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The Ossetian Conflic


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When I was young, 10 presidential elections ago, I had high hopes that things could really change, now I've all but given up. I secretly hoped nobama might represent some sort of change, but any hopes I had, small though they were, were dashed with the VP pick. It obviously will be business as usual.

If you look at history the only thing that ever brought about any real change was a revolution. That would be disasterous today. We need to be on the same page more than ever these days even if it means we have to be on the same page with the bad guys <_<

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Hi all,

Yep, Obama,he got this magic wand,you seez,everthing better.Your kidding,right? :blink:

KB(good luck,you'll need it.)

It's coming up to payday my man. Meet the new boss...same as the old boss. Christ am I cinical or what. Wish I wasn't but, the standard has been lowered...no doubt about that

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Hi all,

It's coming up to payday my man. Meet the new boss...same as the old boss. Christ am I cinical or what. Wish I wasn't but, the standard has been lowered...no doubt about that

You need help,you just ask.K?

Dunder-head,help,git's it?You know s***-head from USA,me help,U just ask,me help a friend,pay back,me know.Go's around comes around.It do.No skin off my nose.

Brothers&Sisters in G,you need you ask,me help,dunder head in USA.

KB(and I approved this message.)

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Hi all,

You need help,you just ask.K?

Dunder-head,help,git's it?You know s***-head from USA,me help,U just ask,me help a friend,pay back,me know.Go's around comes around.It do.No skin off my nose.

Brothers&Sisters in G,you need you ask,me help,dunder head in USA.

KB(and I approved this message.)

ROFLMAO :D

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I think Russia was bored throwing stones from the roofs of their tanks and felt the need to remind the world if they want to kick ass, they damn well will kick ass.

Yawn..

but hey, a 30,000 nuclear arsenal does have a nice ring to it.

Edited to Add: Gotta love how the State Department immediately condemned Russia for invading a foreign country with military force with no real goal except to overthrow the existing government. You gotta hand it to them. They damn well try their hardest to make our bullshit smell like the best in the world.

Edited by bigstickbonzo
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Parliamentarians will consider the treatment of unrecognized republics

Federation Council and State Duma will consider the status of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Власти непризнанных республик на прошлой неделе направили обращение к руководству России с просьбой о признании их независимости от Грузии. The authorities of the unrecognized republic last week sent a treatment to the leadership of Russia with a request for recognition of their independence from Georgia.

Сегодня же, как ожидается, обе палаты Федерального собрания сформируют парламентскую комиссию, которая займется расследованием фактов геноцида в Южной Осетии. Today, as expected, both chambers of the Federal Assembly will form a parliamentary commission that will investigate the facts of genocide in South Ossetia.

Перед началом экстренного заседания депутатов Госдумы в здании на Охотном Ряду будет открыта фотоэкспозиция под названием «Южная Осетия. Хроника геноцида . Before the emergency meeting of deputies in the Duma building on Okhotny Ryad fotoekspozitsiya will be opened under the name "South Ossetia. Chronicles of genocide. Август, 2008», передает НТВ. August, 2008 ", NTV passes.

news.ntv.ru

True, Georgia's Mikheil Saakashvili is not a very smart president. A pro would not have walked into the trap the Russians and their local thug-in-chief (a.k.a. "president"), Eduard Kokoity, had set up in South Ossetia. A wise leader would have done some elementary intelligence work and then recoiled in horror. Across the border in (Russian) North Ossetia lay waiting Russia's 58th Army, steeled by annihilationist warfare in Chechnya and considered their best trained. It has 600 tanks, 2,000 armored troop carriers and 120 combat planes. Even if only half smart, the president could have saved his country from disaster by simply closing the Roki Tunnel, those two miles under the Caucasus Mountains that were the only way in for the 58th. In poured 15,000 men and 150 tanks, and that shut up the mouse that roared.

