so, you wouldn't say that. We've changed a lot.

Let's just try to respect each other and the most important thing - let's look at this point from DIFFERENT points of view cuz it's the only way to realise the REAL situation.

Love you.

[MadScreamingGallery]

It's getting hot here. I just wanted to say..personally I ADORE Americans, people there are just great, I simply love them. I just don't support and do NOT respect the policy of their government.

Somebody has said here...that we Russians are just the same stupid assholes (sorry) as we used to be about 40 years ago. Wrong. How do you know that? Do you really know us, Russians? If so, you wouldn't say that. We've changed a lot.

Let's just try to respect each other and the most important thing - let's look at this point from DIFFERENT points of view cuz it's the only way to realise the REAL situation.

Love you.

Good post, Maureen. I am American and I love my country but I don't always agree with the policies or the actions of the U.S. government. In fact, when I travel and when I have lived outside of the U.S., it's always been important for me to be judged on who I am and what I do as a person rather than on the actions of my government - or preconceived notions that people might have of Americans. Because of that, I have always tried to evaluate people based on who they are rather than based upon the actions of their governments.

[Zepaholic]

Good post, Maureen. I am American and I love my country but I don't always agree with the policies or the actions of the U.S. government. In fact, when I travel and when I have lived outside of the U.S., it's always been important for me to be judged on who I am and what I do as a person rather than on the actions of my government - or preconceived notions that people might have of Americans. Because of that, I have always tried to evaluate people based on who they are rather than based upon the actions of their governments.

Well said and absolutely the right way to be.

[wanna be drummer]

Hi All,

Well, now why all this hatred, surely someone can say something about your country that although you may not like, but is the truth. America, Georgia and Russia are all to blame on what has happened, but it is the governments not us the people that should carry that blame. The only people to suffer when this sort of think happens are the innocent.

Now Russia has Putin in control, an ex KGB man, there was always a chance that the Russian government would want to regain it's lost territory, and the Americia government would act exactly the same if it happened to them.

Wether it's Russia, Georgia or Americia who started it, it's all about oil, and oil is money. So please people of this forum wise up, don't fall out with one and other, kiss and make up or shake hands, because we the ordinary people are not the guilty one's here, it's our governments.

Regards, Danny

You missed the point. He got mad for someone saying something negative about his country. Then he turned around and did the same thing...

Hypocrisys a bitch

[eternal light]

You may think I'm apathetic, I think I'm a realist, I would love to see good, decent men and women in government. But how long would they last, without either getting framed for an indescrition or Assassinated by people working for their own government.

I'm at a loss at to your next point as it agrees with mine, you said.

"And if I am correct, it was the United States that fought the Chinese-backed North Vietnamese in recent years."

and I said "PS. North Vietnam was backed by USSR not China, China backed North Korea."

you then said, "I know an American Army veteran who fought in Korea.

Regards, Danny

And then you said China backed North Korea, then I said I know an American Army veteran who fought in Korea for the United States. You can see where the United States and China have conflicted in fairly recent years. I'm just clarifying the history.

As for your apathy, if you ever serve in office, you will find yourself challenged by maintaining such an attitude.

Wether it's Russia, Georgia or Americia who started it, it's all about oil, and oil is money. So please people of this forum wise up, don't fall out with one and other, kiss and make up or shake hands, because we the ordinary people are not the guilty one's here, it's our governments.

It's really more of an issue about the kind of entity that has or wants to get, power over you, the consumer of energy. In this case, the entity flexing its muscle has tanks in operation. It's similar to a hypothetical scenario where the local telephone company would be running military operations at your front door. I suppose you would just smile at them and say hello, how are you? Just park your tank in my front driveway and make yourself at home while I get us some coffee. And please don't shoot me, I'm right in the middle of something important.

It was not long ago that the Russian people did not have the right to freely elect their officials. I hope these recent actions taken by the disagreeing factions do not result in Russia becoming a military dictatorship again. I'm not looking forward to a return to the Stalin era.

The Georgia - Russia Conflict (War) Explained

Photos

[Atlas]

I'm not able to spend a lot of time online right now. My life is really messed up right now. I do want to pass this on. I'm sure it won't tell the whole story. It a 12 year old American girl who was in Ossetia when the war started. She says that it was definitely the Georgians who were attacking, and she thans the Russians for protecting her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Hi Danny.

