Osama bin Laden DEAD

[BIGDAN]

The real difference between us is I don't indulge myself in pointless, persistent bashing of other people's countries on the Led Zeppelin forum. I know all too well when America has fallen short of the principles upon which it was founded, yet even so I still believe in those principles. You don't seem to believe in anything - that's your perogative - but it's not my problem. Electrophile has stood up and said

what she believes in, ironically revealing she rather similarly seems not to believe in anything at all.

Hi Steve,

At last we agree on something, you got me there, I believe not in Politicians who all speak through forked tongues, but in the Hippocratic Oath, "Do no harm" and I understand your Patriotism not to attack your Country in public and your country should be proud of you for that. I am not sentimental towards my country or yours for that matter and unlike you I am not going to keep quiet about it either. But rest assured I will not abandon either England or the USA if times become expedient, I'll man the barricades with you or any other American Patriot that cares to stand up against tyranny and oppression.

And don't think you can nick that last line for your inaugural speech in the senate will you?

Regards, Danny

PS, Always a pleasure to do business with you Steve, cheers, no hard feelings on my part.

[spidersandsnakes]

As I pointed out earlier this week, Hitler wasn't right wing he was a self-proclaimed National Socialist, also a fascist (fascism was and is socialist), and on the center of a scale from communist to monarchist. The left/right scale simply does not apply to Hitler theoretically, conceptually, or empirically, however popular among intellectuals and the chattering class.

I believe you've got all yer spectrum MIXED UP...go UNjumble :):) B)

[Walesdad]

For what it's worth I'd like to chip in the following in the soldier/terrorist debate.When U.S. forces put Bin Laden out of his misery,and if I remember correctly,twelve children and three of his wives were also in the building.No fatalities took place among them,as we all know one wife was shot in the leg.Never happened to me,probably not a pleasent experience,but not in itself a life threatener.I would call this a professional job done by these soldiers.Today (Friday) two suicide bombers,members of the Pakistan Taliban apparently,blew themselves up in a Pakistani town.Eighty,I'll say that again,eighty poor individuals are now dead thanks to this act of barbarism with probably more to follow.Among them will be women and children.That is terrorism,may the sub humans who carried it out rot in hell.

[spidersandsnakes]

For what it's worth I'd like to chip in the following in the soldier/terrorist debate.When U.S. forces put Bin Laden out of his misery,and if I remember correctly,twelve children and three of his wives were also in the building.No fatalities took place among them,as we all know one wife was shot in the leg.Never happened to me,probably not a pleasent experience,but not in itself a life threatener.I would call this a professional job done by these soldiers.Today (Friday) two suicide bombers,members of the Pakistan Taliban apparently,blew themselves up in a Pakistani town.Eighty,I'll say that again,eighty poor individuals are now dead thanks to this act of barbarism with probably more to follow.Among them will be women and children.That is terrorism,may the sub humans who carried it out rot in hell.

NOPE.....the MURDER of 6000000 Jews and the napalm bombing of entire civilian villages in Nam is T E R R O R I S M!!!!!:)

[Walesdad]

NOPE.....the MURDER of 6000000 Jews and the napalm bombing of entire civilian villages in Nam is T E R R O R I S M!!!!!:)

With respect to your argument,I do not wish to debate either of these events.Good luck.

[Silver Rider]

And in other news...

Osama Bashes Joe Biden

by Michael Tomasky

thedailybeast.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I didn't see any of your Laws of Armed Conflict and the Geneva Conventions (pretty words aren't they:)!!??) when that other TERRORIST lot, the National Guard, BRUTALLY MURDERED 4 innocent AMERICAN kids on May 4th 1970 at Kent State(the NG COULD NOT disobey the governor's orders to shoot down the 4 kids, now could they? That is ALL written in the official report:)!!! Sorry, but I'm only responding with "brutality" against the IGNORANT brutallity expressed in some posts here:)!!