All true, and yet Saakashvili is not the main culprit, but Russia's prime minister, Vladimir Putin. It began not on Aug. 8, but in July—with a vast military exercise, "Caucasus 2008," as dress rehearsal for the invasion. As a flanking maneuver, Moscow handed out thousands of passports to South Ossetians (legally Georgians) to have a nice PR gambit ready: "What, aggressors us? We are just protecting the Motherland's citizens." So here we are—at the fourth Russian conquest of Georgia. The first bites were taken by Catherine the Great, annexation was completed by Aleksandr II in 1864 and, after three years of independence, Georgia was grabbed by the Bolsheviks in 1921.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/154937

MOSCOW (AFP) - Russian lawmakers were set Monday to consider recognising Georgia's two breakaway regions as independent, a move that would pour fuel on the fire in simmering relations with the West.

Both houses of Russia's parliament were to convene emergency sessions to examine appeals for recognition from South Ossetia -- where fighting this month prompted Russia to send in tanks and troops -- and Abkhazia.

Recognition would mean crossing a threshold for Moscow, which has backed the separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia since their break with Tbilisi in the early 1990s but stopped short of declaring them independent from Georgia.

The regions are internationally recognised as part of Georgia and a move to declare them independent countries would further dent relations with the West, which have plunged to their lowest point since the end of the Cold War over Russia's intervention and insistence on maintaining positions deep inside Georgia.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who negotiated on behalf of the European Union the peace plan which ended nearly a week of fighting, on Sunday announced a special European summit on the crisis in Georgia will be held September 1.

The summit in Brussels will discuss the future of relations between the EU and Russia and on aid to Georgia, Sarkozy's office said.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner had warned that Sarkozy might convene the emergency EU meeting if Russia failed to pull back its forces from positions in the former Soviet republic.

Russian troops poured into South Ossetia on August 8 to repel a Georgian attempt to regain control of the breakaway region. After smashing Georgia's small US-trained army in South Ossetia, Russian troops then pushed deep into Georgia, including through Abkhazia.

Russia withdrew tanks, artillery and hundreds of troops from their most advanced positions in Georgia on Friday, saying it had fulfilled all obligations under the French-brokered peace agreement.

But Russian troops still control access to the port city of Poti , south of Abkhazia, and have established other checkpoints around South Ossetia.

The six-point peace plan negotiated by France has been interpreted differently by Russia and the West, with Russia claiming it has the right to leave peacekeepers deep inside Georgia in a buffer zone.

France, Britain, the United States, NATO and other Western powers have demanded Russia pull back further.

An AFP reporter saw Russian troops holding at least six positions in an 80-kilometre (50-mile) area around Poti on Sunday.

Georgian officials said Russian troops were also maintaining eight positions in central Georgia around South Ossetia, including one a few kilometres from the strategic city of Gori on the main road into the region.

A US Navy destroyer carrying relief supplies arrived at a Black Sea port in Georgia on Sunday in a sign of support for its ally.

The USS McFaul dropped anchor off Batumi, 50 kilometres south of the Russian-occupied port of Poti, the first of three ships carrying aid to help Georgia deal with an estimated 100,000 displaced people.

A top Russian general on Saturday accused NATO countries of using humanitarian aid as "cover" for a build-up of naval forces in the Black Sea, heightening tension in the aftermath of the conflict.

A US coastguard ship passed through the Turkish straits on Sunday en route for Georgia while the USS Mount Whitney, the flagship of the US Mediterranean Sixth Fleet was to set sail for the Black Sea at the end of the month.

Analysts see Georgia's pro-Western path and determination to join NATO as key issues in the conflict, with Russia angered by the prospect of another neighbouring country being part of the Western military alliance.

Many would also view Moscow 's recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as payback for the West's recognition of Kosovo earlier this year despite vehement Russian objections.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia have long sought recognition of their independence, or even incorporation into Russia, steps Moscow has so far refused.

But Russian President Dmitry Medvedev last week signalled Moscow was ready to consider such a move, saying Russia would "make the decision which unambiguously supports the will of these two Caucasus peoples."

While a recognition motion could easily pass in the State Duma and Federation Council, the real decision lies with the Kremlin.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080825/ts_af...arussiaconflict

An uncertain death toll in Georgia-Russia war

Some are now saying far fewer civilians died than originally reported

By Tara Bahrampour

updated 1:09 a.m. PT, Mon., Aug. 25, 2008

TBILISI, Georgia - It was evening, and Manana Rodiashvili had just milked her cow. The disputed region of South Ossetia had seen skirmishes in recent days, but her village was calm.

