Presence

[Tony Harden]

I recently made a post about the song and the hotel Royal Orleans.  The posts were all so great that I wanted to make a post on the whole Presence album/CD.

I love Presence.

My least favorite cut from the album would be Candy Store Rock.  I am not knocking Candy Store Rock but I like all of the others more.  I will say that I much more prefer Candy Store Rock to the studio versions of some of the songs from III.

Achilles is my favorite song from the album and that's probably not too big of a surprise.  Achilles is among the hardest tracks the band ever did and it also showcases the whole band's talents.

I have already said how I feel about Royal Orleans in my last post.  (Great song.  Should've been performed live.)

The big surprise at the Celebration Day Concert in Dec. 07 was when they performed For Your Life.  When the show was released I had people telling me how surprised and shocked they were at how good this song was.  I wasn't.  I was headbanging to For Your Life twenty plus years earlier.

Nobody's Fault But Mine is true Led Zeppelin!  If they weren't going to show off but two of the tracks from Presence then it would have been a crime for this not to have been one of them.

People brought up Hots On For Nowhere.  Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  I could never listen to Hots On For Nowhere because I can't listen to this song without head banging - not a pretty sight.     

Tea For One always takes me on a journey.  Achilles might be my favorite track from Presence but Tea For One is the deepest track on Presence; and they were correst in making it the album's closer.  Tea For One always has sort of an anesthetic effect on me but yet it certainly doesn't put me to sleep.  This should have been done live but at the same time I would have wanted them to keep it fairly close to the studio version, as they always did with: Kashmir, The Rain Song, and Stairway.

I guess the '77 tour was supposed to be the Presence tour.  I have never understood why they didn't showcase more of Presence on the '77 tour.

 

 

 

[Tony Harden]

2 minutes ago, Tony Harden said:

I recently made a post about the song and the hotel Royal Orleans.  The posts were all so great that I wanted to make a post on the whole Presence album/CD.

I love Presence.

My least favorite cut from the album would be Candy Store Rock.  I am not knocking Candy Store Rock but I like all of the others more.  I will say that I much more prefer Candy Store Rock to the studio versions of some of the songs from III.

Achilles is my favorite song from the album and that's probably not too big of a surprise.  Achilles is among the hardest tracks the band ever did and it also showcases the whole band's talents.

I have already said how I feel about Royal Orleans in my last post.  (Great song.  Should've been performed live.)

The big surprise at the Celebration Day Concert in Dec. 07 was when they performed For Your Life.  When the show was released I had people telling me how surprised and shocked they were at how good this song was.  I wasn't.  I was headbanging to For Your Life twenty plus years earlier.

Nobody's Fault But Mine is true Led Zeppelin!  If they weren't going to show off but two of the tracks from Presence then it would have been a crime for this not to have been one of them.

People brought up Hots On For Nowhere.  Yes!  Yes!  Yes!  I could never listen to Hots On For Nowhere - in public - because I can't listen to this song without head banging - not a pretty sight.     

Tea For One always takes me on a journey.  Achilles might be my favorite track from Presence but Tea For One is the deepest track on Presence; and they were correst in making it the album's closer.  Tea For One always has sort of an anesthetic effect on me but yet it certainly doesn't put me to sleep.  This should have been done live but at the same time I would have wanted them to keep it fairly close to the studio version, as they always did with: Kashmir, The Rain Song, and Stairway.

I guess the '77 tour was supposed to be the Presence tour.  I have never understood why they didn't showcase more of Presence on the '77 tour.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mithril46]

Well I think Jimmy was doing some unusual EQ settings on parts and whole songs. HOFN has so many overdubs and 

sudden EQ spikes, even today I have not really heard almost any guitarist do that live., to suddenly ramp up the midrange,dip the bass, and at the same time have high notes suddenly go from muted to shrill, and back. There is no

pedal for this. NFBM has none of this, or very little, so there isn't much challenge to do the song live. RO certainly

could be done, but even this song has sudden EQ shifts so some of the song would have to be adapted for live.

Actually, Dancing Days is probably a clearer example of what I mean to say; live certain parts were just not easily

replicated,  probably why the song was only done in 72'-73'. For Your Love was cool at 07', but even this song Jimmy

couldn't mix all the guitars together. Presence is high up there for me as well, at that time no one was doing the guitar

orchestra's like Jimmy.

[IpMan]

21 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

Well I think Jimmy was doing some unusual EQ settings on parts and whole songs. HOFN has so many overdubs and 

sudden EQ spikes, even today I have not really heard almost any guitarist do that live., to suddenly ramp up the midrange,dip the bass, and at the same time have high notes suddenly go from muted to shrill, and back. There is no pedal for this. NFBM has none of this, or very little, so there isn't much challenge to do the song live. RO certainly

could be done, but even this song has sudden EQ shifts so some of the song would have to be adapted for live.

