The Vaccine for Covid is coming fast

[JohnOsbourne]

1 hour ago, BobDobbs said:

I think I understand what you are saying, but most of that is not the issue. The issue is only a weirdo would think having to wear a mask and social distancing is somehow an infringement on someone's freedom. You list the co-morbidity stats however this is the US where over 50% of the population as co-morbidity such as obesity or diabetes. We are one of, if not the most unhealthy population on the planet which is likely why more people in the US are dying than in any other nation.

Regarding the vaccine, by the time people like you and I even qualify to receive it, any issues with the vaccine will be well known and the vaccine pulled if side affects are akin to a zombie apocalypse. IMO, its much ado about nothing regarding the measures we need to do in order to check the virus.

I would say only a weirdo would think these masks are anything but a security blanket or talisman, there is no conclusive science behind them at all (I've already mentioned that Danish study) but it's a straw-man to reduce the various rights-infringements to mandated mask-wearing.  There's the economic destruction of lock-downs (selectively directed against small business vs big business), increased surveillance by all levels of governments (including the encouragement of snitching like the old USSR), and suppression of free speech (by Big Tech hiding behind various State protections).  Not to mention that politicians openly disregard their own dictates on public health.  These are all in response to what is, by numbers from various government's own public health organs, a bad case of the flu (portrayed as something more sinister with any other cause of death being attributed, without causation being established).  The response is far, far in excess of the actual threat. 

This is a hoot:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-05/covid-19-is-greatest-threat-to-life-in-los-angeles-that-we-have-ever-faced-garcetti-says

Seriously, do you actually believe bullshit claims like this?

[Reggie29]

After reading all the posts, it is clear there is/was a lot of misinformation put out by government agencies about Covid19 and the imminent release of vaccines.

Some of the concerns mentioned are valid whilst others are simply nonsense.

Any vaccine is not 100% effective as some people have bad reactions to them but for the most part are safe and do offer some protection against a variety of diseases.

The pharmaceutical companies and medical research teams from around the world have created a race to be the first to find the "perfect" vaccine with limited testing.

Time will tell if they are/were successful.

This pandemic has caused a lot of suffering both health and financially. Over 1.5 million deaths and counting and untold jobs lost.

To suggest that a vaccine will cause mind control is ludicrous and where is the evidence to support it, from some questionable internet sites and other conspiracy theorists?

Freedom being taken away, is another puzzling situation that is being blown out of proportion.

Now I don't know what it's like living in the U.S. at the moment and I won't pretend to know as I am not privy to first hand experience.

Back in March in Australia, we acted swiftly to close all international and state borders and introduced lockdowns with only essential services i.e. health workers, construction, supermarkets and transport industries exempt but with strict protocols enforced to restrict exposure and spreading of the virus. However, this was not 100% effective as the virus was introduced by international travelers and expats arriving home. Those people were forced into quarantine for 14 days in hotels some 5 star at the expense of the N.S.W. government (taxpayers). 

Social distancing and testing was introduced and an app was created for contact tracing to identify and capture potential infections or anyone who had visited any "hotspots".

Masks were encouraged to be worn in areas of large gatherings like supermarkets etc. Hand sanitiser was and still is provided free at every location. Impinged freedom? No. Just common sense precautions.

Questionable, if not illegal practices of some corporations, particularly those associated with aged care facilities causing a high death toll which would have been avoided had they allowed the healthy residents to return to their families. That was definitely a case of taking away freedom. not by the government but by greedy corporations. They are now facing criminal and civil justice.

When businesses were forced to close, the Federal Government introduced initiatives to help relieve the financial burden on workers and to keep business afloat. This was in the form of Job Keeper payments for workers stood down and those on welfare had their payments doubled for 6 months and we received two extra economy stimulus payments of $750 during that time. Our government did what they're expected to do, protect and care for their people.