And then, suddenly, tanks appeared in her street.

"They began shooting all around," said Rodiashvili, 55, an ethnic Georgian. She crouched in her cousin's basement as men speaking Russian entered the house. Then she hid for five days in the countryside.

Like many of the tens of thousands who have fled their villages since the war between Georgia and Russia began more than two weeks ago, Rodiashvili doesn't have a clear sense of whose airplanes she saw, which soldiers came or what date it was. During those chaotic days, people fanned out into the countryside, hiding in orchards and living off plums as they watched their villages burn.

Almost immediately, officials on both sides claimed wild and improbable death tolls. Russian officials accused Georgia's government of committing "genocide," saying 2,000 Ossetians had been killed. Georgian officials spoke of summary executions and announced that "most" ethnic Georgians in South Ossetia had been killed or put in detention camps.

It will probably take weeks to sort out who died and how. Witnesses and nongovernmental organizations say that although widespread looting and some detentions occurred, far fewer civilians died than originally reported. In fact, on both sides it has been hard to find people with firsthand knowledge of deaths in a war that sparked the biggest crisis in Russia's relations with Europe and the United States since the Soviet Union collapsed.

Villages emptied

What no one disputes is that villages emptied quickly.

Aid groups and Georgian officials estimate that as many as 158,000 people have left their homes, including 30,000 ethnic Ossetians who went north to Russia. About 100,000 who fled South Ossetia and the Georgian city of Gori went to Tbilisi, Georgia's capital, and 22,000 to other towns.

As they fled, rumors rose like smoke and clouded the air: Cossack, Ossetian and Chechen "irregulars" had razed Georgian villages, committed mass rapes, rounded up all the young people and marched them off to a concentration camp. Women vowed to drink poison rather than be captured alive.

In the days before the war began, Ossetians seemed aware that something was about to happen. On Aug. 5 and 6, Ossetian officials sent 36 buses to take women and children to Russia.

"Those who were afraid got out," said Eteri Kudzieva, 50, a resident of Tskhinvali.

Most Georgians initially stayed in their villages, figuring that the sporadic fighting of recent weeks would not affect them.

Georgian forces began shelling on the evening of Aug. 7.

"At first, it was like what we were used to sometimes before," said Armen Bididov, 60, of Tskhinvali. "Then it just kept getting worse and worse and worse." He pointed to stone shambles. "This was my house," he said.

Some Georgian villages also appear to have been hit by Georgian shells that night.

The next morning, the Georgian army rolled through Ossetian villages, shooting randomly at houses and entering some to search for uniforms and weapons.

According to Ossetian villagers, they seemed surprised to find people still inside.

Most ethnic Georgians began fleeing south when they saw the Georgian army retreating the following day. At the same time, Ossetians fled north along a road where Georgian forces had bombed Russian troops.

While Ossetian residents reported sporadic instances of looting by Georgian soldiers -- a DVD player here, an electric shaver there -- there were few reports of violence, and most deaths among Ossetians seem to have been caused by shelling.

"Nobody told us about any mistreatment, any cruelty by the Georgians as they entered the houses," said Anna Neistat, a senior emergencies researcher for Human Rights Watch, who spent several days interviewing witnesses in South Ossetia and Russia.

Detentions on both sides

There were, however, detentions on both sides.

Georgian civilians have reported being rounded up by Ossetian militiamen, held in Tskhinvali and forced to bury the war dead. About 80 people released Thursday, including many women and elderly, said at least 75 men are still captive there.

Rita Bestaeva, an Ossetian, said she and several others were captured by Georgian soldiers Aug. 8 and held overnight on the Georgian side of the border. They were not physically abused, she said, and were released by a Georgian special forces member who sneaked them out and took them back to the edge of South Ossetia in his jeep. "What he did was brave and kind," she said, "but after what I have seen, I still think the Georgian army is shameful."

Nor did Georgian residents in South Ossetia report serious misbehavior by Russian soldiers.

The worst violence was committed by the "irregulars" -- South Ossetian militiamen and others who joined the Russians as they came in.

