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Wolfman

Ginger Baker trashes Bonzo/Moonie....

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If he's so much superior seems pretty pathetic and petty to criticize two deceased musicians...what does he get from doing this?

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ginger baker really is a better drummer to my ear. sometime just being louder isnt better.

You're having a laugh...it isn't just Bonzo's decibel level, it's his power, his speed, his efficiency...the entire package.

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Cream was pompous? LOL

Well, would a non pompous band make sunshine of your love? Zeppelin was pompous too acording to Pete Townshend.

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It's kind of messed up to ask Ginger Baker what he thinks of such and such drummer and band, but the stuff he was saying about Jagger was funny.

He's a bitter man, but people shouldn't be taking offense at him trashing other bands. If you knew you were damn good, and all of a sudden you're off hanging with Fela Kuti while the young pups that were studying you in the clubs are then playing stadiums when you finally leave (and not by choice), it's going to come as a bit of a shock, isn't it?

Graham Bond Organisation was a great band (the same band John McLaughlin was a part of) but they only did a couple of albums and few clips exist. Ask anyone who saw them and they said they were one of the best bands they've ever seen. Clapton had to REALLY want Bruce and Baker, knowing they fought like cats and dogs on and off stage, because he also knew there was nothing else doing what they did.

Cream was a benchmark in rock, even if their songs bore ya and their Farewell video makes you dizzy, they were game changers for musicians, and we got some hit songs out of them.

Would there be a "Moby Dick" if there wasn't a "Toad"?

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It's kind of messed up to ask Ginger Baker what he thinks of such and such drummer and band, but the stuff he was saying about Jagger was funny.

He's a bitter man, but people shouldn't be taking offense at him trashing other bands. If you knew you were damn good, and all of a sudden you're off hanging with Fela Kuti while the young pups that were studying you in the clubs are then playing stadiums when you finally leave (and not by choice), it's going to come as a bit of a shock, isn't it?

Graham Bond Organisation was a great band (the same band John McLaughlin was a part of) but they only did a couple of albums and few clips exist. Ask anyone who saw them and they said they were one of the best bands they've ever seen. Clapton had to REALLY want Bruce and Baker, knowing they fought like cats and dogs on and off stage, because he also knew there was nothing else doing what they did.

Cream was a benchmark in rock, even if their songs bore ya and their Farewell video makes you dizzy, they were game changers for musicians, and we got some hit songs out of them.

Would there be a "Moby Dick" if there wasn't a "Toad"?

Too bad for poor little Ginger, that is just how it goes sometimes. As you mentioned the great John McLaughlin you don't see him old and bitter because he was not playing stadiums, he was and is above that and lived for the music. Never cared if he played for 20 or 200,000 he was happy in the fact that he could create beauty and share it with the world. If some "got it" yet the majority did not it never fazed him one bit because that was not important, the beauty and creation was. That is the difference to me, McLaughlin and those like him (Plant is a good example) are true musicians, creating for the sake of creation and love, whereas assholes like Baker and Bruce care much less about the creation and way too much about the fame, recognition, and adoration. Those type are not musicians IMO, they are simply musical savants who being naturally gifted buy into their own hype and place the music a distant second. Of course not all natural musicians are like that, but those two (Bruce & Baker) are prime examples.

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It's kind of messed up to ask Ginger Baker what he thinks of such and such drummer and band, but the stuff he was saying about Jagger was funny.

He's a bitter man, but people shouldn't be taking offense at him trashing other bands. If you knew you were damn good, and all of a sudden you're off hanging with Fela Kuti while the young pups that were studying you in the clubs are then playing stadiums when you finally leave (and not by choice), it's going to come as a bit of a shock, isn't it?

Graham Bond Organisation was a great band (the same band John McLaughlin was a part of) but they only did a couple of albums and few clips exist. Ask anyone who saw them and they said they were one of the best bands they've ever seen. Clapton had to REALLY want Bruce and Baker, knowing they fought like cats and dogs on and off stage, because he also knew there was nothing else doing what they did.

Cream was a benchmark in rock, even if their songs bore ya and their Farewell video makes you dizzy, they were game changers for musicians, and we got some hit songs out of them.

Would there be a "Moby Dick" if there wasn't a "Toad"?

No most likely not..

There's no denying Ginger Baker's influence on John Bonham early on...

Bonham freely admitted this influence and acknowledged his admiration of Baker..

This makes it all the more puzzling as to why Baker seems so bitter towards him..

