Aquamarine Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Has anyone thought to ask Prince whether he would be interested? Somehow I don't think he would be. Comes under the heading of "not a chance," I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla53 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Prince is an amazing singer, songwriter and guitar player. His live shows are quite something to experience. Hardly call him crap. I thought the article was great too, many true things said in there....'watch the visual interplay between Jones and Bonham while page is soloing (the bow). No other rock band has come close to equaling them in terms of power,originality and organic grooveness' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gina62 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 nice post allison,love prince ,but not with page, I think he could come up with a better fit maybe somebody totally new like plant was,theres lots of talent waiting to be discovered.!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punksandwich Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Inspired by a post I saw elsewhere, I've decided that Otis Williams, the only surviving Temptations singer, should join Led Zeppelin for a reunion. He's black and his song Ball of Confusion was a big hit, with psychedelic elements and it ROCKED. So here's the new name and the new album cover I created. How is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarmy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If Led Zeppelin has black roots, then they do not go all the way to Africa. Simply because blues doesn't come from Africa. Blues is an American Institution founded by those who may have had parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents from Africa. The writer assumes that people with black skin identify with Africa. I think that most blues writers and singers would identify with the US because that's where this music originated from. ... Yes, I'm feeling cranky today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 This is a great twist on this whole scenario and makes so much sense. Hopefully, someone will make Jimmy and JPJ aware of it. I think Prince is an unbelievable suggestion. I would kill to see that. That could be something really special. I saw in numerous interviews with Robert over the years and how big of a Prince fan he is. He referred to him once in an MTV interview around 1988 as the king, the best. I remember reading/hearing Robert was a big Prince fan. It would be quite something to hear him (Prince) and Jimmy jam together. Not too likely but fun to think about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_72 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Cool article. It would be a dream to see Prince on stage with them. I do remember Robert saying he was a big fan of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 If Led Zeppelin has black roots, then they do not go all the way to Africa. Simply because blues doesn't come from Africa. Blues is an American Institution founded by those who may have had parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents from Africa. The writer assumes that people with black skin identify with Africa. I think that most blues writers and singers would identify with the US because that's where this music originated from. ... Yes, I'm feeling cranky today. Blues is certainly an American art form, but it derives from African rhythms and melodies, especially those of North and West Africa. (A lot of the lyrics also come from West African folktales and rituals, having been passed down through the generations by the slaves' ancestors.) A lot of writers have written about this, and Robert has also talked about the connections between the blues and the music of Morocco, Mali, and so on. Sorry you're feeling cranky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dog Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is ridiculous, Page and Prince?? Yeah right, good in a dream, maybe. This whole article is silly. A jazz musician couldnt figure out some zep? uh, I dont think so. I think this whole forum is dead now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 The riffs and the rhythms of the original -led zeppelin were seemingly endless, cool article, but i guess its a different story these days. Whatever happens these days will be super limited it seems. still think it would have been cool if page, jones and jason went out on tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is ridiculous, Page and Prince?? Yeah right, good in a dream, maybe. This whole article is silly. A jazz musician couldnt figure out some zep? uh, I dont think so. I think this whole forum is dead now. Why? People found plenty to talk about on these forums and their predecessors for years when we just assumed there was never any chance of any of the band getting together again. The previous version of this particular forum focused on an inactive (for decades) band, but there was no lack of things to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDave Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I remember reading/hearing Robert was a big Prince fan. It would be quite something to hear him (Prince) and Jimmy jam together. Not too likely but fun to think about! That would be quite awesome. Well, we can at least dream about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyLane Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 It would be interesting to see Prince and Robert to something together in Minneapolis. Not sure if Robert could tolerate the -26 degrees but he would enjoy the summer months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutionBlues Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Very good article, thanks! "Few of them didn’t shake their heads when asked how they managed to be so funky, bluesy and so intensely rock ‘n’ roll at