The Next President of the USA will be?

[~tangerine~]

Like most union workers, I pay into a trust account that buys insurance at a group rate. That insurance buys me and my family premium health services. I get it that a lot of people can't afford what I have, but the government DOES provide health care through various social services and no one in the United States can be turned away from a hospital if their condition is potentially life threatening. That is a FACT.

So the analogy here is that I can buy a Cadillac, some may have to settle for a Pinto. The university dentistry program at the University of Washington (in my community) provides an excellent quality of care for free or near free, and I know, because when I was a starving musician I went there for dental work. They do as well, and in some cases better than some dental practices. Neighborhood medical clinics have a waiting line and operate on a sliding scale according to your income, but still provide good medical care. The government already provides these services.

Since when does disagreeing with someone mean that they are aggressive? If you can't read an opposing point of view without getting your panties in a bunch stick to Austrailian politics, pony boy.

We are not all union workers. But aside from that, i think the reason many Americans are not insured is because they can't afford it. God forbid they have a "preexisting" condition. I will tell you the way people who need "life threatening" help as well as not so life threatening help get care...they go to the Emergency Room. Theres your "fact". The cost to hospitals (which is passed on to all of us) is probably pretty high. People should not have to be "dying" to get care. Go work in a hospital for 17 years and see if you don't change your mind about people (rich, poor, dirty, clean, black, white, indian, hispanic, asian, etc). deserving medical treatment. Yes, even homeless people get a bed in the winter when they are suffering from hypothermia. What a great country we live in. Should we thank Bush for his great achievements in the healthcare field the last eight years?

Now on to your last statements: i didn't say you were aggressive. I wasn't addressing that part of your post because it didn't phase me. And i am not Australian or pony boy...and just because i have an opinion, my panties are in a bunch? Pretty immature assessment of me. Scotty is it?

So here are some "FACTS" about the subject:

................................................................................

..........................................

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

This document is also available as a printable .pdf file.

Health Insurance Coverage

Facts on Health Insurance Coverage

Introduction

Most Americans have health insurance through their employers. But, employment is no longer a guarantee of health insurance coverage.

As America continues to move from a manufacturing-based economy to a service economy, and employee working patterns continue to evolve, health insurance coverage has become less stable. The service sector offers less access to health insurance than its manufacturing counterparts. Further, an increasing reliance on part-time and contract workers who are not eligible for coverage means fewer workers have access to employer-sponsored health insurance.

Due to rising health insurance premiums, many small employers cannot afford to offer health benefits. Companies that do offer health insurance, often require employees to contribute a larger share toward their coverage. As a result, an increasing number of Americans have opted not to take advantage of job-based health insurance because they cannot afford it.

Who are the uninsured?

Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.1

The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 9 million people since 2000.1

The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2

The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006.1 Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006.

Nearly 90 million people - about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.3

Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families - almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.2

The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 59 percent in 2006. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade.4, 5

In 2005, nearly 15 percent of employees had no employer-sponsored health coverage available to them, either through their own job or through a family member.6

In 2006, 37.7 million workers were uninsured because not all businesses offer health benefits, not all workers qualify for coverage and many employees cannot afford their share of the health insurance premium even when coverage is at their fingertips.1

The number of uninsured children in 2006 was 8.7 million - or 11.7 percent of all children in the U.S.1 The number of children who are uninsured increased by nearly 610,000 in 2006, the second year that the number of uninsured children increased.

Young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2005 - 29.3 percent of this group did not have health insurance.1

The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 34.1 percent and 15.3 million in 2006.1

Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more.1 A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

Why is the number of uninsured people increasing?

Millions of workers don’t have the opportunity to get health coverage. A third of firms in the U.S. did not offer coverage in 2006.4

Nearly two-fifths (38 percent) of all workers are employed in smaller businesses, where less than two-thirds of firms now offer health benefits to their employees.7 It is estimated that 266,000 companies dropped their health coverage between 2000-2005 and 90 percent of those firms have less than 25 employees.