Actually, Dancing Days is probably a clearer example of what I mean to say; live certain parts were just not easily

replicated,  probably why the song was only done in 72'-73'. For Your Love was cool at 07', but even this song Jimmy

couldn't mix all the guitars together. Presence is high up there for me as well, at that time no one was doing the guitar

orchestra's like Jimmy.

That is a fact!!! This album, for me, is like music in 3D. It paints an audio image and not just sound. It is music in technicolor & surround sound.

I have three friends who are classically trained musicians and this is their favorite Zep album. Presence, start to finish is a composition.

[SamoKodela]

It's an amazing album of many guitar structures, orchestral guitar harmonies, great drums and amazing unpredictable changes in arrangements that at least in Hots on for nowhere can be very playful and fun and the chorus is also great even if it's just Lalala and the guitar sound is quite varied and the solo is in a way so simple and yet with such stunning technical approaches and sounds and tension and then the surprise at the end, when one of the most amazing Page riffs, where he finally really catches up with complexity of Jonesy's  Black dog and the Ocean, repeats itself again and then the powerful ending sound.

I think Page is amazingly innovative and creative with such a great amount of guitars and makes them sound unique and appropriate for the compositions and lack of Plant melodic involvement and acoustic guitars, keyboards and the bleak, powerful guitar sound that is there throughout the album makes it a very unique experience of Led Zeppelin's strongest sufferings and struggles.

My favourite moments are Bonham's two fast drum rolls in the first part of Achilles, one is extremely fast, then the first melodic guitar ovedubbs when you remember again what else will come, the fast parts of guitar solos and drums under them, the tense slower parts of the solo and the numerous harmonies over the main riff at the exit of the solo! Always though the guitars on the second part of the song should be thicker but it wouldn't fit the album sound!

The Four your life guitar section with the air between when Bonzo hits the bass drum twice, which Jason didn't do, is also great and the after solo section too, Royal Orleans is fun although it should be somehow more similar to Hot dog with more melody even if it's funk, but it has a great Hendrix like solo so it's good, Nobody's fault has great sounding intro, really fast drums that fit really well, they are all just so tightly together on all those well arranged parts and the harmonica solo shows how big Robert's lungs must be, he is a tall well build guy sure, Candy store rock is weird rockabilly sort of thing and Tea for one is of all compositions the most exactly like it should be, the lenght, the slow solos, relatively low volume and a bleak melody are exactly what this song needs! It also reminds me how emotionally resonant this kind of complicated, loud, technical music can be and that you should always listen to it that way too!

It's a special journey for lovers of complicated guitar passages with lots of energy and resilience too life troubles and with no distractions from anything remotely pop music like! This is what Zeppelin was all about really!

[Mithril46]

Yeah, and much of what was commented showed how Jimmy was being expressionalistic and artichectural often in the

same song. Jimmy is a sound sculptor, not just a riff machine. There are Zep songs which are almost mathematical in

their structure, and songs which have a sort of amoeba like element. Like Achillies is pretty mathematical in its precision,

yet there are quite a few parts that have a fluid and bleeding quality as well. So many rock guitarists never get even close

to what Page was doing in the 70's and Presence. Jimmy was trying IMHO to evoke music which had such strong moods

or layers of symetries  which went way beyond just riffs.

[gibsonfan159]

I think the vocals were too soft on Candy Store Rock. I like to imagine Plant still having his high range for this. I think that would've made it way more interesting.

HOFN is the third best track on the album to me. Very catchy and upbeat. Tea For One is tied with Carouseumbrella for least listened to song.

[dandak]

22 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I think the vocals were too soft on Candy Store Rock. I like to imagine Plant still having his high range for this. I think that would've made it way more interesting.

HOFN is the third best track on the album to me. Very catchy and upbeat. Tea For One is tied with Carouseumbrella for least listened to song.

Different strokes for different folks. My top 10  zep songs (which is kind of fluid and in no order)  has Achilles, Nobodys fault, Tea for One, and For your life, all of these are on Presence.  But we are both into Zep enough to join this forum! I think thats cool.  I despise the last few minutes of Carouselambra but the first several minutes are pretty good. And to the OP, Presence is my all time favorite Zep album.

[EaglesOfOneNest]

Presence is one of my favorite Zep albums, if only for Achilles (a tour de force!) and Nobody's Fault But Mine. Can I admit here that Tea For One is the only and I mean ONLY Zep song that I dislike? I already debated the various merits of it with some folks on another thread. Everything else on that album is pure, awesome Zep; you cannot pigeonhole them!

