Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[MrZoSo]

I don't think it's ever been clarified if Robert sold off his songwriter royalties or his Led Zeppelin royalties.

The band, along with Atlantic, own the rights to the lyrics. If you remember, Robert had made it an issue about sampling Jimmy's licks on his Tall Cool One song. He said that Atlantic could not sue him for using them, as it would be tough to prove that it wasn't Jimmy doing it in present day.

When asked in a BBC interview about the fortune he must be making in royalties off of Zeps music Plant said, I sold them years ago.

I don't have the interview, and honestly, do not know it to be fact. I am going by memory.

[Cactus]

TIf you remember, Robert had made it an issue about sampling Jimmy's licks on his Tall Cool One song. He said that Atlantic could not sue him for using them, as it would be tough to prove that it wasn't Jimmy doing it in present day.

But by saying that, doesn't he then prove that he did sample it and it wasn't a re-recording? That doesn't make sense to me.

[MrZoSo]

But by saying that, doesn't he then prove that he did sample it and it wasn't a re-recording? That doesn't make sense to me.

Not everything makes sense, or can be explained. Everyone knew it was Zep samples. I believe Robert was pointing out that in a sense of being sued by Atlantic for using his own music it was not going to stand in court, as it is him, and Jimmy. Absurd to think of such a thing yes? I doubt he was serious, but his point is not to be taken lightly. Look what took place with John Fogerty of CCR.

[ledwallett]

Not everything makes sense, or can be explained. Everyone knew it was Zep samples. I believe Robert was pointing out that in a sense of being sued by Atlantic for using his own music it was not going to stand in court, as it is him, and Jimmy. Absurd to think of such a thing yes? I doubt he was serious, but his point is not to be taken lightly. Look what took place with John Fogerty of CCR.

I think it was in rolling stone when he did the cover for Now and Zen album that he talked about it.

[SteveAJones]

I think it was in rolling stone when he did the cover for Now and Zen album that he talked about it.

'The Rolling Stone Interview: Robert Plant', published in the March 24, 1988 issue. My

copy is out of reach for a couple more weeks but perhaps someone else can post his quotes on having sold his rights to royalties on Led Zeppelin's back catalog.

[ledwallett]

'The Rolling Stone Interview: Robert Plant', published in the March 24, 1988 issue. My

copy is out of reach for a couple more weeks but perhaps someone else can post his quotes on having sold his rights to royalties on Led Zeppelin's back catalog.

I meant the sampling stuff. Not the royalties. Sorry.

[SteveAJones]

If you remember, Robert had made it an issue about sampling Jimmy's licks on his Tall Cool One song. He said that Atlantic could not sue him for using them, as it would be tough to prove that it wasn't Jimmy doing it in present day. When asked in a BBC interview about the fortune he must be making in royalties off of Zeps music Plant said, I sold them years ago. I don't have the interview, and honestly, do not know it to be fact. I am going by memory.

Well again, as I recall he sold his rights to royalties on the sales of Led Zeppelin's back catalog, not his rights to royalties on publishing as a songwriter.

I don't see why Atlantic Records would sue him for sampling Jimmy's guitar from Led Zeppelin recordings for use in Tall Cool One, as Atlantic Records holds the copyright for all the songs. I suppose there's the remote possibility his management failed to secure a licensing agreement with Atlantic Records to do so, but again I can see no motivation for them to sue an artist (Plant) who is on their label using samples from another artist (Zep) on their label. I believe Robert has quipped he could have sued himself for doing it.

Edited May 8, 2008 by SteveAJones

[ro_a]

Robert Plant did sell his rights to royalties from Led Zeppelin's back catalog circa 1983.

This was during the height of New Wave Pop & New Wave British Heavy Metal music.

I believe he sold them to the label (Atlantic Records).

There was a 20th Anniversary single for 'Stairway to Heaven' but Director Richard Linklater was told he could not use Led Zeppelin music in 'Dazed And Confused' despite having held a favorable private screening with Page/Plant. Some internet sites infer Jones & Page approved but Robert opposed and exerted 1/3 creative control. I

don't specifically remember but I seem to recall Linklater was simply told it was a

"band decision". They had yet to allow their music to be used in any films at that time.