Rapidly rising health insurance premiums are the main reason cited by all small firms for not offering coverage. Health insurance premiums are rising at extraordinary rates. The average annual increase in inflation has been 2.5 percent while health insurance premiums for small firms have escalated an average of 12 percent annually.4

Even if employees are offered coverage on the job, they can’t always afford their portion of the premium. Employee spending for health insurance coverage (employee’s share of family coverage) has increased 143 percent between 2000 and 2006.8

Losing a job, or quitting voluntarily, can mean losing affordable coverage - not only for the worker but also for their entire family. Only seven (7) percent of the unemployed can afford to pay for COBRA health insurance - the continuation of group coverage offered by their former employers. Premiums for this coverage average almost $700 a month for family coverage and $250 for individual coverage, a very high price given the average $1,100 monthly unemployment check.9

Coverage is unstable during life’s transitions. A person’s link to employer-sponsored coverage can also be cut by a change from full-time to part-time work, or self-employment, retirement or divorce.10

How does being uninsured harm individuals and families?

Lack of insurance compromises the health of the uninsured because they receive less preventive care, are diagnosed at more advanced disease stages, and once diagnosed, tend to receive less therapeutic care and have higher mortality rates than insured individuals.11

Regardless of age, race, ethnicity, income or health status, uninsured children were much less likely to have received a well-child checkup within the past year. One study shows that nearly 50 percent of uninsured children did not receive a checkup in 2003, almost twice the rate (26 percent) for insured children.12

The uninsured are increasingly paying “up front” -- before services will be rendered. When they are unable to pay the full medical bill in cash at the time of service, they can be turned away except in life-threatening circumstances.7

About 20 percent of the uninsured (vs. three percent of those with coverage) say their usual source of care is the emergency room.2

Studies estimate that the number of excess deaths among uninsured adults age 25-64 is in the range of 18,000 a year. This mortality figure is more than the number of deaths from diabetes (17,500) within the same age group.10

According to one study, over a third of the uninsured have problems paying medical bills. The unpaid bills were substantial enough that many had been turned over to collection agencies - and nearly a quarter of the uninsured adults said they had changed their way of life significantly to pay medical bills.13

What additional costs are created by the uninsured population?

The United States spends nearly $100 billion per year to provide uninsured residents with health services, often for preventable diseases or diseases that physicians could treat more efficiently with earlier diagnosis.14

Hospitals provide about $34 billion worth of uncompensated care a year.14

Another $37 billion is paid by private and public payers for health services for the uninsured and $26 billion is paid out-of-pocket by those who lack coverage.14

The uninsured are 30 to 50 percent more likely to be hospitalized for an avoidable condition, with the average cost of an avoidable hospital stayed estimated to be about $3,300.14

The increasing reliance of the uninsured on the emergency department has serious economic implications, since the cost of treating patients is higher in the emergency department than in other outpatient clinics and medical practices.11

A new study found that 29 percent of people who had health insurance were “underinsured” with coverage so meager they often postponed medical care because of costs.15 Nearly 50 percent overall, and 43 percent of people with health coverage, said they were “somewhat” to “completely” unprepared to cope with a costly medical emergency over the coming year.15

Getting Everyone Covered Will Save Lives and Money

The impacts of going uninsured are clear and severe. Many uninsured individuals postpone needed medical care which results in increased mortality and billions of dollars lost in productivity and increased expenses to the health care system. There also exists a significant sense of vulnerability to the potential loss of health insurance which is shared by tens of millions of other Americans who have managed to retain coverage.

Every American should have health care coverage, participation should be mandatory, and everyone should have basic benefits.

[~tangerine~]

Yeah... and I don't like what "it" is.

Try to catch up... that was at least two, three, or eleventy-six elections ago.

lol, catch up? I doubt it... well he does look smart when compared to Kindergarten kids, but i think the first graders will soon overtake him

[wanna be drummer]

Have you priced a policy lately? My employer paid policy costs me and my one child almost $400 a month. This is probably half of what an individual buying on their own would pay for the same coverage (if they could even get it). You obviously don't pay for your healthcare. Every one who needs medical attention should be given it. Any one who wants to educate themselves on prevention should have the information readily available through professionals. Get a clue.

Yes they should.

But I'm not paying for everyone. That's ridiculous.

R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y

[~tangerine~]

Yes they should.

But I'm not paying for everyone. That's ridiculous.

R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y

Read my above post. As the research states "getting everyone covered will save money and lives". So i'm really curious. How much do you pay for your plan?

