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Mountain Hopper

Marijuana legalization

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4 hours ago, kipper said:

i dont believe there is such a thing as a addictive personality just people who willfully indulge themselves in risky behavior. Its not like was born yesterday but I have heard all of the excused by addicts. Legalizing drugs is only legalizing addicts, it helps nobody.

But of course, 40 years of accepted science be damned ! I will immediately notify the APA and let them know Kipper does not believe in addictive personality disorders. I am sure they will put out a new version of the DSM to reflect this ASAP. Typically, it would be called the DSM-V TR but since you have all the answers they will surely refer to it as the DSM-V KR for Kipper Revised.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, kipper said:

i dont believe there is such a thing as a addictive personality just people who willfully indulge themselves in risky behavior. Its not like was born yesterday but I have heard all of the excused by addicts. Legalizing drugs is only legalizing addicts, it helps nobody.

Kipper, baby, let me enlighten you.

I have an addictive personality.

Whatever it is, my impulse/compulsion/whatever is to keep going and ignore the obvious cost (addiction). Not nearly as bad as it once was. In fact, I don't gamble or smoke ciggy's at all now. Haven't for many years. Gambling - I don't have the money, and have a wife who anchors me somewhat, but back in the day, pokies (slot machines at the pub) ate an embarrassing amount of money, and my 1 trip to the states I went to Vegas. What a nightmare I still don't even think about or talk about. Nearly cost me my best mate (probably should have). Ciggy's - when my wife was preggers with our first, they went. I struggled to give up for 5 years - couldn't (kept going back to them) but what enabled me was I wasn't going to be "that Dad" - the smoker. Fuck that - so it was not hard at that time, but impossible for me to stop beforehand. And BELIEVE ME I wanted to. For YEARS.

I could not moderately gamble, drink, smoke (ciggy's and weed) when I was a younger man. The guys I ran with all loved to drink/smoke whatever, but I found they could easily turn it off and stop once they had spent their allotted money, or had enough to drink. I still have an incredible compulsion to keep drinking once I crack one or 2 beers. Last year I would swear to myself, just a couple. I'd polish off 10 or 12 and often not remember the exact count, or of what I'd been doing for the night (or going to bed). I found it impossible to stop and hated it. It was causing a few concerns family wise, but I persisted.

THAT is addiction Kippers, knowing what you are doing is shit, hating doing it, but loving it in that moment, and needing to. And it fucks you up pretty hard. I don't see it as weakness in the sense I should just man up and have 3 drinks and stop. I essentially am not able to do that. I know I won't stop, but that drink, I just want to have that beer. SO nice....

So now I'm off the booze. It's tough even now. I won't lapse, I have done a year dry twice in the last decade, and this time I'm not touching a drink unless someone else has one. (Wife has one a day, so that's my default limit now). But it took me 3 months to build up to being able to do that, and absolutely hammering myself for December in prep (putting away 2 or 3 cases a week by December 31). Its a ritual I need to do to help me get past the stopping.

I only say all of this for one reason - to give you a perspective from someone else - first hand - that is obviously a different view/reality than your own. This is just my reality. I hope you can consider this is actually a thing for some of us.

So while you may not believe there is such a thing as an addictive personality, I, my chubby little forum companion, live it.

Edited by rm2551

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rm2551 said:

Kipper, baby, let me enlighten you.

I have an addictive personality.

Whatever it is, my impulse/compulsion/whatever is to keep going and ignore the obvious cost (addiction). Not nearly as bad as it once was. In fact, I don't gamble or smoke ciggy's at all now. Haven't for many years. Gambling - I don't have the money, and have a wife who anchors me somewhat, but back in the day, pokies (slot machines at the pub) ate an embarrassing amount of money, and my 1 trip to the states I went to Vegas. What a nightmare I still don't even think about or talk about. Nearly cost me my best mate (probably should have). Ciggy's - when my wife was preggers with our first, they went. I struggled to give up for 5 years - couldn't (kept going back to them) but what enabled me was I wasn't going to be "that Dad" - the smoker. Fuck that - so it was not hard at that time, but impossible for me to stop beforehand. And BELIEVE ME I wanted to. For YEARS.