Sadly, some small businesses will not recover and have closed for good but there is still hope for them. The positive thing is we learned a valuable lesson in that we relied to heavily on imports and how we need to return to manufacturing our own goods. This was highlighted by the lack of personal protection equipment (masks) available to hospitals etc. and because pubs and other venues were closed, the demand for alcohol was reduced bottle shops (liquor stores) not withstanding,  distillers started to produce hand sanitiser and wipes etc.

Our military stepped up and helped with production and logistics.

Panic buying was experienced across the globe especially toilet paper (as if it were some kind of miracle protection!?).

We were always allowed to go out and about for physical exercise and to ease any potential mental issues caused by being locked down.

Now our state borders are open to all states and we are almost Covid 19 free except for South Australia which had a small outbreak but are expected to open very soon.

2020 will be a year hard to forget here, first with horrendous bushfires, then floods (the affected communities were just starting to recover somewhat) and ultimately compounded by the virus.

We are fortunate that we are able to celebrate Christmas and the New Year with families and for that I am am thankful to our government and agencies who have worked tirelessly over the last 9 months to get where we are now.

Australia may not be the greatest (whatever that means?) country but in this instance we are proving to be the best.

Stay safe and enjoy the Christmas/New Year as best you can. I hope and pray that this ends for you all soon.

Peace.

 

 

[Strider]

6 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

More "conspiracy theorizing" from the Infectious Diseases Society of America, on how the PCR test is exaggerating the number of cases through over-amplification of the cycle thresholds in the test:

Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates | Clinical Infectious Diseases | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

"A new study from the Infectious Diseases Society of America, found that at 25 cycles of amplification, 70% of PCR test "positives" are not "cases" since the virus cannot be cultured, it's dead. And by 35: 97% of the positives are non-clinical."  (quoted from For The First Time, A US State Will Require Disclosure Of PCR 'Cycle Threshold' Data In COVID Tests | Zero Hedge)

That was a good read and warrants further study.

[luvlz2]

1 hour ago, Reggie29 said:

After reading all the posts, it is clear there is/was a lot of misinformation put out by government agencies about Covid19 and the imminent release of vaccines.

Some of the concerns mentioned are valid whilst others are simply nonsense.

Any vaccine is not 100% effective as some people have bad reactions to them but for the most part are safe and do offer some protection against a variety of diseases.

The pharmaceutical companies and medical research teams from around the world have created a race to be the first to find the "perfect" vaccine with limited testing.

Time will tell if they are/were successful.

This pandemic has caused a lot of suffering both health and financially. Over 1.5 million deaths and counting and untold jobs lost.

To suggest that a vaccine will cause mind control is ludicrous and where is the evidence to support it, from some questionable internet sites and other conspiracy theorists?

Freedom being taken away, is another puzzling situation that is being blown out of proportion.

Now I don't know what it's like living in the U.S. at the moment and I won't pretend to know as I am not privy to first hand experience.

Back in March in Australia, we acted swiftly to close all international and state borders and introduced lockdowns with only essential services i.e. health workers, construction, supermarkets and transport industries exempt but with strict protocols enforced to restrict exposure and spreading of the virus. However, this was not 100% effective as the virus was introduced by international travelers and expats arriving home. Those people were forced into quarantine for 14 days in hotels some 5 star at the expense of the N.S.W. government (taxpayers). 

Social distancing and testing was introduced and an app was created for contact tracing to identify and capture potential infections or anyone who had visited any "hotspots".

Masks were encouraged to be worn in areas of large gatherings like supermarkets etc. Hand sanitiser was and still is provided free at every location. Impinged freedom? No. Just common sense precautions.

Questionable, if not illegal practices of some corporations, particularly those associated with aged care facilities causing a high death toll which would have been avoided had they allowed the healthy residents to return to their families. That was definitely a case of taking away freedom. not by the government but by greedy corporations. They are now facing criminal and civil justice.