John Bonham showed him complete respect.

Bonham also went in his own direction. His playing became more direct, focused and incredibly unique.

By the 4th album he was completely in his own element... (at the ripe old age of 23)

Those 5 and a half tracks John played on the 4th album are all essential drumming... without a hint of Baker influence.

Just read Sag Rising's reply and couldn't agree more.. John McLaughlin influenced EVERYONE from Zappa to King Crimson.. Hell he gave Jimmy guitar lessons... Zappa's Mothers stepped up their game after seeing Mahavishnu live .... and not a hint of bitterness... But he is a special case,

Edited by the chase

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Pretty sad really. I'm glad that he didn't get involved in the recent Black Sabbath project, as I'm sure that the reunion would have hit the rocks like it has in the past. Baker has always been a miserable fellar, but now he's miserable and senile. It would be fun to listen to Baker and Ozzy having a conversation though.

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Ginger Baker returns....

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-ginger-baker-on-why-the-rolling-stones-are-not-good-musicians-20131011?page=2

Interviewer: "The Stones just wrapped up a tour. Have you heard them lately or what do you think of how they're playing nowadays?
Baker: (laughs) You're joking right? 


No.
I mean Charlie is a great friend of mine. I think the world of Charlie. When I was living in the States, Charlie came to see me at my house and he said, "I'd give you some tickets but I know you would never go!" I won't go within 10 miles of a Rolling Stones gig.

Why is that?
They're not good musicians, that's why. The best musician in the Stones is Charlie by a country mile.

I agree he is. But the way they play together, people argue, is greater than the parts.
People can argue what they like.

Do you agree they're great songwriters, though?
No, not really.

Are you a fan of the Who?
No. I knew Pete Townshend's dad better than I knew Pete Townshend. I worked with Pete Townshend's dad in the early Sixties and late Fifties. Keith Moon was a friend of mine but I wouldn't say he was a great drummer.

Dylan is still on the road.
Is he?

Yes. Were you a big Dylan fan? 


I'm not a big anybody fan.

What was the last record that excited you?
God knows. I don't know. I don't listen to music.

That [bassist] Jack Bruce contacted you about another reunion?
Who?

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Baker just played here in Chicago last night - Anybody go to the gig or see the Doc Beware Mr. Baker?

Yes, we've seen the documentary and it has been discussed elsewhere on the Forum...check the Other Bands/Music section.

Since Ginger Baker is obviously acid-damaged and a bitter old geezer now, it's a bit fruitless and unsporting to keep asking him these questions about other musicians. Who gives a rat's ass anymore what Ginger Baker thinks anyway? Let him live out the rest of his life in quiet anonymity.

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Ginger Baker returns....

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-ginger-baker-on-why-the-rolling-stones-are-not-good-musicians-20131011?page=2

Interviewer: "The Stones just wrapped up a tour. Have you heard them lately or what do you think of how they're playing nowadays?

Baker: (laughs) You're joking right? 


No.

I mean Charlie is a great friend of mine. I think the world of Charlie. When I was living in the States, Charlie came to see me at my house and he said, "I'd give you some tickets but I know you would never go!" I won't go within 10 miles of a Rolling Stones gig.

Why is that?

They're not good musicians, that's why. The best musician in the Stones is Charlie by a country mile.

I agree he is. But the way they play together, people argue, is greater than the parts.

People can argue what they like.

Do you agree they're great songwriters, though?

No, not really.

Are you a fan of the Who?

No. I knew Pete Townshend's dad better than I knew Pete Townshend. I worked with Pete Townshend's dad in the early Sixties and late Fifties. Keith Moon was a friend of mine but I wouldn't say he was a great drummer.

Dylan is still on the road.

Is he?

Yes. Were you a big Dylan fan? 



I'm not a big anybody fan.

What was the last record that excited you?

God knows. I don't know. I don't listen to music.

That [bassist] Jack Bruce contacted you about another reunion?

Who?

He sounds nuts.

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Ginger is coming off like a bitter old man. Why bother trash them. Bonzo and Moon always come up as the #1 and 2 in world wide best rock drummers. Along with Neil Piert from Rush.

Bonzo's playing suited Zeppelin, thats why the reforms have always been hard because Bonzo added a lot of color to Zep. Think about how hip hop has taken his beats to the next level.

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From Blabbermouth.net... Yes I know it was posted before.. but I'm not positive it was all included.. and there's an actual compliment included about Robert from Jack Bruce.. .