[Xolo1974]

Horses for courses I guess. But I love Tea for One. I think it’s a cracking song

[Mook]

I think Tea For One is one of the best things Led Zeppelin ever done.

The whole LP is great really, it's probably the studio album I play the most in the house these days.

[Boleskinner]

Each to their own, but it's a snore-fest for me.

Like SIBLY grew up and got depressed.

Only bit I really like is the opening riff in the weird time signature.

[gibsonfan159]

On 12/5/2017 at 5:31 AM, Boleskinner said:

 

Only bit I really like is the opening riff in the weird time signature.

In my head I keep wanting that riff to come back in as the chorus or something. That would've been an awesome groove for Page and Bonzo.

[EaglesOfOneNest]

On 12/7/2017 at 3:09 AM, gibsonfan159 said:

In my head I keep wanting that riff to come back in as the chorus or something. That would've been an awesome groove for Page and Bonzo.

Yes, agreed! It starts off great, I wish they would have worked that opening riff back in somewhere a few times. 

[Mithril46]

Yeah, that opening riff is something in itself. I think the band could have come back to it, or play a variation of it later in

the song.. Maybe some don't like TFO because it is mainly a brooding song. SIBLY is slow blues too but there is much

more emotional variation in it or moods. TFO is basically I'm stuck here in this situation, I just have to deal with it, nowhere

to run or hide.. But that is my view on the music and  lyrics, others opinions may differ. Overall great album, at the time

Jimmy really was gold standard as far as imaginative guitar wizards go.

[johnlennon696]

Presence is certainly a favouite of mine. Achilles is my all time favourite Zep track. First time I heard it I was astounded and I have been ever since.

I also really like For Your Life too and Candy Store Rock is definetly a guilty pleasure.

Yea For One is like a forgotten masterpiece IMO. Yeah I know it strays too close to SIBLY for some but I love it still. It perfectly demonstrates the agony of Plant and co at the time into a song.

Edited December 10, 2017 by johnlennon696

[Mithril46]

What's interesting about Presence is at least where I live, It was the first Zep album to be discounted. Of course Coda 

quickly was discounted as well. I think that live because Zep only played Achilles and NFBM, that may have limited

it's exposure.

[marcio614]

almost all fans of led zeppelin do not know the truth about the group

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i want that you know that the presence is my favorite album and was the style exercise of the group is the more led zeppelin album of all and
really i think that it have a a great anxiety built into the sound that makes him very special and i if
it has not been so successful I think its the
listeners biggest fault because its a perfect album even if it is not musically versatile and was not understood
but I know there are some who agree with me that is good
and thank you.

 

[Mithril46]

It's very interesting that a mention was made about Presence's great anxiety. The whole group became tax exiles, and Robert and Jimmy have both mentioned that the situation the band was in felt unhinged and rootless. Jimmy being

likely the most nervous of the group, much of the music is frenetic, tense and pounding. Many of the tracks just

couldn't be done live, Jimmy was throwing in all sorts of tags and counterpoint in the studio arrangements.

[1975NQ]

On 12/21/2017 at 10:44 PM, Mithril46 said:

It's very interesting that a mention was made about Presence's great anxiety. The whole group became tax exiles, and Robert and Jimmy have both mentioned that the situation the band was in felt unhinged and rootless. Jimmy being

likely the most nervous of the group, much of the music is frenetic, tense and pounding. Many of the tracks just

couldn't be done live, Jimmy was throwing in all sorts of tags and counterpoint in the studio arrangements.

Great post. This album has anxiety ALL OVER IT which is not in itself a bad thing, I've always felt the angst over their tax status, Plant's injuries, and very likely more personal (maybe even unspoken) feelings about where they were in general at that time (re: the elephant in the room, drugs) made for some amazing inspiration musically. 

On 12/2/2017 at 1:52 PM, gibsonfan159 said:

I think the vocals were too soft on Candy Store Rock. I like to imagine Plant still having his high range for this. I think that would've made it way more interesting.

HOFN is the third best track on the album to me. Very catchy and upbeat. Tea For One is tied with Carouseumbrella for least listened to song.

I felt this way myself about CSR vocals for a while. As time went on, they really grew on me. They have a smoldering feel to them which makes the "payoff" section at the end really land, i.e. Plant lets go with the release after creating the tense build-up. It's like a weird take on old rockabilly that transforms at the end into something new. Kind of like how Dy'er Mak'er goes through it's own transformation but with zero good vibes this time lol. I think the whole track is genius, from how Page created an unsettled feeling with the opening guitar to how they played with the drum rhythm at the beginning (apparently it's in 4/4 but I never would have guessed it) and then at the end Bonham is doing this stuff that is just amazing (sorry I can't get more technical here lol).