When businesses were forced to close, the Federal Government introduced initiatives to help relieve the financial burden on workers and to keep business afloat. This was in the form of Job Keeper payments for workers stood down and those on welfare had their payments doubled for 6 months and we received two extra economy stimulus payments of $750 during that time. Our government did what they're expected to do, protect and care for their people.

Sadly, some small businesses will not recover and have closed for good but there is still hope for them. The positive thing is we learned a valuable lesson in that we relied to heavily on imports and how we need to return to manufacturing our own goods. This was highlighted by the lack of personal protection equipment (masks) available to hospitals etc. and because pubs and other venues were closed, the demand for alcohol was reduced bottle shops (liquor stores) not withstanding,  distillers started to produce hand sanitiser and wipes etc.

Our military stepped up and helped with production and logistics.

Panic buying was experienced across the globe especially toilet paper (as if it were some kind of miracle protection!?).

We were always allowed to go out and about for physical exercise and to ease any potential mental issues caused by being locked down.

Now our state borders are open to all states and we are almost Covid 19 free except for South Australia which had a small outbreak but are expected to open very soon.

2020 will be a year hard to forget here, first with horrendous bushfires, then floods (the affected communities were just starting to recover somewhat) and ultimately compounded by the virus.

We are fortunate that we are able to celebrate Christmas and the New Year with families and for that I am am thankful to our government and agencies who have worked tirelessly over the last 9 months to get where we are now.

Australia may not be the greatest (whatever that means?) country but in this instance we are proving to be the best.

Stay safe and enjoy the Christmas/New Year as best you can. I hope and pray that this ends for you all soon.

Peace.

 

 

You too Reggie!

[JohnOsbourne]

Here's what I see for the US from poking around the CDC website:

year    deaths    population    rate
2013    2,596,993    316,128,839    821.5
2014    2,626,418    318,857,056    823.7
2015    2,712,630    321,418,820    844
2016    2,744,248    323,127,513    849.3
2017    2,813,503    325,719,178    863.8
2018    2,839,205    327,167,434    867.8
2019    2,855,000    329,130,000    867.4
2020    2,918,176    330,775,650    881.3
 

Rate is deaths per 100K of population.  Data is final/official through 2018, 2019 is provisional but should be adequate.  2020 deaths from all causes are about 2.7M through Dec 7th, that number is lagging and also provisional, but grossing it up proportionately should be good enough.  Anyway, it looks like a 1.6% increase in mortality rate this year.  Not good of course, but also not historically unprecedented even in this sample.  And of course, since every death where there's a positive covid test gets attributed to the virus, we have no idea what's really causing this, there can't be much doubt that the lock-downs have contributed in various ways.  Ultimately it looks like we're talking about something like 100K excess deaths.  Again, nothing to dismiss, but is it really major crisis territory?  I can't see how.

 

[JohnOsbourne]

Fat-fingered something there, projected 2020 mortality rate should be 882.2.  (Also I assume a historical 0.5% population growth rate.)  Doesn't affect the main point of course.

[BobDobbs]

2 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

I would say only a weirdo would think these masks are anything but a security blanket or talisman, there is no conclusive science behind them at all (I've already mentioned that Danish study) but it's a straw-man to reduce the various rights-infringements to mandated mask-wearing.  There's the economic destruction of lock-downs (selectively directed against small business vs big business), increased surveillance by all levels of governments (including the encouragement of snitching like the old USSR), and suppression of free speech (by Big Tech hiding behind various State protections).  Not to mention that politicians openly disregard their own dictates on public health.  These are all in response to what is, by numbers from various government's own public health organs, a bad case of the flu (portrayed as something more sinister with any other cause of death being attributed, without causation being established).  The response is far, far in excess of the actual threat. 

This is a hoot:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-05/covid-19-is-greatest-threat-to-life-in-los-angeles-that-we-have-ever-faced-garcetti-says

Seriously, do you actually believe bullshit claims like this?

Well, what I do believe is COVID deaths have exceeded 2k per day and that COVID is now the #1 cause of death in the US, surpassing death from Heart Disease. I really don't think wearing a mask (even if it only saves a handful of people) and social distancing is too much to ask. 