[Electrophile]

So basically fuck the people who no matter how hard they work, can't afford health care? I can understand not wanting to pay for people who do nothing but suck up welfare and government benefits and do nothing to better their lives. However there are many more people in this country who are uninsured, who work 2 or 3 jobs but can't get health insurance. Should they be left to just suffer and die without the ability to seek medical care?

I work. I can't afford health insurance. I can't get it through my employer, I can't be put on my parents' policies (as a last resort) and I don't make enough money to afford a private policy. So what should I do if I need emergency medical care? When I had surgery on my leg 9 years ago, it cost my insurer over $25,000. If something like that happens again, how would I pay for it? I would literally be fucked. How many more people like me do you think live in this country?

No one in this country gives two shits about their fellow man. It's all NIMBY. People pay lip service to wanting to help others, but when they're asked to actually contribute to that help, they scream that they don't want to. They call it "socialist" and say they shouldn't have to help. It should be up to someone else. If everyone passes the buck off to someone else, NOTHING GETS DONE.

[~tangerine~]

So basically fuck the people who no matter how hard they work, can't afford health care? I can understand not wanting to pay for people who do nothing but suck up welfare and government benefits and do nothing to better their lives. However there are many more people in this country who are uninsured, who work 2 or 3 jobs but can't get health insurance. Should they be left to just suffer and die without the ability to seek medical care?

I work. I can't afford health insurance. I can't get it through my employer, I can't be put on my parents' policies (as a last resort) and I don't make enough money to afford a private policy. So what should I do if I need emergency medical care? When I had surgery on my leg 9 years ago, it cost my insurer over $25,000. If something like that happens again, how would I pay for it? I would literally be fucked. How many more people like me do you think live in this country?

No one in this country gives two shits about their fellow man. It's all NIMBY. People pay lip service to wanting to help others, but when they're asked to actually contribute to that help, they scream that they don't want to. They call it "socialist" and say they shouldn't have to help. It should be up to someone else. If everyone passes the buck off to someone else, NOTHING GETS DONE.

Great observations. Anyone who doesn't "understand" is either ignorant, naive, or as you mentioned, doesn't give a damn about other people. So much for the "believers in God"...you would expect them to be more caring souls. lol, hypocrites....

[~tangerine~]

Two quick additions: another big reason people have to claim bankruptcy (medical bills they can't pay)...and to wannabe....you are already paying for the uninsured with your high premiums (or whoever is paying your premiums)

[wanna be drummer]

Read my above post. As the research states "getting everyone covered will save money and lives". So i'm really curious. How much do you pay for your plan?

Save lives? Maybe.Health care quality will probably go down since it's free...as with most things.

Save money? I dont' believe it. You can only take so much from the rich. Obama wants to take back money from the rich to pay for this. Well, what happens if he needs more than what was thought? Where to go then? Middle class? We can't afford taxes. The rich? They won't take the hit, they'll pass it on to us.

I work. I can't afford health insurance. I can't get it through my employer, I can't be put on my parents' policies (as a last resort) and I don't make enough money to afford a private policy. So what should I do if I need emergency medical care? When I had surgery on my leg 9 years ago, it cost my insurer over $25,000. If something like that happens again, how would I pay for it? I would literally be fucked. How many more people like me do you think live in this country?

It cost them 25k because the medical field is fucked up right now and everything medical needs major reform right now. Once we get that fixed, prices will drop sharply and voila, more affordable health care for all.

Unfortunately, that probably won't happen anytime soon..

Great observations. Anyone who doesn't "understand" is either ignorant, naive, or as you mentioned, doesn't give a damn about other people. So much for the "believers in God"...you would expect them to be more caring souls. lol, hypocrites....

Are we talking about me here?How am I "naive" or ignorant? And do you really think I don't give a damn about other people? I'd like to think I'm a decent person. If a friend was ever in need, I'd lend him money wihtout even thinking about it. That being said, I could never force someone to pay for me. Yes, premiums go towards other people, but I am at least choosing my own plan with it.

And how do you think I get health insurance? My parents pay for it, I can't. School takes up most of my time so I can't really work that much. I talked about it with them over the summer. Chances are, they'll help me until I say stop, which might be next year, when i can actually work for above-minimum wage money. My apologies for putting school first.