the same time." Sums it up for me, I love rock and Zeppelin takes rock way beyond the usual boring 4/4 stuff. Bonzo was a the lynchypin, but, he was following Page, and Jones was the floor. Great stuff. That Back in Black Article sux! I DO NOT want to see Jimmy's awesome playing under a crappy rap artist singer or Prince. Yucky, yucky, yucky..... I'm with you, LA Woman. Prince owes Zeppelin for alot, from stage clothes and androgyny to use of a symbol instead of his name. Don't see him as part of the crew, good as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tophat Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Led Zeppelin needs to come back in black Mark LeVine says at their core Led Zeppelin were a black band and need to look outside the ‘white rock ‘n’ roll box’ if they change their mind about not reforming Apparently, the dreams of millions of Led Zeppelin fans are now over. Only two days after raising hopes by ‘confirming’ that the remaining members - Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones and Jason Bonham - were planning to record and tour with a new singer (thankfully, under a new name), Jimmy Page’s manager Peter Mensch, declared that, ‘Led Zeppelin are over ... They tried out a few singers (to replace Plant), but no one worked out. That was it. The whole thing is completely over now. There are absolutely no plans for them to continue. Zero.’ I was lucky enough to see both the previous Zeppelin reunions; at Live Aid in 1985 and at the Atlantic Records 40th anniversary concert in 1988 and see band members numerous time on solo tours. So unlike some close friends, I did not spend $5000 to fly to London and get scalped tickets to the 02 show in December 2007. But that was only because I believed, like most everyone else I know in the music world, that they would make one last foray across the Atlantic as a band before, as Jimmy Page put it, they were so old they’d need ‘zimmer frames’ to get around the stage. The Zep world has been harshly divided about whether Robert Plant’s refusal to join a reunion album and tour was an act of supreme selfishness, or a legitimate decision by an artist in the middle of an amazing career renaissance, with bluegrass artist Alison Krauss. Greatest funk and blues rhythm section in the history of rock It wouldn’t be a Zeppelin reunion without Plant, and thankfully it seems that the other members had no intention of labeling it as such. But if the rumours about whom they were auditioning to replace him -rock screamers from Steven Tyler to Alter Bridge singer Myles Kennedy-are true, I fear that Jimmy, John, and Jason, may have been thinking so hard about recreating the rock part of their sound that they forgot who Zeppelin was at its musical core, and what they could have come back to the stage as: the greatest funk and blues rhythm section in the history of rock. Don’t believe me? Go listen to or watch ‘The Song Remains the Same’, without a doubt the most underrated, and in my mind, the best, live rock album ever recorded. Listen to solo section of ‘Dazed and Confused’ before and after the violin bow solo. There is a level of rhythmic complexity and funkiness that are simply astounding. (Watch the visual interplay between Jones and Bonham while Page is soloing. Their smiles say it all.) No other rock band has come close to equaling them in terms of power, originality and organic grooveness. Then listen to the song ‘The Song Remains the Same’ from the eponymous album/film, which to my mind are the most intense six-minutes of live performance in rock history. I remember playing the video of the song when it first came out to my guitar teacher, one of the premier jazz guitarists in the country, and even he couldn’t figure out what Page, Bonham and Jones were doing together. Or listen to the wah-wah section of Page’s solo on the original album version of ‘No Quarter’ (which unfortunately was replaced on the album reissue in favor of the less funky movie version of the song), or the funk groove behind the solo in ‘Over the Hills and Far Away’ (the version on ‘How The West Was Won’, which was recorded the year before, is actually funkier). Then listen to ‘Since I’ve Been Loving You’ off the movie or ‘The Song Remains the Same’ soundtrack reissue. Its power equals the greatest blues songs ever performed, but with far more complex harmonies and rhythms than most any song by B.B, Freddie or Albert King at their peak (not to mention that along with the live version of ‘Dazed and Confused’ from those 1973 concerts, it’s probably Plant’s most awe-inspiring vocal performance). And then, go watch Zeppelin play a completely reimagined version of ‘Whole Lotta Love’ at the 1980 Knebworth shows, which are thankfully available on the Led Zeppelin DVD released in 2003. I remember when they played the same inverted riff at the Atlantic Records reunion eight years later. Since almost no one at that show was lucky enough to have been at Knebworth there was complete pandemonium when the band, with 21 year old Jason Bonham sitting in for his dad for the first time, recreated the Knebworth version (the riff comes in at 3:07). What made this reworking so special was precisely that the groove was changed from a much straighter rock to a much more syncopated, funkier but still heavy riff, while Bonham’s drums hit new accents that weren’t possible to imagine in the original version. In a Madison Square Garden filled with 20000 musicians, nary a mouth was not completely agape when the new groove kicked in at the beginning of the second verse. Funk gets better with age The great funk, blues and jazz musicians have always known this about Zeppelin. At one of Zeppelin’s early festival shows, James Brown’s rhythm section reportedly watched stupefied as these long-haired white kids from England played the meanest funk imaginable, with John Bonham’s drums in particular blowing them away. I’ve been fortunate to meet or work with