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Something Spats said irked me, among many, many other things. He said he didn't want a woman who expected him to buy the engagement ring and get down on one knee and propose.

I'm sorry, but I'm very old-fashioned in that respect and I think a lot of women are as well. I want the guy to buy the ring (after subtly collecting hints on what I might be looking for in a ring) and get down on one knee.

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Something Spats said irked me, among many, many other things. He said he didn't want a woman who expected him to buy the engagement ring and get down on one knee and propose.

I'm sorry, but I'm very old-fashioned in that respect and I think a lot of women are as well. I want the guy to buy the ring (after subtly collecting hints on what I might be looking for in a ring) and get down on one knee.

Well, clearly you're not a "cool" girl. Jeez, get into the 21st century. Modern women want guys who go to movies with them...and that's it. No door opening, no flowers, no engagement rings, no oral sex, no going to weddings or doing anything important to you. Get with the times Elizabeth...sheesh.

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Something Spats said irked me, among many, many other things. He said he didn't want a woman who expected him to buy the engagement ring and get down on one knee and propose.

I'm sorry, but I'm very old-fashioned in that respect and I think a lot of women are as well. I want the guy to buy the ring (after subtly collecting hints on what I might be looking for in a ring) and get down on one knee.

I hope that happens for you then.

I didn't (and don't) care about that aspect of things all that much. When I got engaged, WE picked out the ring.

Well, clearly you're not a "cool" girl. Jeez, get into the 21st century. Modern women want guys who go to movies with them...and that's it. No door opening, no flowers, no engagement rings, no oral sex, no going to weddings or doing anything important to you. Get with the times Elizabeth...sheesh.

I certainly enjoyed it when he would surprise me with some flowers, and some of the other things we'd do. I've never "expected" the guy to always open the door for me, but sometimes it's nice... and appropriate. But then, I'll hold doors for others as well. I think good manners goes both ways, and door holding is simply being courteous.

Around here, guys often hold the door for women, and when they do that for me, I always say 'thank you' which seems to surprise some of them... but I digress...

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Opening doors and all that are simply nice things to do, spats.

They require very little of you, and they show that you care.

Why make such a huge friggin deal over it, for cryin out loud? :rolleyes:

Fwiw,.. your attitude makes you come across like this (to me):

"I'm not gonna do it! I'm not! I'm not! I'm not! And you can't make me! tantrum.gifbaby_boy.gif "

I wouldn't doubt it if thats how you come across to women too. Is that really what you want?

Maybe some day you'll discover that there's joy to found in opening doors for your beloved.. and in buying her flowers, and taking her out to dinner,.. and all that. Maybe some day you'll realize that opening doors for your beloved is not a burden, its actually a privilege.. and you can make it a lovingly-offered gesture of affection.

And just so you know,.. you're not fooling anyone. Its quite obvious that your "I don't like old fashioned" excuse is just that.. an excuse.. a tired, stale, going-nowhere hamster-wheel of an excuse. And your denial of being afraid is just that.. a self-deluding denial. If you're ever gonna make any progress in the arena of relationships, at some point you'll need to face up to the fact that you are afraid.

You're afraid of failure.

You're afraid of rejection.

You're afraid of the feelings that come along failure and rejection. You know,.. the self-doubt and self-loathing.. the feeling of being deeply flawed and unloveable.. the hopelessness and despair. All that emotional stuff. You're not alone in having those feelings. Its deep, dark stuff, and thats why people avoid acknowledging it, let alone actually looking directly at it and actually delving into it. People avoid it at almost at all cost. But it doesn't have to be that way.

The good news is that rejection (and other feelings that come along with rejection) can't kill you. Rejection hurts (emotionally), but it can't actually harm you. You can survive it, and you can move forward.. again, and again, and again. Eventually you'll approach someone who won't immediately reject you. Maybe she'll recognize your sensitivity and will give getting to know you a chance. But one thing is for sure: if you don't ever try, you won't ever succeed. And if you plan on waiting for the right girl to approach you, you might as well plan on waiting a long time. Insecurity is not going to draw anyone to you. Its a simple fact that you're gonna have to learn to get comfortable with yourself.. with who you are.. flaws and all.. before you can expect anyone else might feel spontaneously drawn to you. A general acceptance of oneself.. flaws/quirks and all.. is attractive; insecurity is not.