[I have got a horsey]

It cost them 25k because the medical field is fucked up right now and everything medical needs major reform right now. Once we get that fixed, prices will drop sharply and voila, more affordable health care for all.

Unfortunately, that probably won't happen anytime soon..

What sort of reform do you think it needs and do you honestly think that will affect costs?

I don't really argue this point with you because our viewpoints on this topic are personal opinion, and I don't think they can be argued. I believe in universal health care, whereas, from your previous posts, you adopt the attitude that as America was founded on opportunity, nobody has a right to anything, and whatever they have or need they have to work for. That's fair enough, I don't argue with your opinion.

But I don't think you can straddle the issue by saying the answer to Electrophile's question is lower costs. The strain that the health system is going to be put under in the next 20 to 30 years time will be immense, and treament I'm afraid will favour those who can afford it, and I think you are committed, through your beliefs, to the notion that if Electrophile can't earn the 25 grand for surgery on her legs, then she's not going to have it.

[marolyn]

R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y

yes, and that responsibilty should be extended to ALL companies...they should be required by law to provide health insurance to ALL employees...

[Mary Hartman]

yes, and that responsibilty should be extended to ALL companies...they should be required by law to provide health insurance to ALL employees...

Teaching some teenagers rational thought is at times too complex.

It's like nailing jello to a tree

I feel a moose or twenty coming on.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Mary Hartman

[Pb Derigable]

yes, and that responsibilty should be extended to ALL companies...they should be required by law to provide health insurance to ALL employees...

So you didn't mind increasing min. wage.

Now you want all companies to be require to give health insurance.

You do realize what inflation is. Jimmy Carter knows it very well. He had the same Ideas as you do, as does Obama. If you do all of that, every thing you buy now, would cost twice as much by the time Obama is done. Who do you think is going to pay for all of this. The employer's?

Martha Stewart supports Obama tax hike, and says that anybody above 250,000, 200,000, 165,000, 150,000 in income, should "suck it up". It's kinda weird someone who already made their money, is so willing to tax others. But do you know What Martha will do once Obama tax hikes get levied, she will cut employees. Maybe she should "Suck it up"

Should we wipe the asses for all those too lazy to wipe their own ass. It's the same thing for health insurance.

[Medhb]

So you didn't mind increasing min. wage.

Now you want all companies to be require to give health insurance.

You do realize what inflation is. Jimmy Carter knows it very well. He had the same Ideas as you do, as does Obama. If you do all of that, every thing you buy now, would cost twice as much by the time Obama is done. Who do you think is going to pay for all of this. The employer's?

Martha Stewart supports Obama tax hike, and says that anybody above 250,000, 200,000, 165,000, 150,000 in income, should "suck it up". It's kinda weird someone who already made their money, is so willing to tax others. But do you know What Martha will do once Obama tax hikes get levied, she will cut employees. Maybe she should "Suck it up"

Should we wipe the asses for all those too lazy to wipe their own ass. It's the same thing for health insurance.

Why do you think she will cut employees? Every employees wages and health care costs are write offs for her. Cut the employees, cut the write offs, the more taxes she'll have to pay.

[Patrycja]

It kills me how people live in a society where they've benefited directly and indirectly from the selfless efforts of previous generations, from people who understood that being responsible citizens meant helping others, it meant knowing that voting and issues pertinent to the nation had more to do than just 'what's in it for me'. Please stop with the why should I help. It's because you were helped whether you realize it or not (and how sad if people don't), and when you help others it makes the whole better. I'm not an idealist, I get that there are many who take advantage of the system, but that doesn't justify a person not fulfilling their civic duty. Why do people point to their job or health coverage or education and say see it worked out great for me? The POINT is that it isn't working out for a whole hell of a lot more people. And anyone who says universal health care doesn't work obviously hasn't lived with it. As messed up as the Canadian system is right now, it's STILL functioning better than that of the US. The States spends more per capita on health care than any other country in the world and ranks, what 37th? Just ahead of that powerhouse Slovenia? But if that universal system doesn't work for some, check out what France is doing (a blend of private and government insurance - yet everyone has health care).

[wanna be drummer]

I'll answer you two later. I just stopped by to see who posted. I need to eat then go take a quiz.

