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British Soldier beheaded on public street

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You're welcome. Being a history nerd has its uses.

Not going :ahhh: at the drop of a pin does too.

... and yay, for history nerds...

What's that saying... those who ignore (or are ignorant of) history are doomed to repeat it? Something like that...

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This woman jumped off a bus when she saw what was happening, and stayed by the body. Here is a photo of her confronting the attacker - she has got some guts.

"...The image shows a man in a brown jacket and carrying what appears to be a large knife speaking to the woman beside a blue car which has significant crash damage. Mother-of-two Ingrid Loyau-Kennett (right) spoke to the alleged attackers after she jumped off a bus to check their victim's pulse. One of the alleged attackers told her 'we want to start a war in London tonight'. The two men are thought to have waited around for 20 minutes until Metropolitan Police officers arrived and then tried to attack them - but were swiftly shot by armed policemen, including a woman." (Source: Daily Mail (UK)).

post-14347-0-14748400-1369287308_thumb.j

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You're welcome. Being a history nerd has its uses.

While it's definitely true terrorism is not exclusive to the islamic variety by any means as history proves, I can see why people are extremely upset because present day, in our current lives, islamic fundamentalists have been responsible for the majority of terror attacks and remain persistent. The IRA is getting drunk now right? The unibomber as the name implies was a loner.
It's been like this for a while now. Last time I was in Israel in the early 80's there were terror warnings just like present day except now it has spread to the west. It's not getting any better. It's getting worse.
If you look at the last 50 years of aviation history for example you will find overwhelmingly islamic terrorists reign 'king' of terror in the skies all around the globe.
Also for example, to compare abortion doctor killings to something like Islamic terrorism, you would actually have to include ALL doctors including pediatricians because they would ALL be considered 'infidels', no targeting of just a segment within the group. In fact, it would probably be considered normal practice to just blow up entire major hospitals and be done with it.
Like the unibomber, Tim Mcveigh was a lone nut. They weren't funded by a group(or government) with similar ideas and intentions.
Actually, the closest thing to american terrorism that I can think of right off hand, similar to Islamic terrorists(but on a much smaller scale) would be the groups like the Weather Underground(which professor Ayers was involved in) and the Black Panthers. Crazy or not, fanatical to whatever degree, they had a focused goal much like Islamic terrorism and had support in place and used violence while trying to reach those goals. Unless I'm mistaken about those whack abortion doctor killings, they usually fall under the lone psycho nut category much like these two fools today. And consider if you will, the terror attacks that have taken in the last year alone and look at what groups were responsible for them. Either they are people who at least identify themselves as being involved in Islamic fundamentalism, or believe themselves to be Batman villains, or school shooters with mental illnesses.
I do think it is "wrong" to say all terrorist are Muslim, because terror does come in many forms, but there is no denying that the more focused and committed terrorists present day are of the Islamic variety.

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What kind of comment is that?

this is true about muslims. they have been killing us for a long time

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While it's definitely true terrorism is not exclusive to the islamic variety by any means as history proves, I can see why people are extremely upset because present day, in our current lives, islamic fundamentalists have been responsible for the majority of terror attacks and remain persistent. The IRA is getting drunk now right? The unibomber as the name implies was a loner.
It's been like this for a while now. Last time I was in Israel in the early 80's there were terror warnings just like present day except now it has spread to the west. It's not getting any better. It's getting worse.
If you look at the last 50 years of aviation history for example you will find overwhelmingly islamic terrorists reign 'king' of terror in the skies all around the globe.
Also for example, to compare abortion doctor killings to something like Islamic terrorism, you would actually have to include ALL doctors including pediatricians because they would ALL be considered 'infidels', no targeting of just a segment within the group. In fact, it would probably be considered normal practice to just blow up entire major hospitals and be done with it.
Like the unibomber, Tim Mcveigh was a lone nut. They weren't funded by a group(or government) with similar ideas and intentions.
Actually, the closest thing to american terrorism that I can think of right off hand, similar to Islamic terrorists(but on a much smaller scale) would be the groups like the Weather Underground(which professor Ayers was involved in) and the Black Panthers. Crazy or not, fanatical to whatever degree, they had a focused goal much like Islamic terrorism and had support in place and used violence while trying to reach those goals. Unless I'm mistaken about those whack abortion doctor killings, they usually fall under the lone psycho nut category much like these two fools today. And consider if you will, the terror attacks that have taken in the last year alone and look at what groups were responsible for them. Either they are people who at least identify themselves as being involved in Islamic fundamentalism, or believe themselves to be Batman villains, or school shooters with mental illnesses.
I do think it is "wrong" to say all terrorist are Muslim, because terror does come in many forms, but there is no denying that the more focused and committed terrorists present day are of the Islamic variety.

Obviously its hard to define "terror attacks" but a lot of stats I remember seeing in the past point to Islamic terror not dominating in the West, left wing, right wing and separatist attacks have all been pretty common in recent decades.

