Economic Stimulus?

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

Article by Andrew Taylor, Associated Press

"They call it 'stimulus' legislation, but the measures racing through Congress would devote tens of billions of dollars to causes that have little to do with jolting the country out of recession."

Included in the $800 billion plus package:

$345 million for Agriculture Dept. computers

$650 million for TV converter boxes

$15 billion for college scholarships

$1 billion to deal with census problems

$88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building

$2.1 billion to pay off a looming shortfall in public housing accounts

$870 million to combat the flu

$400 million to help prevent the spread of STD's, including HIV

$380 million for a rainy day fund for WIC program (they also got $1billion last fall)

$40 million to convert the way health statistics are collected

"At the same time, putting these items in the stimulus bill that really should be handled in annual appropriations bills creates more room in the latter for pet projects and other programs."

This just enables them to spend even more!

I think that this is OUTRAGEOUS!

"Part of the reason so much non-stimulus spending has made it into the stimulus bill is that there are only so many traditional jobs-heavy public works projects that can get started quickly. As it is most of the money in the bill for road building, water projects and mass transit probably won't be spent until the economy has turned around and is back on a recovery path.."

"Defenders of the package said that once that experts determined it would take $800 billion to start to pull the country out of recession and emphasized the urgency, details took on less importance."

I pay alot of taxes. I AM SICK OF MY HARD EARNED MONEY BEING WASTED LIKE THIS!

Edited to say that its not that I don't think that the above projects are not worthwhile and some are a benefit to society. Just that I don't think that they should be in the stimulus bill. Also, there is so much waste in there, and what they are using the stimulus money for will not benefit the economy. So why spend the extra $800 billion? And by not putting them in the appropriation bill means that they are going to dream up other wasteful projects to spend our hard earned tax dollars on.

Edited January 31, 2009 by BUCK'EYE' DOC

[redrum]

So my question is:

If you were handed $7,000 right now, what would you do with it?

Give it back to the people? I hear a big horse laugh off in the distance.

But I'd fix my truck and buy that Roland machine that records directly to CD.

[euro]

The money would alleviate quite chunk of stress on individuals. With what some people owe 7,000 wouldn't do much, but it make a decent dent for most people.

When the government "gives" its citizens money that itself has borrowed, it merely shifts the debt burden to future generations.

[kirchzep27]

I saw this show on pbs last night called -now. they had this financial person on, that said atleast with -bernie maddoff there is a complete situation there. she said that with the folks on wall st., the banks and the mortgage cos., that there are so many villains with the hand of the wheel that drove this economy off the cliff that there is no way to find out what happened and probably no criminal wrongdoings, just really unethical decisions.

[TypeO]

I saw this show on pbs last night called -now. they had this financial person on, that said atleast with -bernie maddoff there is a complete situation there. she said that with the folks on wall st., the banks and the mortgage cos., that there are so many villains with the hand of the wheel that drove this economy off the cliff that there is no way to find out what happened and probably no criminal wrongdoings, just really unethical decisions.

It's hardly the Bernie Madoffs that brought our economy to it's knees. Not that he's not a criminal. But he's just like many others who are ethically bankrupt. But the lion's share of blame for the crisis we currently face is the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the subsequent bailout of same.

Contrary to DemocRATic claims that Bush and the Republicans opposed increased oversight over Fannie/Freddie, it was just the opposite. As early as 2001, the Bush administration began raising questions regarding Fannie/Freddie, increasing in urgency with each review. Meanwhile, Barney Frank and Charles Schumer pooh-poohed the idea of impending doom.

McCain should have had that video clip beginning at 2:56 as his ONLY ad for the last 6 weeks of his campaign.

Along with the footnote that "Senator Obama did not weigh in on that bill."

Barney Frank, Sept. 10, 2003: "The more people in my judgment exaggerate the threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the treasury, which i do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disaster scenarios. Even if there were a problem, the federal government does not bail them out. But the more pressure there is, the less we see in terms of affordable housing."

As Bill O'Reilly revealed, as late as July 08 Barney Frank was still covering up what, by that time, had to be undeniable evidence of an imminent collapse.

wow.

just wow.

meh, it's from Fox news, it MUST be a lie.