That is an unbelievably bad business decision. He must have wanted the break emotionally. No wonder he makes the most records post Zep.

[SteveAJones]

That is an unbelievably bad business decision. He must have wanted the break emotionally. No wonder he makes the most records post Zep.

Linklater was devestated when he ultimately received word no Led Zeppelin music would be approved for use in that film, 'Dazed And Confused'. The private screening with Jimmy

and Robert had gone so well, it seemed certain they would allow it. IMHO, that film is a

classic on it's own, but the incorporation of some Led Zeppelin music would have added

to it's authenticity.

[mos6507]

Linklater was devestated when he ultimately received word no Led Zeppelin music would be approved for use in that film, 'Dazed And Confused'. The private screening with Jimmy

and Robert had gone so well, it seemed certain they would allow it. IMHO, that film is a

classic on it's own, but the incorporation of some Led Zeppelin music would have added

to it's authenticity.

That was before they decided it was OK to prostitute the music out in Caddy commercials.

[SteveAJones]

That was before they decided it was OK to prostitute the music out in Caddy commercials.

That's a rather harsh characterization. As I've pointed out before, Cadillac's link to rock n' roll goes back six decades. Led Zeppelin performed Chuck Berry's 'Cadillac, No Money Down' during concert medleys. A Cadillac is referred to in the lyrics for 'Livin' Lovin' Maid (She's Just A Woman)'. Jimmy Page and Paul Rodgers wrote the song 'Cadillac' while in The Firm. Robert was photographed in a Cadillac to promote the single for 'Big Log'. On

August 22nd 2002 he attended Cadillac's 100th Anniversary at the GM World HQ in Detroit and was thrilled by the experience. He walked in with his camcorder in his hand filming and he paused to record the promotional poster for the event for cryin' out loud!

Edited May 8, 2008 by SteveAJones

[reids]

... and they rode in Cadillacs to and from their gigs to their airplane(s).

R

[MrZoSo]

Well again, as I recall he sold his rights to royalties on the sales of Led Zeppelin's back catalog, not his rights to royalties on publishing as a songwriter.

I don't see why Atlantic Records would sue him for sampling Jimmy's guitar from Led Zeppelin recordings for use in Tall Cool One, as Atlantic Records holds the copyright for all the songs. I suppose there's the remote possibility his management failed to secure a licensing agreement with Atlantic Records to do so, but again I can see no motivation for them to sue an artist (Plant) who is on their label using samples from another artist (Zep) on their label. I believe Robert has quipped he could have sued himself for doing it.

Semantics. He did discuss it in an interview, whether it makes sense, or not. The content in which it was brought up, I can't remember, but it was talked about.

[SunChild]

That's a rather harsh characterization. As I've pointed out before, Cadillac's link to rock n' roll goes back six decades. Led Zeppelin performed Chuck Berry's 'Cadillac, No Money Down' during concert medleys. A Cadillac is referred to in the lyrics for 'Livin' Lovin' Maid (She's Just A Woman)'. Jimmy Page and Paul Rodgers wrote the song 'Cadillac' while in The Firm. Robert was photographed in a Cadillac to promote the single for 'Big Log'. On

August 22nd 2002 he attended Cadillac's 100th Anniversary at the GM World HQ in Detroit and was thrilled by the experience. He walked in with his camcorder in his hand filming and he paused to record the promotional poster for the event for cryin' out loud!

Not to mention, I've always thought that at the time, Zeppelin probably made more money than Cadillac off the deal. Or just made more money than Cadillac, period. So it could hardly be "selling out."

[Evster2012]

This idea of a "new world rising from the shambles of the old" is expressed quite clearly in the lyrics for 'The Rover' on Physical Graffiti, released four years later.

Insofar as the fourth album I was attempting to focus specifically on the inner artwork

but certainly, the front cover is also mysterious. Does anyone really believe a portrait

found in a Redding junk shop adorns one of the world's most successful rock albums?

Jimmy was so meticulous concerning every possible aspect of this album -- graphics,

the content, the release without a title. Some believe the portrait on the front cover

depicts one of England's most prominent occult figures.

