The Next President of the USA will be?

[wanna be drummer]

I voted for Bob Barr. Why do you care

[Mary Hartman]

I voted for Bob Barr. Why do you care

Did you say I wasted something? That explains it. You haven't a clue.

[wanna be drummer]

Did you say I wasted something? That explains it. You haven't a clue.

My vote wouldn't count anyways. Michigan is going Democrat no matter what so a vote for McCain accomplishes nothing. A vote for Third Party at least indicates that i want some real change in this country.

I'm going to bed. I'd suggest you actually look at Canada's health care structure before talking about it, since you clearly don't understand how it works...or apparently anything else...

Good night First Led Mary Hartman. You're one of the few people who've ever been here that I can honestly say I do not like Quite a feat since I've been here for 5 years

[Mary Hartman]

My vote wouldn't count anyways. Michigan is going Democrat no matter what so a vote for McCain accomplishes nothing. A vote for Third Party at least indicates that i want some real change in this country.

I'm going to bed. I'd suggest you actually look at Canada's health care structure before talking about it, since you clearly don't understand how it works...or apparently anything else...

Good night First Led Mary Hartman. You're one of the few people who've ever been here that I can honestly say I do not like Quite a feat since I've been here for 5 years

Good night wanna be. Nobody has the answer to this mess anyhow. It's not yours or my fault.

[I have got a horsey]

Health care is nothing like that. The government would be directly involved in the lives of the people. It would determine what medical treatment you get, what you're allowed to get, what you cannot. That is socialistic in and of itself. The government is directly in control of the system that one receives medical treatment.

It doesn't work like that in Australia

We have a UNiversal Health Care system here and yes there are good and bad things about it.

The good things are that any medical or dental care you need is paid for by the Government and doesn't cost you a cent if you have a social security health care card. If you don't have a health care card then 1% of your yearly tax goes towards the medicare levy.

The bad side of it is Government hospitals are under-staffed and have a shortage of beds. And you can wait a long time for elective surgeries. For example a friend of mine had a couple of ingrowing finger nails that the doctor suggested he get removed by surgery. If he had it done at a public hospital he probably would've been on a waiting list for 12 to 18 months.

The government doesn't control or dictate which medical practictioner you see, that's nonsense.

Basically it works like this:

All doctors and specialists have a part of their fee paid by the government. Now some doctors do a thing called "bulk billing" which means you don't have to pay any money to visit them, they get their money off the government. Other doctors charge you $50 for a visit, for which the Government will give you back $30. Some doctors will charge normal people the fee, but will bulk bill for people who have a health care card (which is mostly pensioners, unemployed etc). People who have a health care card also get cheap medications. So instead of paying $16 for a packet of antiobiotics from the chemist, they'll pay $3.

It's basically up to the doctor and their policies that decides if you get charged or not. Some doctors have a fee, others do not. There is choice and availability.

You can choose to pay and go private or you can choose to go public. You have the freedom to see whoever you want.

Yes I mean the Holy Spirit Private Hospital is nice with good food and private rooms and cable TV and all that jazz, and a good staff, but public hospitals do the same job just without the nice touch. It's like the difference between First Class and Coach. One is nice than the other but both get to the destination at the same time.

I've used the public hospital system on a few occasions and their level of care is good, I have no problems with it

I just don't see why in America the idea of public health care is treated with great horror and suspicion.

Like at the moment, I don't have any personal health insurance. And in Australia health insurance doesn't come with your job. At the moment I don't really want to pay a huge bill to go to a private dentist so I'll probably go to a government dentist. What would I do in America?

[SunChild]

Abortion on demand? Jesus. First of all, anyone who supports a woman's right to choose does not support "abortion on demand". There's a difference between thinking women should have the choice to terminate and setting up abortion clinics on every corner and in every school.

If you're going to disagree with something, at least know what the hell you're talking about first.

Bravo, thank you.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but, yes I want abortion on demand. Meaining, if a woman or girl wants to end an unwanted pregnancy it's nobody's damned business but hers and her doctor's. Simple as that. She asks for an abortion from her doctor, and the doctor performs the procedure. If that's "abortion on demand" so be it.

The day men and boys have to get a note from a judge before they can have sexual intercourse is the day you can deny women and girls the right to choose. Otherwise you anti-choice people are just talking sexist BS.

[marolyn]

damn...you guys were busy last night

Like at the moment, I don't have any personal health insurance. And in Australia health insurance doesn't come with your job. At the moment I don't really want to pay a huge bill to go to a private dentist so I'll probably go to a government dentist. What would I do in America?

you would be fucked and have to live with the rotten tooth...i recall a news story from a few years ago where a young child died when her tooth infection spread into her brain because her parents did not have the money to take her to a dentist...