I could not moderately gamble, drink, smoke (ciggy's and weed) when I was a younger man. The guys I ran with all loved to drink/smoke whatever, but I found they could easily turn it off and stop once they had spent their allotted money, or had enough to drink. I still have an incredible compulsion to keep drinking once I crack one or 2 beers. Last year I would swear to myself, just a couple. I'd polish off 10 or 12 and often not remember the exact count, or of what I'd been doing for the night (or going to bed). I found it impossible to stop and hated it. It was causing a few concerns family wise, but I persisted.

THAT is addiction Kippers, knowing what you are doing is shit, hating doing it, but loving it in that moment, and needing to. And it fucks you up pretty hard. I don't see it as weakness in the sense I should just man up and have 3 drinks and stop. I essentially am not able to do that. I know I won't stop, but that drink, I just want to have that beer. SO nice....

So now I'm off the booze. It's tough even now. I won't lapse, I have done a year dry twice in the last decade, and this time I'm not touching a drink unless someone else has one. (Wife has one a day, so that's my default limit now). But it took me 3 months to build up to being able to do that, and absolutely hammering myself for December in prep (putting away 2 or 3 cases a week by December 31). Its a ritual I need to do to help me get past the stopping.

I only say all of this for one reason - to give you a perspective from someone else - first hand - that is obviously a different view/reality than your own. This is just my reality. I hope you can consider this is actually a thing for some of us.

So while you may not believe there is such a thing as an addictive personality, I, my chubby little forum companion, live it.

:goodpost: A wonderful insight right there. Excellently put rm and Kipper - ingest and learn?

I can write from the other perspective. I don't have an addictive personality. I enjoy smoking weed and hash. I don't smoke ciggies. I never take any other drugs legal or otherwise, I can't recall the last time I even took a pain killer.

I enjoy wine but don't drink beer or spirits. I know my limit and very, very rarely have a hangover. Average Friday? 2 or 3 joints ( shared) and a bottle and a bit of wine. Never drink whilst watching TV and always make sure I am washed, teeth cleaned before bed. 

I imbibe from Friday - Sunday and maybe a Wednesday. Dry days the rest. When we go golfing in Europe for 5 days we never take weed with us or even think about it when we are there. No cold Turkey for us. Pot addictive???? i think not. Look at the ciggie smokers outside the airport. The look of blind panic as they can't have a smoke for 3 hours. Tobacco addictive???? I think so. 

 

Edited by chillumpuffer

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12 hours ago, rm2551 said:

Kipper, baby, let me enlighten you.

I have an addictive personality.

Whatever it is, my impulse/compulsion/whatever is to keep going and ignore the obvious cost (addiction). Not nearly as bad as it once was. In fact, I don't gamble or smoke ciggy's at all now. Haven't for many years. Gambling - I don't have the money, and have a wife who anchors me somewhat, but back in the day, pokies (slot machines at the pub) ate an embarrassing amount of money, and my 1 trip to the states I went to Vegas. What a nightmare I still don't even think about or talk about. Nearly cost me my best mate (probably should have). Ciggy's - when my wife was preggers with our first, they went. I struggled to give up for 5 years - couldn't (kept going back to them) but what enabled me was I wasn't going to be "that Dad" - the smoker. Fuck that - so it was not hard at that time, but impossible for me to stop beforehand. And BELIEVE ME I wanted to. For YEARS.

I could not moderately gamble, drink, smoke (ciggy's and weed) when I was a younger man. The guys I ran with all loved to drink/smoke whatever, but I found they could easily turn it off and stop once they had spent their allotted money, or had enough to drink. I still have an incredible compulsion to keep drinking once I crack one or 2 beers. Last year I would swear to myself, just a couple. I'd polish off 10 or 12 and often not remember the exact count, or of what I'd been doing for the night (or going to bed). I found it impossible to stop and hated it. It was causing a few concerns family wise, but I persisted.