Whom would Jimmy have commissioned to work up an alphabet? Why is this person neither named nor credited? Would Jimmy not have been capable of this task himself?

The Hermit of the Tarot does not bear horns, but The Hermit of Led Zeppelin IV does.

Just an observation on my part. Besides, it's just "Colby's" rendition, right?

Just more mystery concerning Led Zeppelin IV!

I was of the understanding that Jimmy found the typeface in a book, rather than having it commissioned.

As for the picture, I don't think it need be a mystery. Perhaps Jimmy just liked it. Afterall, look at the third album. He hated that artwork.

"one of England's most prominent occult figures" As one of the most prominent, why does anybody not know his name?

Pesonally I just see a desire for a mystery and not a lot of substance.

Furthermore, have you seen any of Jimmy's artwork? It's abstract. Nothing like the Colby art. Not that I don't think him capable, I just have doubts.

And since we've decided the Hermit has horns, is he also standing on a dove?

Discuss.

[kirchzep27]

I was of the understanding that Jimmy found the typeface in a book, rather than having it commissioned.

As for the picture, I don't think it need be a mystery. Perhaps Jimmy just liked it. Afterall, look at the third album. He hated that artwork.

"one of England's most prominent occult figures" As one of the most prominent, why does anybody not know his name?

Pesonally I just see a desire for a mystery and not a lot of substance.

Furthermore, have you seen any of Jimmy's artwork? It's abstract. Nothing like the Colby art. Not that I don't think him capable, I just have doubts.

And since we've decided the Hermit has horns, is he also standing on a dove?

Discuss.

as they say, you learn something everyday...that does look like a bird. on the horns thing, what...on the forehead?

[mos6507]

That's a rather harsh characterization. As I've pointed out before, Cadillac's link to rock n' roll goes back six decades. Led Zeppelin performed Chuck Berry's 'Cadillac, No Money Down' during concert medleys. A Cadillac is referred to in the lyrics for 'Livin' Lovin' Maid (She's Just A Woman)'. Jimmy Page and Paul Rodgers wrote the song 'Cadillac' while in The Firm. Robert was photographed in a Cadillac to promote the single for 'Big Log'. On

August 22nd 2002 he attended Cadillac's 100th Anniversary at the GM World HQ in Detroit and was thrilled by the experience. He walked in with his camcorder in his hand filming and he paused to record the promotional poster for the event for cryin' out loud!

Then why didn't they cut a deal with Caddilac earlier when they were busy denying Linklater? It's because the Zep brand had more cachet back then. If they want to treat their music as sacred, they won't license it out for commercials (or greatest hits CDs or records with rap artists) and they will stick to their guns and not change their minds. What happens is, money aside, a band's relevance starts to fade and they feel the need to do these things to remain in the public eye. Like now they are selling Zep ringtones and you can see spots featuring Kashmir at the movie theater. If you go too far down this road you just become hucksters like Kiss.

Edited May 9, 2008 by mos6507

[kirchzep27]

Not to mention, I've always thought that at the time, Zeppelin probably made more money than Cadillac off the deal. Or just made more money than Cadillac, period. So it could hardly be "selling out."

all i know is i can enjoy the song again, cause from hearing it on tv so much...it got like classic rock radio burning out songs ya know.

[Evster2012]

as they say, you learn something everyday...that does look like a bird. on the horns thing, what...on the forehead?

Yeah, a peak in the hood that shouldn't be there. But like so many mysteries, you have to want to see it. Judge for yourself.

I would never endorse Thomas Friend's book Fallen Angel, but he reads all sorts of shit into that cover. E.G. the man with the sticks is carrying the "faggots". The "four sticks" that represent Satan's four musical minions who are here to corrupt our minds with their music to do his bidding. Umm, okay.

He also claims Jimmy telepathically reached into his mind with the theremin and tried to take him over.

One born every day.

Here's to my sweet Satan.

Yawn.

I think I just heard the Loch Ness Monster chuckle. Nessy was Crowley's pet you know! He used to feed it live human babies.