South Ossetia has a small official army of 2,500 to 3,000, but most young men consider themselves warriors, according to Neistat.

"Essentially, every male is a militia member," she said. "The majority of the young male population has fatigues and automatic weapons under their beds. So essentially these men, as soon as the shelling started, fled to the woods" and became soldiers. It was an instant army of 15,000 to 16,000 Ossetians, she said, under no one's command.

Widespread looting by militias

According to witnesses, the Ossetian militias began widespread looting. "They ask for access to the house, and if there's any protestations, they shoot them at the door," said Marcus Bleasdale, a freelance photographer who has traveled to villages in recent days, adding that he had seen several bodies in doorways.

In the Georgian town of Tkviavi, residents said 12 people were killed, several of them shot in their homes by roving Ossetian militias. Residents pointed to the fresh grave of Shamili Okropiridze, 60, who they said was shot in his front yard from a passing car, likely driven by an Ossetian militiaman.

In Eredwi, another Georgian village, Spiridon Mamisashvili, 62, said he hid in his garden as militiamen shot seven of his neighbors. "In one family, they shot the wife and the husband," he said, standing in the doorway of a refugee center in Tbilisi. "In another family, only the wife."

Mamisashvili trudged through the countryside all that night, joining others fleeing toward Gori. But that city, too, was gripped by terror. The Russian bombardment had begun several days earlier, destroying several apartment blocks and other buildings.

According to Georgian officials, as many as 90 percent of Gori's residents fled in the early days of the attack. Nukri Jokhadze, who heads Gori's main hospital, said that in the first five days, 27 civilians were killed and about 1,200 wounded, mostly from cluster bombs.

A doctor standing in the hospital's front yard at 2 a.m. on Aug. 12 was killed by a blast from a helicopter. "I don't know how they attacked this building," Jokhadze said. "It has a giant red cross on the roof."

Many of the wounded were transferred to Tbilisi, where hospitals have reported 70 civilian deaths. Gori hospitals have reported 64 deaths, and in South Ossetia, the Tskhinvali hospital has reported 44. Still uncounted are the bodies buried in gardens or lying where they fell.

Tariel Sikinchilashvili, a priest, said the Georgian Orthodox Church collected 42 bodies from villages last week and was expecting 40 more. This past week, reporters saw a few bodies rotting in the sun, and in Gori, the smell of corpses wafted from bombed buildings.

Few facts become clear

In the wake of the fighting, a few facts have become clear. Tskhinvali was not flattened by the Georgians, though in recent days, an unknown number of Georgian villages in South Ossetia have been burned. Sozar Subari, Georgia's ombudsman, said his office has yet to talk to anyone who was raped. After a public backlash, the Russians seemed to clamp down on the militias, but about 160 forced detentions have been reported in Tskhinvali. A large number of unexploded cluster bombs have been found.

Russian officials adjusted their figures last week to 197 dead -- 133 Ossetians and 64 Russian soldiers. Georgia now says 400 Georgians were killed, half of them in the military -- with 150 to 180 soldiers still unaccounted for.

Some foreign observers and Georgians have wondered if the Georgian toll might be higher, and whether the government may be minimizing it to avoid a public criticism of a war in which Georgia was so badly pummeled.

Such a tactic could backfire, warned Hans Gutbrod, regional director of the Caucasus Research Resource Centers program in Tbilisi. "If it turns out in two weeks that they badly fudged the casualty figures, it breaks the trust. You have to get the bad news out fast."

Georgia's deputy minister of defense, Batu Kutelia, dismissed the idea that there were hidden military casualties but said the numbers are still being tallied.

For now, the process of sorting out the living has begun.

Hundreds of refugee centers

In Tbilisi, more than 500 schools and other public buildings have become refugee centers. While people who fled Gori have now begun to return home, those who left South Ossetia cannot. They have shelter and bread, but nerves are raw, and fights occasionally break out as they sit in the muggy heat.

Many have received no word from those they left behind. In the gymnasium of School No. 161, Nana Jikhashvili, 49, sifted through a mountain of donated clothes. She fled Achabeti, leaving her husband to feed their chickens and rabbits.