THAT is addiction Kippers, knowing what you are doing is shit, hating doing it, but loving it in that moment, and needing to. And it fucks you up pretty hard. I don't see it as weakness in the sense I should just man up and have 3 drinks and stop. I essentially am not able to do that. I know I won't stop, but that drink, I just want to have that beer. SO nice....

So now I'm off the booze. It's tough even now. I won't lapse, I have done a year dry twice in the last decade, and this time I'm not touching a drink unless someone else has one. (Wife has one a day, so that's my default limit now). But it took me 3 months to build up to being able to do that, and absolutely hammering myself for December in prep (putting away 2 or 3 cases a week by December 31). Its a ritual I need to do to help me get past the stopping.

I only say all of this for one reason - to give you a perspective from someone else - first hand - that is obviously a different view/reality than your own. This is just my reality. I hope you can consider this is actually a thing for some of us.

So while you may not believe there is such a thing as an addictive personality, I, my chubby little forum companion, live it.

Yes I am a little chubby but that is my own fault. To much junk food and not enough exercise but I have willed myself to be in better shape before and I know I can again. But it isnt addiction, it is just bad choices.

Im sorry you feel that it was addiction that were your problems, but that is part of the problem if it means blaming something other than willpower. Dont take this wrong, but pedophiles and rapist claim they are addicted to and we cant excuse there choices they make.

Personally I think the science want to make people believe they are addicted because they make money off of the cycle of indulgence.  We can agree to disagree and I wish you the best of luck, but my sometimes poor eating and excercise habits are my own fault.

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on the news it said that people who use marijana in states where it is now legal are still breaking federal laws in the USA and be arrested and even lose their right to own guns. So I guess these new laws aren't all cracked up to be what people were being sold by the pro drug lobby.

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34 minutes ago, kipper said:

on the news it said that people who use marijana in states where it is now legal are still breaking federal laws in the USA and be arrested and even lose their right to own guns. So I guess these new laws aren't all cracked up to be what people were being sold by the pro drug lobby.

I literally relish the day Sessions decides to go balls deep on this and sends federal agents to bust a dispensary in Cali. The look on Sessions and Trump's face when they find out the whole cadre of Feds are cooling their heels in a local jail cell will be priceless.

All the Fed has are the small cohort of federal agents (FBI & ATF) at their disposal. The entire field staff of both agencies is not anywhere near the size of the LA County Police Dept. The Fed cannot use military forces or personnel within the US as that would violate the constitution. However, the states can call up the National Guard to deny federal access. Of course the President could try and place the NG under federal control but that would be tantamount to martial law. You really think the executive would be that insanely stupid to do a damn thing against something with a 68% approval of the national citizenry? Even someone as moronically stupid and narcissistic as Trump would be stopped by his own people.

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31 minutes ago, IpMan said:

I literally relish the day Sessions decides to go balls deep on this and sends federal agents to bust a dispensary in Cali. The look on Sessions and Trump's face when they find out the whole cadre of Feds are cooling their heels in a local jail cell will be priceless.

All the Fed has are the small cohort of federal agents (FBI & ATF) at their disposal. The entire field staff of both agencies is not anywhere near the size of the LA County Police Dept. The Fed cannot use military forces or personnel within the US as that would violate the constitution. However, the states can call up the National Guard to deny federal access. Of course the President could try and place the NG under federal control but that would be tantamount to martial law. You really think the executive would be that insanely stupid to do a damn thing against something with a 68% approval of the national citizenry? Even someone as moronically stupid and narcissistic as Trump would be stopped by his own people.

Send in federal agents? They could just cut off federal funds. Cali receives more federal money than any other state.

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6 minutes ago, cryingbluerain said:

Send in federal agents? They could just cut off federal funds. Cali receives more federal money than any other state.

