Knebby Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Chicago, I have to disagree. I was at may of the 98 shows too, and sometimes Jimmy was really disappointing. Hate to say it, but its true, and that was the consensus among those I attended with. FWIW I didn't spot ANY weak link at the O2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Chicago, I have to disagree. I was at may of the 98 shows too, and sometimes Jimmy was really disappointing. Hate to say it, but its true, and that was the consensus among those I attended with. FWIW I didn't spot ANY weak link at the O2. Point out to me the shows where Page played below par and I'll give a listen. A few of the shows I saw Robert forget the words or was completely out of key vocally and it was obvious. I didn't think Page should ditch Robert because of those glaring mistakes. If you were a guitar player maybe you'd see things from another angle. I'll admit to my Page bias. Others should admit their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Point out to me the shows where Page played below par and I'll give a listen. A few of the shows I saw Robert forget the words or was completely out of key vocally and it was obvious. I didn't think Page should ditch Robert because of those glaring mistakes. If you were a guitar player maybe you'd see things from another angle. I'll admit to my Page bias. Others should admit their own. Everyone has off nights - including Jimmy and even in Zep I've heard people who have seen shows say that. Doesn't mean I don't think he's an amazing guitarist but he isn't perfect and neither is Robert. I don't think Robert's forgetting some lyrics has anything to do with the decision that was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Point out to me the shows where Page played below par and I'll give a listen. A few of the shows I saw Robert forget the words or was completely out of key vocally and it was obvious. I didn't think Page should ditch Robert because of those glaring mistakes. If you were a guitar player maybe you'd see things from another angle. I'll admit to my Page bias. Others should admit their own. You really wanna know who my favourite member of Led Zeppelin is? Jimmy Page. You don't even know if I'm a guitar player or not. And if you were me - maybe YOU would see things from a different angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Everyone has off nights - including Jimmy and even in Zep I've heard people who have seen shows say that. Doesn't mean I don't think he's an amazing guitarist but he isn't perfect and neither is Robert. I don't think Robert's forgetting some lyrics has anything to do with the decision that was made. I've seen and heard the brilliant nights and the weaker lackluster moments so I'm familiar with the scenario. It's still very unclear as to the pair's dissolution but recent not so subtle accusations were that Jimmy Page was some rip-roaring fucked up drunk on the 1998 tour. I'm not going to go with that line of attack as the shows I saw on that tour were some of Page's finest. No one's going to convince me otherwise of what I witnessed. Sorry Revisionist Society of the 1998 tour. I didn't see Robert's Raising Sand tour but others I know did and found it lame. It's just someone's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I've seen and heard the brilliant nights and the weaker lackluster moments so I'm familiar with the scenario. It's still very unclear as to the pair's dissolution but recent not so subtle accusations were that Jimmy Page was some rip-roaring fucked up drunk on the 1998 tour. I'm not going to go with that line of attack as the shows I saw on that tour were some of Page's finest. No one's going to convince me otherwise of what I witnessed. Sorry Revisionist Society of the 1998 tour. I didn't see Robert's Raising Sand tour but others I know did and found it lame. It's just someone's viewpoint. I wasn't challenging you that the shows you saw in 98 were brilliant. I'm sure they were but my point was everyone has off nights and there have been people at other shows who felt Page's playing was not up to par. It's not revising anything - just what happens. People have off nights. I'd not slag a whole tour because of it unless there were more off nights than good ones. I wouldn't say the Raising Sand tour was lame. It was a different energy but I saw a few shows and the ones I saw I can't say anyone in the band or Robert and Alison weren't 100% on, especially the end of the tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 You really wanna know who my favourite member of Led Zeppelin is? Jimmy Page. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you hardest on the one's you love the most? Most of your digs come at the expense of Mr. Page. I've followed your posts long enough to assume you're not a musician and that's cool. But when I'm commenting on Page's playing it's frequently from a technical standpoint and that's where I contrast and compare his playing approach in different eras of his career. It's not a putdown towards you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 You really wanna know who my favourite member of Led Zeppelin is? Jimmy Page. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you hardest on the one's you love the most? Most of your digs come at the expense of Mr. Page. I've followed your posts long enough to assume you're not a musician and that's cool. But when I'm commenting on Page's playing it's frequently from a technical standpoint and that's where I contrast and compare his playing approach in different eras of his career. It's not a putdown towards you. I could reply at length but you know what ? You're a friend of mine on this forum and I don't need to try to be right at the expense of that friendship. All I will say is - what "digs"? You posted your opinion of the 98 tour saying it was the "general consensus". I replied saying that that was not actually the general consensus among any people I know (you're the first person I've ever encountered who thinks that whole tour was a fine example of Jimmy's playing). That's not a dig at Jimmy, thats just the truth - I even said I hate to say it. PEACE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I could reply at length