The GMan Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Does anyone have any good advice for an struggling songwriter? I'm in a band and we've been working hard for about 4 or 5 years now but we still haven't started anything major. We seem to have trouble fitting music and lyrics together. Any suggestions as to how we go about building the lyrics AND the music? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Action Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Well, personally I would recommend putting the melody together first, so you can make the lyrics fit, adjusting them as needed. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leddy Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I would study a song you really like by someone else, that for me was a great help to breakdown and see what goes on, then twist it round and voilà a new original song !! or at least it starts something and you then go off on a tangent !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyPageZoSo56 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Does anyone have any good advice for an struggling songwriter? I'm in a band and we've been working hard for about 4 or 5 years now but we still haven't started anything major. We seem to have trouble fitting music and lyrics together. Any suggestions as to how we go about building the lyrics AND the music? Any suggestions would be appreciated. My advice; Find your inner being and find what you like. Throw down the melody and listen to it many times until you feel like you have lyrics. Write lyrics down as you listen to the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Action Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 My advice; Find your inner being and find what you like. Throw down the melody and listen to it many times until you feel like you have lyrics. Write lyrics down as you listen to the song. A much more eloquent way to say what I was trying to get across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RjK Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Does anyone have any good advice for an struggling songwriter? I'm in a band and we've been working hard for about 4 or 5 years now but we still haven't started anything major. We seem to have trouble fitting music and lyrics together. Any suggestions as to how we go about building the lyrics AND the music? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Lock yourself in a room with your guitar and don't come out till you have a song written (music & lyrics). Just keep it real simple at first, try a simple blues format and grow from there, it does not have to be good just complete and finished then after you get one under your belt you will start to relax with the process and then just keep building from the experience. Nobody I mean nobody finds the process easy all the time and sometimes its like pulling teeth but you have to be single minded and determined to just get it done. Remember to relax about the process, you have already taken a first step in a way by asking for advice here and its a start now just "git er done". Let us know how you make out. Peace, RjK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GMan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Lock yourself in a room with your guitar and don't come out till you have a song written (music & lyrics). Just keep it real simple at first, try a simple blues format and grow from there, it does not have to be good just complete and finished then after you get one under your belt you will start to relax with the process and then just keep building from the experience. Nobody I mean nobody finds the process easy all the time and sometimes its like pulling teeth but you have to be single minded and determined to just get it done. Remember to relax about the process, you have already taken a first step in a way by asking for advice here and its a start now just "git er done". Let us know how you make out. Peace, RjK Thanks for everyone's advice so far. I think one thing that makes it hard for me alone to build the melody and lyrics is that I'm a bass player of marginal skill; it's hard for me to make melodies. The boys and I come up with some great licks though, so should I just record some of those licks and build from there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeyedrichard Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I generally write lyrics as I write the melody and the actual song itself. I go into the jam room with my brother playing drums and we jam away. 95% of our songs have appeared through jamming. While we play them I tend to freestyle lyrics. This way it is spontaneous and whatever I am feeling at the time comes straight out. If some of the lyrics are good I write them down. Then in another jam session we will do the same again and gradually build lyrics up that way. Don't be too pressed on getting lyrics down in one sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GMan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Again, thanks for all your advice. Let me clarify a couple of things. I'm the bass player and working singer for the band currently; we have a "power trio" type build to our band so resources are limited. We've been looking for an extra member or two but we haven't found anyone suitable quite yet. We aim for a style between classic rock and hair metal type stuff. Our influences include everyone from, of course, Led Zeppelin all the way to Guns & Roses, Van Halen, and so on. I also glean from more current bands such as Dave Matthews Band, Muse, etc. Now hopefully that layout will help all of you give some more specific advice. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonham Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Don't forget, there are so many different ways to make a song. Bonham layed down the drum track for Four Sticks, and they built around it. It can work from any angle. You can sing the lyrics any way you want, they can be whatever they want, but remember to always have good musicians otherwise it's harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GMan Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Was just checking your profile to see if you are from NY. Figured the Gman thing was for the NY Giants? Maybe Im wrong-please let me know. If you are in NY, would like to know what part. .Im in Rochester. Sorry, not a Giants fan. I live in VA, the GMan come from a few different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeyedrichard Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Stay as a three piece mate....less arguments. I have always been in three piece bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GMan Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Stay as a three piece mate....less arguments. I have always been in three piece bands. Yea, plus three is a Biblical number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyPage1977 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Sorry, not a Giants fan. I live in VA, the GMan come from a few different things. Probably works for the Federal Government. On topic: Write about what you know. Lyric- wise! Find a phrase that when repeated is catchy (Wanna Whole Lotta Love) for the chorus. Use chord progressions that are simple. D- C- G .... throw in an A minor once in a while. Half of Clapton's songs fit here!! Keep it simple and let a producer help you to expand on an easy idea. It leaves a lot of room to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GMan Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Does anyone know of a way to contact Robert Plant and ask his advice on songwriting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGG Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Does anyone know of a way to contact Robert Plant and ask his advice on songwriting? Stick with the advice given above ^^ there's some good stuff there. keep it simple being among the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Do what Zeppelin did.... listen to the Roots of Blues. Get this book and relate to the words, while listening to the Blues innovators. And Nick from the BEST ! ! They DID !