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Underrated/overrated shows


Cosmic_Equilibrium
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Haven't seen this discussion for a while and thought it would be interesting to get it going again.

Underrated:

1) LA Forum 22/06/1977. Several people have mentioned this one as potentially the greatest shows of the 77 tour, and I have to agree with them. The band is just ON here, if anything even more so than the previous night. The main drawback is the sound quality, but it says a lot that in spite of that I keep coming back to this perfomance all the time. Best version of IMTOD ever. One of the two or three best versions of Kashmir ever. Phenomenal energy all the way through and if Millard had been there this show would be in the top 10 of most people's lists.

2) San Francisco 26/04/1969. Most people go to the 24th, which has great sound quality, or the 27th, which seems to be a favourite show of the early days to listen to. Both of those are great performances, but the 26th has the edge on the other nights around it - the band is white hot on here. Again, it's a case of a sub-par recording putting people off somewhat, but with a bit of effort this is a rewarding listen.

3) Knebworth 04/08/1979. I get the feeling a lot of people tend to be too disparaging of this show, either thinking it's a slightly uneven performance, or that the Copenhagen shows massively overshadow it. I honestly don't really get either claim, I think the band are absolutely firing on all cylinders. They do sound a little tense here and there through nerves, but I think this is regarded as one of Zeppelin's classic shows for a reason. Best version of Achilles Last Stand ever - top two or three at least - and also the best versions of ITE and WLL around, plus another superb version of Kashmir. I appreciate that the performances are just as good on Copenhagen, but the better sound quality of Knebworth gives it an edge. I do agree that the following week's show wasn't as good though.

4) Vancouver 19/03/1975. Best show of the 1975 tour. Possibly the best SB recording ever, more bass than usual. Spectacular version of NQ too.

5) Several 1971 shows - take your pick. I could choose Hiroshima (the overlooked show of the Japan tour), or the first night at Berkeley (almost as good as the following evening). The UK winter tour stands out though, with several really nice performances ranging from the relaxed (Newcastle) to the wild and passionate (Manchester), though one has to get past the sound quality on a lot of the recordings. I think generally the live standard of the band in 1971 was so high that nearly every show seems to qualify as either very good or brilliant.

 

Overrated: LA Forum 1975. All three of these shows are fine, but I can't really get into them - the band sound quite tired and worn out, and seem to lack the energy and inspiration of the previous week.

Edited by Cosmic_Equilibrium
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2 hours ago, Cosmic_Equilibrium said:

Overrated: LA Forum 1975. All three of these shows are fine, but I can't really get into them - the band sound quite tired and worn out, and seem to lack the energy and inspiration of the previous week.

I agree, but were those ever rated highly? 

You should be careful of criticizing Zep on a Zep forum, you might get called a troll lol.

 

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3 hours ago, Cosmic_Equilibrium said:

Haven't seen this discussion for a while and thought it would be interesting to get it going again.

Underrated:

4) Vancouver 19/03/1975. Best show of the 1975 tour. Possibly the best SB recording ever, more bass than usual. Spectacular version of NQ too.

Overrated: LA Forum 1975. All three of these shows are fine, but I can't really get into them - the band sound quite tired and worn out, and seem to lack the energy and inspiration of the previous week.

(lol, continuing our discussion from the NQ thread) I would rank 3-19 higher than 3-17 or 3-20 (even though I prefer NQ from 3-20) - you're right, it's a fantastic show. I also rank it higher than 3-24 and 3-25, but I'll go with 3-27 over it because of all the insane extended solos Jimmy is into that night. It also faces stiff competition as a whole from 3-12 and 3-21, what do you think about those nights?

Underrated: 1-29-75 (Greensboro) - sound quality is okay and the band sounds great, even if I play it back to back with a Feb-March show. Jimmy isn't at his best because of his finger but only in the sense that he doesn't go totally crazy with the solos (as opposed to, say, being sloppy which he isn't), and the vibe and energy are definitely there. I like it!

Overrated: Destroyer (I guess), maybe (just a tad) 6-21-77 (I'm going to duck now)

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3 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

I think the EC shows are over-rated.

I think some of the 80 tour is under-rated. I particularly like SIBLY from that tour and All my Love.

I was at the last night of the EC concerts , have never seen anything before or since that comes close.

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1 minute ago, Victor said:

I was at the last night of the EC concerts , have never seen anything before or since that comes close.