If you're talking to some girl and you launch into some tirade about how she better not expect you to ever open doors for her, or buy her flowers, or take her out to dinner.. then you might as well not even bother to start the conversation. Even modern, independent women enjoy those things. You might wanna rethink your perspective.. develop some flexibility.. and remind yourself that its a privilege to have someone that you can show your affection to in those myriad small and simple ways.

I've been teasing you aplenty throughout this thread, but I've also been offering up sincere input, feedback, and suggestions. I reiterate what I think would be the most helpful thing you can do for yourself: go see a therapist and start working on these issues.

the%20doctor%20is%20in.jpg

Good luck, dog. erm,.. bud. ;) / ^_^

:hippy:

[fyi, I'm not actually suggesting you see a psychiatrist,but rather a therapist/counselor. ;) ]

Opening doors, giving flowers yadda, yadda, i guess is alright if the guy really wants to do it. And if he is getting lots in return. But he should not have to. And if the woman expects it she just isn't cool. She thinks she's a princess.

I seriously am not into old fashioned women. At all. That is not an excuse. Being old fashioned is just an excuse to let the man do everything and cater to the woman.

Yes i know the horrible feelings of being rejected by pretty girls. With a few exceptions that's what i experienced through my teen years. Rejection does not kill you but it does leave scars that stay with you. Nothing positive comes from rejection. There is no upside to it. You are being told you are not wanted or attractive. You can't just brush that stuff off and forget about. Especially if it happened a lot. If it happened just once that's fine but when a bunch of pretty women find you unattractive and maybe 1 or two find you attractive then that pretty much sums it up. You are not doing good. And you don't feel good.

I don't think i will ever accept and like my flaws and imperfections because they have been responsible for my failures.

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Spats comes on in the mid to late afternoon every day. Right now he's at a club with his buddies, trying to scope out a hottie.

It was a late night. There were some hotties out. But none approached and there wasn't really the opportunity to give my number out to anyone.

The worst part of the night was my buddy thelling me he apologized to the New Years girl for my behavior. :o:o:o he is still annoyed at me for that. I just start questioning his friendship.

Edited by spats
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Something Spats said irked me, among many, many other things. He said he didn't want a woman who expected him to buy the engagement ring and get down on one knee and propose.

I'm sorry, but I'm very old-fashioned in that respect and I think a lot of women are as well. I want the guy to buy the ring (after subtly collecting hints on what I might be looking for in a ring) and get down on one knee.

I realize that a lot of women love the guy to get down on one knee and buy an expensive engagement and wedding ring (that she doesn't have to make the payments on). But any woman i would be with would be waiting a long time for that. If she wanted to get married she would have to do the asking. I don't get on my knees for anyone. You are putting the woman on a higher level than you and lowering yourself. The guy by doing that is saying she is better than him or more special than him. Putting her on a pedestal whihc is not a healthy thing to do. You are supposed to be equals.

If you notice, all these things cater to the woman. Not a level playing field at all. The guy is getting the short end of the stick in almost everything.

Edited by spats
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I hope that happens for you then.

I didn't (and don't) care about that aspect of things all that much. When I got engaged, WE picked out the ring.

I certainly enjoyed it when he would surprise me with some flowers, and some of the other things we'd do. I've never "expected" the guy to always open the door for me, but sometimes it's nice... and appropriate. But then, I'll hold doors for others as well. I think good manners goes both ways, and door holding is simply being courteous.

Around here, guys often hold the door for women, and when they do that for me, I always say 'thank you' which seems to surprise some of them... but I digress...

Back in the day when i was innocent and naive i would open doors and never get so much as a glance. never appreciated. I learned my lesson.

It would be great if women were doing all the same in return to men. But it's not a level playing field.