but you know what ? You're a friend of mine on this forum and I don't need to try to be right at the expense of that friendship. All I will say is - what "digs"? You posted your opinion of the 98 tour saying it was the "general consensus". I replied saying that that was not actually the general consensus among any people I know (you're the first person I've ever encountered who thinks that whole tour was a fine example of Jimmy's playing). That's not a dig at Jimmy, thats just the truth - I even said I hate to say it. PEACE. There appears to be serious discrepancies involving this tour. The shows I saw were hot, some shows you saw were not . If Jimmy was playing like crap I would have stated such. I know musicians have ebbs and flows in their playing and being humans you can't also be in tip top form. As a tour in overview I thought it was representative of some of Page's finer later day playing. I didn't say every show was magnificent. You're a friend, I'll leave it alone also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'm actually not trying to get into a battle with you here, SunChild, but the others have known of Robert's decision for quite some time - buildup may have come to an unexpected "abrupt end" for fans like yourself, ( I distinguish you from other fans like myself who never expected it to happen)- but certainly not for the other members - and they've had plenty of time to "regroup". Well, as you aren't telling us how long "quite some time" is, I have no way to judge that. They could've known since August 30th, or September 27th, or since April... I do know Plant has been known to suddenly change his mind, and I do know that the build up towards a re-launch of Zeppelin is not some strange hallucination I've been having. As Zeppelin, they took several months preparing for one show, so, if Page, Jones and Bonham now take several months buttoning up their current project, that's fine by me. If Plant has known his intentions for quite some time, then he left all the fans (except those, like you, who have inside knowledge of what's going on, which I presume is not that many people) hanging in anticipation, while buzz kept right on building. Coincidentally, this helped him in his endeavors throughout the year. I know you disagree, but IMO it was his responsibility to make an announcement, since clearly the others remained willing to work with him. Anyway, it's puzzling to me why he has the right to stay silent (to his own benefit), but the others are supposed to immediately shout their intentions, as soon as Plant releases them publically. Jimmy said we'd hear in the fall, and in my neck of the woods, it's still fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr E Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'd quite like to see Lenny Kravitz be the new singer. They could throw in Are You Gonna Go My Way into the set list too. Great riff. Far better than the utter wank that Myles Kennedy plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbalahone Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'd quite like to see Lenny Kravitz be the new singer. They could throw in Are You Gonna Go My Way into the set list too. Great riff. Far better than the utter wank that Myles Kennedy plays. That's a great suggestion. He not only can sing, he's got passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Well, as you aren't telling us how long "quite some time" is, I have no way to judge that. They could've known since August 30th, or September 27th, or since April... I do know Plant has been known to suddenly change his mind, and I do know that the build up towards a re-launch of Zeppelin is not some strange hallucination I've been having. As Zeppelin, they took several months preparing for one show, so, if Page, Jones and Bonham now take several months buttoning up their current project, that's fine by me. If Plant has known his intentions for quite some time, then he left all the fans (except those, like you, who have inside knowledge of what's going on, which I presume is not that many people) hanging in anticipation, while buzz kept right on building. Coincidentally, this helped him in his endeavors throughout the year. I know you disagree, but IMO it was his responsibility to make an announcement, since clearly the others remained willing to work with him. Anyway, it's puzzling to me why he has the right to stay silent (to his own benefit), but the others are supposed to immediately shout their intentions, as soon as Plant releases them publically. Jimmy said we'd hear in the fall, and in my neck of the woods, it's still fall.Yeah we do disagree, on most of this, and its pointless me going round in circles repeating it all again. Its not my place to make any statements on behalf of anybody as you well know, but as a mark of respect in this discussion I will say they've known since before the first date you speculated on. But yeah its still autumn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Chicago, I have to disagree. I was at may of the 98 shows too, and sometimes Jimmy was really disappointing. Hate to say it, but its true, and that was the consensus among those I attended with. FWIW I didn't spot ANY weak link at the O2. Totally agreed on the lack of a weak link at O2. I only saw two shows in '98; in NJ he was merely great. In the Garden he was un-freaking-believable. Granted that's only two shows but this isn't the first time you've suggested that he was a problem on that tour and I've always found that hard to believe based strictly on what I saw at those shows. Robert really opened up about Jimmy in one of the post-O2 interviews, I forget which magazine it was, so I don't doubt what you're saying. In those same interviews he also clearly stated that Jimmy is 'back" and was finally the same guy he used to be before his "problems". That's the kind of talk that made me think Robert would come back into the fold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'd quite like to see Lenny Kravitz be the new singer. They could throw in Are You Gonna Go My Way into the set list too. Great riff. Far better than the utter wank that Myles Kennedy plays. I love Lenny too! Hmmmm Lenny Zeppelin, ahahahahha!