Love it!  Care to offer more?  I personally love the EC run.  A best of 5/23, 24 and 25 would make for one ridiculously good & HEAVY live album.

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2 hours ago, LedElvis75 said:

Love it!  Care to offer more?  I personally love the EC run.  A best of 5/23, 24 and 25 would make for one ridiculously good & HEAVY live album.

I did do a write up back in '75 will see if I can find it!

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6/23/77 LA.    I think since it’s famous and Keith Moon was a guest that everyone praises it.   Achilles Laat stand it good. 

I tbink 6/21 and 6/27 have much better No Quarters easily.  6/23 No Quarer is nice the the middle section doesn’t take me where I need to go.  

Plus to many broken strings and mess ups. If the recording was poor I’d guess not many could praise it as much 

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Definitely agree about 6/22/77. Honestly, I think if a better aud recording or soundboard were to surface, it would pretty much blow away Eddie and Badgeholders. It combines the tightness of 6/21 with the looseness and fun of 6/23. The only flaws are a couple of broken strings by Page, which are nothing in the grand scheme of things. IMHO, that show has definitive renditions of IMTOD, OTHAFA, and ALS (yes, even with the broken string. Never heard a more brutal version). I'd also throw in 6/26/77 as another underrated show.

Other underrated shows for me are:

4/17/70 - EPIC How Many More Times. Amazing performance unfortunately overlooked due to the recording just being okay.

8/21/71 - I'm listening to this right now and...HOLY SHIT!!! :blink: Unreal vocals from Robert, phenomenal drum sound on the recording, maybe the best versions of Rock and Roll and Thank You ever, and an incredible Whole Lotta Love. Quite possibly the best show of the 1971 US tour.

4/2/73 - Seems to be a bit overlooked compared to some other Euro 73 shows. Robert's voice is probably in the best shape of the whole tour, and TSRTS is unbelievable.

7/23/73 - If this had better sound, I think it would be recognized as the best show of the tour. Page's playing is out of this world, and Plant's voice never sounded better for '73.

1/22/75 - A pretty strong performance considering the circumstances. Plus rarities like The Wanton Song and How Many More Times. Pretty good recording too.

5/18/75 - IMHO, the best Earls Court show. Incredible NQ, fantastic OTHAFA, and the entire band is tight and on it. Never drags at any point.

5/18/77 - An excellent '77 show that never seems to get talked about much. Despite the recording being less than stellar, the band is playing very well. Considering how this was the first show of the 2nd leg, it's quite remarkable.

7/17/77 - Not quite the disaster that some make it out to be. I think it's a show best appreciated with the audience recording. Bonham is killing it and Page has flashes of brilliance (ex. Stairway solo).

Overrated:

9/14/71 - I hate to put this show here, as I quite enjoy it and it has amazing moments (ex. Heartbreaker, SIBLY, the acoustic set), but I don't think it's the best show of the tour. I'd put Orlando and the LA shows above it any day. I've also never gotten into WLL from this show. It's good, but nothing special, at least to me.

5/31/73 - I may need to give this show another listen, but I wasn't blown away by it the first time I heard it unlike others. For me, it's a good solid show, but there's nothing here that wasn't done better at other shows of the tour. I also found the constant switch between the soundboard and audience recordings rather distracting.

5/24/75 - Never understood the praise this show gets. It's got flashes of brilliance (Stairway, TUF, WLL, Dazed), but I think it's easily the worst of all the Earls Court shows. I remember the first time I saw Rock and Roll from this show and was profoundly disappointed. The first third of this show is very sluggish, with Bonham in particular seeming off. Don't know if he overindulged, was nervous, or was having problems with his monitors, but something is definitely not right. Also think NQ is quite overrated. For me, it's just solid, without any amazing moments.

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4 hours ago, Victor said:

I was at the last night of the EC concerts , have never seen anything before or since that comes close.

Fair dos.

Attending a concert in 1975 and listening to a soundboard/multi-track, or watching mostly static footage, decades later is like comparing apples and oranges.

I'm judging it solely on the performance and comparing it to other concerts I've listened to or watched, especially some of the good dates on the 75 North American tour like Vancouver.

I'm sure you had a great night and it was an amazing experience.

 

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2 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

Definitely agree about 6/22/77. Honestly, I think if a better aud recording or soundboard were to surface, it would pretty much blow away Eddie and Badgeholders. It combines the tightness of 6/21 with the looseness and fun of 6/23. The only flaws are a couple of broken strings by Page, which are nothing in the grand scheme of things. IMHO, that show has definitive renditions of IMTOD, OTHAFA, and ALS (yes, even with the broken string. Never heard a more brutal version). I'd also throw in 6/26/77 as another underrated show.