Teaching some teenagers rational thought is at times too complex.

It's like nailing jello to a tree

I feel a moose or twenty coming on.

You're welcome

Edited October 31, 2008 by wanna be drummer

[~tangerine~]

Save lives? Maybe.Health care quality will probably go down since it's free...as with most things.

Save money? I dont' believe it. You can only take so much from the rich. Obama wants to take back money from the rich to pay for this. Well, what happens if he needs more than what was thought? Where to go then? Middle class? We can't afford taxes. The rich? They won't take the hit, they'll pass it on to us.

It cost them 25k because the medical field is fucked up right now and everything medical needs major reform right now. Once we get that fixed, prices will drop sharply and voila, more affordable health care for all.

Unfortunately, that probably won't happen anytime soon..

Are we talking about me here?How am I "naive" or ignorant? And do you really think I don't give a damn about other people? I'd like to think I'm a decent person. If a friend was ever in need, I'd lend him money wihtout even thinking about it. That being said, I could never force someone to pay for me. Yes, premiums go towards other people, but I am at least choosing my own plan with it.

And how do you think I get health insurance? My parents pay for it, I can't. School takes up most of my time so I can't really work that much. I talked about it with them over the summer. Chances are, they'll help me until I say stop, which might be next year, when i can actually work for above-minimum wage money. My apologies for putting school first.

I'm talking about ANYONE who thinks that it's okay for however many millions of people (the article i posted says) don't have coverage, which is certainly much greater today with the unemployment rate so high. I guess you blame all the people who have been and still are losing their jobs (because of the Economy under Bush that has been pulverized) on these people who were once hard working, now hard pressed to find work. How about all the employed people who don't get coverage even offered?

As i thought, "YOU" don't actually pay for your own healthcare. So you have no place to talk about "responsibility" because it's not yours, yet anyway. When you know how it feels for the millions of people who worry about this and "can't afford" healthcare, then you can act like it's their fault. For now, it's the fault of our country for not providing all it's citizens with healthcare. Not just in an emergency (as 1977 says) but when people are sick and need a doctor. If healthcare isn't afforded to people with chronic illness, the costs skyrocket when they finally get their "emergency" medical care. Maybe the system needs overhauling, but that doesn't change the need to provide everyone with a good healthcare plan.

IMO, quality of care should never be effected. If you have well trained professionals working in healthcare, you should have quality care provided. Dedicated people will do their best, that shouldn't and i doubt will change. Technology will continue to improve, doctors will continue to specialize in their field of interest, and people will continue to get cutting edge, research based medical treatment. If a doctor or nurse isn't giving good care, it's becaue they don't care.

As for Obama's plan, i don't think you understand, and i'm not going to explain it to you (as i interpret it). McCain's plan is NO PLAN. That is worse. While Obama spends time telling the American public what he wants to do for his country, McCain comes up with another "bash Obama" strategy. LOSER! Palin's plan would be LESS THAN ZERO.

So while it's nice that you would help a friend in need, what about the millions of other human beings who don't have help?

You will see when you are on your own how reality is. It's easy when you still live at home. I miss it sometimes, myself.

[Pb Derigable]

Why do you think she will cut employees? Every employees wages and health care costs are write offs for her. Cut the employees, cut the write offs, the more taxes she'll have to pay.

Oh, than why don't people hire million upon millions to use them as write offs. It's inefficient.

Obama propose a 3,000 tax break when you hire a new employee. So you get 3,000 off to hire a $30,000 employee. Wow that a saving of minus $27,000.

But if you cut the employees, you lessen the overhead costs. Cutting $30,000 employee will save you more than that write off that $30,000 employee. But yet, she owns nothing, she is a shareholder and shareholders don't directly benefit from tax write offs of the company.

Still, if write offs are so important, than why did the big three automakers cut 350,000 jobs in the last year.

Should we have federal Car insurance too. Why not we just give everyone a $35,000 check every year and tell them that just in case they can't find a job. Shit, if i get $35,000, ill look really hard for a job, I mean, why should I have Health Insurance, a car, a house, a computer, a big screen Tv, a girlfriend, when living in an apartment drinking beer all day sound good to me. Oh wait, i want to better myself by not relying on other people.