I was watching Beware Of Mr. Baker when I went on this search so maybe this post should have gone in the "what the famous say about Led Zeppelin" thread ....but close enough...

CREAM's JACK BRUCE Says He Was Joking About LED ZEPPELIN — Or Was He?

November 5, 2008

Jack Bruce of CREAM was in London Monday night (November 3) at the Marshall Classic Rock Roll Of Honour to accept the award for "Classic Album" for CREAM's "Disraeli Gears".

Bruce told Classic Rock magazine at the event, "Everybody talks about LED ZEPPELIN, and they played one fucking [reunion] gig [at London's O2 in December 2007] — one fucking lame gig — while CREAM did weeks of gigs; proper gigs, not just a lame gig like ZEPPELIN did, with all the [vocal] keys lowered and everything. We played everything in the original keys. [becoming animated]: Fuck off, ZEPPELIN, you're crap. You've always been crap and you'll never be anything else. The worst thing is that people believe the crap that they're sold. CREAM is 10 times the band that LED ZEPPELIN is."

This morning (Wednesday, November 5), Jim Johnson (a.k.a. J.J.) and Lynne Woodison of the Detroit rock station 94.7 WCSX called Jack at his home in London gave him an opportunity to clarify his comments.

"I was just having some fun with the press gallery, really," he said. "[i was being] fairly tongue in cheek, but it's also the truth….

I mean, obviously, those gigs that we did are now three years ago, so it's ancient history now. And they did do that gig, but they also hijacked that gig 'cause that was supposed to be a tribute for Ahmet [Ertegun; the late founder of Atlantic Records and mentor to many music icons], and we were going to be playing it, 'cause it was gonna be at the [Royal] Albert Hall, and it was gona be all sorts of people — the [ROLLING] STONES and all sorts of people were going to be playing — but then they kind of hijacked the gig and made it into a ZEPPELIN gig, and Eric [Clapton; CREAM guitarist/vocalist] and me decided that we didn't want to be a part of it — 'cause it moved to the O2, which is a quite large venue in London. And we thought it had gone in the wrong direction for us as a tribute to Ahmet .

. . 'Cause we were really happy to be doing it, and it was going to be fun, because Ginger [baker; CREAM drummer] was going to come from South Africa. And then Eric called me up and said, 'What do you think about doing this now that they're moving it to O2?' And I said, 'Well, I'm not very happy about doing that.' Because I don't really see CREAM in a place like that. We are more of an intimate sort of a band. We don't like playing vast places. The Garden is about our limit."

Bruce continued, "The thing about ZEPPELIN is that obviously it's a little bit of jealousy on my part — or more than a little bit — because the audience was created by CREAM and JIMI HENDRIX… this sort of very large audience… Then ZEPPELIN came along and had a very easy ride in that way. We were the pioneers and pioneers don't always get the recognition they deserve, maybe. But, on the other hand, it was true that they didn't play [the songs at the O2 concert] in the original key, and let's face it: Jimmy Page ain't no Eric Clapton… no matter what anybody thinks. . . I mean, the only decent guy, the one good guy in that band is dead… so what are you gonna do? [Laughs]"

He added, "You know my sense of humor… I have a terrible sense of humor. . . I was just having some fun. The trouble is if you say anything about the establishment… In Britain, you mustn't criticize the Queen or LED ZEPPELIN, basically."

When asked for his opinion on the possibility of LED ZEPPELIN going out on the road with someone other than Robert Plant on vocals, Bruce replied, "Well, I always thought Robert Plant used the wrong kind of fertilizer, anyway, so I think he might be an improvement… I'm just joking. Robert is one of the all-time, if not THE all-time, great rock singer — I'm not in that league; I'm more of a blues-type singer — and good luck to him."

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/cream-s-jack-bruce-says-he-was-joking-about-led-zeppelin-or-was-he/#M1ZYbdea8hEKjID9.99

Edited by the chase

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I read this interview, too. My opinion? I thought it was too funny, but at the same time... can you imagine him working together with anyone for a long time?

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Having seen Baker, Bonham & Moon play live, Baker is better then Bonham, Moon is also. Doesn't mean Bonham was bad at all!

IMO, Carl Palmer was the best rock drummer, Baker remains my favorite .