[SunChild]

The government would control the means with which you are able to access health care.

Socialistic. That's all I'm saying. What don't you get?

The government controls the means with which we access police and fire fighters, too.

Would you prefer to also turn those services into commodities that you are able to access only if you have insurance?

Right now your access to health care is being controlled by people who are such scum they do everything in their power to maximize the profits they make off of you dying of cancer, say. That's a preferable system, to you? Why?

Answer right here --->

[JimmyPage1977]

It doesn't work like that in Australia

We have a UNiversal Health Care system here and yes there are good and bad things about it.

The good things are that any medical or dental care you need is paid for by the Government and doesn't cost you a cent if you have a social security health care card. If you don't have a health care card then 1% of your yearly tax goes towards the medicare levy.

The bad side of it is Government hospitals are under-staffed and have a shortage of beds. And you can wait a long time for elective surgeries. For example a friend of mine had a couple of ingrowing finger nails that the doctor suggested he get removed by surgery. If he had it done at a public hospital he probably would've been on a waiting list for 12 to 18 months.

The government doesn't control or dictate which medical practictioner you see, that's nonsense.

Basically it works like this:

All doctors and specialists have a part of their fee paid by the government. Now some doctors do a thing called "bulk billing" which means you don't have to pay any money to visit them, they get their money off the government. Other doctors charge you $50 for a visit, for which the Government will give you back $30. Some doctors will charge normal people the fee, but will bulk bill for people who have a health care card (which is mostly pensioners, unemployed etc). People who have a health care card also get cheap medications. So instead of paying $16 for a packet of antiobiotics from the chemist, they'll pay $3.

It's basically up to the doctor and their policies that decides if you get charged or not. Some doctors have a fee, others do not. There is choice and availability.

You can choose to pay and go private or you can choose to go public. You have the freedom to see whoever you want.

Yes I mean the Holy Spirit Private Hospital is nice with good food and private rooms and cable TV and all that jazz, and a good staff, but public hospitals do the same job just without the nice touch. It's like the difference between First Class and Coach. One is nice than the other but both get to the destination at the same time.

I've used the public hospital system on a few occasions and their level of care is good, I have no problems with it

I just don't see why in America the idea of public health care is treated with great horror and suspicion.

Like at the moment, I don't have any personal health insurance. And in Australia health insurance doesn't come with your job. At the moment I don't really want to pay a huge bill to go to a private dentist so I'll probably go to a government dentist. What would I do in America?

You would go to a clinic, that charges you based on your income. There are many public health services in place in America and the Government does spend millions on providing health care to the poor. If you think that you are simply out of luck, it shows how little you actually know about America. Most Universities provide reduced rate or free dental work to train "student dentists", as well.

[Medhb]

I dig what you're saying, Suz.

Biggest problem anyone on the "right" side has to deal with is the 8 years of that fucking idiot Bush. Now everyone is convinced that any Republican is automatically a dickhead.

The false prejudices run on BOTH sides of this campaign. I'm sick of this shit.

That's one of the reasons I barely post anymore. We are barely discussing topics yet there is a lot of name calling going around. I've (rightly or wrongly) attributed it to one troll whose posting seemed to be the beginning of the downfall of a good natured discussion.

[Medhb]

I've been advocating universal health care for children, but then you're on your own. You choose your health insurance, your policy, etc. Lessen taxes overall to allow people to afford it, but which will cause more people to insure themselves and thus, lower prices. Lower any and all tariffs on foreign drugs and medicine, to increase competition and thus lower prices, especially for senior citizens. Oh, and we need to seriously reduce all the bullshit malpractice suits that are destroying the doctoral field

And you?

I agree with that approach wannabe. I am not concerned for myself, I love my health benefits. I am concerned for others who don't have any health benefits and your approach seems to address this.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of Obama's vs. McCain's is that under Obamas plan I will get to keep the plan I am currently very pleased with. Under McCains plan I will lose that but get a $5,000 tax cut to go out and purchase my own??

See....$5,000 isn't going to get me a plan even half as good as the one I have. Currently I pay $3,300 per year and my employer picks up the rest (I don't have that number) This covers both my husband and myself.

I have a seperate dental plan (which is paid for as above) and a discount prescription plan.

[59LesPaul]

The government would control the means with which you are able to access health care.