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunChild Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Yeah we do disagree, on most of this, and its pointless me going round in circles repeating it all again. Its not my place to make any statements on behalf of anybody as you well know, but as a mark of respect in this discussion I will say they've known since before the first date you speculated on. But yeah its still autumn. Thank you, that's food for thought. Doesn't change my mind, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 FWIW I didn't spot ANY weak link at the O2. Totally agreed on the lack of a weak link at O2. ------------------------------------------------------------------- My comment about a weak link at the 02 show was in regards to Rockola's saying Page's breaking of his finger caused Robert to disregard Jimmy's 02 performance. I was responding to an absurd analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-ocean87 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Totally agreed on the lack of a weak link at O2. I only saw two shows in '98; in NJ he was merely great. In the Garden he was un-freaking-believable. Granted that's only two shows but this isn't the first time you've suggested that he was a problem on that tour and I've always found that hard to believe based strictly on what I saw at those shows. Robert really opened up about Jimmy in one of the post-O2 interviews, I forget which magazine it was, so I don't doubt what you're saying. In those same interviews he also clearly stated that Jimmy is 'back" and was finally the same guy he used to be before his "problems". That's the kind of talk that made me think Robert would come back into the fold... I wasn't at any P&P show but I listened to many boots and videos from the 1995/1996 and 1998 Tour. I think that he played better on the 1998 tour. Especially at the Bizarre Festival in Germany he plays really well. But not to compare with earlier glory. I think that he was often drunk at the shows. Wasn't the 02 show the first show he played without drinking? His post 1977 performances have been to inconsistant. Its sad, if you compare it with the performances from the other guys in his age. They all get better with the years. Jimmy doesn't. But Page is still a legend and will always be respected for his achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yucko Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I've seen and heard the brilliant nights and the weaker lackluster moments so I'm familiar with the scenario. It's still very unclear as to the pair's dissolution but recent not so subtle accusations were that Jimmy Page was some rip-roaring fucked up drunk on the 1998 tour. I'm not going to go with that line of attack as the shows I saw on that tour were some of Page's finest. No one's going to convince me otherwise of what I witnessed. Sorry Revisionist Society of the 1998 tour. I didn't see Robert's Raising Sand tour but others I know did and found it lame. It's just someone's viewpoint. I have heard rumors over the years that Page's drinking on the 98 tour was why Robert walked away from it, as well as any future projects, and was a major reason he has never worked with Jason, as alcohol was what killed Bonzo, and it freaked Plant out. Unproven rumors, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leding lady Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I've been to several Page/Plant (both sets of tours) and Page/Crowes shows, and they were all spectacular. Jimmy was in top form at all of them, and played as well or better than in Zep. ALL the performers were awesome, actually... but Jimmy was the best one. (Favoritism? You bet.) I'm not doubting he may have had off nights just like everyone, but what I personally saw and heard was perfection in sound, motion and emotion. He played at 1000%. I wasn't at the 02 in Dec., but from what I've heard of the boots, everyone was fantastic there too. Robert's voice may have sounded a bit thin/frail in spots, but that would be the only thing approximating a weak link IMO, if there was one -- which I'm not saying there was. They were all pretty tight and sounded fabulous and the energy was palpable. For the new project, I'm sure Myles Kennedy or whoever the singer(s) will be, will have off-days/nights/moments as well. That's okay and just part of being human, darn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_72 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 That's a great suggestion. He not only can sing, he's got passion. Oh yes, yes, I love Lenny Kravitz!! I think he would do very well and is very talented. That man rocks my socks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I have heard rumors over the years that Page's drinking on the 98 tour was why Robert walked away from it, as well as any future projects, and was a major reason he has never worked with Jason, as alcohol was what killed Bonzo, and it freaked Plant out. Unproven rumors, of course. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's see. Neither you or ocean 87 saw any shows from the 1998 tour but you're both sure Page was drunk and fucked up throughout the tour. That's some insight. Thanks for telling me what I saw. Maybe Page should give his honest take on the duo's demise, because it's being revised here as of late. Thank God Keith Richards doesn't have to put up with this bullshit before he hits the stage. I'm sure Mick tells Keith no cocktails before or during the show.If musicians had to take a piss test before a gig you'd have a sea of empty venues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royalrumpus Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Lenny Kravitz has my vote. He's got range, emotion, personality and swagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Lenny Kravitz has my vote. He's got range, emotion, personality and swagger. Not sure if Lenny could handle a lot of the Zeppelin material. Sure he has range, but I don't think quite enough. Not the range RP has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 This could turn out to be the 3Js Audition a New Singer Tour, with several singers temporarily passing through the spotlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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