I wish i had the chance to see Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa

I seen Zeppelin, yes & ELP at Madison Square Garden in 1977. Im a yes fan, ELP was the best show out of the three JMO. I Seen The Who in 1976 That was a great show, Moon is an animal

I never thought Zeppelin was a great live band. One of the best rock bands of all time. Sound great on vinyl, great lyrics, pounding drum, white boy blues on the guitar.

I dont understand Stairway being the #1 rock song of all time when its not even Zeppelins best song.

Seeing Zeppelin live for $7.50 was a great deal! Now zeppelin cover bands want $30-$40

Enjoy a drum solo

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Brand new Forbes dot com interview with Ginger Baker.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimclash/2015/06/12/creams-ginger-baker-opines-on-heavy-metal-led-zeppelin-beatles/

JC: What do you think of Zeppelin's late drummer, John Bonham?

GB: Years ago, John said, "There are two drummers in rock and roll, Ginger Baker and me." There's no way John was anywhere near what I am. He wasn't a musician. A lot of people don't realize I studied. I can write music. I used to write big band parts in 1960, '61. I felt that if I was a drummer, I needed to learn to read drum music. I was so good at side reading, a guy in one of the big bands told me to get two books. I studied them at the same time, One was about the rules of basic harmony, the other how to break them all [laughs].

Edited by luvlz2

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How could the three members of Cream ever fit into the same venue or recording studio, with those huge egos??? :blink:

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Brand new Forbes dot com interview with Ginger Baker.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimclash/2015/06/12/creams-ginger-baker-opines-on-heavy-metal-led-zeppelin-beatles/

JC: What do you think of Zeppelin's late drummer, John Bonham?

GB: Years ago, John said, "There are two drummers in rock and roll, Ginger Baker and me." There's no way John was anywhere near what I am. He wasn't a musician. A lot of people don't realize I studied. I can write music. I used to write big band parts in 1960, '61. I felt that if I was a drummer, I needed to learn to read drum music. I was so good at side reading, a guy in one of the big bands told me to get two books. I studied them at the same time, One was about the rules of basic harmony, the other how to break them all [laughs].

Well... at least he called John by his first name this time. There's no doubt Bonham was a huge Baker fan, but I can't see him saying that. I'd like to see the original quote.

Unlike Baker, John always seemed respectful to other drummers. I know he used to beat the shit out of other drummers kits and once got upset that Karen Carpenter beat him out in a playboy drummer poll .. which was kind of childish. I mean, who cares? She was a very good drummer by the way.

John seemed to enjoy the drummer comradery and talking drums and drummers. If he thought a drummer was mailing it in though, he'd get irritated, like the time he dragged Chuck Berrys drummer off his kit and "sat in" But, he wasn't bitter. Unlike Ginger Baker.

Back on track, a friend of mine who is a huge Cream fan told me Baker learned to read music in a matter of days. Impressive and he's a very good drummer. But I think he's overrated and overrates himself.

Edited by the chase

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I wonder if Baker could read music in general or just for the drums? Two completely different things. When I learned to read & understand musical theory, I learned on the trumpet. The notes, tempo, meter, time, accents, etc. were what you would expect of sheet music you see in the movies and takes time to lear and learn properly. Sheet music for drums is very, very easy by comparison. There are no "notes" per se in drums, just what drum to hit, how to hit that drum, time, accent. I like to compare the two like this: Learning to read true sheet music for non-percussion instruments is like learning chess; learning to read sheet music for percussion is like checkers.

Anyway, just curious if he knew how to read both. Anyway, Baker is still a grumpy old asshole, one of the most naturally gifted drummers ever but a complete and total asshole to the core.

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Baker never did anything that impressed me the way John did. I know he's a talented drummer, but even so he leaves me cold. I know a little something about drumming and I listen to some of the best in the world, Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham, Terry Bozzio, Simon Phillips, Mike Portnoy, Vinnie Colaiuta to name just a few so it's not like I have no taste at all when it comes to my opinion of him. He seems like an egotistical asshole with a bad attitude where other drummers are concerned.

Edited by juxtiphi

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Can't believe how catty and petty all this has turned out. Baker and Bonzo are apples and oranges, but a quick listen to any of Zep's

live Elvis or Rockabilly jams within WLL show Bonzo's unmistakeable ability to "swing". And Baker's drumming on "Sunshine" is

unprecedented, leaving many drummers baffled. This whole thing is almost as invalid as trying to argue that Chet Atkins was a

better guitarist than Page. Yes Baker was a early innovator, but actually many rock drummers can't even play/imitate some of his

jazzier stuff.

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