Hi Kev,

Whats your problem, the facts speak for themselves, what have I said that upsets you?

Well,I have many,but's let's talk about this.

I ain't having a go at the American people here, I am pointing the finger at your Government, they are getting involved everywhere that there is oil, like they own all the oil or something.

In many ways it's the same thing.We elected our government .They represent us for good or ill.The pipeline though Georgia,if that and say that is part of it,feeds mostly European energy needs.

You cant go around with your heads in the sand anymore, we all know that Americia, Russia, China, Great Britain and France want to carve up the world, we see it every day. But where are they when there is real need in a country, nowhere to be seen, let the aid agencies sort it out, but when it comes to oil, let go in there "Gun Ho".

I can not speak or Russia,China,Great Britian,nor France.But the the United States of America(America is a continent,btw) spends more,donates more to counties 'in need' than any other in the world,period.Another btw,OPEC,they are least giving.Figure that out!What to talk about Bosnia?What oil there?President Clinton,bombed them to stop killing Muslims!Eeesh!

Are there any US soldiers in Ossetian?Gung Ho?Gungar din?

The last time we spoke you said you knew what your government were like, what now you dont.

i kne what they were like since 1975,I *don't* know what they are going to do.They have never asked me.You know why?They won't like the answers!

PS. And what have I done to many times? Dissed your government, well someone has to.

Let me ask,you and every non-US citizen on this great board this:When have I dissed your countries goverments?We have plenty dissent right here.

One more thing,actually two more,Russia is also disgruntaled because NATO has asked the so-called 'break away' republics of the USSR to join.Heady stuff.

Two,no attack on you Danny,my Tudor rose!

KB

[Atlas]

I don't necessarily endorse what this guy says, but is seems worth considering.

The geopolitics of Georgia

US attempts to get Georgia into NATO, coupled with its desire to erect an anti-missile defense shield in Poland and the Czech republic would give it first strike capability towards Russia. Moscow sees this as a national security threat against the sovereignty of Russia. Political economist F William Engdahl believes this is the geopolitical endgame being played out in Georgia.

[eternal light]

I don't necessarily endorse what this guy says, but is seems worth considering.

Poland is historically vulnerable to attacks from all directions.

5min.com/Video/World-War-II-Invasion-of-Poland

Posted 2 hours 3 minutes ago

Updated 1 hour 55 minutes ago

Russia says the missiles will make Poland a target (US Navy)

Relations between Moscow and Warsaw have reached a new low after Russia voiced fury at Poland's sudden announcement that it had reached an accord to install US interceptor missiles on its territory.

The timing of the announcement amid escalating international tensions over the conflict in Georgia infuriated Russia, which said the weapons were clearly pointed at Moscow and warned that they made Poland a legitimate military target.

Moscow, which has long been opposed to the plan, cancelled a visit by Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to Warsaw in September and dismissed the United States' assertion that the missiles were designed to deter attacks by "rogue states."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08...m?section=world

The Invasion of Germany on Poland

September 1st, 1939 was a day that a stronger country came to devour them. Germany attacked from it's own land to the west, form Czechoslovakia from the south, and from Prussia to the north. They attacked very quickly without warning. It was a military term of Blitzkrieg or lighting war. It first started with preparing the way with fifth-column activity behind enemy lines. Then massive destruction was brought upon the opposing air force on the ground. Next, destroying the communication and transportation systems from the air. Then, keeping the opposing enemy off balance to keep them from defending with strength. The next step was sending light force in the enemy's territory with motorcycle infantry, light tanks, motor-drawn artillery. Then heavy tanks come from the rear and started carving out mechanized pockets. Finally, sending out the foot soldiers supported by artillery, to deal with any resistance and join up with the advanced forces.

Russia's invasion of Poland

On September 17, 1939, Russia invaded on the East Side on the basis of a pact between Russia and Germany called the Ribentropp-Molotov pact. Russia and Germany had signed treaties with Poland a few years before, and France and England had given their promise to protect Poland in case of an attack in 1939. France and England had hoped that Russia would protect Poland, but it did not know about the pact between Germany and Russia. Stalin and his forces took the other half of Poland with its oil fields. Hitler had not known they would attack so swiftly because he had planned to cut Stalin off from the oil fields and Hitler's road to the oil of Romania.