Where you see conspiracy I see a wake up call and thank the Fates that this pandemic has not yet become a repeat of 1918, London 1670's, or Europe / Asia mid-14th century. Once this is over I hope we can learn from this and make better decisions moving forward as a nation and as a world.

[cryingbluerain]

5 hours ago, BobDobbs said:

The issue is only a weirdo would think having to wear a mask and social distancing is somehow an infringement on someone's freedom. 

Typical brown shirt statement.  When fines and loss of business is involved because of mandatory requirements it is definitely an infringement on personal freedom.  
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/30/918704017/new-york-city-imposes-fines-of-up-to-1-000-for-those-who-refuse-to-wear-face-mas

 

[rm2551]

We along with NZ will probably be the last country in the developed world to get the vaccine. Good! 1. We don't need it in a hurry. As @Reggie29 pointed out, our conservative Government did a stellar job here. Not perfect, but bloody well good. Federal Government worked in coordination with all state leaders. Completely non-partisan work for the good of the country. and 2. if there are any issues that are born out from the rest of the world taking it, then we dodge a bullet!

win-win baby!

I hope y'all stay safe and healthy.

[Stryder1978]

This morning on the news they had a story showing a restaurant owner in LA who was crying while being interviewed.  She said she didn't understand as she pointed across the street at a film crew setting up with a catering truck while the city/county shut her restaurant down from indoor/outdoor dining.

It's hypocritical government decisions like this that REALLY piss me off! 

 

[LedZeppfan1977]

9 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Here's what I see for the US from poking around the CDC website:

year    deaths    population    rate
2013    2,596,993    316,128,839    821.5
2014    2,626,418    318,857,056    823.7
2015    2,712,630    321,418,820    844
2016    2,744,248    323,127,513    849.3
2017    2,813,503    325,719,178    863.8
2018    2,839,205    327,167,434    867.8
2019    2,855,000    329,130,000    867.4
2020    2,918,176    330,775,650    881.3
 

Rate is deaths per 100K of population.  Data is final/official through 2018, 2019 is provisional but should be adequate.  2020 deaths from all causes are about 2.7M through Dec 7th, that number is lagging and also provisional, but grossing it up proportionately should be good enough.  Anyway, it looks like a 1.6% increase in mortality rate this year.  Not good of course, but also not historically unprecedented even in this sample.  And of course, since every death where there's a positive covid test gets attributed to the virus, we have no idea what's really causing this, there can't be much doubt that the lock-downs have contributed in various ways.  Ultimately it looks like we're talking about something like 100K excess deaths.  Again, nothing to dismiss, but is it really major crisis territory?  I can't see how.  

So your numbers say the increase in deaths in the USA is 63,176!!!!!!  BULLSHIT.  Pure BULLSHIT.  Are you serious? I do not buy these numbers.  They are not consistent with all of the reporting.  There was NO COVID IN 2019.  2020 is the yeaer of the devil.  We are in minimum 6 figures as far as the Covid deaths and I believe its actually 7.

 

I would certainly question the accuracy of this source.  There is a huge number of deaths in the elderly from this virus.  No question its a killer to the elderly and to blacks and hispanics.  I am type 2 and  am going to take the vaccine if I can get it before catching the damn thing?  I stay pretty much out in my county which is coded "yellow" by Cuomo's chart.  I think Cuomo has done a very good job considering NY was hit the hardest early and dealt with it the best they could. They have led in testing and of course their company came up with the vaccine.  So being diabetic I have no choice but to trust this vaccine.  I am going to keep wearing the mask.  That said, I am pissed at Cuomo for some of his actions.  The bastard fired the toll booth workers, pretty much forced us to buy this thing called EZpass for the thruway.  I just got my credit card whacked re upping it with only $5 left on it but I have not even used the damn thruway.  I took my card off the site.  There are some other gripes I have with him I will not mention here.  So anyway, your above numbers suggest that the death rate is business as usual.  No way.  I do not buy it. Are you suggesting this is all made up?    I would challenge that the increase IS UNPRECEDENTED.    This  virus is killing the groups I have mentioned. 

