timothy5151 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Here's another article: http://uk.businessinsider.com/why-led-zeppelin-is-going-to-court-over-stairway-to-heaven-against-spirit-2016-4 I find it interesting that Wolf said in an interview in 1991 that he wasn't interested in suing Led Zeppelin, yet his estate is now suing. Edited April 13, 2016 by timothy5151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houses of the Holy Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 7 of 12 jurors may be all it takes to rule against Zep. Totally different rules in a civil case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/31346655/led-zeppelin-in-court/#page1 http://www.9news.com.au/entertainment/2016/04/12/15/55/led-zeppelins-page-and-plant-to-face-the-music-in-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case Edited April 13, 2016 by Reggie29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feather in the wind Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 the beginning of that taurus crap sounds more like Jim Croce's "time in a bottle" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldilocks Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 On 4/12/2016 at 8:02 AM, dan30may said: What a BS...Always those incapable to rise to fame will find a way to compensate for their mediocrity. If some sculptor takes a rock and makes a masterpiece worth 20 millions, those who owned that $2 rock will ask for a cut from what that rock became. I agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justfred Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Every song that the media uses to show songs were stolen are from very popular songs rearranged made popular again by another artist. Taurus imho doesnt even start the same way as Stairway,nor sound like it from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth and beauty Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Leader column from The Guardian . http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/12/the-guardian-view-on-stairway-to-heaven-its-on-another-page They're careful to refer to British courts and not to second-guess US ones. Let's hope that caution is unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurksReturnington Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 On 4/12/2016 at 2:11 AM, Versus said: The most interesting part of the judge's Order of Summary Judgement is the final section: "Defendants also seek summary judgment on Plaintiff’s second claim, labeled “Right of Attribution—Equitable Relief—Falsification of Rock n’ Roll History.” "The Court grants summary judgment on this claim. Plaintiff presents an inventive—yet legally baseless—claim creatively termed, “Falsification of Rock n’ Roll History.” The Court has diligently searched but is unable to locate any cognizable claim to support this theory of liability. Plaintiff’s Right of Attribution also fails, but for different reasons... Now, what if Stairway to Heaven failed to generate any interest? There would be no historical rock and roll record. Is this a #SuccessPenalty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurksReturnington Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 9 hours ago, JTM said: Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho. Prolly lots of people who never heard of Spirit until they read Hammer of the Gods in 1985. I like what I heard. It's just that Led Zeppelin is a bit of a gateway band, and if you choose to dig deeper, there's this whole history of music underneath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpMan Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, JTM said: Not a lot of Spirit fans in here, pity, you don't know what you're missing. btw Stairway was inspired by Taurus, imho. If you truly feel that way then you will also have to acquiesce through logic and fact that Spirit was even more so influenced by Davey Graham's Cry Me A River when they wrote the descending arpeggio structure which does not begin until the middle of the song. The structure between those two songs is almost identical vs. the 4 similar notes shared by only the opening arpeggio in STH. So, if I were Jimmy & Robert, I would find a living relative of Davey to sue the Randy California estate for copying Graham's CMAR and then using a stolen structure to lay the blame on another artist. One should be careful while strolling through the cactus as one might get pricked. That being said I too enjoy the music of Spirit, not all of it or even most of it but some is pretty good. Taurus is not one of their good songs, it is disjointed and meandering with no real point form beginning to end. Also, according to research, Spirit never played Taurus live at any gig's Zeppelin & Spirit played together, which BTW was only three or four I believe. Edited April 14, 2016 by IpMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Strolling through the cactus? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging "Taurus" and it's possible/probable influence on "Stairway". What difference does it make when or where it was played live or what influenced "Taurus"? Zep were clearly aware of the band and their music. That said, this lawsuit is a pathetic attempt at a money grab. What's in question is whether this courtroom will be able to employ common sense when considering the similarities and differences of these two songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timothy5151 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/led-zeppelin-copyright-trial-1.3531641 According to the article, "Skidmore was able to overcome statute-of-limitations hurdles to sue over Stairway to Heaven because the song was remastered and re-released in 2014." , does this mean they can only go after the royalties for STH from the 2014 remasters? Legal jargon confuses me. If this is the case, I can't imagine the $$$ to be that much. Edited April 14, 2016 by timothy5151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmalade_Skies Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I heard the track. Yes, there are similarities for sure, but being inspired by something is not the same as copying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTM Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 12 hours ago, IpMan said: If you truly feel that way then you will also have to acquiesce through logic and fact that Spirit was even more so influenced by Davey Graham's Cry Me A River when they wrote the descending arpeggio structure which does not begin until the middle of the song. The structure between those two songs is almost identical vs. the 4 similar notes shared by only the opening arpeggio in STH. So, if I were Jimmy & Robert, I would find a living relative of Davey to sue the Randy California estate for copying Graham's CMAR and then using a stolen structure to lay the blame on another artist. One should be careful while strolling through the cactus as one might get pricked. That being said I too enjoy the music of Spirit, not all of it or even most of it but some is pretty good. Taurus is not one of their good songs, it is disjointed and meandering with no real point form beginning to end. Also, according to research, Spirit never played Taurus live at any gig's Zeppelin & Spirit played together, which BTW was only three or four I believe. I would imagine JP would not want any mention of Davy Graham's CMAR, that would open a whole new can of worms. 