That is wrong. California is ranked #43 out of the 50 states in federal aid received. It's actually the Trump states that suck the Federal teat the most while giving the least.

https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/

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20180108_162137.thumb.jpg.6835703a382ab5cb55c45abc94d1fafd.jpg

Maybe if this had happened when I was younger I would be more enthused. Not that I am not happy...it's about time, I say. 

But I just don't smoke or do any drugs as much as I did twenty or thirty years ago. These days I might smoke once a week, once a month, or even go an entire year without smoking a joint. And even when I did back in the days of it being illegal, I never had a problem finding marijuana or whatever substance I was searching. 

Mr. Orange might have had problems procuring pot in the '80s but not me.

I just hope CP lives to see it legalized in ol' Blighty.

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3 hours ago, cryingbluerain said:

Send in federal agents? They could just cut off federal funds. Cali receives more federal money than any other state.

wow dude, you really are high. California contributes far, far, FAR more money to the fed than the other way around. Let me put it this way, if Cali were to secede and become its own nation it would flourish way beyond where it currently is while the US would suffer horribly and likely collapse from an economic standpoint. As I said before The US losing that sweet California money would be akin to Canada losing that sweet Alberta money. In either case, both nations would collapse as a result.

As Strider said, it is the red states which are the massive welfare queens of the nation whereas the blue states contribute far more to the Fed than the Fed contributes to them.

Fiscal conservative...HA! Talk about an oxymoron.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Strider said:

That is wrong.

Speaking in absolute terms it is quite true.

http://www.lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/131

4 hours ago, IpMan said:

wow dude, you really are high. California contributes far, far, FAR more money to the fed than the other way around. Let me put it this way, if Cali were to secede and become its own nation it would flourish way beyond where it currently is while the US would suffer horribly and likely collapse from an economic standpoint. As I said before The US losing that sweet California money would be akin to Canada losing that sweet Alberta money. In either case, both nations would collapse as a result.

As Strider said, it is the red states which are the massive welfare queens of the nation whereas the blue states contribute far more to the Fed than the Fed contributes to them.

Fiscal conservative...HA! Talk about an oxymoron.

 

Better put down the bong IpMan. Cali isn't the financial utopia you claim. Let's break it down. As recently as 2014 it had the second lowest bond rating of any state, only beating out basket case Illinois. The middle class is fleeing the state (http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2016/02/11/californians_are_voting_with_their_feet_102004.html)
 as the cost of living  is through the roof.  It also has the highest poverty rate in the nation. http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/

And speaking of welfare, with 12% of the US population, California has one-third of the nation’s welfare recipients. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-welfare-capital-of-the-us-2012jul28-htmlstory.html

Most of the supposed economic miracle in California over the recent years has come from one industry - a few dozen Silicon Valley tech firms (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.)  But the state is more of a banana republic of high tech when you look at per capita GDP as adjusted for cost of living.  http://riderrants.blogspot.com/2016/07/updated-2015-figures-ca-per-capita-gdp.html

 

Edit: sorry for any broken links, don't have time to fix those right now.

 

 

 

 

Edited by cryingbluerain

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6 hours ago, Strider said:

20180108_162137.thumb.jpg.6835703a382ab5cb55c45abc94d1fafd.jpg

Maybe if this had happened when I was younger I would be more enthused. Not that I am not happy...it's about time, I say. 

But I just don't smoke or do any drugs as much as I did twenty or thirty years ago. These days I might smoke once a week, once a month, or even go an entire year without smoking a joint. And even when I did back in the days of it being illegal, I never had a problem finding marijuana or whatever substance I was searching. 

Mr. Orange might have had problems procuring pot in the '80s but not me.

I just hope CP lives to see it legalized in ol' Blighty.

:hysterical: No fucking chance. It will be legal in Saudi Arabia before it is here.

Isn't California the 5th biggest economy in the world?

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Yeah, yeah, my rather big, stupid nobody's mouth again.

I don't think substances that have no purpose for persons functioning are any good.

Some goes for many medications . Unless you truly have something very serious(take very good care who you consult) don't take it, unfortunately it's poison in many ways, the side effects, it's a relief to know they haven't hurt you much at all. A quite happy feeling yeah.