"I took my children out," she said, "but I wish they'd told me" that war was coming. Kneading a salmon-colored knit vest between her fingers, she grimaced. "I would have brought my clothes."

She has not been able to contact her husband -- perhaps he has been unable to charge his cellphone, she said.

On Monday, a man who arrived at the refugee center told Jikhashvili her husband was dead. But by now people here have heard a lot of stories, and Jikhashvili said she doesn't believe it.

Correspondent Jonathan Finer in Gori and South Ossetia contributed to this report.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26385413

Edited by eternal light
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Hi all,

Glad, everyone is reading along,.....

I think Russia was bored throwing stones from the roofs of their tanks and felt the need to remind the world if they want to kick ass, they damn well will kick ass.

Yawn..

but hey, a 30,000 nuclear arsenal does have a nice ring to it.

Edited to Add: Gotta love how the State Department immediately condemned Russia for invading a foreign country with military force with no real goal except to overthrow the existing government. You gotta hand it to them. They damn well try their hardest to make our bullshit smell like the best in the world.

When are you moving?

KB

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I think Russia was bored throwing stones from the roofs of their tanks and felt the need to remind the world if they want to kick ass, they damn well will kick ass.

Just like they did in Afghanistan.

B)

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I know where your coming from but honestly,that won't make a great deal of difference either. You just have to look at us up north to realize that a third party can at times slow down a government that's looking at radical change, it can also hinder forward movement period. I have at times felt that minority governments can be usefull but you must realize that third party's are bought and sold just like the big party's are. The only answer is accountability...period
Agreed. But the curent system isn't working, so something must be done. we can't just wait for some reborn Washington to make things better

Maybe I'm misinterpeting you...are you saying "It is impossible to do so why the hell even try?"?

Your negativity is becoming um....not very pleasant. Negativity breeds negativity. Positive thoughts create positive actions which create positive reactions which creates positive change. Why don't you try that for a while and see how it works for you?

I'm as negative about the Democrats as you are of George Bush. It's the exact same thing, so how you call me negative seems a bit hypocritical.

I'm negative about the current two party system. I'm negative about where this country is headed.

I'm positive that America might soon wake up to a third party (I.e. Libertarian Party). I'm positive that there are still good people in this country, but few in Congress.

All your positivity is in the hands of Barack Obama...another same ol same ol.

Impressive

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Just like they did in Afghanistan.

B)

lol

+1

A friend on Facebook is trying convince me of the merits of communism. You know, having never lived in it and all. He knows where I'm from so he should know better but the books say that Lenin revolutionized things (again, minus all the murder and general terror). It's amazing what passes for acceptable over time.

Edited by Patrycja
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Second U.S. Ship Delivers Aid to Georgia

Story Number: NNS080827-01

Release Date: 8/27/2008 1:21:00 PM

From U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Commander, U.S. 6th Fleet Public Affairs

BATUMI, Republic of Georgia (NNS) -- U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Dallas (WHEC 716) pulled into port in Batumi, Georgia Aug. 27 to deliver humanitarian relief supplies as part of Operation Assured Delivery, the United States military's ongoing effort to support the Georgian government's request for humanitarian assistance.

Dallas will offload 80 pallets with more than 76,000 pounds of humanitarian assistance supplies. The goods include hygiene items, food, milk and juices. Batumi port currently provides an established distribution hub to quickly dispense the aid.

"The crew of Dallas really wants these goods to make a difference in the lives of the Georgian people," said Capt. Robert Wagner, commanding officer of Dallas. "When we received the order to deliver these supplies, the men and women of this ship responded quickly at every turn."

USS McFaul (DDG 74) arrived in Batumi Aug. 24 delivering 155,000 pounds of aid to Georgia. USS Mount Whitney (LCC/JCC 20) is scheduled to deploy for Georgia at the end of the month with more supplies. U.S. Navy C-9, C-40 and C-130 aircraft have flown tens of thousands of hygiene kits and more than 30 tons of meals ready-to-eat into the country during the past week.

Dallas, a 378-foot endurance cutter based out of Charleston, S.C., is on a regularly scheduled deployment to the 6th Fleet area of responsibility. Previously, Dallas participated in Africa Partnership Station, an initiative to build partnerships and improve maritime safety and security in West and Central Africa.