[kirchzep27]

I didnt say that -bernie maddoff brought our economy to its knees. but i will say, wow, just wow! i dont know anything about steering a big ship, but i do know that you have to really know what your doing and steer it in big 8 mile turns or something like that...with the economy.

[TypeO]

I didnt say that -bernie maddoff brought our economy to its knees. but i will say, wow, just wow! i dont know anything about steering a big ship, but i do know that you have to really know what your doing and steer it in big 8 mile turns or something like that...with the economy.

absolutely, and I wasn't implying that's what you meant, that it was just Madoff.

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Type-O,not at all,Mr. Frank is a,POS.Always has been, always will be and does not know a damn(excuse me) thing about finance.As Chairman,and as overseer of his 'committee',ya know the officials looking out for us,....

KB

[ninelives]

I'd put it away for emergencies that may arise down the road.

[kirchzep27]

absolutely, and I wasn't implying that's what you meant, that it was just Madoff.

Alright, was just reading your post and responding in a overview. i think its really that so many opinions vary on tv. you have live stuff off wall st. and there is this distrust and...disgust...at this point, so its all messed up.

[Dzldoc]

While this is bears striking similarities to what is going on country wide, the difference is state, and the amount of money being handed out.

You are talking about a state issue, when this situation would affect every tax payer.

I had to check to see if we were reading the same article, either you didn't read it or you didn't understand it.

Though it's for state projects it is funded by Federal Tax Payer Dollars.

Louisiana asks feds to extend post-disaster housing aid

by Becky Bohrer, Associated Press Thursday January 29, 2009, 11:42 AM

The state wants federal housing benefits extended another year for victims of the 2005 hurricanes, citing a lack of affordable housing in the New Orleans area.

http://' target="_blank">The Bush administration this month denied a request to extend the disaster housing assistance through 2011, saying Congress had approved $85 million for rental assistance for families that otherwise would have been displaced when the program ends March 1 and that the state had received additional federal aid to help build more affordable housing in the region.

The denial letter from the Federal Emergency Management Agency and U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development noted that about $500 million had been spent so far helping families in the disaster housing program, including with case management meant to assess families' needs and gauge their progress toward self-sufficiency.

Louisiana's hurricane recovery chief, Paul Rainwater, in letters this week to the two departments now part of the Obama administration, scaled back his request to a one-year extension. He said the voucher program, for which Congress appropriated the $85 million, would still leave about 7,000 families in need after disaster benefits are scheduled to end.

Fair-market rent in the New Orleans area is 69 percent higher than before Katrina, putting housing out of reach for the "average renter" in the region, he said.

FEMA had been willing to pay up to 120 percent of fair-market rent -- or $1,188 for a two-bedroom apartment in New Orleans -- under the program. There are concerns, particularly among housing advocates, that many families won't be able to afford that on their own and that ending the program will lead to more homelessness. FEMA maintains it has tried to match as closely as possible families with places in their price range.

"You don't want to put people in situations where it's going to cause a hardship down the road," FEMA spokesman Andrew Thomas said Thursday.

The state's revamping rules of the program to help small-scale landlords more quickly fix rental units and get them on the market. The program, which had been reimbursement-based, had been criticized for being too slow and not making a meaningful dent in the region's need for affordable rentals.

Rainwater said another year would allow for more time to get affordable units online.

End article.-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The state part of the program is funded by CDBG federal funds.

Community Disaster Block Grants.

I would like to give you 3 scenarios of how the "Road Home Program" was handled.

Though I don't have exact figures in front of me they are an example of the debacle

of how the Federal Government handles our money. The figures are rounded for easier comparison.

Scenario #1 Homeowner has $128,000.00 in Damages from hurricane Katrina.

He receives a check from the insurance co. and goes to his bank and pays off the mortgage. Then he borrows the money from the SBA at 2.9% for 30 years to make the actual repairs, in essence he refinances his mortgage at 2.9%

Then he receives $115,000.00 from the "Road Home Program" and installs a new in ground swimming pool and buys a new engine for his boat.

Other monies he received are unsubstantiated but when I give my scenario it might give you further insight.

Scenario #2 Homeowner has no flooding and minimal damages to roof in which insurance pays for the repairs.

He receives from the "Road Home Program" $90,000.00 pays off his mortgage, his one year old truck note and takes a two week trip to Europe.

Scenario #3 My situation.

Had minimal wind damage. FEMA estimates my damages at $58,000.00 in flood damage.