Live a healthy, happy life in good connection with other humans.

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8 hours ago, cryingbluerain said:

Speaking in absolute terms it is quite true.

http://www.lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/131

 

Better put down the bong IpMan. Cali isn't the financial utopia you claim. Let's break it down. As recently as 2014 it had the second lowest bond rating of any state, only beating out basket case Illinois. The middle class is fleeing the state (http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2016/02/11/californians_are_voting_with_their_feet_102004.html)
 as the cost of living  is through the roof.  It also has the highest poverty rate in the nation. http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/

And speaking of welfare, with 12% of the US population, California has one-third of the nation’s welfare recipients. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-welfare-capital-of-the-us-2012jul28-htmlstory.html

Most of the supposed economic miracle in California over the recent years has come from one industry - a few dozen Silicon Valley tech firms (Apple, Google, Facebook, etc.)  But the state is more of a banana republic of high tech when you look at per capita GDP as adjusted for cost of living.  http://riderrants.blogspot.com/2016/07/updated-2015-figures-ca-per-capita-gdp.html

 

Edit: sorry for any broken links, don't have time to fix those right now.

 

 

 

 

I believe you did not read my post because if you did, you would not have wasted your time posting information irrelevant to my point.

What you say and what you posted does not relate to my argument in any way, however I would like it if you would please explain why you posted irrelevant info and then claim it is I who is high.

My point, and only point, is that:

1. California is the 7th largest economy in the world. 2. California pays more money to the federal government than the federal government pays to California. 3. Without California's financial contribution to the federal government, the nations economy would likely collapse. 4. If California was its own nation and was no longer paying money to the Fed it would be in a much, much better financial situation. Everything I posted is both provable and indisputable yet you chose to respond with completely irrelevant info regarding how much the state of California doles out to its citizenry on the welfare rolls (the fed does not pay these benefits, California does).

So, as to the financial health and prosperity of the STATE it is indeed doing extremely well. What the state pays to citizens is a completely different issue. This is why I mentioned in an earlier post why the Fed needs to stay out of the business of social engineering and leave social issues such as weed to the states. If you live in a state like California, NY, WA, etc. you pay much higher state and property taxes, however you also get much more benefits, services, social safety nets, less expensive and much, much better education. If you live in say Kansas you pay significantly less in state and property taxes, unfortunately the tradeoff is shitty schools, shitty or non-existent benefits, little services. So, if a person is retired and no longer raising children, Kansas or Arizona are much better economic options. If you are raising children and need better, less expensive education, CA, NY, WA are the better economic bets because though taxes are higher, the benefit of service and quality of services makes up for it for those who take advantage of such.

 

The end result is the Fed can bluster and crow all they want but at the end of the day, screwing with California would be akin to a gold digger kicking her sugar daddy in the balls and fucking his broke, shitheel brother. She may be proud of her defiance in the moment, but she will be feeling the hunger pangs and experiencing the opportunities of homeless street life very soon as a result of her impetious and ill conceived actions.

Legal weed is here, legal weed will stay. 

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My brother lives in Denver and the legalization of marijuana there has been fantastic for the economy. Not a panacea, for sure, but a great boost. 

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1 hour ago, EaglesOfOneNest said:

My brother lives in Denver and the legalization of marijuana there has been fantastic for the economy. Not a panacea, for sure, but a great boost. 

Never a more true word for the Legalisation of Cannabis. The UK is the largest consumers of the drug in Europe. All of it bought Illegally and on the black market. How long before the penny drops that the UK economy is missing out on millions of pounds in tax revenues? The Police have pressured successive Governments on the complete waste of resources to arrest,charge and prosecute cannabis offenders. This Conservative Government is cutting money to every department in their austerity measures whilst us smokers carry on regardless. A total disgrace. Our treasured Health Service is creaking under the strain and this Government continually under invests.There are no beds. Patients are told to go away or are left on stretchers in corridors for hours. Hospitals seriously under staffed and the Tories don't give two fucks. They want it like this. It encourages private health insurance, a luxury of the wealthy. Do you know they pay "private" companies to do work of the NHS? Madness. Are we the people who are on drugs and losing it?

