Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[One Symbol]

How silly.

Can we now get back to the original aim of Steve's thread, and put all this childish B***ks of who knows more than the next person to bed?

I come on this forum for fun and to gain a bit more insight into Zeppelin.

There are many knowledgeable people on this forum, but only a few of them bother to post. I find that sad.

[Knebby]

The battle of SAJ vs. Knebby who claims to have so much inside knowledge. For all I know you are both full of crap, and unless anyone cares to provide proof otherwise, I will continue to believe that.

There is no battle and I have made no such claims.

[One Symbol]

Give it a rest Cactus, it's already boring!

[ally]

Well, I like many enjoy this Mystery thread. I believe it was the first thread that I posted on. It's informative and the collaboration of all who participate is outstanding.There are so many people here that can contribute worthwhile information to getting the mystery's solved. Hell it's just damn fun.

Next Mystery please

[SteveAJones]

Robert Plant: The Now & Zen Album Graphics Mystery

On the front cover of Robert Plant's 1988 solo album Now & Zen there are three symbols

down the left hand side beneath the red flag. The feather in the circle is a throwback to

his symbol on the fourth Led Zeppelin album, and he admitted deriving the "Wolf's head" logo from his favorite football club, the Wolverhampton Wanderers, but what about that

other one of three beneath the flag? What does it represent? It's meaning?

[SteveAJones]

Led Zeppelin: The Fourth Album Graphics Mystery

Jimmy Page has long maintained the inner album graphics depicting the Hermit on the mountain top (depiction simplified for presentation here...it's more complicated than this)

were done by Barrington Colby. However, so far as I know no other example's of Colby's

work have ever surfaced. Further, there is speculation Barrington Colby never existed,

that it is in fact an alias for Jimmy Page, who was of course an art college student.

Given that Jimmy has already admitted he was the one who selected the typeface for the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven which are printed on the album sleeve, the mystery becomes

did Jimmy produce the inner album graphics using the alias "Barrington Colby" or not?

[Stargroves Tangie]

Led Zeppelin: The Fourth Album Graphics Mystery

Jimmy Page has long maintained the inner album graphics depicting the Hermit on the mountain top (depiction simplified for presentation here...it's more complicated than this)

were done by Barrington Colby. However, so far as I know no other example's of Colby's

work have ever surfaced. Further, there is speculation Barrington Colby never existed,

that it is in fact an alias for Jimmy Page, who was of course an art college student.

Given that Jimmy has already admitted he was the one who selected the typeface for the lyrics to Stairway to Heaven which are printed on the album sleeve, the mystery becomes

did Jimmy produce the inner album graphics using the alias "Barrington Colby" or not?

On my Fourth Album sleeve, it says "The Hermit" Barrington Colby Mom. I wasn't sure if the Mom is an abbreviation of something or does it mean somebody's mom?

[SteveAJones]

On my Fourth Album sleeve, it says "The Hermit" Barrington Colby Mom

Yes, but Jimmy said the name of the artist was "Barrington Colby". It doesn't match.

If anything, this mystery has deepened.

[jabe]

Probably urban legend confined to the deep south...

Did Robert Plant receive some type of treatment to achieve the vocal quality on The Song Remains The Same off HOTH?

I was a young teenager when this album was released and vaguely remember some talk about this.

[shinedaddy]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankzappa/1461452890/

barrington colby artwork

Page: Actually, I tend to agree with you. But I do not know if I'm the best

judge. Robert and I came up with the design of IV together. Robert had

actually bought the print that is on the cover from a junk shop in

Reading. We then came up with the idea of having the picture -- the man

with the sticks -- represent the old way on a demolished building, with

the new way combing up behind it. The illustration on the inside was my

idea. It is the Hermit character from the Tarot, a symbol of self-

reliance and wisdom, and it was drawn by Barrington Colby.