Other underrated shows for me are:

4/17/70 - EPIC How Many More Times. Amazing performance unfortunately overlooked due to the recording just being okay.

8/21/71 - I'm listening to this right now and...HOLY SHIT!!! :blink: Unreal vocals from Robert, phenomenal drum sound on the recording, maybe the best versions of Rock and Roll and Thank You ever, and an incredible Whole Lotta Love. Quite possibly the best show of the 1971 US tour.

4/2/73 - Seems to be a bit overlooked compared to some other Euro 73 shows. Robert's voice is probably in the best shape of the whole tour, and TSRTS is unbelievable.

7/23/73 - If this had better sound, I think it would be recognized as the best show of the tour. Page's playing is out of this world, and Plant's voice never sounded better for '73.

1/22/75 - A pretty strong performance considering the circumstances. Plus rarities like The Wanton Song and How Many More Times. Pretty good recording too.

5/18/75 - IMHO, the best Earls Court show. Incredible NQ, fantastic OTHAFA, and the entire band is tight and on it. Never drags at any point.

5/18/77 - An excellent '77 show that never seems to get talked about much. Despite the recording being less than stellar, the band is playing very well. Considering how this was the first show of the 2nd leg, it's quite remarkable.

7/17/77 - Not quite the disaster that some make it out to be. I think it's a show best appreciated with the audience recording. Bonham is killing it and Page has flashes of brilliance (ex. Stairway solo).

Overrated:

9/14/71 - I hate to put this show here, as I quite enjoy it and it has amazing moments (ex. Heartbreaker, SIBLY, the acoustic set), but I don't think it's the best show of the tour. I'd put Orlando and the LA shows above it any day. I've also never gotten into WLL from this show. It's good, but nothing special, at least to me.

5/31/73 - I may need to give this show another listen, but I wasn't blown away by it the first time I heard it unlike others. For me, it's a good solid show, but there's nothing here that wasn't done better at other shows of the tour. I also found the constant switch between the soundboard and audience recordings rather distracting.

5/24/75 - Never understood the praise this show gets. It's got flashes of brilliance (Stairway, TUF, WLL, Dazed), but I think it's easily the worst of all the Earls Court shows. I remember the first time I saw Rock and Roll from this show and was profoundly disappointed. The first third of this show is very sluggish, with Bonham in particular seeming off. Don't know if he overindulged, was nervous, or was having problems with his monitors, but something is definitely not right. Also think NQ is quite overrated. For me, it's just solid, without any amazing moments.

Have to agree with you on just about all of the above.  8/21/71 LA also has the best Black Dog ever IMO.

I have been trying, unsuccessfully, to find Baltimore '73 for years after reading TYOLZ review on it!  Any chance you might know how to find it?

5/31/73 isn't the best of '73, but I still think it's a great show--Bonham is "banging his balls out" as Plant says they should let him do before Moby Dick, and Jimmy plays pretty impressively considering it's right after he sprained his finger.  I've never listened to the SBD, but they sound quite powerful that night on the AUD.

Agree on 5/24/75--has some verging-on-all-time-great versions from TUF to the end, but before that, it's actually a below-average '75 show at best IMO.

Edited by Bonzo_fan
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Underrated-

Montreal 75. This show is marred by Plant's voice and annoying loudmouths in the audience, but Page is playing quite well for a broken finger.

Providence 73- Incredible performance with a murky recording.

Overrated- 

I'll agree on 5/24/75. I recently watched these shows again and the band is definitely more "on" on the 25th.

The 73 European shows on average. They certainly had some highlights, but really aren't a lot better than the rest of the tour. They just seemed to be a lot more experimental.

Obviously, Southampton 73. I personally love the show because of the intimate, multitracked recording. But they play a little too loosely and Plant's voice is really rough.

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11 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Overrated-

Obviously, Southampton 73. I personally love the show because of the intimate, multitracked recording. But they play a little too loosely and Plant's voice is really rough.

This. I've always felt that this was the sound of a band warming up after a break and not yet hitting its stride. If anything, Southampton gets maybe one play a year from me and it pretty much turned me off to getting anything else from the '72-'73 UK tour. Europe on the other hand, in constant rotation.

