Rock Historian Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Some people who associate characterisics with Jimmy Page, bring up the sloppiness. I don't think that trait hurt his ability to convince an audience just how good he was/is. Although, people who may not be big fans will use his "sloppiness" to argue that he was overrated, I don't feel that way at all. In a sense, it was attractive because you almost expected it, as sort of a trademark-but not in a bad way. Sometimes the solo's he played wouldn't have come across as powerful and emotional , without that sloppy trademark. Some take that signature as disaster, I take it as beauty. There were/are many players who can be viewed just as sloppy, only they used plenty of effects to cover it. Tone, reverb, distortion, etc. has alot to do with this. While, he is not as technically advanced as some others, that wasn't what Zeppelin's music or his playing was about. Zeppelin was about groove, emotion and feel- not note for note obsession/perfection or precision. While drugs may have hindered his playing ability, and his consistency (no doubt) I haven't heard a ton of recordings that were not worthy of a listen or deemed intolerable.(I have heard some that were bad) I've also managed to purchase a few "boots' from the 77' tour that would have him playing very well, (without any indication of pure sloppiness) -to a point of sounding almost impeccable (in Page's own way) -to my ears. Edited January 18, 2012 by Rock Historian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black-Dog Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 He was always a bit sloppy. But many other guitarists too...Ritchie Blackmore is it too. Every band has bad nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnthepage Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 We're all sloppy sometimes, no? Doesn't make him a bad player. Jeff Beck looked like a stick onstage and played with the emotion of one too, but that didn't stop him from taking the #5 slot...above B.B. King and Pete Townsend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnthepage Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Some people who associate characterisics with Jimmy Page, bring up the sloppiness. I don't think that trait hurt his ability to convince an audience just how good he was/is. Although, people who may not be big fans will use his "sloppiness" to argue that he was overrated, I don't feel that way at all. In a sense, it was attractive because you almost expected it, as sort of a trademark-but not in a bad way. Sometimes the solo's he played wouldn't have come across as powerful and emotional , without that sloppy trademark. Some take that signature as disaster, I take it as beauty. There were/are many players who can be viewed just as sloppy, only they used plenty of effects to cover it. Tone, reverb, distortion, etc. has alot to do with this. While, he is not as technically advanced as some others, that wasn't what Zeppelin's music or his playing was about. Zeppelin was about groove, emotion and feel- not note for note obsession/perfection or precision. While drugs may have hindered his playing ability, and his consistency (no doubt) I haven't heard a ton of recordings that were not worthy of a listen or deemed intolerable.(I have heard some that were bad) I've also managed to purchase a few "boots' from the 77' tour that would have him playing very well, (without any indication of pure sloppiness) -to a point of sounding almost impeccable (in Page's own way) -to my ears. I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black-Dog Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Without sloppiness, no feeling! Specially in blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 All you need see is Keith Richards at number four to see what a load of crap this rating is. I mean, are you kidding me? Is Keith Richards better than Randy Rhodes? NO F##KING WAY JOSE. Great writer yes. Good guitarist yes. Great, NO. And Hendrix always gets voted number one because he is dead. When an artist dies they gain immortality and more status. Page is better than him and Clapton and anyone else. Not even close. How many classic riffs has Page written compared to them? Far more. Layla was great. All Along the Watchtower was great. But Page has far more material that is just super human in quality. PAGE IS THE BEST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianeh! Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 just saw jeff beck in October. Fantastic show. He played with emotion and even talked to the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-ocean87 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Without sloppiness, no feeling! Specially in blues. Thats partially right. But Stevie Ray Vaughan for example had feeling and wasn't a bit sloopy!!! He was always a bit sloppy. But many other guitarists too...Ritchie Blackmore is it too. Every band has bad nights. You can't compare Blackmore's sloopiness with Page's. But I won't start a discussion about Page and Blackmore cause I would choose Page :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 All you need see is Keith Richards at number four to see what a load of crap this rating is. I mean, are you kidding me? Is Keith Richards better than Randy Rhodes? NO F##KING WAY JOSE. Great writer yes. Good guitarist yes. Great, NO. And Hendrix always gets voted number one because he is dead. When an artist dies they gain immortality and more status. Page is better than him and Clapton and anyone else. Not even close. How many classic riffs has Page written compared to them? Far more. Layla was great. All Along the Watchtower was great. But Page has far more material that is just super human in quality. PAGE IS THE BEST. I'm a die-hard Zeppelin/Pagey fan but when it comes to the greatest guitarist, Hendrix takes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianeh! Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 In the book Whole lotta Led Zeppelin, there is an essay by George Case which covers the instruments that JIMMY used, i.e. his guitars, amps etc. to achieve his sound. In the last paragraph he writes, The bottom line is that LED ZEPPELIN leader Jimmy Page's three most important musical utensils, were his hands (1944, WITH LATER MODIFICATIONS) ears, (ditto) and soul (origin unknown) To me that says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter's walker Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Clapton is better than Jimmy? Well... I'd certainly say The Cream's material was stronger than the Yardbirds without Eric, but Eric's best years were almost over when Led Zeppelin 1st took the stage. I listen to the tape of Eric and Duane Allman playing live December 1, 1970 , and hear one Eric's last "great" shows... whereas the Zeppelin was flying high until '77. Speaking of which, Duane was formerly #2 on Rolling Stone's list, now he's down to #11? WTF? I realize these lists are subjective, but WTF??