The typeface for the lyrics to Stairway was also my contribution. I found

it in a really old arts ad crafts magazine called Studio, which started

in the late 1800's. I thought the lettering was so interesting, I got

someone to work up a whole alphabet.

also:

Led Zeppelin

I couldn't leave this subject without pointing out that the man in the moon appears to have found his way onto the cover of Led Zeppelin's fourth album. The cover is a painting showing an old man bent under the weight of a large bundle of firewood. I was told that Robert Plant had said that the painting was called "The Hermit", and was by a friend of his called Barrington Colby. I believed that there was a misunderstanding here: because on the reverse of the sleeve, there is another picture of a figure in white holding a lantern, which closely resembles the hermit portrayed on tarot cards. [5].

A few years ago my speculations on this subject were passed on to Barrington Colby, by "Rockhound" from Switzerland, who knows him. The figure in white on the inside cover is Barrington Colby's "Hermit".

But as for the man with the bundle of sticks? well a few years later Chad emailed me with a quote from Jimmy Page on the subject:

Jimmy Page: "I used to spend a lot of time going to junk shops looking for things that other people might have missed. Robert was on a search with me one time, and we went to this place in Reading where things were just piled up on one another. Robert found the picture of the old man with the sticks and suggested that we work it into our cover somehow. So we decided to contrast the modern skyscraper on the back with the old man with the sticks - you see the destruction of the old, and the new coming forward.

'Our hearts were as much in tune with the old ways as with what was happening, though we weren't always in agreement with the new. But I think the important thing was we were certainly keeping space...if not going beyond it. The inside cover was painted by a friend of mine. It's basically an illustration of a seeker aspiring to the light of truth.'"

I LOVE the way that the web allows me to ask strange, questions on obscure topics and get answers from complete strangers! But I still don't know who painted the old man with the bundle of sticks (rather disrespectful of Page and Plant not to credit the artist, on the album sleeve, unless the painting was by that greatest artist, songwriter and poet: Anon :-). And does the picture represent the man in the moon? The answers may be lost in the mists of time, but I have a strange feeling that somebody on the web knows. So if you can shed any more light on the subject, please leave a message in the guestbook

Edited April 9, 2008 by shinedaddy

[SteveAJones]

Page: We then came up with the idea of having the picture -- the man with the sticks -- represent the old way on a demolished building, with the new way combing up behind it. The illustration on the inside was my idea. It is the Hermit character from the Tarot, a symbol of self-reliance and wisdom, and it was drawn by Barrington Colby.

The typeface for the lyrics to Stairway was also my contribution. I found it in a really old arts ad crafts magazine called Studio, which started in the late 1800's. I thought the lettering was so interesting, I got someone to work up a whole alphabet.

This idea of a "new world rising from the shambles of the old" is expressed quite clearly in the lyrics for 'The Rover' on Physical Graffiti, released four years later.

Insofar as the fourth album I was attempting to focus specifically on the inner artwork

but certainly, the front cover is also mysterious. Does anyone really believe a portrait

found in a Redding junk shop adorns one of the world's most successful rock albums?

Jimmy was so meticulous concerning every possible aspect of this album -- graphics,

the content, the release without a title. Some believe the portrait on the front cover

depicts one of England's most prominent occult figures.

Whom would Jimmy have commissioned to work up an alphabet? Why is this person neither named nor credited? Would Jimmy not have been capable of this task himself?

The Hermit of the Tarot does not bear horns, but The Hermit of Led Zeppelin IV does.

Just an observation on my part. Besides, it's just "Colby's" rendition, right?

Just more mystery concerning Led Zeppelin IV!

Edited April 10, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Did Robert Plant receive some type of treatment to achieve the vocal quality on The Song Remains The Same off HOTH? I was a young teenager when this album was released and vaguely remember some talk about this.

Clearly, some effects have been applied to the vocal track. It seems to have been done

to give the song more "momentum". The listeners are "propelled" thru the distant lands and places he sings of, where "the song remains the same". This may also have been achieved by manipulating the playback speed of the master tape for the vocal track.

I'm not an audio engineer! The incomparable Eddie Kramer would be able to cite specifics but I don't believe he has ever done so publicly.

Edited April 10, 2008 by SteveAJones

[3hrsoflunacy]

Steve,

Do you what year Eddie Van Halen made is now famous remark about Jimmy's playing ability? IIRC it was something to the tune of being a two year old with broken fingers.