many well-known funk and blues artist, and invariably in discussions of music the subject would turn to Led Zeppelin. Few of them didn’t shake their heads when asked how they managed to be so funky, bluesy and so intensely rock ‘n’ roll at the same time. Indeed, songs like ‘The Crunge’, ‘Wanton Song’, ‘We’re Gonna Groove’, ‘The Rover’, and numerous other jams. Such as the never released Page-Bonham rehearsal that could have been on any James Brown album from 1967 through 1974 that often seemed to emerge spontaneously during their renown live shows are as funky as any track the Godfather, or his younger contemporaries like the Isley Brothers, the Ohio Players or Sly and the Family Stone, released in their heydays. There’s no wonder that Zeppelin is most likely the most sampled band in the history of hip-hop after James Brown. A good friend of mine who was one of the main engineers in the NYC hip-hop scene of the late 1980s and 1990s once confided in me that upwards of half the tracks he was involved with were created (often without credit, admittedly) by sampling some part of a Zeppelin groove. All of which leads me to believe that if it is true that they only auditioned rock singers, the three Js needlessly limited their horizons. It doesn’t surprise me that ‘it didn’t work out’, if that’s who they were looking at. At this stage in their careers, trying to recapture the sonic - and especially vocal thunder - of the band’s glory years, should not be their only option. Instead, the three Js should have focused on recapturing the harsh funkiness and bluesiness that were the foundation upon which the ‘Hammer of the Gods’ sound was built. Funk, even more than rock, gets better with age. Indeed, while some have criticised the pairing of Page and Leona Lewis at the closing ceremony for the Beijing Olympics, I would argue that, as has so often happened in his career, Page was ahead of the musical curve - in this case of his own band. If they focused on their roots as a funk-rock-Motown rhythm section rather than being simply a rock band in search of a lead vocalist, a whole new universe of singers would be open to them: R&B greats D’Angelo or Mary J Blige. Macy Gray or Alicia Keyes (or just go to the source and get Chaka Khan). Fishbone singer Angelo More. Living Colour frontman Cory Glover (and why not bring in Vernon Reid to recapture that great but fleeting Yardbirds Jimmy Page-Jeff Beck era). What about Joe Cocker, whose first album the original Zep rhythm section so famously played on before recording Led Zeppelin I? What about Lenny Kravitz? What about Prince, perhaps the only musician in rock history who could give Zeppelin a run for its money in terms of combining hard funk and heavy rock in the same song? Why not put together a funk-rock-blues-and more collective with a bunch of their favorite musicians and friends, and take that on the road? And Plant’s not the only one who can do bluegrass; John Paul Jones has been a serious student of the genre for years, and Page’s roots in finger-picking go back long before Zeppelin’s birth, to his years as the most sought after session guitarist in London. Jack White and the Edge? You can have them. Give me Page together on stage with Buddy Guy, although I’m not sure that Buddy could pull off such a big tour anymore. But at least for a song or two on a new record or a couple of jams on stage? And if you’re not convinced of Page’s blues credentials, go find his 1965 recordings with blues great Sonny Boy Williamson (released in 1972 under the title ‘Special Early Works’) and listen to ‘It’s a Bloody Life’, one of the meanest blues recordings ever made. Back in black What I’m arguing is that ultimately and at their core Led Zeppelin were a black band. They were not merely white musicians who knew how to play blues (see Eric Clapton, Duane Allman, Michael Bloomfield, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Peter Green for the best exponents of ‘white blues’). I have no idea how or why it happened, but when they played, they were, deep in their souls, black. Perhaps the only other collection of white musicians who this could be said about was The Dapps, a white rhythm section from Cincinnati discovered by James Brown, and who, amazingly, were the main rhythm section for a few of his most amazing funk jams of the late 1960s and early 1970s (see here and here) What I am sure about is that more than any other rock band before or since (with the exception of Jimi Hendrix, with whom the band tragically never got the chance to work), Zeppelin’s musical roots lie deep in the soil of Africa. That’s why the music of Morocco, especially that of the Gnawa or former slaves, has so inspired Page and Plant during their careers. Even the folk and Celtic influences that dominate their acoustic repertoire can be traced back to the Gypsy melodies and energies that also made its way into Africa with the arrival of the Arabs and Islam 1400 years ago. So Jimmy, John and Jason, if you’re still trying to figure out a way to play together, feel free to consider my humble and unsolicited advice: think outside the white rock ‘n’ roll box and hark back to your roots in black music, to the juke box music you all grew up playing along to, and I’m sure you’ll find a host of amazing singers just dying to work with you. Including, somewhere down the road, a curly-haired guy from the West Midlands whose current travels into the heart of bluegrass could well lead him back across the Atlantic to the continent where it all began. link Long post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllisonAdler Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Long post! Ehhm, and you thought reposting it with that comment was useful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazz Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The funk thing has always been a huge part of Zeppelin for me. Take that away an your left with any old heavy rock