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Clapton is better than Jimmy? Well... I'd certainly say The Cream's material was stronger than the Yardbirds without Eric, but Eric's best years were almost over when Led Zeppelin 1st took the stage. I listen to the tape of Eric and Duane Allman playing live December 1, 1970 , and hear one Eric's last "great" shows... whereas the Zeppelin was flying high until '77. Speaking of which, Duane was formerly #2 on Rolling Stone's list, now he's down to #11? WTF? I realize these lists are subjective, but WTF??? Give me one reason why Allman should be higher than Page and Beck, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Give me one reason why Allman should be higher than Page and Beck, for example. The Allman Brothers Band Live at the Fillmore East Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thats partially right. But Stevie Ray Vaughan for example had feeling and wasn't a bit sloopy!!! You can't compare Blackmore's sloopiness with Page's. But I won't start a discussion about Page and Blackmore cause I would choose Page :-) For the love of god, it's sloppy, S-L-O-P-P-Y, not sloopy. We're not discussing posture here. Although maybe we should...because most of you are forgetting one major component to Jimmy's playing in concert. Unlike Eric Clapton, Duane Allman, Mick Taylor, and many other great guitarists, Jimmy Page wasn't just standing still with his guitar at the proper height. The fact is, considering the average rock musician of that era, Jimmy's technique was off the charts. Only a handful of players (Jimi, Eric, John McLaughlin, Duane, Jeff) were in Jimmy's class. That's why if you read any number of contemporary accounts of Led Zeppelin at that time, most made mention of Jimmy's superlative technique. Nobody complained about Jimmy being sloppy on the records, where Jimmy could concentrate on the playing alone. On stage, Jimmy struck a balance between musicianship and showmanship. Hence, the low-slung guitar and his zig-zagging and pirouetting around the stage. Was he going to strike every note pure while swerving and lurching this way and that, arching his back to the point of being horizontal to the stage? Hell no...but he hit enough of them and he was a helluva lot more fun to watch than the others, to boot! So when you're listening to a boot and hear a flub, keep in mind you're missing the visual component to Jimmy Page's live playing. It's likely that flub you heard was executed while doing deep knee bends and moonwalking across the stage on one foot with a heavy doubleneck strapped to his slender frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) The Allman Brothers Band Live at the Fillmore East Well, I advise you to listen to Blow By Blow. Well, Ritchie Blackmore, Steve Howe, Robert Fripp, and David Gilmour are the only 70s' guitarists who hold their own with Page. Unfortunately, none of them are in the top 10. Edited January 21, 2012 by Taro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-ocean87 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 For the love of god, it's sloppy, S-L-O-P-P-Y, not sloopy. We're not discussing posture here. I'm sorry. My english is not the best since my last english lesson was eight years ago!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-ocean87 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well, I advise you to listen to Blow By Blow. Well, Ritchie Blackmore, Steve Howe, Robert Fripp, and David Gilmour are the only 70s' guitarists who hold their own with Page. Unfortunately, none of them are in the top 10. You forgot to write "in rock-music". Cause in other genres, there are plenty of others whom Jimmy couldn't hold a candle with!!! We have to add Eddie Van Halen to your list. He was the most influential rock-guitarist from 1978 till the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You forgot to write "in rock-music". Cause in other genres, there are plenty of others whom Jimmy couldn't hold a candle with!!! We have to add Eddie Van Halen to your list. He was the most influential rock-guitarist from 1978 till the 80s. Like whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom kid Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 All you need see is Keith Richards at number four to see what a load of crap this rating is. I mean, are you kidding me? Is Keith Richards better than Randy Rhodes? NO F##KING WAY JOSE. Great writer yes. Good guitarist yes. Great, NO. And Hendrix always gets voted number one because he is dead. When an artist dies they gain immortality and more status. Page is better than him and Clapton and anyone else. Not even close. How many classic riffs has Page written compared to them? Far more. Layla was great. All Along the Watchtower was great. But Page has far more material that is just super human in quality. PAGE IS THE BEST. Keef is the man, enough said. Listen to a few live albums and come back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-ocean87 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Like whom? Which players?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hi all, Yes it should have said rock guitarists. Al Di Meola anyone? KB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black-Dog Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hi all, Yes it should have said rock guitarists. Al Di Meola anyone? KB Jimmy kicks this shit away with White Summer/Black Mountain Side from 1970 Julie Felix Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well, I advise you to listen to Blow By Blow. Blow by Blow was a great record, so was Wired, There and Back, Guitar Shop........the list goes on. Jeff Beck might be the greatest living guitar play today. The problem with Duane Allman is he simply died too young but that doesn't take away what he was. Again I suggest you listen to "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" from that Fillmore album if you never have. Allman soloed over a modal scale, jazz musicians usually do that not rock players. People need to remember how great Duane Allman was. If goofy polls like this do that, then so much the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Even though he often shows up in these polls, Jerry Garcia is a very understated guitarist. I remember a friend asking me about him a few years ago, wondering why he's always mentioned along with the greats such as Page, Clapton, Duane, Beck, Hendrix, etc. I replied by saying how Garcia wasn't flashy, didn't really jump around on stage, play with his teeth or behind his neck, etc. but he still stood toe to toe with the very best of 'em. Several years ago, I saw Kenny Wayne Shepherd backed by Stevie Ray Vaughan's rhythm section (aka Double Trouble). Kenny spent the majority of his set posturing which I thought greatly detracted from his show. Great player but the showmanship aspect was way over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You forgot to write "in rock-music". Cause in other genres, there are plenty of others whom Jimmy couldn't hold a candle with!!! I mean rock and blues players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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