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redeyedrichard Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Does anyone know of a way to contact Robert Plant and ask his advice on songwriting? haha! Ask a guy on here called Samo, he's the next best thing to Plant...he will help you with lyrics and all things singing related. :lol: That was a joke by the way....DON'T!!! But seriously now, I suggest you also try taking a break, going away for a weekend somewhere and relaxing. Lyrics have a habit of popping up in a different environment. I believe I wrote an article at one point about lyrics writing...I'll have a look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Does anyone have any good advice for an struggling songwriter? I'm in a band and we've been working hard for about 4 or 5 years now but we still haven't started anything major. We seem to have trouble fitting music and lyrics together. Any suggestions as to how we go about building the lyrics AND the music? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Well, the way I go about writing songs is I'll take whatever nugget I have; be it a riff, a melody line, a chord sequence, whatever, and then I follow my head. I don't force what I'm doing because that's bound to end up sounding contrived and/or obvious. If the music isn't ready to be written that day, I just leave it for another time. I always follow the music in my head. If I can hear where I want the song to go, I just persevere with my guitar until I find the right chord (for example). Sometimes it's just frustrating and I can't work out what exactly it is that I'm hearing for ages, but I'll always persevere. I never change what I'm hearing just because I can't work out what it is that I'm hearing, if you know what I mean. For me, it's all about getting exactly what's in my brain out of my brain without compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatdrastik Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 the best advice I can give is write stuff that doesn't suck...unless you want to be really really famous and sell lots of records and be on mtv & stuff...then write stuff that really sucks.. but really, just make honest music. Don't set out to write a certain kind of song, just let it happen and let the people decide if it's any good....and never, ever throw an idea away..if it doesn't fit now it probably will later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmsofAtlas Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I would study a song you really like by someone else, that for me was a great help to breakdown and see what goes on, then twist it round and voilà a new original song !! or at least it starts something and you then go off on a tangent !! This is sorta what I do. I write strictly on guitar, no lyrics. I take song structures(verse/chorus/verse/etc/etc/etc) and kinda copy them with different music. It kinda helps to keep from writin really simple songs. Also listen for dynamics in such. It's so often overlooked, especially in "amatuers". The thing that always scares me.......You listen to a great tune, and there is so much extra little shit. I haven't really had the chance to develop a song over several months, like pro bands do, but will those little pieces that really make a song, pop into my fingers one day? The best ideas always kinda pop outta nowhere, when you are jammin. SO JAM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatdrastik Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 This is sorta what I do. I write strictly on guitar, no lyrics. I take song structures(verse/chorus/verse/etc/etc/etc) and kinda copy them with different music. It kinda helps to keep from writin really simple songs. Also listen for dynamics in such. It's so often overlooked, especially in "amatuers". The thing that always scares me.......You listen to a great tune, and there is so much extra little shit. I haven't really had the chance to develop a song over several months, like pro bands do, but will those little pieces that really make a song, pop into my fingers one day? Songs evolve..most of those little things you are talking about come from playing songs to death live, one night you'll do something cool, and hopefully(!!) remember it, over time those things just become part of the song. Record your band playing a song(even a cover) then do it again after 6 months or a years worth of gigs and you'll see a huge difference. Alot of it for me is just boredom, I get tired of playing the same old shit night after night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 You know Leonard Cohen once said "If I knew where all the good songs came from, I'd go there more often". And that's very true. The harder you work on a song, the less you'll like it. And all the great songwriters have said that the best songs are the ones that just tumble out of you, and I agree. I remember I was commissioned by a theatre company to write an old 1930's-style song for a big stage production. And they already had the lyrics to it, so i was trying to write the tune, and for hours and hours I sat there and nothing was happening. i wasn't getting anything. Then I opened up a book that was a collection of French songs from the 40's and 50's, and the first song I looked at was in 3/4 time, and the first chord in the piano was an A6. And I played the A6 chord, and that's all I needed to kick start everything and the song was all written in the next 30 minutes. So you don't always know what's going to help you get out of a jam. A similar thing happened to Henry Mancini when he was writing that old classic song Moon River. He said it took him a month just to get those first 3 notes of the song. And after he got those three notes, the rest of the song wrote itself pretty quickly. You just gotta keep working at it. because I find you'll be trying to write a song and you'll be working for hours and hours at it, then you'll chuck the guitar down in frustration. And while you're out having a smoke, the music for a new and completely different song will just start to flood your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bomber Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Just lock your drummer in a dark room with a real instrument like bass or guitar with no food and don't let him out until he has a song,if he dies,who wins?Society,get a drum machine and continue without him. Simple chords,very simple chords,make a tempo and for christ's sake the lyrics should be as simple or complex as the song,if you get great you can write anything but keep going this until you're great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Dude, I'll just be sitting there in class, in bed, on the sofa, whatever, and a song will pop into my head, beat, bass, melody, other voicings, lyrics... EVERYTHING. I've been around music for a longer part of my life, maybe that's why; maybe it's that i'm Right-brained, maybe it's "God's gift", I don't know, that's just how it works for me. So i taught myself a decent amount of classical theory and composition. Using that, a fair bit of experimenting, and just what i hear in my head, I put together a song. The end. If you don't have a song playing in your head... all parts of it, or at least a large part of it... then you're screwed buddy. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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