[shinedaddy]

This idea of a "new world rising from the shambles of the old" is expressed quite clearly in the lyrics for 'The Rover' on Physical Graffiti, released four years later.

Insofar as the fourth album I was attempting to focus specifically on the inner artwork

but certainly, the front cover is also mysterious. Does anyone really believe a portrait

found in a Redding junk shop adorns one of the world's most successful rock albums?

Jimmy was so meticulous concerning every possible aspect of this album -- graphics,

the content, the release without a title. Some believe the portrait on the front cover

depicts one of England's most prominent occult figures.

Whom would Jimmy have commissioned to work up an alphabet? Why is this person neither named nor credited? Would Jimmy not have been capable of this task himself?

The Hermit of the Tarot does not bear horns, but The Hermit of Led Zeppelin IV does.

Just an observation on my part. Besides, it's just "Colby's" rendition, right?

Just more mystery concerning Led Zeppelin IV!

I think that my link and my pasted info pretty much confirms that B Colby is a real and distinct person. Mystery solved, right

Here is one for you.....Peter Clifton and Joe Massot were both hired, seperately and in succession, to film/finish the 1973 footage for TSRTS, filmed during the very last leg of the American 1973 tour....One of them, I forget which now (I believe Clifton), had previously worked with the band and filmed them during their spring 1970 American tour. The question is, what city(ies) did they film in and what constitutes the majority of the footage? Is it black and white, color, live, offstage, or what? And secondly, who currently owns the masters, or do they even exist at all?

Edited April 10, 2008 by shinedaddy

[deluxe]

Clearly, some effects have been applied to the vocal track. It seems to have been done

to give the song more "momentum". The listeners are "propelled" thru the distant lands and places he sings of, where "the song remains the same". This may also have been achieved by manipulating the playback speed of the master tape for the vocal track.

I'm not an audio engineer! The incomparable Eddie Kramer would be able to cite specifics but I don't believe he has ever done so publicly.

Not sure, but will check my references, but I remember reading that no effects were put on Robert's voice and that surprised me because I always thought something was on it. I'll check and get back.

[SteveAJones]

Steve,

Do you what year Eddie Van Halen made is now famous remark about Jimmy's playing ability? IIRC it was something to the tune of being a two year old with broken fingers.

For such a "famous" remark I've never heard it and you've not cited it. Eddie has said

he was inspired to create some of his techniques after watching Jimmy Page perform

the solo for 'Heartbreaker' at the Forum in Inglewood, CA in '71 or '72. If he ever said

something like that it's really no different than Slash's comment following Jimmy's Oct 7th 1988 concert at The Forum:"I love Jimmy Page, but man, he bores the fuck out of me sometimes". Slash was of course on his way to gunslinger glory with G n' R when he

said it. A lot of what these guys say about Jimmy can be put down to "feeling their oats". It's the Braggadocio Olympics.

[Mattmc1973]

Clearly, some effects have been applied to the vocal track. It seems to have been done

to give the song more "momentum". The listeners are "propelled" thru the distant lands and places he sings of, where "the song remains the same". This may also have been achieved by manipulating the playback speed of the master tape for the vocal track.

I'm not an audio engineer! The incomparable Eddie Kramer would be able to cite specifics but I don't believe he has ever done so publicly.

I'd always heard that his voice was sped up on that track, making it higher in pitch.

[SteveAJones]

I think that my link and my pasted info pretty much confirms that B Colby is a real and

I wish it were that easy. Your post proclaiming Colby's existence cites Robert Plant as having said he commissioned Colby, thus throwing all that followed into doubt. Perhaps that was the result of a typo.

I will certainly look into what footage exists. In the meantime, I can mention journalist

Chris Welch accompanied them on their short German tour (July 16-19 1970). They

took a 5 1/2 hour train ride south along the Rhein from Dusseldorf to Frankfurt for that

night's concert. Anyway, some of the 8mm home movie footage Chris shot during this

time was available on You Tube and probably still is.

[Mattmc1973]

For such a "famous" remark I've never heard it and you've not cited it.