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I certainly enjoyed it when he would surprise me with some flowers, and some of the other things we'd do. I've never "expected" the guy to always open the door for me, but sometimes it's nice... and appropriate. But then, I'll hold doors for others as well. I think good manners goes both ways, and door holding is simply being courteous.

Around here, guys often hold the door for women, and when they do that for me, I always say 'thank you' which seems to surprise some of them... but I digress...

That's how a true Southern Gentleman is raised. Hell I'll even hold a door for a guy under the three step rule of course. Just plain respect which seems to be of short supply these days.

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On the surface, Spats' list isn't so wrong, but it's his deeper definition of those things that differs from 99.99% of the population. Take the "won't make me do things I'm uncomfortable with". You read that and think "yeah, what's wrong with that?" Sure, but let's look at what Spats means by that. Take the wedding issue (again). Spats doesn't like going to weddings. Fine, lots of people don't, but rather than go because it's the right thing to do, Spats just doesn't want to do it at all, and can't understand why a significant other would want him to. Can you imagine this exchange?:

"Spats, my sister is getting married on June 10, so we're gonna...."

"We? I'm not going"

"What do you mean you're not going?"

"I don't like going to weddings"

"So you're not going to go with me to my sister's wedding?"

"If you were cool, you wouldn't make me do something I don't like to do. You can go alone, you don't need me to have fun."

"Bye Spats"

That's what's so wrong with that.

Would i be in the wrong if i pressured her to do or go somewhere she didn't want to? In the past if that happened I would just say to her..."don't worry about it you don't have to.". And everything would be fine. Was i right or wrong for doing that? Judging from what you are saying i would be wrong for doing that. Right?

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I can't believe you think the guy getting down on one knee to propose means he thinks the woman is more important than he is, and he is therefore putting her on a pedestal. That is the biggest pile of pig shit I've read here yet. My dad got down on one knee to propose and I can assure you, he doesn't put my mom on a pedestal or think she's above him. My best friend's husband got down on one knee and if anything HE'S on a pedestal, not her.

WTF is the matter with you? Just give up already and go gay. Or become a monk. Anything to get this tripe off the board. You fake, completely staged account.

BTW, holding doors open for a lady, pulling out her chair.....things like this are called "chivalry" and it's how a gentleman acts. You're not a gentleman, so I'm not surprised you abhor the concept.

Edited by Electrophile
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Would i be in the wrong if i pressured her to do or go somewhere she didn't want to? In the past if that happened I would just say to her..."don't worry about it you don't have to.". And everything would be fine. Was i right or wrong for doing that? Judging from what you are saying i would be wrong for doing that. Right?

It's not about pressuring someone to do something. I would expect my friends to come to my dad funeral. It's out of respect. I shouldn't have to pressure them to do that. Even if they don't want to, they would because they're real friends and not only are they showing respect, but helping me get through the tough time. If it's something as little as you don't want to go to a movie but your girlfriend does, then I'm sure her friends would go with her. But for something major like a wedding, a funeral, or something like that, then yes you should be respected to go, no matter how much you don't want to.

Again, it's out of respect and it's an honorable move

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I can't believe you think the guy getting down on one knee to propose means he thinks the woman is more important than he is, and he is therefore putting her on a pedestal. That is the biggest pile of pig shit I've read here yet. My dad got down on one knee to propose and I can assure you, he doesn't put my mom on a pedestal or think she's above him. My best friend's husband got down on one knee and if anything HE'S on a pedestal, not her.

WTF is the matter with you? Just give up already and go gay. Or become a monk. Anything to get this tripe off the board. You fake, completely staged account.

BTW, holding doors open for a lady, pulling out her chair.....things like this are called "chivalry" and it's how a gentleman acts. You're not a gentleman, so I'm not surprised you abhor the concept.

Then why should the man get down on his knee for the woman for?

Do you think women should open doors and pull out chairs and get flowers for guys?