The Fall of Warsaw

With Germany on the west and Russia on the east, it did not take much to take over Warsaw, the capitol of Poland.

http://library.thinkquest.org/26742/poland.html

Tensions between Washington and Moscow took a new turn on Friday as Condoleezza Rice, US secretary of state, called on Russian troops to withdraw from occupied areas in Georgia “immediately”. She made the call after Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgian president, signed a new ceasefire agreement with Russia.

***************************************************************************

At the same time as Ms Rice conferred with Mr Saakashvili in Tbilisi, Angela Merkel, German chancellor, was holding talks with Mr Medvedev in the Russian town of Sochi.

She criticised Russia in more muted tones than the US has done. “Some of Russia’s actions were not proportionate,” said Mrs Merkel. “Russian troops should withdraw from central areas in Georgia.”

Mr Medvedev said the west should not contemplate sending peacekeepers to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, pointing to the earlier refusal of Kosovo separatists to accept UN-led peacekeepers. The people of the regions, he said, “do not trust anyone but the Russian troops . . . We are the only guarantors of stability in the region”.

The tone and content of US and European statements on the Russia-Georgia conflict have been subtly diverging all week, with European nations such as France and Germany less inclined to isolate or punish Russia for its actions, while the US has been the most openly confrontational.

The US has floated the possibility of expelling Russia from the G8. The French foreign ministry said on Friday that it did not believe threats to exclude Russia from the G8 or other international organisations such as the United Nations would be constructive. “Our interests lie in maintaining dialogue with the Russians,” an official said.

German officials took a similar line although Eckart von Klaeden, a foreign policy expert in parliament and Merkel confidant, said Germany’s relationship with Russia “will hinge on its behaviour in the coming days”.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32664dba-6aca-11...00779fd18c.html

And Sheryl Crow had this to say, "I'm going to Soak Up The Sun, I'm going to tell everyone to lighten up."

[Atlas]

Consideration for 1900 maps of Europe, not withstanding.

[eternal light]

Consideration for 1900 maps of Europe, not withstanding.

Speaking of Europe, the Times and the National Post commented on this latest turn of events.

The Sunday Times

August 17, 2008

A divided West plays into Russia's hands

Don’t give Moscow the power to switch our lights off

After Russian tanks rolled with impunity through the streets of Georgia, scattering that country’s army into humiliating retreat, comparisons were inevitably drawn with the cold war. The difference is that most of the time during the cold war the West knew how to respond to Moscow’s aggression. Nobody could say that this time. What are the new rules of the game?

The ceasefire plan drawn up by Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, and endorsed by Condoleezza Rice, America’s secretary of state, is a triumph for Vladimir Putin, who is still pulling all the levers, and confirmation of the humiliation of Mikhail Saakashvili, the Georgian president. Russia set a trap for Mr Saakashvili in South Ossetia, which he walked straight into. The Sarkozy-brokered ceasefire plan, which gives Russia the right to roam up to 10km beyond South Ossetia into Georgia, makes a mockery of the Georgian president’s determination to “never, ever” permit the occupation of any of its territory.

Russia’s defiance persists. Moscow cocked a snook at Dr Rice’s insistence that the plan required the immediate withdrawal of its forces. At a joint press conference with Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, insisted on his country’s right to intervene, not just in South Ossetia but also Abkhazia. Russia, he said, would continue to be the “guarantor of security” in the Caucasus and continue to take decisions to “unambiguously support” the will of “these two Caucasus peoples”. The claim is that the region is Russia’s sphere of influence.

Mr Medvedev also implicitly endorsed the warning of General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of Russia’s general staff, who said that Poland had exposed itself to the threat of nuclear attack from Moscow by agreeing with America to place a missile shield on Polish soil.

Now the Kremlin is talking of rearming its Baltic fleet with nuclear weapons.

Mr Sarkozy, Mrs Merkel and Dr Rice have made a poor show of it but Britain’s response has been even more feeble. The excuse is that London’s relationship with Moscow was already too strained for any UK-led diplomacy to have been effective. But Britain is poorly represented on the world stage. In such a crisis Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair would be working in close concert with the White House. As a champion of the accession of former members of the eastern bloc to Nato and the EU, our voice should be heard.

What should the West do? Even if there is an element of bluster in Moscow’s outrageous threats to Poland, the situation in Georgia is real, as is the threat of a new conflict with Ukraine, with the Black Sea port of Sebastopol a potential flashpoint.

Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, is right to say that Russia must face the consequences of her actions. But apart from depriving Moscow of invitations to G8 meetings, or blocking membership of the World Trade Organisation, the list of possible diplomatic consequences is not long and hardly damaging. The fundamental problem is that an undemocratic Russia wants to dominate the democratic states that were once part of the old Soviet Union. Their ambitions, however, lie with Nato and Europe. The West needs a tough but realistic strategy, fast.

If nothing else, this fortnight has confirmed that Europe cannot allow itself to be reliant on Russia for vital energy supplies. Both Shell and BP have been the victims of Russia’s resource nationalism and Ukraine and Georgia have been on the receiving end of Moscow’s use of the energy weapon. Fast forward a few years and Britain and other EU countries could find the lights going out, courtesy of Russia, and there would be little anybody could do about it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/l...icle4547715.ece

Georgia: wake up Europe

Posted: August 12, 2008, 7:19 PM by Diane Francis

Oil prices did not jump after Russia attacked Georgia even though this is all about oil and pipeline locations and will result in higher prices in the long run. The strategy here is to discipline uppity nation-states, like Georgia, in the “near abroad” that used to be part of the former Soviet Union.

This is why crude continued its downward price trend, thanks to a push-back by consumers worldwide against high prices, but the Russian stock market and Ruble tanked. Investors don't like bullies who threaten their competitors as well as customers which is what this exercise was all about.

The bullying Bear

The Russians have been exerting their economic muscle throughout the region, shutting down pipelines temporarily, hiking prices unilaterally and generally making mischief. But they have been playing hardball with Georgia because it is small with only 4.4 million people and has a minimal diaspora to make a fuss worldwide. Moscow has financed separatist leaders and guerrillas in that country and there are now two breakaway provinces.

********************************************************************

All that's a sideshow

The real game here is about the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline which just opened last year and pumps one million barrels a day from offshore Azerbaijan to Turkey via Georgia. The line cost $3 billion, is 1,100 miles long and was built by a consortium of oil giants which includes the Azerbaijani government. Key here is that this line could pump 10 million barrels a day, or Saudi levels of production, by hooking up with other Central Asian oil producing countries so they can bypass Russian pipelines.

But that's not all that involved here. Moscow’s over-reaction was clumsy and unnecessary if only Georgia were involved. That’s not the case. Giving Georgia a good hiding sends a message to all of the former Soviet “near abroad” states – from Tajikistan to Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Don't build big pipelines, say the Russians, that bypass our pipelines and oil.

Specifically, Russia is opposing another proposed lines from Tajikistan or other oil-producing “stans” directly to markets in Europe, Asia or internationally through ports, as the newly-minted BTC does.

Russia's long-term strategy is to become as much of a monopoly supplier to the wealthy and oil impoverished European Union or Ukraine and others as possible.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...cow-vs-cia.aspx

[Del Zeppnile]

Not the Russian soldiers but the Goergian ones have already killed 2000 peaceful people. They have started the war, not Russia. Obvoiusly, the President of Georgia just wants to become a NATO member so he needs some territory. He wouldn't do all that stuff without support of the President of the USA. Soon everybody will know the truth.

Peace.

Truth???? From a Russian????

When has that ever happened?

No offense, but Russia has taken full advantage of this situation in order to expand it's territorial borders.... as usual. The fact is that the territory in question has been disputed since 1991. But it is also a FACT that Russia has had hundreds of years of imperialist designs on the land, as well as the rest of eastern Europe. And please don't act as if the oil has nothing to do with this either! So excuse me if I take a moment to remind you of that.

And besides, what if Georgia wants to become a NATO member? What business is that of Russia's?

We need to all finally accept what I have been saying for years, and that is that Russia is still run by the KGB, and can never be trusted.

[maureen]

Truth???? From a Russian????

When has that ever happened?

No offense, but Russia has taken full advantage of this situation in order to expand it's territorial borders.... as usual. The fact is that the territory in question has been disputed since 1991. But it is also a FACT that Russia has had hundreds of years of imperialist designs on the land, as well as the rest of eastern Europe. And please don't act as if the oil has nothing to do with this either! So excuse me if I take a moment to remind you of that.

And besides, what if Georgia wants to become a NATO member? What business is that of Russia's?

We need to all finally accept what I have been saying for years, and that is that Russia is still run by the KGB, and can never be trusted.

