59LesPaul Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Lyrics v Music, what do you consider to be important? I consider the idea that not everything has to be a question of "VS". To me,a great song is a perfect balance of both.There's no competition between good lyrics and good music,the work together to make a song soar above mediocrity.When I have a song stuck in my head,I usually articulate that feeling vocally-I once had "Dead Flowers" stuck in my head,but didn't know all the words at the time,so I just kept singing the chorus over-and-over,for an entire week......and to this day,I STILL love the song,because of the combination of the two. ....but now I know all the words. Did I mention that the singing was out loud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I don't really think it's possible to have a great song without both. I mean, you could have some great music with lyrics that are absolute shit, or you could have really deep and meaningful lyrics that sound like they're being sung over a Casio keyboard being played by a disabled chimp. Either way, that song is going to suck. I think LZ managed to do both very well......really great music with lyrics that while at times could be a little odd (a spring clean for the May Queen?), with very few exceptions, they didn't do shit songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackandGold Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I don't really think it's possible to have a great song without both. I mean, you could have some great music with lyrics that are absolute shit, or you could have really deep and meaningful lyrics that sound like they're being sung over a Casio keyboard being played by a disabled chimp. Either way, that song is going to suck. I think LZ managed to do both very well......really great music with lyrics that while at times could be a little odd (a spring clean for the May Queen?), with very few exceptions, they didn't do shit songs. Technically you need lyrics and a vocal part to call a musical composition a song. Without lyrics, you have an instrumental. Lyrics without music would be a poem or prose. If lyrics are sung without music it is an a cappella song. So in the most literal sense, the lyrics are what make a song. Many of Led Zeppelin's songs could stand alone as musical compositions and be great. The Rain song is an example of a gorgeous piece of music. But the lyrics and vocal expression of love and yearning, happiness and sadness, elevate the song to something truly special. You absolutely could not substitute lyrics about cookies or anything else and have the same impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Technically you need lyrics and a vocal part to call a musical composition a song. Without lyrics, you have an instrumental. Lyrics without music would be a poem or prose. If lyrics are sung without music it is an a cappella song. So in the most literal sense, the lyrics are what make a song. I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil's Haircut Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 So is great music without lyrics called a song or a tune or what? If you have 10 pieces of music on a playlist and 3 don't have lyrics, would you say I have 10 songs on my iPod or how would you say it? This question isn't directed at anyone in particular, I just wonder about the semantics. Personally I say tunes for all of it, lyrical or instrumental. And if a song must have lyrics, why do people refer to birds singing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glicine Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 So is great music without lyrics called a song or a tune or what? If you have 10 pieces of music on a playlist and 3 don't have lyrics, would you say I have 10 songs on my iPod or how would you say it? This question isn't directed at anyone in particular, I just wonder about the semantics. Personally I say tunes for all of it, lyrical or instrumental. And if a song must have lyrics, why do people refer to birds singing ? According to the mighty wiki A song is a musical composition. In the classical tradition, songs contain vocal parts that are performed, 'sung,' and feature words (lyrics), commonly accompanied by musical instruments (exceptions would be a cappella songs). The words of songs are typically of a poetic, rhyming nature, although they may be religious verses or free prose. The words are the lyrics. Songs are typically for a solo singer, though there may also be a duet, trio, or more voices (works with more than one voice to a part, however, are considered choral). Songs can be broadly divided into many different forms, depending on the criteria used. One division is between "art songs", "popular music songs", and "folk songs". Other common methods of classification are by purpose (sacred vs secular), by style (dance, ballad, Lieder, etc), or by time of origin (Renaissance, Contemporary, etc). Colloquially, song is sometimes used to refer to any music composition, even those without vocals. In European classical music, jazz, brass band, popular music, and many other musical styles however, this usage is considered incorrect. "Song" should only be used to describe a composition for the human vocals.In music styles that are predominantly vocal-based, a composition without vocals is often called an instrumental. A musical piece that may be either with or without vocals can be called a melody, a tune, or a composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil's Haircut Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 ^ Ha! They agree with me on the choice of calling ALL music A TUNE !!! I want a prize! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle87 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Music The lyrics are important, but without the music, they're nothing (maybe a poem but nothing more than that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 "Let the music be your master, will you heed the masters call?" I'll go along with that, music over lyrics any day. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harris Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Lyrics versus music I suppose lyrics play an important part in some kinds of music. Political activist stuff and love songs etc. I am of the opinion they take second stage in Zeppelin songs and are nowhere near as important as the music. I can hardly hear the words to some of them - Carouselambra, In the Evening, Custard Pie , I’m sure there are more - and wouldn’t have a clue what was being sung/sang if I hadn't read them! “I saw a lion he was standing alone with a tadpole in a jar” “Darlene ooooh ooooh Darlene yeah yeah Darlene oh etc” huh? Zeppelin lyrics don’t have much effect on the finished product and aren’t crucial to the overall sound. They could actually be changed to something else and it wouldn’t matter. Maybe that says more about me than anything else There are some Zeppelin songs that have good lyrics , but it is the music that really takes centre stage. Robert could be singing about cookies for all I care! “dontcha want, dontcha wanta cookie coookie cookie” What does everyone else think? Someone once said about led zeppelin "Their lyrics are like dungeons and dragons except their music is like bethoven rock". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_72 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 They can go hand in hand I think, but it is the sound of the music first that gets me going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolivalhalla Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Both things are important and LZ learned to integrate them very well. If the lyrics were not very elaborate they compensated this with tremendous musical arrangements, exceptional counterpoints, guitar solos from beyond, ancestral vocalizations, etc and vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Dog_90 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Interesting question. Very interesting. There is so much to talk about this. Both music and lyrics are important things. Personally, for me music is more important. As it's called 'music'. While I'm listening to the song I always listen to music and listen to lyrics. I've always done that. But it can also depend. I think lyrics of "All You Need Is Love" or "Revolution" by The Beatles and "Imagine" and "Give Peace A Chance" by John Lennon are more important than music of the same songs. Like I said there is so much to talk about. But I still think that music is more important for me because that's what catches my ear the most - the melody, the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Sometimes Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I'm a writer, so a band with good lyrics scores a lot of points with me. I like clever lyrics that tell a story. With a band like Zep, though, the music is what attracted me. A lot of their lyrics are pretty repetitive from song to song, but they weren't trying to be The Beatles. The lyrics had to suit the music, which they did. Stairway is, imo, their biggest achievement lyrically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachman Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Words with no accompanying music or sung are just words, a poem if you will. You must have music or sing for the words to become a song/lyrics. Music stands alone and doesn't need lyrics to be that. The music is by far the most important element to me, the singing is part of this but doesn't have to have words. I have little tolerance for people who don't like "music" without lyrics. They don't seem to be able to hear the story within just the music, they must be told. totally agree.. like bron yr aur makes me cry on many occasion.. no lyrics.. swan song is an amazing instrumental as well and black mountain side which is from an old trad melody..makes you feel from the eastern side of the world.. and other bands as well do good with an instrumental.. but plant does help when he sings.. never dissapoints with voice or lyrics no matter wat people say.. dylan took lyrics too from traditional songs and i hate when plant is the only one blamed to have done it.. both are like poets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have got a horsey Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 As much as I know and love Zeppelin, and I know all their stuff, but I have to confess for 90% of Led Zep songs, I have no idea what the words are, I don't even know what Robert is singing half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 They're equally important. I would give music a SLIGHT edge. SLIGHT. Because I must say that Instrumentals are better than things that are only Vocals (poems ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Imo. it depends on the band, music, artist, etc. with zeppelin, the lyrics were not a critical thing, cause the music was so powerful. yet they had -stairway to heaven, one of the most read lyrics to any song in the us. If your talking about a roy harper, pj harvey, lou reed, then yeah the lyrics are important. but even with those artists, i have never memorized any lyrics, the music must carry the song. In regards to led zeppelin, i think plant has underrated himself on his lyrics with the things i've read, same with page at times. the talent, creativity and approach sort of shows where the musical talent is, because the ear is there, the concept and the vibes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachman Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Imo. it depends on the band, music, artist, etc. with zeppelin, the lyrics were not a critical thing, cause the music was so powerful. yet they had -stairway to heaven, one of the most read lyrics to any song in the us. If your talking about a roy harper, pj harvey, lou reed, then yeah the lyrics are important. but even with those artists, i have never memorized any lyrics, the music must carry the song. In regards to led zeppelin, i think plant has underrated himself on his lyrics with the things i've read, same with page at times. the talent, creativity and approach sort of shows where the musical talent is, because the ear is there, the concept and the vibes. yea i believe plants lyrics are drastically underrated.. sometimes you dont know what hes saying but at the same time.. i trust that it is something that helps me love the song more and robert always achieved that.,.. he always did a good job of complementing pages riffs.. and thats what a frontman should be able to do.. who other than robert could write stairway kashmir and achilles in a career.. the lyrics fit the music and the melody PERFECTLY.. noone could.. robert handled his weight lyrically unlike some people suggest. they got sued for his lyrics at times but usually they were just traditional which noone can claim.. and if he used someones lyrics all it was it to help him tell a story.. every song had an original lyric that made the song important and robert deserves credit for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 sometimes you dont know what hes saying but at the same time.. i trust that it is something that helps me love the song more and robert always achieved that.,.. Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Screw the lyrics, give me a good tune any day of the week. I'll admit that good lyrics help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms_zeppelin94 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 yea i believe plants lyrics are drastically underrated.. sometimes you dont know what hes saying but at the same time.. i trust that it is something that helps me love the song more and robert always achieved that.,.. he always did a good job of complementing pages riffs.. and thats what a frontman should be able to do.. who other than robert could write stairway kashmir and achilles in a career.. the lyrics fit the music and the melody PERFECTLY.. noone could.. robert handled his weight lyrically unlike some people suggest. they got sued for his lyrics at times but usually they were just traditional which noone can claim.. and if he used someones lyrics all it was it to help him tell a story.. every song had an original lyric that made the song important and robert deserves credit for that. Very well said I think this is kinda a touchy subject - for me anyways. As far as Zeppelin goes, the music does nothing less than touch my soul& but the lyrics have made me go places I probably wouldn't have normally: If not for Zep I wouldn't have gotten intresetd in mythology. The mystery surrounding their lyrics is addicting and is what draws many people to become Led Heads. On the other hand, if the music doesn't catch my attention, I'm not gonna stick around to listen to the lyrics. Then again, "Twas in the darkest depths of Mordor I met a girl so fair, but Gollum &the evil one crept up & slipped away with her." was a key catalyst in getting me hooked on Zep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Is it just me but I have always thought that men have always been more into pure instrumental/guitar leads than women? I just dont know why most women are into the singing end of it only? I can't speak for all women but I've always been a big fan of guitar leads and instrumentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Is it just me but I have always thought that men have always been more into pure instrumental/guitar leads than women? I just dont know why most women are into the singing end of it only? It's just you, YC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 In regards to the show in -07, it sort of sounds like it was more important for jason, jones and then page,plant, in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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