As I understand what occurred there, those college students were unarmed, yet the members of the Ohio National Guard shot them. Some were protesting the war in Viet Nam, some were casual observers watching from a distance, and some were simply walking in the vicinity.

source: wiki

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

lib.uci.edu

Demonstrations on college campuses continued to expand as the number of U.S. citizens who questioned the war on moral grounds increased, but it was the secret invasion of Cambodia in April 1970 that brought the largest turnouts of war protestors nationwide. This was also the case at UCI, at other UC campuses, and at campuses across the country, such as Kent State. Increasingly, organizations representing veterans who had fought in Vietnam were now also actively engaged in efforts to end the war.

Voices at UCI from the left are represented by the local chapter of SDS, the New University Conference, Vietnam Veterans against the War, and the UCI Moratorium Committee.

UCI Chancellor Daniel Aldrich speaks as a moderating influence. He responded to many organizations and individuals in Orange County who wrote to him to express strong concern about campus protests. He also attended numerous public forums in the community to address these concerns and to defend the importance of free inquiry on a university campus and public debate about the issues of the day.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Silver Rider

[Electrophile]

The KKK are terrorists. The Aryan Brotherhood are terrorists. Terrorism is not just limited to dictators and radical Islam.

[dazedcat]

You did say "Terrorists are no different than other armed members of an enemy army ..."

Yes I did say that. Somehow this morphed into the other guy blasting me for saying either the American or British Army were no different than the terrorists. Al Qaeda is an enemy army, they train like one, they have orders and they have targets which they do their best to destroy......along with innocent people.

At least you know the real reason why American forces are currently in Afghanistan, so props to you for that.

[MrZoSo]

Hi Mr Zoso,

I said "Americans" funded the IRA not the US Government, but they allowed it to go on and would do nothing to stop it therefore becoming COMPLICITE in the TERRORISM those funds were used for. Just as guilty as "Hole in the head" there then, so your President would be, as head of your country just as guilty as "Hole in the head" in any sane persons book then? is that right?

Your just full of excuses aren't you, Proud Irish? what's to be proud of? killing 3000+ innocent civilians, just goes to show that Young Nations are as Ignorant as Young People, but being Young is no excuse for Bad Behaviour, didn't your Parents teach you anything except how to dodge questions?

Regards, Danny

Actually Danny you said America. If you wish to call my answer excuses, do what thou wilt. The youth of America comment was a general statement, not intended for an answer to your question. The rest of your point is a concoction of whatever issue you are caring around in your head. You are trying to blame America, (and now all of a sudden, it's citizens) for a terrorist group that you feel Americans funded. Can't help you with that Dan. Honestly, I cannot be held responsible to give you factual answers, just my opinion. So it remains the same, the US government did not support the IRA. Best I can do Danny. While I won't say it's the most far fetched statement you are making, I just don't see any truth in it other than your misguided conviction to point a finger.

I am not Irish, so I have no idea what they are proud of. It's a term used by Irish people. It's my understanding they did not get along with your Country...Not sure why, as everyone else has always gotten along so well with your Country in the past.

Also, I take no offence to your personal jabs because I realize some need to act this way to compensate for lack of self esteem.

I will say this, you have excellent taste in music!

Regards

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

Earlier you said "I consider Adolf Hitler to be one of the biggest terrorists the world has ever encountered" but now say there's merely 'a remote resemblance' between Hitler and modern terrorists. Clearly your personal views on this are either conflicted, evolving or both so I'll not press the issue further. Frankly, I'm not here to start or win any arguments my intent is simply to present a more balanced, conservative viewpoint to counter those of the usual gang of Anti-American, pablum puking bleeding heart liberal extremists posting here.

Having said all that, I submit if there is a similarity to be found between Hitler & Bin Laden it is in promoting hatred and intolerence to achive other specific objectives - in Hitler's case the pursuit of Lebensraum and in Bin Laden's to expel United States forces from Saudi Arabia for the purpose of otherthrowing the Saudi royal family.