The government "controlling" anything is an idea I'm not comfortable with at all.

[Rock Action]

That's one of the reasons I barely post anymore. We are barely discussing topics yet there is a lot of name calling going around. I've (rightly or wrongly) attributed it to one troll whose posting seemed to be the beginning of the downfall of a good natured discussion.

Yeah, the hatred level in this thread is pretty nasty. I don't want to get into specifics, but there are a few people here that really need to do some soul searching, and take the time to realize that just because they disagree, doesn't mean that they have to spit venom at everyone else.

Now watch the reactions. These aforementioned people will be the ones slagging me for this post.

[bigstickbonzo]

I spit hot fire..

[59LesPaul]

Now watch the reactions. These aforementioned people will be the ones slagging me for this post.

Fuck you.

[Rock Action]

Fuck you.

One down, 75 to go!

[The Rover]

Obama thinks the economy goes from the ground up, but shit rolls down hill.

The Rich (Bankers, Investment Bankers, etc) have screwd the country from the Top Down....

Do, I can see how the Obama Nation wants to screw what's left of the country, from the Bottom up....

What's Good for Goose....

Well, forget that ... The Goose is already Cooked ! Along with the Books!!

Yeah Baby!!

[wanna be drummer]

The government controls the means with which we access police and fire fighters, too.

Would you prefer to also turn those services into commodities that you are able to access only if you have insurance?

Yeah, that's a good comparison

They're completely different. Firefighters protect everyone from fires, not just the people who's home or business or what have you is on fire. They are essential in keeping the peace. Policeman provide one of the fundamental reasons for even having government in the first place: They protect us from those that would infringe upon on our rights. Health care is not a right, but a responsibility.

Oh, and police business can be privatized just like anything else. Ever hear of bodyguards? What about bounty hunters? Yeah, they aren't all owned by the government

And they're usually better than waiting for cops too, who woulda thought?!?

Right now your access to health care is being controlled by people who are such scum they do everything in their power to maximize the profits they make off of you dying of cancer, say. That's a preferable system, to you? Why?

We need a system that prevents shitholes do things like take a $400,000 spa trip after being awarded federal money (stupid move again government) to protect their company.

Answer right here --->

What?

Maybe you'll answer me, what is your solution

[I have got a horsey]

If you think that you are simply out of luck, it shows how little you actually know about America. Most Universities provide reduced rate or free dental work to train "student dentists", as well.

I have never claimed to know much about the American health care system, and I asked that question to be genuinely informed. I don't critique or condemn the American health care system, I merely ask the question why are a lot of Americans so horrified when a public health care system is mentioned...

So please...ease up on the aggressive attitude, it's unecessary.

Try and direct your aggression into areas where you can at least actually win a trophy or something

[Pb Derigable]

I still find funny how these loons bring out the definition and say this isn't socialism.

What Barrack Obama wants to do isn't capitalism. So we can bring out the dictonary and cry, but the fact is, Obama is not a capiltist. No capitist would ever think growing the economny starts at the bottom. There is not a single incident in which an economny has grown from the bottom up.

If that was true what Obama wants to do, Cuba would be a major player in the world market. Mexico would be so powerful that American would be jumping the border to get into mexico for jobs.

So i came a conclusion that is undeniable, Obama is not a capitalist. You can't argue with that. So then what is he. Wanna be is right that these are socialist views, from a guy who has numerous socialist friends who was big in his life.

[shnflacwav]

I claim to know much about America, and I critique or condemn the American system. Why are a lot of Americans so horrified.

So please...Try and direct your aggression into areas where you can actually win me as a trophy or something.

I think the US dental insurance needs more overhaul than the medical insurance does.

[marolyn]

I think the US dental insurance needs more overhaul than the medical insurance does.

obviously, we just need to open more universities so that everyone who can not afford a dentist will have access to free/reduced treatment...

[PennyLane]

obviously, we just need to open more universities so that everyone who can not afford a dentist will have access to free/reduced treatment...

The universities in the States who have a dental school offer check ups, cleaning, crowns, etc. for a fee and they are very good.

[Suz]

Wasn't my joke.

Sorry about that, my mistake.

[Suz]

Yeah, the hatred level in this thread is pretty nasty. I don't want to get into specifics, but there are a few people here that really need to do some soul searching, and take the time to realize that just because they disagree, doesn't mean that they have to spit venom at everyone else.

Now watch the reactions. These aforementioned people will be the ones slagging me for this post.

No worries. I can handle all the baby killin' terrorists at once! How's that for a slag? Was it good for you?