2 months after the storm an adjuster from the Federal Flood Insurance Program finally shows up to access the damages.

In February of 2006 I get a letter from them that says "NO" evidence of flooding. WTF?

To make a long story short after fighting with them, in July of 2007 nearly 2 years since the storm they sent me a check for $14,000.00 FEMA had given me $3,800.00 From the "Road Home Program I received $11,000.00 and a Union/Employee funded disaster relief fund I received $14,000.00 and I think we received a food voucher from Red Cross for

$900.00.

Added all up I was $14,000.00 in the hole. My point is that I wouldn't have applied for any assistance if my "Mandatory Flood Insurance" would have paid what they were supposed to, isn't that what insurance is for?

So the only thing I could do was purchase the materials and tools and repair the house myself.

So this is why I don't want the "Government" handling our money.

[electricmage]

I had to check to see if we were reading the same article, either you didn't read it or you didn't understand it.

Though it's for state projects it is funded by Federal Tax Payer Dollars.

Louisiana asks feds to extend post-disaster housing aid

by Becky Bohrer, Associated Press Thursday January 29, 2009, 11:42 AM

The state wants federal housing benefits extended another year for victims of the 2005 hurricanes, citing a lack of affordable housing in the New Orleans area.

<a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>The Bush administration this month denied a request to extend the disaster housing assistance through 2011, saying Congress had approved $85 million for rental assistance for families that otherwise would have been displaced when the program ends March 1 and that the state had received additional federal aid to help build more affordable housing in the region.

The denial letter from the Federal Emergency Management Agency and U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development noted that about $500 million had been spent so far helping families in the disaster housing program, including with case management meant to assess families' needs and gauge their progress toward self-sufficiency.

Louisiana's hurricane recovery chief, Paul Rainwater, in letters this week to the two departments now part of the Obama administration, scaled back his request to a one-year extension. He said the voucher program, for which Congress appropriated the $85 million, would still leave about 7,000 families in need after disaster benefits are scheduled to end.

Fair-market rent in the New Orleans area is 69 percent higher than before Katrina, putting housing out of reach for the "average renter" in the region, he said.

FEMA had been willing to pay up to 120 percent of fair-market rent -- or $1,188 for a two-bedroom apartment in New Orleans -- under the program. There are concerns, particularly among housing advocates, that many families won't be able to afford that on their own and that ending the program will lead to more homelessness. FEMA maintains it has tried to match as closely as possible families with places in their price range.

"You don't want to put people in situations where it's going to cause a hardship down the road," FEMA spokesman Andrew Thomas said Thursday.

The state's revamping rules of the program to help small-scale landlords more quickly fix rental units and get them on the market. The program, which had been reimbursement-based, had been criticized for being too slow and not making a meaningful dent in the region's need for affordable rentals.

Rainwater said another year would allow for more time to get affordable units online.

End article.-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The state part of the program is funded by CDBG federal funds.

Community Disaster Block Grants.

I would like to give you 3 scenarios of how the "Road Home Program" was handled.

Though I don't have exact figures in front of me they are an example of the debacle

of how the Federal Government handles our money. The figures are rounded for easier comparison.

Scenario #1 Homeowner has $128,000.00 in Damages from hurricane Katrina.

He receives a check from the insurance co. and goes to his bank and pays off the mortgage. Then he borrows the money from the SBA at 2.9% for 30 years to make the actual repairs, in essence he refinances his mortgage at 2.9%

Then he receives $115,000.00 from the "Road Home Program" and installs a new in ground swimming pool and buys a new engine for his boat.

Other monies he received are unsubstantiated but when I give my scenario it might give you further insight.

Scenario #2 Homeowner has no flooding and minimal damages to roof in which insurance pays for the repairs.

He receives from the "Road Home Program" $90,000.00 pays off his mortgage, his one year old truck note and takes a two week trip to Europe.

Scenario #3 My situation.

Had minimal wind damage. FEMA estimates my damages at $58,000.00 in flood damage.

2 months after the storm an adjuster from the Federal Flood Insurance Program finally shows up to access the damages.

In February of 2006 I get a letter from them that says "NO" evidence of flooding. WTF?