It's wonderful. It really is! How people in the 21th centure do not want to live TODAY! Hey, wake up! Our country is different now, KGB maens NOTHING today, ok? And if you don't know that I suggest you avoid saying things like that, at least find out the situation at first and only then make any conclusions. Really, I don't want to offend you either but please don't talk of things you simply don't know. We don't need any territory now, Georgia does. It's too small, it needs more territory to mean anything in the world.

[sweetangel578]

Truth???? From a Russian????

When has that ever happened?

No offense, but Russia has taken full advantage of this situation in order to expand it's territorial borders.... as usual. The fact is that the territory in question has been disputed since 1991. But it is also a FACT that Russia has had hundreds of years of imperialist designs on the land, as well as the rest of eastern Europe. And please don't act as if the oil has nothing to do with this either! So excuse me if I take a moment to remind you of that.

And besides, what if Georgia wants to become a NATO member? What business is that of Russia's?

We need to all finally accept what I have been saying for years, and that is that Russia is still run by the KGB, and can never be trusted.

NO, you'll find out the truth from the people of Ossetia, and they told everyone from the very beginning that it was the GEORGIAN government who started the fire for no reason. well, there was a reason - because the Georgians have been supressing the Ossetians for many years and now this region wants to be independent. And that does not mean in any sense that it wants to join Russia. The same goes for Abkhazia. Oil doesnt have to do anything with this. Trust me, we've got enough of oil, and for that matter - other resources too.

If you don't believe the Russians, listen to the people of Abkhazia. I'm not sure if they'll show this again, but Fox news has showed a live interview with a woman from Ossetia, who lives in America and she said that this war should be blamed on the Georgian government. The second she said those words, they have stopped the interview. It makes me wonder whether it happened because it was the truth or.....?

[eternal light]

Truth???? From a Russian????

When has that ever happened?

Glinka, Nureyev, Rachmaninoff, Solzhenitsyn, Stravinsky, Tolstoy

After his grandmother’s death, Glinka was moved to his maternal uncle’s estate some 10 km away, and was able to hear his uncle’s orchestra, whose repertoire included pieces by Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. He was about ten when he heard them play a clarinet quintet by the Finnish composer, Bernhard Henrik Crusell. It had a profound effect upon him. "Music is my soul," he was to write many years later, recalling this experience. While his governess taught him Russian, German, French, and geography, he also received instruction on the piano and the violin.

At the age of 13 Glinka was sent to the capital, Saint Petersburg, to study at a school for children of the nobility. Here he was taught Latin, English, and Persian, studied mathematics and zoology, and was able to considerably widen his musical experience. He had three piano lessons from John Field, the Irish composer of nocturnes, who spent some time in Saint Petersburg. He then continued his piano lessons with Charles Meyer, and began composing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glinka

There was nothing in his origins, birth or childhood to suggest where life would take Nureyev.

The youngest of four children, he was the only boy. The family were Tartars, coming of peasant stock in the Soviet republic of Bashkir, but his father, Hamet, seizing the opportunities brought to ordinary people by the Russian Revolution, become a political education officer in the Red Army, advancing to the rank of major.

Because Rudolf’s mother Farida was travelling with her daughters to join Hamet when her son arrived slightly sooner than expected, he was born in a train on the trans-Siberian railway, somewhere near Lake Baikal. His official birth date was 17 March 1938 although it was probably in fact two or three days earlier.

He was thus only three when Germany invaded the USSR, and had no memories of his father earlier than Hamet’s return from military service in 1946. This helps explain a lack of rapport between father and son, made worse because by then the boy had already fixed on what Nureyev senior thought the unmanly career of dancing.

From earliest days the boy had loved music, and at six he saw ballet for the first time. The family home, following evacuation from Moscow, was then a shared wooden house in Ufa, the Bashkir capital.

http://www.nureyev.org/

Rachmaninoff was born in Semyonovo, near Novgorod, in north-western Russia, into an aristocratic family of tatar origins (apparent in the Arabic stem of his surname i.e. Rahman) with strong musical and military leanings. His parents were both amateur pianists. When he was four, his mother gave him casual piano lessons,[9] but it was his paternal grandfather, Arkady Alexandrovich Rachmaninoff, who brought Anna Ornatskaya, a teacher from Saint Petersburg, to teach Sergei in 1882. Ornatskaya remained for "two or three years", until the family home had to be sold to settle debts and the Rachmaninoffs moved to Moscow. Sergei studied at the Conservatory before moving to Moscow alone to study piano under Nikolai Zverev and Alexander Siloti (who was his cousin and a former student of Franz Liszt). He also studied harmony under Anton Arensky and counterpoint under Sergei Taneyev. Rachmaninoff was found to be quite lazy, failing most of his classes, and it was the strict regime of the Zverev home that instilled discipline in the boy.