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11 minutes ago, chillumpuffer said:

Never a more true word for the Legalisation of Cannabis. The UK is the largest consumers of the drug in Europe. All of it bought Illegally and on the black market. How long before the penny drops that the UK economy is missing out on millions of pounds in tax revenues? The Police have pressured successive Governments on the complete waste of resources to arrest,charge and prosecute cannabis offenders. This Conservative Government is cutting money to every department in their austerity measures whilst us smokers carry on regardless. A total disgrace. Our treasured Health Service is creaking under the strain and this Government continually under invests.There are no beds. Patients are told to go away or are left on stretchers in corridors for hours. Hospitals seriously under staffed and the Tories don't give two fucks. They want it like this. It encourages private health insurance, a luxury of the wealthy. Do you know they pay "private" companies to do work of the NHS? Madness. Are we the people who are on drugs and losing it?

You know Chill, with the whole economic loss Brexit will bring to the UK along with ongoing challenges, the MP's may have no choice but to legalize weed in an effort to drum up revenue.

I would hate that weed finally becomes legal due to dire straits but it is something that maybe a positive can come from so many negatives.

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31 minutes ago, IpMan said:

You know Chill, with the whole economic loss Brexit will bring to the UK along with ongoing challenges, the MP's may have no choice but to legalize weed in an effort to drum up revenue.

I would hate that weed finally becomes legal due to dire straits but it is something that maybe a positive can come from so many negatives.

Don't get me started on the disaster that is Brexit man

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1 hour ago, chillumpuffer said:

Never a more true word for the Legalisation of Cannabis. The UK is the largest consumers of the drug in Europe. All of it bought Illegally and on the black market. How long before the penny drops that the UK economy is missing out on millions of pounds in tax revenues? The Police have pressured successive Governments on the complete waste of resources to arrest,charge and prosecute cannabis offenders. This Conservative Government is cutting money to every department in their austerity measures whilst us smokers carry on regardless. A total disgrace. Our treasured Health Service is creaking under the strain and this Government continually under invests.There are no beds. Patients are told to go away or are left on stretchers in corridors for hours. Hospitals seriously under staffed and the Tories don't give two fucks. They want it like this. It encourages private health insurance, a luxury of the wealthy. Do you know they pay "private" companies to do work of the NHS? Madness. Are we the people who are on drugs and losing it?

Not sure if opioids are as big an issue in the UK as in the US, but it has been proven that in states where medical and recreation MJ has been legalized, opioid use / abuse has dropped sharply. 

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13 hours ago, chillumpuffer said:

Don't get me started on the disaster that is Brexit man

over here we heard it was a good thing.

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On 1/11/2018 at 1:37 AM, kipper said:

over here we heard it was a good thing.

Only from our Doofus-in-Chief in DC...

 

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35 minutes ago, ForEvermore said:

Only from our Doofus-in-Chief in DC...

 

he is doing a good job and he will be around for another 7 years so it will only get better still

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:10 PM, EaglesOfOneNest said:

Not sure if opioids are as big an issue in the UK as in the US, but it has been proven that in states where medical and recreation MJ has been legalized, opioid use / abuse has dropped sharply. 

That's fantastic, 'EaglesOfOneNest'! Thank you. It kind of also discounts MJ as being the gateway drug.

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9 hours ago, apantherfrommd said:

That's fantastic, 'EaglesOfOneNest'! Thank you. It kind of also discounts MJ as being the gateway drug.

Yeah, I mean, just being honest, I am a regular partaker of MJ and have never had the desire to try anything else. Of course, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", hehe. Also, while it can be difficult to extrapolate one country's results to another (due to cultural norms, population size and composition, etc), one only needs to look at Portugal as a positive example of what happens when all drugs are decriminalized. 

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