To make a long story short after fighting with them, in July of 2007 nearly 2 years since the storm they sent me a check for $14,000.00 FEMA had given me $3,800.00 From the "Road Home Program I received $11,000.00 and a Union/Employee funded disaster relief fund I received $14,000.00 and I think we received a food voucher from Red Cross for

$900.00.

Added all up I was $14,000.00 in the hole. My point is that I wouldn't have applied for any assistance if my "Mandatory Flood Insurance" would have paid what they were supposed to, isn't that what insurance is for?

So the only thing I could do was purchase the materials and tools and repair the house myself.

So this is why I don't want the "Government" handling our money.

I gave it a quick glance. I'll re-read it and your last post tomorrow.

[Pb Derigable]

I had to check to see if we were reading the same article, either you didn't read it or you didn't understand it.

Though it's for state projects it is funded by Federal Tax Payer Dollars.

Louisiana asks feds to extend post-disaster housing aid

by Becky Bohrer, Associated Press Thursday January 29, 2009, 11:42 AM

The state wants federal housing benefits extended another year for victims of the 2005 hurricanes, citing a lack of affordable housing in the New Orleans area.

<a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>The Bush administration this month denied a request to extend the disaster housing assistance through 2011, saying Congress had approved $85 million for rental assistance for families that otherwise would have been displaced when the program ends March 1 and that the state had received additional federal aid to help build more affordable housing in the region.

The denial letter from the Federal Emergency Management Agency and U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development noted that about $500 million had been spent so far helping families in the disaster housing program, including with case management meant to assess families' needs and gauge their progress toward self-sufficiency.

Louisiana's hurricane recovery chief, Paul Rainwater, in letters this week to the two departments now part of the Obama administration, scaled back his request to a one-year extension. He said the voucher program, for which Congress appropriated the $85 million, would still leave about 7,000 families in need after disaster benefits are scheduled to end.

Fair-market rent in the New Orleans area is 69 percent higher than before Katrina, putting housing out of reach for the "average renter" in the region, he said.

FEMA had been willing to pay up to 120 percent of fair-market rent -- or $1,188 for a two-bedroom apartment in New Orleans -- under the program. There are concerns, particularly among housing advocates, that many families won't be able to afford that on their own and that ending the program will lead to more homelessness. FEMA maintains it has tried to match as closely as possible families with places in their price range.

"You don't want to put people in situations where it's going to cause a hardship down the road," FEMA spokesman Andrew Thomas said Thursday.

The state's revamping rules of the program to help small-scale landlords more quickly fix rental units and get them on the market. The program, which had been reimbursement-based, had been criticized for being too slow and not making a meaningful dent in the region's need for affordable rentals.

Rainwater said another year would allow for more time to get affordable units online.

End article.-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The state part of the program is funded by CDBG federal funds.

Community Disaster Block Grants.

I would like to give you 3 scenarios of how the "Road Home Program" was handled.

Though I don't have exact figures in front of me they are an example of the debacle

of how the Federal Government handles our money. The figures are rounded for easier comparison.

Scenario #1 Homeowner has $128,000.00 in Damages from hurricane Katrina.

He receives a check from the insurance co. and goes to his bank and pays off the mortgage. Then he borrows the money from the SBA at 2.9% for 30 years to make the actual repairs, in essence he refinances his mortgage at 2.9%

Then he receives $115,000.00 from the "Road Home Program" and installs a new in ground swimming pool and buys a new engine for his boat.

Other monies he received are unsubstantiated but when I give my scenario it might give you further insight.

Scenario #2 Homeowner has no flooding and minimal damages to roof in which insurance pays for the repairs.

He receives from the "Road Home Program" $90,000.00 pays off his mortgage, his one year old truck note and takes a two week trip to Europe.

Scenario #3 My situation.

Had minimal wind damage. FEMA estimates my damages at $58,000.00 in flood damage.

2 months after the storm an adjuster from the Federal Flood Insurance Program finally shows up to access the damages.

In February of 2006 I get a letter from them that says "NO" evidence of flooding. WTF?

To make a long story short after fighting with them, in July of 2007 nearly 2 years since the storm they sent me a check for $14,000.00 FEMA had given me $3,800.00 From the "Road Home Program I received $11,000.00 and a Union/Employee funded disaster relief fund I received $14,000.00 and I think we received a food voucher from Red Cross for

$900.00.