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I like the Southampton show but it is a very loose and laid back performance, with the exception of a great HMMT/CB. I do value the recording quality and also how low key it is - the biggest band of their time playing a student union hall at the same period they were headlining multiple nights at huge US venues. The contrast is interesting. 

Don't write off the UK tour because of it though - check out Stoke from a week earlier, that is a pretty underrated performance. 

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9 minutes ago, Cosmic_Equilibrium said:

I like the Southampton show but it is a very loose and laid back performance, with the exception of a great HMMT/CB. I do value the recording quality and also how low key it is - the biggest band of their time playing a student union hall at the same period they were headlining multiple nights at huge US venues. The contrast is interesting. 

 

This is exactly why I made a case for Southampton being the most important bootleg for the band. The sound quality, the small audience, the loose, imperfect but inspired playing, the set list. I like to put it on and pretend the band is playing in my garage lol. If only Plant would've warmed up pre-show.

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On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 10:17 AM, Cosmic_Equilibrium said:

I like the Southampton show but it is a very loose and laid back performance, with the exception of a great HMMT/CB. I do value the recording quality and also how low key it is - the biggest band of their time playing a student union hall at the same period they were headlining multiple nights at huge US venues. The contrast is interesting. 

Don't write off the UK tour because of it though - check out Stoke from a week earlier, that is a pretty underrated performance. 

Agreed, the first leg (in Dec72) of the UK tour is particularly excellent, Manchester and Glasgow are two of my favorite shows.

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Yep, the Manchester show is good. So too is the one from the Winter 71 tour, although it sounds like it was recorded at the bottom of the ocean. Zeppelin always seemed to play good shows in Manchester.

Not sure how underrated this is, but after playing it on Youtube last night I'll throw in Nassau 14/02/75 - a great show and the equal of the MSG one two days earlier. The band were on good form in those mid-Feb shows. The St. Louis one from the 16th is a solid performance too.

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I think this one is underrated just cause I don't see it mentioned all too often. I've brought it up a few times lately.

Hawaii 1970 is an incredible, fierce show. A lot of improv, a lot of passion, Plant in absolute peak condition. A very short set, which maybe contributes to them going all out on each song. Decent enough sound.

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  • 2 months later...

Over -

new orleans 73

alot of 1973 shows to me lacked a bottom sound . Page was more a lead soloist here than a combined LS and rhythm player. His tone I didn't like , not to say that some if the SRTS stuff isn't great but some songs that need a heavy bottom to sound proper, didn't  go down well in this tour .

ex- MMHop - terrible shallow sounding 

WLL-'the main riff which draws on its baritone like tone sounds empty.

Black Dog - another one where the riff sounds empty. Much better in 1975 with more bottom.

 

Under -

Copenhagen birth shows 1979

Knebworth 8/4/79

Montreal 75 killer Page 

Philly 75 

some of the Europe 80 shows are quite good with great versions of All My Love and Achilles.

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I don't know if underrated is the right word for some of the shows I'm thinking about off the top of my head; maybe not quite valued enough (whatever)...

Maybe some of the 73 shows with a shorter and maybe darker tone to No Quarter, can't remember exact dates, but Seattle springs to mind. 

 

A variety of '75 shows--still haven't heard the entire St. Louis Blues, but the "Quarter," from that show rates as the best. Dallas 3-5-75 or the 3rd, whatever city it was in, Kings of the Stone Age, St. Valentines Day, maybe the Vancouver shows; but those always get mentioned.

As for later years, Houston '77, Ft. Worth, Seattle and Copenhagen warm-ups. I would say the 1st Knebworth, but I always put that one up there with Earl's Court. Nothing wrong with Jimmy on that night (Over the Hills)...

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Overrated: 1980 tour

I never understood why it gets some praise. Well, some performances are ok. However, from a guitar players POV the whole tour is just an awful display of professionalism, even by a R'n'R Band's standard.

Edited by the-ocean87
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^^ I think I forgot the 80 run. I would put that in the underrated pile. The more full shows I listen to, the more I don't get the groveling about how "fucked up" Page was on a given night. Even the White Summers are a good listen--nice setlist, too; even if they dropped NQ and Sick Again. 

 

To each their own...  😏

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On 2/22/2018 at 8:53 AM, Cosmic_Equilibrium said:

4) Vancouver 19/03/1975. Best show of the 1975 tour. Possibly the best SB recording ever, more bass than usual. Spectacular version of NQ too.

YES.  The bass sounds so good!   

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