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=39364

246304336_324484.gif

August 28, 2008

Michael Evans, Defence Editor

A new Cold War between Russia and the West grew steadily closer yesterday after the Kremlin gave a warning about “direct confrontation” between American and Russian warships in the Black Sea.

Dmitri Peskov, a spokesman for Vladimir Putin, the Prime Minister, declared that Russia was taking “measures of precaution” against American and Nato naval ships. “Let’s hope we do not see any direct confrontation in that,” he said.

Any attempt by countries in the West to isolate Russia would “definitely harm the economic interests of those states”, he said.

A day after the Kremlin said that it was ready to fight a new Cold War, both sides gave the impression that they were preparing for a protracted stand-off. Foreign ministers of the G7 leading industrialised nations condemned Russia’s excessive use of force and the decision to recognise the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, while the US and Russia shelved a key nuclear agreement that would have given the Americans access to Russian nuclear technologies and Russia help from the US in establishing an international nuclear fuel storage facility for spent fuel.

David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, also flew to Ukraine to assemble the “widest possible coalition against Russian aggression”, while Georgia downgraded its diplomatic relations with Russia, recalling all but two of its diplomats from Moscow in protest at the continuing occupation of its country.

Russia criticised the US for using naval ships to deliver aid to Georgia. The US Coast Guard cutter Dallas delivered supplies to the Georgian port of Batumi yesterday, three days after the guided-missile destroyer USS McFaul docked in the port. The US sailors were greeted with chants of “USA! USA!”

By choosing Batumi, the US opted for a less confrontational move than docking at Poti, another Georgian port where Russian troops are dug in. The US may have also suspected that the Russians had mined the harbour at Poti, possibly one of the precautionary measures referred to by Mr Putin’s spokesman.

General Anatoli Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian General Staff, accused Nato of “ratcheting up tension” in the Black Sea. Mr Peskov said: “It’s not a common practice to deliver humanitarian aid using battleships.”

The Russian rhetoric was matched in the US by Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, who will visit Georgia next week. He called the Russian occupation of Georgia an unjustified assault, and pledged to ensure the country’s territorial integrity.

The G7 — Britain, the US, France, Canada, Germany, Italy and Japan — said in a statement released by the US State Department: “We deplore Russia’s excessive use of military force in Georgia and its continued occupation of parts of Georgia.”

For now, US help has been confined to delivering aid to Georgia by sea and air, but with Russian troops and tanks still occupying parts of Georgia, US military planners are now openly considering how to rearm Georgia’s forces, which fought as allies of the US in Iraq. “Down the road we will be looking at what may be required to rebuild the Georgian military \ right now the mission of the United States military is to provide humanitarian assistance,” a Pentagon spokesman said.

A former British ambassador to Tbilisi said that Nato might have to send troops to the region. Donald McLaren, who was Ambassador to Georgia from 2004 to July last year and is now retired, told the Today programme on Radio 4: “I think we shouldn’t be too complacent or too scared in a situation like this.”

He suggested that a peacekeeping force made up of troops from the US, Britain, France, Germany and Russia should be sent to Georgia to replace the Russian units. If Moscow rejected such a proposal, he said, Nato had only two choices: “To give up and surrender and say to the Russians, ‘It’s your backyard, you’ve won’, or to put men on the ground to protect Georgia’s sovereignty and the east-west oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian and Central Asia.”

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office said that there was no prospect of troops being deployed to Georgia.

Nato diplomatic sources said that no one within the alliance was speaking about sending troops. “We have no mandate to act in the Caucasus,” a source said. Even the European Union, which is to hold a summit next month, has downgraded its most likely response to the Russian military presence in Georgia from deploying peacekeepers to sending observers.

Masha Lipman, of the Moscow centre of the Carnegie Endowment, told Today that Russia was in a belligerent mood and that if the West sent a force into Georgia, the situation would escalate.