In his early years, he showed great skill in composition.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Rachmaninoff

Alexander Isayevitch Solzhenitsyn was born in Kislovodsk, a mountain resort in the north Caucasus, on Dec. 11, 1918. His father, Isaaki, was an artillery officer in the Imperial Russian Army in World War I. He survived the war but was killed in a hunting accident six months before his son was born. His mother, Taissia Scherbak, the daughter of a wealthy landowner, a member of a despised class, struggled to provide for herself and her son.

In 1944, she died of tuberculosis. Growing up, Sanya, as he was called, had learned the prayers and observances of the Russian Orthodox Church from his mother and an aunt. A family friend encouraged him in science. At 9, the boy decided on a career as a writer, and at 10 he read “War and Peace.”

http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3779

Stravinsky displayed an inexhaustible desire to explore and learn about art, literature, and life. This desire manifested itself in several of his Paris collaborations. Not only was he the principal composer for Sergei Diaghilev's Ballets Russes, but he also collaborated with Pablo Picasso (Pulcinella, 1920), Jean Cocteau (Oedipus Rex, 1927) and George Balanchine (Apollon musagète, 1928). His taste in literature was wide, and reflected his constant desire for new discoveries. The texts and literary sources for his work began with a period of interest in Russian folklore, progressed to classical authors and the Latin liturgy, and moved on to contemporary France (André Gide, in Persephone) and eventually English literature, including Auden, T. S. Eliot and medieval English verse. At the end of his life, he set Hebrew scripture in Abraham and Isaac.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Stravinsky

Leo Tolstoy, or Count Lev Nikolayevich Tolstoy (September 9 [O.S. August 28] 1828 – November 20 [O.S. November 7] 1910) (Russian: Лев Никола́евич Толсто́й, Russian pronunciation: [lʲɛv nʲɪkɐˈlaɪvʲɪtɕ tɐlˈstoj] listen (help·info), was a Russian writer widely regarded as one of the greatest of all novelists. His masterpieces War and Peace and Anna Karenina stand, in their scope, breadth and vivid depiction of 19th-century Russian life, at the very peak of realist fiction.

Tolstoy's further talents as essayist, dramatist and educational reformer made him the most influential member of the aristocratic Tolstoy family. His literal interpretation of the ethical teachings of Jesus, centering on the Sermon on the Mount, caused him in later life to become a fervent Christian anarchist and pacifist. His ideas on nonviolent resistance, expressed in such works as The Kingdom of God is Within You, were to have a profound impact on such pivotal twentieth-century figures as Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy

[marolyn]

I'm not sure if they'll show this again, but Fox news has showed a live interview with a woman from Ossetia, who lives in America and she said that this war should be blamed on the Georgian government. The second she said those words, they have stopped the interview. It makes me wonder whether it happened because it was the truth or.....?

i saw this as well and the look on the interviewer's face was shock as it appeared he had lost control of the interview(she wasn't saying what he expected her to say )...you could hear him discussing something with his producers in the background then he started talking over the woman saying we have to go to commercial, but ill let you resume when we get back...

was quite disturbed when they returned from commercial break, the interviewer kept talking over her saying i have only ten seconds, ok 5 seconds, ok we are out of time...

faux news...

[eternal light]

From The Sunday Times

August 17, 2008

A divided West plays into Russia's hands

Don’t give Moscow the power to switch our lights off

After Russian tanks rolled with impunity through the streets of Georgia, scattering that country’s army into humiliating retreat, comparisons were inevitably drawn with the cold war. The difference is that most of the time during the cold war the West knew how to respond to Moscow’s aggression. Nobody could say that this time. What are the new rules of the game?

The ceasefire plan drawn up by Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, and endorsed by Condoleezza Rice, America’s secretary of state, is a triumph for Vladimir Putin, who is still pulling all the levers,and confirmation of the humiliation of Mikhail Saakashvili, the Georgian president. Russia set a trap for Mr Saakashvili in South Ossetia, which he walked straight into.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/l...icle4547715.ece