If you are in a very indirect way, trying to imply that I am Anti-American with distorted views about specific subjects, I think you are very well mistaken. The only thing I dislike about the world right now is all the hate religious extremists are spreading. Steve, let me tell you, I am just an ordinary 23 year old kid who has her own points of view. I really do think I have a right to speak my mind and my opinions can most certainly differ from yours. And if you take a look at this thread, I have pretty much just kept my trap shut for the most part because quite frankly, reading this thread makes my mind explode! This thread is far more complicated than even my thesis topic for my Master's degree which involves Concentration ellipsoids, random vectors and covariance matrices (even Econometrics seems so much simpler compared to this thread! )! I guess you have absolutely perfect views on subjects like this and I guess you are one of those people with an exceptionally brilliant mind, who is able to effectively comprehend issues like terrorism and give exceptionally logical views. As for smaller mortals like myself, well, away I go (as far away from this thread as possible!) Yikes!

Edited May 13, 2011 by Kiwi_Zep_Fan87

[Hotplant]

On the other hand given you just posted "I am not Anti-American at all" your just full of shit.

AGREE!!!!!

It's Times Like These I say BRING BACK HERMIT, DEL, and OLD SCRATCH!!!

If we have to deal with this buffoon...little danny boy.... please let us have some balance!

.

[zeplives66]

After reading this thread the only conclusion i could come to is this world is in big trouble and there will never be peace in Europe, Middle East, Asia, Africa so i say to any goverment of a country' that resides in this part of the world FUCK YOU ALL as i dont care if your country name ends in STAN, LAND or you come from the North, South,East or West of a divided country or whatever deep rooted resentment that you have towards your neighboring country, or how many factions of a religion you want to fight to death bcz you believe yours is the correct interpetation, so may i suggest the following to our beautiful Canadians and Mexicans neighbors that we open up our borders with each other and form a new country called North America and give 1 years notice to the rest of the world that we will be locking down our borders and if anyone wants to leave their country and be a part of this new nation your more then welcome only there will be no possible way of you ever going back except by row boat as there will be no incoming or outgoing travel outside of our borders, there will also be a lockdown of internet, mail, exporting/importing of goods. Nothing comes in nothing goes out including people. Our coastal areas will now be the property of the North American Armed forces who will be locked and loaded as well as its citizens. Notice will also be given to Central America to either head North or South as this area of the world will be turned into a waste land and be an official no mans land as i dont trust South American governments. Every American army base closes outside of our borders as well as every AmericanCanadian/Mexican Corporation that is overseas must now only operate within our borders. We will never again give foreign aid, do business with anyone outside of our borders, get involved in ANY conflict outside of our own borders. We will take care of our shit and the rest of the world can take care of their shit. And to all of the good people of these countries that do not decide to come to our new nation where you will live in peace, prosper and have a good chance at a decent life MAY GOD BE WITH YOU!!!

So what do you say Canada and Mexico you in? When the rest of the world blows itself up we can all wave our new flag and say finally the world has

I know this is ridiculous and is the result of me having a couple but hey a man can still dream cant he and have a little harmless fun???

LMAO Bottoms up and cheers to everyone!!!

[spidersandsnakes]

Methinx that the BEST thing for YOU to do is to GET OFF my lawn which in this moment is part of this here forum......I HAVE ALREADY REPORTED YOUR OBNOXIOUS post quoting MY "persona"!!!!:)

I SINCERELY HOPE YOU GET BANNED FOR GOOD FROM THIS FORUM FOR THAT!!!!!........as I said once before to Anjin, IT'S YOU OR ME MAN :):)!!!!

Edited May 14, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[spidersandsnakes]

AGREE!!!!!

It's Times Like These I say BRING BACK HERMIT, DEL, and OLD SCRATCH!!!