[LedZeppfan1977]

1 minute ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

 

 

[JohnOsbourne]

2 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

I would certainly question the accuracy of this source.  There is a huge number of deaths in the elderly from this virus.  No question its a killer to the elderly and to blacks and hispanics.  I am type 2 and  am going to take the vaccine if I can get it before catching the damn thing?  I stay pretty much out in my county which is coded "yellow" by Cuomo's chart.  I think Cuomo has done a very good job considering NY was hit the hardest early and dealt with it the best they could. They have led in testing and of course their company came up with the vaccine.  So being diabetic I have no choice but to trust this vaccine.  I am going to keep wearing the mask.  That said, I am pissed at Cuomo for some of his actions.  The bastard fired the toll booth workers, pretty much forced us to buy this thing called EZpass for the thruway.  I just got my credit card whacked re upping it with only $5 left on it but I have not even used the damn thruway.  I took my card off the site.  There are some other gripes I have with him I will not mention here.  So anyway, your above numbers suggest that the death rate is business as usual.  No way.  I do not buy it. Are you suggesting this is all made up?    I would challenge that the increase IS UNPRECEDENTED.    This  virus is killing the groups I have mentioned. 

These numbers come from the federal government's own public health agency.

[LedZeppfan1977]

2 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

I would certainly question the accuracy of this source.  There is a huge number of deaths in the elderly from this virus.  No question its a killer to the elderly and to blacks and hispanics.  I am type 2 and  am going to take the vaccine if I can get it before catching the damn thing?  I stay pretty much out in my county which is coded "yellow" by Cuomo's chart.  I think Cuomo has done a very good job considering NY was hit the hardest early and dealt with it the best they could. They have led in testing and of course their company came up with the vaccine.  So being diabetic I have no choice but to trust this vaccine.  I am going to keep wearing the mask.  That said, I am pissed at Cuomo for some of his actions.  The bastard fired the toll booth workers, pretty much forced us to buy this thing called EZpass for the thruway.  I just got my credit card whacked re upping it with only $5 left on it but I have not even used the damn thruway.  I took my card off the site.  There are some other gripes I have with him I will not mention here.  So anyway, your above numbers suggest that the death rate is business as usual.  No way.  I do not buy it. Are you suggesting this is all made up?    I would challenge that the increase IS UNPRECEDENTED.    This  virus is killing the groups I have mentioned. 

The rest of my post did not work. Something is going on with my computer. But the 63,000 increase suggested in deaths here is TOTALLY OFF.    We know that this virus has killed 6 or 7 figures in this country.  Far more than the 63K plus mentioned in this chart.  That being the increase from 2019 with no virus and 2020 with the virus

[LedZeppfan1977]

1 minute ago, JohnOsbourne said:

These numbers come from the federal government's own public health agency.

So you are telling me that only 63 thousand more have died in 2020 than in 2019:?  I do not buy it.

[LedZeppfan1977]

I had about two paragraphs that did not post.  I do not know what is going on with this but I do not have the time to go research several sources, but I do not accept these number based on what many news agencies are reporting

[LedZeppfan1977]

What I am saying is that the increase in deaths from 2019 to 2020 is staggering.  Its more than 63,000.  Are you going to stand by that number?

[LedZeppfan1977]

14 and a half million Covid cases and 284,000 deaths from Covid in USA.  Just looked these numbers up.  That is 6 digits. No damn way is that going to translate from 2019 to 2020 as only 63K deaths.  NO FUCKING WAY

[JohnOsbourne]

3 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

14 and a half million Covid cases and 284,000 deaths from Covid in USA.  Just looked these numbers up.  That is 6 digits. No damn way is that going to translate from 2019 to 2020 as only 63K deaths.  NO FUCKING WAY

I put the official numbers there and indicated the source so others can think about it themselves.  You are clearly unwilling or unable to do so, and are acting like a damn fool who's scared of his own shadow.  Total embarrassment.  Again:  please self-quarantine, your hysteria is contagious.