Added all up I was $14,000.00 in the hole. My point is that I wouldn't have applied for any assistance if my "Mandatory Flood Insurance" would have paid what they were supposed to, isn't that what insurance is for?

So the only thing I could do was purchase the materials and tools and repair the house myself.

So this is why I don't want the "Government" handling our money.

This is why Pres. Bush did not send the 3rd mountain Division in right after Katrina hit. these fucking states should have handle their shit better and what do you get when the feds come in. A fucking nightmare of epic proportions.

[alwizard03]

I would put it as a down payment on a New Harley or just buy lots of Bullets before the Ban.

[euro]

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

Sometimes it is how people remember hsitory that ensures it is repeated

[euro]

I'd put it away for emergencies that may arise down the road.

Better still buy gold or silver with it before the USA dollar collapses under the piles of debt and a trade war with the rest of the world.

I can hear the printing presses ramping up already

[cryingbluerain]

How come Dems don't like paying their taxes but they want to raise every one else's taxes?

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE51121W20090202

[manderlyh]

I'd put it away for emergencies that may arise down the road.

I think you've got something quite smart there, Niner.

Realistically, I would get some work done on my car and then put the rest away. We have some things in our house that need to be replaced, like our furnace, air conditioner, water heater, and the windows, but right now really isn't the time to invest in that. Not when I barely owe less on my mortgage than we borrowed...

[kirchzep27]

It should have never happened to begin with, with computers and smart people.

As i was talking to my friends this weekend...."just do your job" thats it. All we have to do is just do our job and live our lives.

[cryingbluerain]

"A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe and guarantee a longer recession" - Obama

The triumph of hope over fear..

[marolyn]

The triumph of hope over fear..

just reaching across the aisle by speaking your language...

[TypeO]

Yessir, if all those people don't get digital converter coupons our economy may never recover.

Pork you can believe in.

Any idea what a waste of money delaying the switch to digital is?

All those companies have been gearing up for the process and now 2 weeks out they delay it.

Massive costs involved in putting a process like that on hold.

It's not exactly just flipping a switch.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

I just hope we get out of the recession and get back on track paying off China for the war, help people get jobs, etc.

Edited February 6, 2009 by JimmyPageZoSo56

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

Article by Andrew Taylor, Associated Press

"They call it 'stimulus' legislation, but the measures racing through Congress would devote tens of billions of dollars to causes that have little to do with jolting the country out of recession."

Included in the $800 billion plus package:

$345 million for Agriculture Dept. computers

$650 million for TV converter boxes

$15 billion for college scholarships

$1 billion to deal with census problems

$88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building

$2.1 billion to pay off a looming shortfall in public housing accounts

$870 million to combat the flu

$400 million to help prevent the spread of STD's, including HIV

$380 million for a rainy day fund for WIC program (they also got $1billion last fall)

$40 million to convert the way health statistics are collected

"At the same time, putting these items in the stimulus bill that really should be handled in annual appropriations bills creates more room in the latter for pet projects and other programs."

This just enables them to spend even more!

I think that this is OUTRAGEOUS!

"Part of the reason so much non-stimulus spending has made it into the stimulus bill is that there are only so many traditional jobs-heavy public works projects that can get started quickly. As it is most of the money in the bill for road building, water projects and mass transit probably won't be spent until the economy has turned around and is back on a recovery path.."

"Defenders of the package said that once that experts determined it would take $800 billion to start to pull the country out of recession and emphasized the urgency, details took on less importance."

I pay alot of taxes. I AM SICK OF MY HARD EARNED MONEY BEING WASTED LIKE THIS!

Edited to say that its not that I don't think that the above projects are not worthwhile and some are a benefit to society. Just that I don't think that they should be in the stimulus bill. Also, there is so much waste in there, and what they are using the stimulus money for will not benefit the economy. So why spend the extra $800 billion? And by not putting them in the appropriation bill means that they are going to dream up other wasteful projects to spend our hard earned tax dollars on.

Oh and what Bush did wasn't bad? Begging Congress to give him money to bail out the banks that screwed people over? Your hard earned money went to banks not getting back on track but their spa expenses.

Edited February 6, 2009 by JimmyPageZoSo56

[PennyLane]

Besides the $84M in bonuses paid to Wall Street in December. Wall Street should payback the monies plus interest to the gov't from the monies received under the Bush Administration.