If we have to deal with this buffoon...little danny boy.... please let us have some balance!

.

EYE know who EYE'd bring back in these ROTTEN right wing times..........hehehehehhehehehehehhe :)

Edited May 14, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[spidersandsnakes]

The KKK are terrorists. The Aryan Brotherhood are terrorists. Terrorism is not just limited to dictators and radical Islam.

I would add other names to that terrorist list:

The past Bush administration

The American Gun lobby

Ghaddafi and his govt.

The armies of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Syria

Giuliani and his band of Mafiosis

The CIA

The FBI

....................and many, MANY others :):)

[Ady]

Footage of terrorist training camps always shows new recruits tackling the monkey bars or swinging on a rope on an obstacle course. Surely, if we want to catch the rest of these terrorists, all we have to do is get a list of whoever has purchased a set of monkey bars or a rope swing over the last 10 years and shoot them.

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

I only said your views concerning terrorism seem conflicted, which is understandable if your views are still evolving. Given your relatively young age this is probably the case. I never claimed my views to be superior nor perfect, but they are fully-formed based on all that I've come to learn thus far and my own life experience. As such, I unequivocally stand by what I post, my brilliant mind and almost super-human levels of comprehension notwithstanding.

Hi Steve!

You're absolutely right. My views are evolving. In fact, honestly, I find everyday of my life to be a sort of learning process so to speak And FYI, I sincerely meant every word I said about your brilliant mind, because I really admire your extremely informative posts about Led Zeppelin. It's a pleasure to read them! You, sir, are an asset to this forum. But I think you know that already! Anyway, cheers to you and do keep up the good work

[lzzoso]

I would add other names to that terrorist list:

The past Bush administration

The American Gun lobby

Ghaddafi and his govt.

The armies of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Syria

The CIA

The FBI

....................and many, MANY others :):)

I thought I would stay out of this topic/debate. I said what I believe to some and and they chose to ignore my points I was making and just replied back with snide and ignorant comments. However, I had to reply back to the above post which I feel is just completely stupid. Point for point:

The past Bush administration: complete and utter nonesense. A deliberate and devastating attack on 9/11/2001 was brought to the United States of America. In order to counter-attack, the U.S.A declared a "war on terror". Terror of all kinds that hopes and wishes to kill innocent people of America and other countries around the world.

The American Gun lobby: Citizens of the United States have a Constitionally guaranteed "right to bear arms".

Ghaddafi and his govt: Yes. Terrorists.

The armies of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Syria: Probably. But do these countries really have Armed Forces that are a real threat? Maybe a threat to their neighbors but a real threat to any other country that would and could decimate their armies in a real and prolonged battle? I would even say that the French armed forces could take on (and win) against these countries you named.

Giuliani and his band of Mafiosis: Again, simply ridiculous. Rudolph Giuliani was a federal prosecutor in New York City who cracked down on the mafia and organized crime (and put alot of mafiosi in prison) in NYC before he became Mayor of the City.

The CIA: If it were not for the CIA (and the Navy SEALs) Osama bin Laden would still be alive right now holed up in his shitty-looking 1 million dollar compound. He is dead as a result of a lot of hard work done by employees of the CIA.

The FBI: the FBI is an internal national police organization that investigates crimes and terrorist plots (among others) in the United States. If it were not for the FBI, there may have been several other terrorists attacks in the United States since 9/11.

I realize that some will disregard or simply dismiss what I have just typed. I could go into greater detail, however, I think what I said is enough for most level-headed people to comprehend. Some people (both domestic and foreign) already believe what they want to believe about the United States of America as a Country and a World Power. I don't care if you Love the U.S.A. or Hate the U.S.A., because I LOVE the United States of America and Nobody will Ever make me (whatever you/they say) change my thoughts, feelings or emotions for the Country where I was born.