I used to wish they were all more intense at the end, but now I think the approach they took was perfect. It's a release, but a cooled off release - minus the joy, minus the euphoria. Something about the whole thing sounds a little "druggy" to me. Not in the execution but with the general vibe of it.  But then maybe that's just my imagination.

Also - Merry Christmas to anyone reading!

Edited December 26, 2021 by 1975NQ

[McSeven]

For me Presence has only 4 songs that resonate with me.

ALS which is great.

FYL is a classic

NBFBM is great as well.

TFO is boss as well.

The rest are filler Zep.

 

[HollywoodBowl1998]

So interesting the different preferences of everyone. Personally I think Achilles Last Stand and Nobody's Fault are overhyped big time, as controversial as that is to say. Achilles is way too long and should have been dropped after 1977 in favour of new material. And he only thing good about NFBM is the very end where Plant belts out Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-nooooobody's fault. I'd kill to have them turn back the clock and do Tea For One live, even if just in a few performances. I wish they substituted it and/or I'm Gonna Crawl a few times in place of SIBLY; I do love SIBLY a lot, but there's probably over a hundred performances of this. And to do them all in one concert would slow down the night too much as well.  Candy Store Rock would have been good to hear live as well. So glad they did For Your Life at 02, I love that song live, they nailed it.

[Electrophile]

Presence is a good album, but I wouldn't say it's a great album, IMO. There are three songs on it that I think are truly amazing; Nobody's Fault But Mine, Achilles Last Stand, and Tea For One. The rest, for me, are filler. I don't dislike them, but I don't like them either. After the genius that was Physical Graffiti, it's kind of a letdown.

[1975NQ]

1 hour ago, HollywoodBowl1998 said:

 Personally I think Achilles Last Stand and Nobody's Fault are overhyped big time, as controversial as that is to say. 

On this site, it's absolutely controversial, but that's ok! It's good to be honest about stuff. I actually have the same opinion about ALS, it never clicked for me, and I found it boring. But then, hearing it live with some boots kind of opened it up for me, if that makes any sense. But as far as the album goes, I think it's incredibly well-played stuff and love how it sounds. Some of the songs def sound like filler -HOFN and RO to my ears. My fav songs from the album are Tea For One and Candy Store Rock, which I'm sure puts me in the minority with Zep fans. CSR is by far their most underrated song. It's genius and perfectly encapsulates where they were at that moment in time. The feel of the song is restrained with controlled tension there. The release is more cerebral vs visceral (which is very un-Zep like). An imaginary catharsis, if you will. Plant sounds tense, desperate and uncertain (in a good way) at the end. "It's all right" ...at that moment in time, it really wasn't. The irony was they were doing their flavor of rockabilly, and the main tenet of rockabilly is how free and wild it is and what a release it was (thinking of Gene Vincent and Eddie Cochran specifically). But this version has the opposite atmosphere.  

[BobDobbs]

On 12/25/2021 at 5:34 PM, 1975NQ said:

Great post. This album has anxiety ALL OVER IT which is not in itself a bad thing, I've always felt the angst over their tax status, Plant's injuries, and very likely more personal (maybe even unspoken) feelings about where they were in general at that time (re: the elephant in the room, drugs) made for some amazing inspiration musically. 

I felt this way myself about CSR vocals for a while. As time went on, they really grew on me. They have a smoldering feel to them which makes the "payoff" section at the end really land, i.e. Plant lets go with the release after creating the tense build-up. It's like a weird take on old rockabilly that transforms at the end into something new. Kind of like how Dy'er Mak'er goes through it's own transformation but with zero good vibes this time lol. I think the whole track is genius, from how Page created an unsettled feeling with the opening guitar to how they played with the drum rhythm at the beginning (apparently it's in 4/4 but I never would have guessed it) and then at the end Bonham is doing this stuff that is just amazing (sorry I can't get more technical here lol).

I used to wish they were all more intense at the end, but now I think the approach they took was perfect. It's a release, but a cooled off release - minus the joy, minus the euphoria. Something about the whole thing sounds a little "druggy" to me. Not in the execution but with the general vibe of it.  But then maybe that's just my imagination.

Also - Merry Christmas to anyone reading!

Check out Bonhamology's breakdown of the Candy Store Rock drum track. This song is a serious pain in the ass to play on drums and there are, I think, three or four turnarounds which are super tricky to pull off but Bonzo does it. Plus there is still some contention on exactly how he played it to this day. Funny because the three songs on the album with the most creative and interesting drum parts (RO, CSR, & HOFN) most consider filler songs though all three I really like. Presence is in my top 4 Zep Albums (PG, 4th, HOTH, & Presence).

Funky