Im not against Universal Health care, Im just against it in a capitalist society. and if you are against capitalism, sell your computer,sell your car, sell your cell phone, sell everything you own that was invented in America. because without Americas capitalist society, we will still be lighting oil lamps.

[Electrophile]

It cost them 25k because the medical field is fucked up right now and everything medical needs major reform right now. Once we get that fixed, prices will drop sharply and voila, more affordable health care for all.

No, that's not why it cost them $25,000. I was in the hospital for a week. I had the orthopedic surgeon for the Chicago Blackhawks operating on my leg. I had a boatload of medicine. I was on a morphine drip at the hospital. I had a titanium plate and 6 screws put in my leg. I had to have not only a walker but crutches. They couldn't use a regular plaster cast, they had to use a fiberglass cast and that's more expensive.

When you add all that up......it adds up. My parents tried to go as inexpensive as possible during this week-long adventure, but a week in the hospital with major surgery (without it I wouldn't be able to walk) isn't cheap.

[spats]

No, that's not why it cost them $25,000. I was in the hospital for a week. I had the orthopedic surgeon for the Chicago Blackhawks operating on my leg. I had a boatload of medicine. I was on a morphine drip at the hospital. I had a titanium plate and 6 screws put in my leg. I had to have not only a walker but crutches. They couldn't use a regular plaster cast, they had to use a fiberglass cast and that's more expensive.

When you add all that up......it adds up. My parents tried to go as inexpensive as possible during this week-long adventure, but a week in the hospital with major surgery (without it I wouldn't be able to walk) isn't cheap.

How did you hurt you're leg?

[Electrophile]

Long story short, I was riding my bicycle and the front wheel hit a cut-out planter in the sidewalk and pitched me over the handlebars, smashing the bone right below the kneecap. The kneecap as a result was depressed and the bone was broken in a herringbone pattern. A regular set-and-cast wasn't an option, I needed a plate to cover both bones to facilitate healing because otherwise, it wouldn't heal properly.

[Mary Hartman]

I'll answer you two later. I just stopped by to see who posted. I need to eat then go take a quiz.

You're welcome

Thanks for proving my point, yet again.

Moron.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Mary Hartman

[Medhb]

Oh, than why don't people hire million upon millions to use them as write offs. It's inefficient.

Obama propose a 3,000 tax break when you hire a new employee. So you get 3,000 off to hire a $30,000 employee. Wow that a saving of minus $27,000.

But if you cut the employees, you lessen the overhead costs. Cutting $30,000 employee will save you more than that write off that $30,000 employee. But yet, she owns nothing, she is a shareholder and shareholders don't directly benefit from tax write offs of the company.

Still, if write offs are so important, than why did the big three automakers cut 350,000 jobs in the last year.

Should we have federal Car insurance too. Why not we just give everyone a $35,000 check every year and tell them that just in case they can't find a job. Shit, if i get $35,000, ill look really hard for a job, I mean, why should I have Health Insurance, a car, a house, a computer, a big screen Tv, a girlfriend, when living in an apartment drinking beer all day sound good to me. Oh wait, i want to better myself by not relying on other people.

Im not against Universal Health care, Im just against it in a capitalist society. and if you are against capitalism, sell your computer,sell your car, sell your cell phone, sell everything you own that was invented in America. because without Americas capitalist society, we will still be lighting oil lamps.

I just responded with a nice long post that got lost in cyberspace. So, to make it easier on both of us, could you please explain the logic you came up with to craft the response above? It seems to defy logic to me....maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks....

[Dzldoc]

Long story short, I was riding my bicycle and the front wheel hit a cut-out planter in the sidewalk and pitched me over the handlebars, smashing the bone right below the kneecap. The kneecap as a result was depressed and the bone was broken in a herringbone pattern. A regular set-and-cast wasn't an option, I needed a plate to cover both bones to facilitate healing because otherwise, it wouldn't heal properly.

The "NEW" Republican HealthCare Plan!

[Rock Action]

The "NEW" Republican HealthCare Plan!

I imagine there's a porta-potty in there somewhere...and perhaps an ice chest?

[Dzldoc]

I imagine there's a porta-potty in there somewhere...and perhaps an ice chest?