Edited May 14, 2011 by lzzoso

[spidersandsnakes]

So who's the "pig" then???!:):)

[spidersandsnakes]

because I LOVE the United States of America

You might think this is strange, BUT I LOVE THE U.S.A. TOO....and much more than anyome can admit.......(I think I said that to Big Dan here 2:)). Having said that, I don't think being American is = to being a YESMAN at all costs just to show your committing love to the U.S.A. You can support your own country in MANY diff ways really and sometimes, it is necessary to KNOCK one's own country to change things for the better...it's all part of the patriotic way really:).

The CIA? If they were really working for the security of the nation, how come they didn't know what was going to happen on 9/11?????! aND THE fbi....WHERE WERE THEY ON THAT FATAL DAY????!:)

[Jahfin]

EYE know who EYE'd bring back in these ROTTEN right wing times..........hehehehehhehehehehehhe :)

Years ago I was watching the Steve Earle documentary Just An American Boy with some friends. During one of the songs in the movie, "Christmas Time In Washington" he attempts to summon the spirit of Woody Guthrie with the refrain, "come back Woody Guthrie, come back to us now". Upon hearing this, one of my friends said, "what in the hell is Woody Guthrie gonna do?" Good point. Even though they're out there, folk singers don't seem to carry as much weight these days as you rarely, if ever hear about them. This has more to do with the suppression of protest music by the media than anything else because there's definitely some pissed off people out there expressing themselves through song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew6LAiuTp3U

It's Christmastime in Washington

The Democrats rehearsed

Gettin' into gear for four more years

Things not gettin' worse

The Republicans drink whiskey neat

And thanked their lucky stars

They said, 'He cannot seek another term

They'll be no more FDRs'

I sat home in Tennessee

Staring at the screen

With an uneasy feeling in my chest

And I'm wonderin' what it means

So come back Woody Guthrie

Come back to us now

Tear your eyes from paradise

And rise again somehow

If you run into Jesus

Maybe he can help you out

Come back Woody Guthrie to us now

I followed in your footsteps once

Back in my travelin' days

Somewhere I failed to find your trail

Now I'm stumblin' through the haze

But there's killers on the highway now

And a man can't get around

So I sold my soul for wheels that roll

Now I'm stuck here in this town

So come back Woody Guthrie

Come back to us now

Tear your eyes from paradise

And rise again somehow

If you run into Jesus

Maybe he can help you out

Come back Woody Guthrie to us now

There's foxes in the hen house

Cows out in the corn

The unions have been busted

Their proud red banners torn

To listen to the radio

You'd think that all was well

But you and me and Cisco know

It's going straight to hell

So come back, Emma Goldman

Rise up, old Joe Hill

The barracades are goin' up

They cannot break our will

Come back to us, Malcolm X

And Martin Luther King

We're marching into Selma

As the bells of freedom ring

So come back Woody Guthrie

Come back to us now

Tear your eyes from paradise

And rise again somehow

If you run into Jesus

Maybe he can help you out

Come back Woody Guthrie to us now

Edited May 14, 2011 by Jahfin

[spidersandsnakes]

In fact, the time is ripe.....VERY ripe to transform those protest songs into action:):):)

[Jahfin]

http://youtu.be/giVXvveef8Y

[Anjin-san]

.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Anjin-san

[Electrophile]

While I don't always agree with Bill Maher, I think the overall point that he made in that monologue was pretty damn accurate -- there's a lot of people in this country who profess to be Christians, that are about as far from Christ-like as a person can get. I don't think there's anything wrong with being happy that someone like Osama Bin Laden caught it, but there is something rather hypocritical about people who follow the teachings of a man who said love your neighbor and turn the other cheek, having parties when someone dies, regardless of who that someone is. Just own the hypocrisy, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

In a way, I'm glad I'm an atheist and I don't need to worry about what a book of ancient Hebrew fairy tales suggests I do or don't do. I can just do what is right for but hurts no one else, and be done with it.