McVeigh didnt work alone and when you look at Islamic terror attacks the majority do tend to be carried out by small groups(or in this case potentially just an individual) rather than having direct state funding or links to the likes of Al Qaeda. I'd argue that the modern extreme right by its very nature tends to be a "group of individuals" as the focus is clearly on strong individualism. The likes of Brevik and McVeigh were clearly ideologically motivated in IMHO a similar way to many Islamic terrorists, the extreme end of a militant but not necessarily violent ideological movement.

Edited by greenman

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Send them home, they don't belong, time for England to clean the garbage out

You've been expressing some anti goverement feelings in threads recently, maybe your a terrorist threat?

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What does "taken down" mean here? Shot and killed, or shot and wounded, but not deceased?

Shot and Wounded.....Now getting the Best Medical Care that is Available...

The Barracks are now locked down which means that the 'Soldiers' are not allowed to leave, how do I know this for sure, I live about 10 mins from where this happened.

BD went to the Barracks last Night to lay Flowers for this poor lad...

As a Parent of a Serving Soldier what his Parents and Family are going through I cannot Imagine. Yes You live in fear when they are on Tour but to be at 'Home and Safe' for this to have happened is beyond comprehension....

Edited by Fool In The Rain 60

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Kate,

I hadn't realised you are the legendary Missus BD - I was friendly with BD on the boards (as were many people) and he is much missed here.

Glad to see BD leaving a tribute for this lad. I remember him telling me that at one point both your boys were in the British Army, so this must be hitting you both very badly. It was touching that the lady I mentioned in my above post stood with the deceased's body for twenty minutes.

I wonder how long this will take to get to trial. Assuming a successful conviction, they will have the bloody brass neck to appeal. In this country we are far too tolerant of these people.

Shot and Wounded.....Now getting the Best Medical Care that is Available...

The Barracks are now locked down which means that the 'Soldiers' are not allowed to leave, how do I know this for sure, I live about 10 mins from where this happened.

BD went to the Barracks last Night to lay Flowers for this poor lad...

As a Parent of a Serving Soldier what his Parents and Family are going through I cannot Imagine. Yes You live in fear when they are on Tour but to be at 'Home and Safe' for this to have happened is beyond comprehension....

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This woman jumped off a bus when she saw what was happening, and stayed by the body. Here is a photo of her confronting the attacker - she has got some guts.

"...The image shows a man in a brown jacket and carrying what appears to be a large knife speaking to the woman beside a blue car which has significant crash damage. Mother-of-two Ingrid Loyau-Kennett (right) spoke to the alleged attackers after she jumped off a bus to check their victim's pulse. One of the alleged attackers told her 'we want to start a war in London tonight'. The two men are thought to have waited around for 20 minutes until Metropolitan Police officers arrived and then tried to attack them - but were swiftly shot by armed policemen, including a woman." (Source: Daily Mail (UK)).

attachicon.gifarticle-2329236-19F1FBCB000005DC-447_964x432.jpg

Is it true that it took the police 20 minutes to get there? Am I the only one who finds that shocking?

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Disgusting racist comment. Reported.

Rather than stifling debate by pulling the "racist" card, why don't you offer your viewpoint?

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Rather than stifling debate by pulling the "racist" card, why don't you offer your viewpoint?

Blaming this murder on 'Islamification' is insulting the religion of Islam and casting blame in the wrong place. We should be more concerned about online radicalisation and the availability of weapons rather than being afraid of embracing other religions and lifestyles.

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Is it true that it took the police 20 minutes to get there? Am I the only one who finds that shocking?

the police were there almost immediately. The Armed Response Unit apparently took longer to get there and take action.

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in the US you have guys doing mass shootings. but those are not considered to be that bad as when it's islamic terrorism.

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Blaming this murder on 'Islamification' is insulting the religion of Islam and casting blame in the wrong place. We should be more concerned about online radicalisation and the availability of weapons rather than being afraid of embracing other religions and lifestyles.

Agreed. If an incident involving the Westboro Baptist Church was reported as simply "something Christians do", rather than radical fundamentalists, this place would be in uproar.

But as an aside I'm not sure "racist" was the right term for his comment .

Edited by Knebby

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Blaming this murder on 'Islamification' is insulting the religion of Islam and casting blame in the wrong place. We should be more concerned about online radicalisation and the availability of weapons rather than being afraid of embracing other religions and lifestyles.

One doesn't have to "embrace" anyone else's belief system, do they? Is it unfair to say that when someone slaughters in the name of this particular religion it fits a current pattern that we've seen play out over and over and over again? Talking about the problem is not the problem.

As for availability of weapons, over 3000 were killed essentially with box cutters. These morons used meat cleavers, how barbaric. Hard to blame availability of weapons for this one.

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the police were there almost immediately. The Armed Response Unit apparently took longer to get there and take action.

So the police are not armed, and there's a separate armed response unit? Do the police have anything? Bobby sticks? Just curious.

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One doesn't have to "embrace" anyone else's belief system, do they? Is it unfair to say that when someone slaughters in the name of this particular religion it fits a current pattern that we've seen play out over and over and over again? Talking about the problem is not the problem.