"Jimmy Page is an excellent producer. Led Zeppelin 1 and Led Zeppelin 2 are classics. As a player. He's very good in the studio. I never saw him play well live. He's very sloppy. He plays like he's got a broken hand and he's two years old. But if you put out a good album and play like a two-year-old live. What's the purpose?" - Guitar World, January 1981

[SteveAJones]

Not sure, but will check my references, but I remember reading that no effects were put on Robert's voice and that surprised me because I always thought something was on it. I'll check and get back.

I'm using the term "effects" very loosely here. It certainly isn't "raw" and the evidence suggests the track was sped up.

[SteveAJones]

"Jimmy Page is an excellent producer. Led Zeppelin 1 and Led Zeppelin 2 are classics. As a player. He's very good in the studio. I never saw him play well live. He's very sloppy. He plays like he's got a broken hand and he's two years old. But if you put out a good album and play like a two-year-old live. What's the purpose?" - Guitar World, January 1981

Oh, excellent! Thanks for that. Eddie Van Halen's comments in their original context. Well, I must say they are not very flattering. 1981? The rascal is feeling his oats!

It's funny, if Eddie attended the 5/31/73 show at The Forum Jimmy was performing with a sprained finger, sustained the day before. I'll have to check if he was there for any of

the June 21-23, 25-27 1977 gigs at the Forum. May have been touring with Van Halen

and missed those. Earlier in the thread someone wondered aloud who cares if Eddie met

Bonzo so I'll note in advance some may care not the Led Zeppelin concerts he attended.

Edited April 10, 2008 by SteveAJones

[Stargroves Tangie]

Found the following using a Google search from www.allexperts.com

You are here: Experts > Music/Performing Arts > Classic Rock > Led Zeppelin > The inside cover of Zep 4

Follow-Ups to Answer from Expert Chris M. Zangara

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

iain writes on 2007-12-10 21:42:38

Hi erin.

In answer to your who/why for the inside of led zep 4 is Barrington Colby.

Barrington apparently was friends with the band long before they became famous.

He drew the hermit for them and it was used as centre cover.

Last I knew about barrington was 1980ish...he lived in Norwich and was married with a young son. I have a wonderful hand painted cigarette tin by him as a xmas present from those days.

Hope this helps.

iain.

[StringBender]

It's funny, if Eddie attended the 5/31/73 show at The Forum Jimmy was performing with a sprained finger, sustained the day before. I'll have to check if he was there for any of

the June 21-23, 25-27 1977 gigs at the Forum. May have been touring with Van Halen

and missed those. Earlier in the thread someone wondered aloud who cares if Eddie met

Bonzo so I'll note in advance some may care not the Led Zeppelin concerts he attended.

Are you going to conduct an interview with him?

[SteveAJones]

Found the following using a Google search from www.allexperts.com

Thanks, for that. I know Chris Z. He's a great guy and very knowledgeable. However, the information pertaining to Colby was posted by someone whom I cannot vouch for. It's intriguing in that it does provide some leads, if accurate. Many thanks!

[deluxe]

I'm using the term "effects" very loosely here. It certainly isn't "raw" and the evidence suggests the track was sped up.

I'll look for exactly what Page said regarding this tune. I have it somewhere. Until then, here is some evidence to suggest the tape wasn't sped up. I have never read 'evidence' that the tape was sped up before.

Guitar World 1993 -

GW: "Houses" is so bright-sounding. Did you vari-speed the tape up a notch to

get everything to sparkle more??

Page: No, the only song I can think of that we vari-speeded up were a couple

of overdubs on "Achilles Last Stand". However, I applied the vari-speed to

the overall track of "No Quarter". I dropped the whole song a quarter

tone because it made the track sound so much thicker and more intense.

http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/interviews/page_93.gw

Songfacts -

"The Song Remains the Same" features a furious, galloping rhythm and beautifully shimmering, multi-tracked guitar from Jimmy Page. Lead singer Robert Plant's vocals were raised an octave during mixing. Original working titles were "The Overture", "The Campaign" and even simply "Zep".

http://forum.songfacts.com/showtopic.php?tid/140570/

Edited April 10, 2008 by deluxe