The Ministry of Defence has decided to postpone a military exercise in Georgia involving the Territorial Army and the Georgian Army. The exercise, planned for next month, was to help the Georgians with peacekeeping. The MoD said that the Georgian Defence Ministry had requested the delay because of the current situation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4622422.ece

I think that calm should prevail. You don't want any more harm done to civilians. People should use this opportunity to allow them to recover from the shock and disruption that took place. It's important not to back the Russians into a corner when tensions are running high, and to remain very observant during the interim. They will not be at their best when it comes to making decisions while tensions are raw. It's wise to prevent the fight-or-flight response to stress. Just let the dust settle and the tensions ease for awhile if possible.

Edited by eternal light
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Agreed. But the curent system isn't working, so something must be done. we can't just wait for some reborn Washington to make things better

I'm as negative about the Democrats as you are of George Bush. It's the exact same thing, so how you call me negative seems a bit hypocritical.

I'm negative about the current two party system. I'm negative about where this country is headed.

I'm positive that America might soon wake up to a third party (I.e. Libertarian Party). I'm positive that there are still good people in this country, but few in Congress.

All your positivity is in the hands of Barack Obama...another same ol same ol.

Impressive

Impressive? Thank you. More impressive than putting your hopes into a Republican making any changes to the current system. More impressive than waiting forever until a 3rd party comes along to have any hopes or dreams at all. And even more impressive my negativity against Bush is in the majority. I believ about 80% of Americans think his terms were disatrous. So...if you think that's impressive....I just think it's common sense but....I'll take the compliment :)

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Impressive? Thank you. More impressive than putting your hopes into a Republican making any changes to the current system. More impressive than waiting forever until a 3rd party comes along to have any hopes or dreams at all. And even more impressive my negativity against Bush is in the majority. I believ about 80% of Americans think his terms were disatrous. So...if you think that's impressive....I just think it's common sense but....I'll take the compliment :)

Med...come on. How many times have I said i don't support the Republican Party in any way?

And just what are you basing you're positivity on anyways? A 95% party-line voter? A candidate whose only claim to fame is a speech from 2002 and the fact that he's young and black? Another regular, don't do anything Democrat...except occasionally make us a little more centrist?

No, to be honest, that's not really impressive. As far as Bush goes, my negativity is with you...so I dno't see your point.

You're just as negative as me, you're simply more positive about a different party, so I don't really see how you can justify saying I'm "negative" when you basically hold the same viewpoint...

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And in the "no surprise there" news:

Russia wins backing from China, Central Asia over Georgia

Seeing as how both Russia and China have regions that want to break away it might seem surprising, but behind the scenes it's about alliances. Guess China has to wait until the very last straggler of the Olympics left its soil before getting back to its comfort zone.

Edited by Patrycja
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Med...come on. How many times have I said i don't support the Republican Party in any way?

And just what are you basing you're positivity on anyways? A 95% party-line voter? A candidate whose only claim to fame is a speech from 2002 and the fact that he's young and black? Another regular, don't do anything Democrat...except occasionally make us a little more centrist?

No, to be honest, that's not really impressive. As far as Bush goes, my negativity is with you...so I dno't see your point.

You're just as negative as me, you're simply more positive about a different party, so I don't really see how you can justify saying I'm "negative" when you basically hold the same viewpoint...

OK, I'll give ya that Wannabe...let's just say I'm 'hopeful' OK? In reality, I'm becoming scared. And for me? Obama gives me hope...... :)

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What has he done that gives you hope?

Maybe it's more about what he HASN'T done. I think it's time for diplomacy in the world, and I think he is the man that can change the worlds perceptions of our intentions.....

Maybe that isn't logical to you but I feel very strongly on that ONE topic alone. Just as Dergible will vote for McCain on the right to life issue no matter what else....

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we knew this was coming...

Putin blames US for Georgia role

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the US of provoking the conflict in Georgia, possibly for domestic election purposes.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7586605.stm

Mr Putin told CNN US citizens were "in the area" during the conflict over South Ossetia and were "taking direct orders from their leaders".

I urge every American who may be watching this broadcast right now to call their senators, their congressmen, the White House, and tell George Bush to get out. America does not need to intervene in this war. America needs to stop supporting Georgia.

I guess Mr. Putin has not met Mr. Mestas yet.

At least George Bush has a term limit. Does Mr. Putin have a term limit on his office?

Edited by eternal light
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