band...ih. Doesnt get any funkier than Trampled Underfoot! And that's what was missing from the O2 gig....you just cannot replace the mighty Bonzo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Oddly enough, in the latest edition of Atlantic magazine there are two articles that mention Led Zeppelin, one on the decline of "white" culture in the US, and one on Michelle Obama and growing up black in America. In both articles the authors cite LZ as the epitome of "white" music. I want to respond, although I'm sure my letter would never be published. Obviously these people have no clue as to Led Zeppelin's roots in the blues and the way they were influenced by and incorporated non-Western musical forms in their music. I guess my only consolation is that even people who know nothing about modern music recognise the name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpat Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Led Zeppelin needs to come back in black Mark LeVine says at their core Led Zeppelin were a black band and need to look outside the ‘white rock ‘n’ roll box’ if they change their mind about not reforming link YES! YES!! I always knew what Zeppelin was for: To be a HARD FUNK ROCK BAND!! Funk as in James Brown, et. al. Examples of Zeppelinized Funk: The ending of How Many More Times The ending of What Is and What Should Never Be The quiet, "lemon squeezer" part of The Lemon Song Heartbreaker The rock part of Bring It On Home Celebration Day Misty Mountain Hop The Crunge (okay, obvious...) The Ocean (one of their best!!) Houses of the Holy Custard Pie Trampled Underfoot (AKA "Hats off to (Stevie) Wonder" -- ha ha) Wanton Song For Your Life Royal Orleans Hots On For Nowhere Carouselambra (last section) Darlene Seems like FUNK was a big part of Zep's overall sound. Great article. Spot on. The missing key ingredient to THE FUNK is John "Bonzo" Bonham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 YES! YES!! I always knew what Zeppelin was for: To be a HARD FUNK ROCK BAND!! Funk as in James Brown, et. al. Examples of Zeppelinized Funk: The ending of How Many More Times The ending of What Is and What Should Never Be The quiet, "lemon squeezer" part of The Lemon Song Heartbreaker The rock part of Bring It On Home Celebration Day Misty Mountain Hop The Crunge (okay, obvious...) The Ocean (one of their best!!) Houses of the Holy Custard Pie Trampled Underfoot (AKA "Hats off to (Stevie) Wonder" -- ha ha) Wanton Song For Your Life Royal Orleans Hots On For Nowhere Carouselambra (last section) Darlene Seems like FUNK was a big part of Zep's overall sound. Great article. Spot on. The missing key ingredient to THE FUNK is John "Bonzo" Bonham Let's not forget Zeppelins exursion's into funk during their live shows of which there are endless examples of: Whole Lotta Love, Dazed & Confused, Communication Breakdown spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 YES! YES!!YES!!! Thank you Alison for posting this article. While I didn't agree with all his points, he did get to the crux of the matter, which is that Led Zeppelin, of all the hard rock/metal groups, was the funkiest of the bunch, which is one of many reasons why they stood out from the pack. But while I do think the remaining members need to think outside-the-box, it is no small point to mention that a significant measure of Zepp's funk came from the nimble hands and feet(especially that glorious right foot of his!) of Bonzo. And while Jason, from all acounts, acquitted himself nicely at the 2007 O2 gig, I don't know that he possesses his father's uncanny sense of beats, timing, and just plain BADASS FUNK! Just listen to those amazing funky workouts in the "Dazed & Confused" jam from the late 1971 shows, which would incorporate the "Theme from Shaft"...or any of the Communication Breakdowns that built the funky jam on the Isley Brothers "It's Your Thing" riff. That speaks of a band, who not only had the technique, but also the open mind and ears to take in music from all walks of life. This is a flaw in so many of the hard rock/metal bands that came in Zeppelin's wake: they just listened to Zep, Sabbath, Deep Purple, Aerosmith or whatever and so missed out on the Motown/Stax/James Brown influence on Zeppelin's sound. If you've listened to any number of Zeppelin's live shows, you know how with the flick of a wrist and a hammer of the right foot, Bonzo could change the groove of a song on a dime...he had a seemingly unlimited store of grooves in his head. Does Jason Bonham have that ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 That Back in Black Article sux! I DO NOT want to see Jimmy's awesome playing under a crappy rap artist singer or Prince. Yucky, yucky, yucky..... Here's a quarter... ...buy yourself a clue. Prince is definitely NOT "yucky". And not all rappers are "crappy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Here's a quarter... ...buy yourself a clue. Prince is definitely NOT "yucky". And not all rappers are "crappy". Indeed. Prince is amazing and no, not every rapper is crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I was at his post-Oscar bash last Sunday at the Avalon Palace...the man can still bring it...singing, guitar-shredding, dancing, cool funky jams, the works! Better Prince than Steven Tyler, Miles Kennedy, Scott Weiland or any other bozo I've seen mentioned as a possible singer for Page and Jones and Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I was at his post-Oscar bash last Sunday at the Avalon Palace...the man can still bring it...singing, guitar-shredding, dancing, cool funky jams, the works! Better Prince than Steven Tyler, Miles Kennedy, Scott Weiland or any other bozo I've seen mentioned as a possible singer for Page and Jones and Jason. I saw Prince in concert about 3 years ago and he was incredible. Fantastic show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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