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That's how a true Southern Gentleman is raised. Hell I'll even hold a door for a guy under the three step rule of course. Just plain respect which seems to be of short supply these days.

i hold doors open for everyone, young old, male female how ever long it takes or how ever many people need pass

i wasn't raised in the south though :huh:

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It's not about pressuring someone to do something. I would expect my friends to come to my dad funeral. It's out of respect. I shouldn't have to pressure them to do that. Even if they don't want to, they would because they're real friends and not only are they showing respect, but helping me get through the tough time. If it's something as little as you don't want to go to a movie but your girlfriend does, then I'm sure her friends would go with her. But for something major like a wedding, a funeral, or something like that, then yes you should be respected to go, no matter how much you don't want to.

Again, it's out of respect and it's an honorable move

I agree a funeral is important. But i don't think a wedding is important at all.

I am just saying that i haven't had a problem with a girlfriend not going to anything i wanted to do. I was easygoing about it.

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Opening doors for someone is called "respect". I do that regardless of the gender of the person behind me. I don't pull out chairs for anyone, unless they are young children or the elderly and have problems doing it themselves.

And the man gets down on one knee because it's tradition, I suppose. It's romantic. It doesn't symbolize the man putting the woman on a pedestal, it doesn't symbolize the man thinking the woman is better than him. It doesn't to my knowledge, symbolize a fucking thing. You're never getting married anyway, so why do you care? Worry about things that do concern you, like avoiding carpal tunnel syndrome.

And for God's sake, take a fucking hint already. We all know you're fake. We all know you don't really exist in the real world. You are in no way, shape or form a real human being. This account of yours is a set-up, it's a fakery, it's a troll account. You aren't real, you'll never be real. You are a hologram, an avatar, a figment of our imagination. No actual man thinks like you. I have yet to come across a heterosexual male with the absolutely stunted and fucked-up sexual/relationship hang-ups you have that were not abused as a child. You are a mockery of people with actual problems who need actual help.

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Opening doors for someone is called "respect". I do that regardless of the gender of the person behind me. I don't pull out chairs for anyone, unless they are young children or the elderly and have problems doing it themselves.

And the man gets down on one knee because it's tradition, I suppose. It's romantic. It doesn't symbolize the man putting the woman on a pedestal, it doesn't symbolize the man thinking the woman is better than him. It doesn't to my knowledge, symbolize a fucking thing. You're never getting married anyway, so why do you care? Worry about things that do concern you, like avoiding carpal tunnel syndrome.

And for God's sake, take a fucking hint already. We all know you're fake. We all know you don't really exist in the real world. You are in no way, shape or form a real human being. This account of yours is a set-up, it's a fakery, it's a troll account. You aren't real, you'll never be real. You are a hologram, an avatar, a figment of our imagination. No actual man thinks like you. I have yet to come across a heterosexual male with the absolutely stunted and fucked-up sexual/relationship hang-ups you have that were not abused as a child. You are a mockery of people with actual problems who need actual help.

It think it is supposed to symbolize something. If it's only the man that does it then it must. It just gives off a "the woman is extra special" type feel to it. I am not traditional at all. Maybe if women started getting down on one knee i would see it differently. My last girlfriend broke up with me because i wouldn't be a traditional boyfriend.

You would be surprised, i doubt i am the only guy who has these thoughts and opinions. Some of my buddies have similar ones but they give in to some of the nonsense to get laid.

What is Carpal Tunnel Syndrome? :blink::blink:

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It think it is supposed to symbolize something. If it's only the man that does it then it must. It just gives off a "the woman is extra special" type feel to it. I am not traditional at all. Maybe if women started getting down on one knee i would see it differently. My last girlfriend broke up with me because i wouldn't be a traditional boyfriend.

You would be surprised, i doubt i am the only guy who has these thoughts and opinions. Some of my buddies have similar ones but they give in to some of the nonsense to get laid.

What is Carpal Tunnel Syndrome? :blink::blink:

Tell that to your mother next time you discuss your birthday.

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Saturday would not be complete without a lecture on opening doors; :lol: as for the ring, I'm partial to the guy who buys several to the point where I'm concerned he's spending too much time looking at jewelry. I do not care what ring he buys so long as the love is true, however I have my favorites.

Edited by eternal light
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