As for availability of weapons, over 3000 were killed essentially with box cutters. These morons used meat cleavers, how barbaric. Hard to blame availability of weapons for this one

Talking about a "pattern"

How many people were killed in the name of Christianity, and or killed by Christians

(Lemme think, we had the inquisition, some conquistadores, WW1, WW2........Nah, you are right, that's a pityful number compared to what Muslims do.

(sarcasm off)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnRdsSC3YwM

Edited by reswati

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this is the consequence of 100s of years of British imperialism

what i'd like to see is a march by the MCB, tweeting some condemnation just isn't enough

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So the police are not armed, and there's a separate armed response unit? Do the police have anything? Bobby sticks? Just curious.

Taser, stick, spray and cuffs

we dont need armed police, they have already gone mental tasing people by mistake, we dont need another NYPD/LAPD

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Mstork,

That is what is in the article excerpt above, but I'm afraid with the shoddy standard of journalism nowadays, it may or may not be the exact time. I think you have to remember that London is a major city with heavy traffic. I am sure that when the police were alerted, they would have responded asap given the nature of the crime reported.

My reason for posting the excerpt was that I am so impressed with Ingrid Loyau-Kennett's intervention at the crime scene.

Is it true that it took the police 20 minutes to get there? Am I the only one who finds that shocking?

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I am attaching to this post a photograph of the street scene where the innocent victim is lying on the ground (circled left hand side).

From UK Daily Mail:-post-14347-0-57990200-1369307736_thumb.j

A house in a Lincolnshire village has been raided by Met police officers investigating yesterday's alleged terror attack in Woolwich.

Officers swooped on the detached house as the name of one of the suspects was revealed on internet forums and Twitter as Michael Adebolajo.

He has been identified as the alleged killer seen ranting on video shortly after the murder of the soldier in Woolwich.

It is understood the men, who are being treated in separate hospitals while under arrest, are most likely to be British citizens of Nigerian descent who have converted to a radical form of Islam.

However, they are not thought to have links to terror groups based in Nigeria, such as the jihadist militant organisation Boko Haram.

Michael Adebolajo, 28, and his unnamed accomplice are believed to have run down the off-duty British soldier with a Vauxhall Tigra as he walked back to the Woolwich Barracks at 2.20pm yesterday, crushing his body against a road sign.

As they apparently tried to decapitate him they were chanting 'Allah Akbar!’ – an Islamic phrase meaning ‘God is great’ - and yelling 'this is what God would have wanted'.

A blood-soaked Adebolajo, who was still holding a number of weapons in his red-stained hands, then ranted on camera in a clear London accent saying: 'You people will never be safe' before telling a passer-by they had not fled because they were waiting to 'shoot the police'.

Within 20 minutes armed officers arrived and the fundamentalists charged at them wielding firearms, knives and a machete.

Police opened fire, shooting six bullets, leaving one seriously injured. The pair remain under armed guard in two separate London hospitals.

David Cameron today said: 'We will defeat violent extremism by standing together, by backing our police and security services and above all by challenging the poisonous narrative of extremism on which this violence feeds.

Speaking about the courageous actions of Mrs Loyau-Kennett he added: When told by the attacker he wanted to start a war in London she replied "you are going to lose. It’s only you versus many." She speaks for us all.'

Police were today seen outside a £365,000 detached house in a Lincolnshire village where they raided a home where Adebolajo is listed as having lived in the past.

There was no answer at the address believed to be that of Adebolajo's father, named by neighbours as Anthony Adebolajo.

Mr Adebolajo, 56, is believed to be a trained nurse now working in a managerial capacity within the NHS.

The modern property was being monitored by two police patrol cars stationed outside.

Later in the morning, plain clothes officers, thought to be from the Metropolitan Police, arrived at the modern estate and the house and driveway was sealed off with police tape. An officer at the scene described the property as a 'crime scene'.

Mr Adebolajo bought the property in 2002. At one time a woman who wore a burka was thought to live with him.

They believed he had up to four grown up children, although few if any are thought to have stayed at the house for any period of time.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329470/Michael-Adebolajo-named-Woolwich-killers.html#ixzz2U73z5H16

Edited by kenog

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Talking about a "pattern"

How many people were killed in the name of Christianity, and or killed by Christians

(Lemme think, we had the inquisition, some conquistadores, WW1, WW2........Nah, you are right, that's a pityful number compared to what Muslims do.

(sarcasm off)

You're right, the inquisition is to blame, these poor lads who kill and maim in the name of Islam today simply have no choice. Their prophet didn't command them to convert by the sword, it's all everyone else's fault. How insensitive of me, moral equivalence is the answer. (Sarcasm off)

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Taser, stick, spray and cuffs

we dont need armed police, they have already gone mental tasing people by mistake, we dont need another NYPD/LAPD

Taser, stick, spray and cuffs

we dont need armed police, they have already gone mental tasing people by mistake, we dont need another NYPD/LAPD

Is it then a fair question to ask why they didn't tase these idiots, who after all were using knives?

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Is it then a fair question to ask why they didn't tase these idiots, who after all were using knives?

It is indeed fair - they also had a gun. I think it was impossible to safely get close enough to them to use a taser.

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