[Stryder1978]

28 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

I would certainly question the accuracy of this source.  There is a huge number of deaths in the elderly from this virus.  No question its a killer to the elderly and to blacks and hispanics.  I am type 2 and  am going to take the vaccine if I can get it before catching the damn thing?  I stay pretty much out in my county which is coded "yellow" by Cuomo's chart.  I think Cuomo has done a very good job considering NY was hit the hardest early and dealt with it the best they could. They have led in testing and of course their company came up with the vaccine.  So being diabetic I have no choice but to trust this vaccine.  I am going to keep wearing the mask.  That said, I am pissed at Cuomo for some of his actions.  The bastard fired the toll booth workers, pretty much forced us to buy this thing called EZpass for the thruway.  I just got my credit card whacked re upping it with only $5 left on it but I have not even used the damn thruway.  I took my card off the site.  There are some other gripes I have with him I will not mention here.  So anyway, your above numbers suggest that the death rate is business as usual.  No way.  I do not buy it. Are you suggesting this is all made up?    I would challenge that the increase IS UNPRECEDENTED.    This  virus is killing the groups I have mentioned. 

Tell that to the relatives of the 6,624 people that died as a result of Cuomo's incompetent decision to direct nursing homes in the state to accept patients who had or were suspected of having COVID-19. As long as they were medically stable, the notice said, it was appropriate to move patients in. Further, nursing homes were prohibited from requiring that medically stable prospective residents be tested for the virus before they arrived.

And with over 34,769 deaths, New York STILL has twice the number of Covid deaths as any other State in the U.S.......yea, that putz is doing a great job over there!  Glad he's YOUR governor!

[JohnOsbourne]

To anyone who's interested (we know who's not), if you look at the data I posted (again, from government sources), you can see that the overall mortality rate in the US has been trending up since 2013 (and probably before that), at about a 1% annual rate.  The rate does appear elevated this year, but certainly not by cataclysmic proportions (as the media and technocrats would have us believe).  Again:  we're destroying the livelihood of millions and preparing to use millions as human guinea pigs, for this?  Why?

[SteveAJones]

22 hours ago, BobDobbs said:

What freedoms are being infringed? 

Off the top of my head...freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to worship, freedom from government overreach, freedom to travel, freedom to earn a living...

20 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Lot of true believers here, I see.

COVID-19 has become a religion for some people, and nothing else matters besides.

[SteveAJones]

18 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

To anyone who's interested (we know who's not), if you look at the data I posted (again, from government sources), you can see that the overall mortality rate in the US has been trending up since 2013 (and probably before that), at about a 1% annual rate.  The rate does appear elevated this year, but certainly not by cataclysmic proportions (as the media and technocrats would have us believe).  Again:  we're destroying the livelihood of millions and preparing to use millions as human guinea pigs, for this?  Why?

Fun fact: Influenza is down 95% this year. You don't suppose they're counting flu cases as COVID-19 cases now, do ya? 😉

[JohnOsbourne]

15 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Fun fact: Influenza is down 95% this year. You don't suppose they're counting flu cases as COVID-19 cases now, do ya? 😉

Another fun fact (actually tragic and scandalous):  if you look at CDC mortality rate data back to 1999 (as far back as the website has), mortality rate was trending down until 2009, at which point it did an about-face and has trended up ever since.  Hmm;  I wonder if some major event took place around 2008 or so?  (Hint:  I'm not talking about Obama, it goes well beyond red team-blue team bullshit.)

[JohnOsbourne]

2 minutes ago, LedZeppfan1977 said:

your numbers are bullshit. The death rate is far higher. You must be a Trump supporter.  My condolences

Jesus, you think this a red team/blue team thing?  God I pity you.