And I'm Carol Burnett. *tugs earlobe*

[kirchzep27]

Yeah, a peak in the hood that shouldn't be there. But like so many mysteries, you have to want to see it. Judge for yourself.

I would never endorse Thomas Friend's book Fallen Angel, but he reads all sorts of shit into that cover. E.G. the man with the sticks is carrying the "faggots". The "four sticks" that represent Satan's four musical minions who are here to corrupt our minds with their music to do his bidding. Umm, okay.

He also claims Jimmy telepathically reached into his mind with the theremin and tried to take him over.

One born every day.

Here's to my sweet Satan.

Yawn.

I think I just heard the Loch Ness Monster chuckle. Nessy was Crowley's pet you know! He used to feed it live human babies.

And I'm Carol Burnett. *tugs earlobe*

yeah right.

I guess i just never saw the bird on the mountain there though, on the led zep four from the complete cd box w/the artwork i saw it immediately, but with the album, as a kid...never noticed it. Interesting stuff though, even if its trivial info.

Never knew that jimmy page didnt like the artwork on lz 3 either.

[Evster2012]

yeah right.

I guess i just never saw the bird on the mountain there though, on the led zep four from the complete cd box w/the artwork i saw it immediately, but with the album, as a kid...never noticed it. Interesting stuff though, even if its trivial info.

Never knew that jimmy page didnt like the artwork on lz 3 either.

Yeah, Jimmy envisioned something like a harvester's crop wheel that shows dates for planting, sowing, reaping and such. What he got was a bunch of psychedelic fluff with "bits of corn". He wanted something much more earthy and organic. It's his least favorite cover.

As for the "Hermit", I have a 5 foot tall print of it in my living room. Beats the heck out of taking a magnifying glass to a cd sleeve!

Edited May 9, 2008 by Evster2012

[kirchzep27]

Yeah, Jimmy envisioned something like a harvester's crop wheel that shows dates for planting, sowing, reaping and such. What he got was a bunch of psychedelic fluff with "bits of corn". He wanted something much more earthy and organic. It's his least favorite cover.

Really. very cool, never read anything about that. Interesting, thanks man. I do like the artwork as it is though, have the record cover on the wall, with a couple of others.

Hey, you never know...maybe they will release it with jimmy's original -harvesters crop wheel idea one day.

But as led zep releases go, that would be in 20...what? 2055-60 or something.

wouldnt mind hearing some outtakes/other versions of stuff like, -out on the tiles, or -immigrant song either.

Edited May 9, 2008 by middlezep

[Evster2012]

Really. very cool, never read anything about that. Interesting, thanks man. I do like the artwork as it is though, have the record cover on the wall, with a couple of others.

Funny thing is, I only have one lithograph of a Zeppelin cover on my wall. Guess which one!

Signed #333 by Zacron:

Sorry Jimmy!

[kirchzep27]

Funny thing is, I only have one lithograph of a Zeppelin cover on my wall. Guess which one!

Signed #333 by Zacron:

Sorry Jimmy!

Ah, nice. maybe -page thought it was too busy or something, cause they did 4 and houses in the way they did those...more basic concepts or whatever. But then, the cut out album cover of -physical graffiti. Well, it definately was a cool time with album covers and artwork. A cd cover cant compare at all really.

[Evster2012]

Ah, nice. maybe -page thought it was too busy or something, cause they did 4 and houses in the way they did those...more basic concepts or whatever. But then, the cut out album cover of -physical graffiti.

Nah, it just wasn't what he envisioned. With the albums that followed you can be sure he wasn't gonna let that happen again. That's why HOTH's release was delayed for weeks. He wanted the colors to be perfect.

A funny anecdote about album covers. When Zep was doing Presence, they hired Hipgnosis to do the cover. They were the firm that did Pink Floyd's most memorable covers. Anyway, Storm Thorgeson (the designer), walks into Swan Song and presents his vision. It's a tennis court. He looks at Jimmy and says "Racket. Get it?". Jimmy was incensed! "Racket??". Our music is "Racket??". "GET OUT!!!". Storm came back with "Zeppelin's music has this presence". Blah blah. Hence the Presence cover with the obelisk. Funny shit! But hey, Storm rescued the commission!