10 hours ago, Badgeholder Still said: Strolling through the cactus? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging "Taurus" and it's possible/probable influence on "Stairway". What difference does it make when or where it was played live or what influenced "Taurus"? Zep were clearly aware of the band and their music. That said, this lawsuit is a pathetic attempt at a money grab. What's in question is whether this courtroom will be able to employ common sense when considering the similarities and differences of these two songs. Totally agree this law suit is a cash grab, I really hope that it fails. Just because the two numbers share similarities does not mean one is a copy of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigante Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) I wouldn't even say that Stairway was in any way 'inspired' by Taurus. There's a tiny similarity in one short section - and that's all. It's either a simple coincidence or a parallel development based on similar influences. I don't believe for a minute that Jimmy heard Taurus and thought 'I'm having that'. Bullsh*t. Edited April 14, 2016 by Brigante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithril46 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 The worst thing about this is is not any cash payout, but if there was a last-minute settle or if the trial went sour, you would now have many knuckleheads saying, "Led Zeppelin ?? They stole the idea(s) for their greatest song, and who knows how many more". I hope I am exaggerating but this notion has steam coming out of my ears. Some of the Blues plagiarism, fine, Plant came close to the bone at times, although Page played totally different riffs. Hopefully common sense will prevail, as despite the greatness of the rest of Zep's material, losing this case could be disasterous from a public relations view and a media feeding frenzy. Hope I'm exaggerating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles J. White Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 On 2/28/2016 at 10:14 PM, RIP-IT-UP said: I've discounted a Lot of Page's "borrowing" over the years; but now : to say in court that he "never heard Taurus"; didn't own any Spirit records; nor ever hear Spirit play live-is just a lie. I have a cassette interview of Page that was recorded off the radio in 1976 or 77, and he clearly states that Spirit and Kaleidoscope were 2 of the "best bands" he ever saw in the States. Now he denies all this. He lost me this time. Let’s clear this up once and for ALL – Taurus and Stairway to Heaven are NOT even close in the opening; one song is a “descending” series of notes and the 2nd song is an “ascending” series of notes. Can we all just put this to bed once and for all…Fuck this whole discussion grates my nerves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles J. White Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 4 hours ago, Brigante said: I wouldn't even say that Stairway was in any way 'inspired' by Taurus. There's a tiny similarity in one short section - and that's all. It's either a simple coincidence or a parallel development based on similar influences. I don't believe for a minute that Jimmy heard Taurus and thought 'I'm having that'. Bullsh*t. Let’s clear this up once and for ALL – Taurus and Stairway to Heaven are NOT even close in the opening; one song is a “descending” series of notes and the 2nd song is an “ascending” series of notes. Can we all just put this to bed once and for all…Fuck this whole discussion grates my nerves. Back in the early 80's when I was first learning to play a guitar I thought, wow they stole it, UNTIL I developed an ear for guitar, and before long when strumming a guitar I could clearly hear they were 2 different riffs This entire discussion and debate and court case is such bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 18 hours ago, timothy5151 said: http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/led-zeppelin-copyright-trial-1.3531641 According to the article, "Skidmore was able to overcome statute-of-limitations hurdles to sue over Stairway to Heaven because the song was remastered and re-released in 2014." , does this mean they can only go after the royalties for STH from the 2014 remasters? Legal jargon confuses me. If this is the case, I can't imagine the $$$ to be that much. That is my understanding of it, that they would only be able to go after royalties that fall within the statute of limitations, such as the 2014 re-release. I'm no legal expert, but that's what I'd read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithril46 Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 This is madness, agreed all around. Yet it is apparently going to trial, a settlement is unacceptable for all the obvious reasons. The trial won't be stopped by Zep fans sending in petitions for logic to the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANONYMOUS Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 One more to add to the debate: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-unoriginal-originality-of-led-zeppelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houses of the Holy Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 "Forensic musicologist"? Oh boy. Before we know it, LZ will be on trial for murder. *facepalm* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stairway is NOT stolen Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I’ll let Led Zeppelin have the beginning of Taurus for their song without a lawsuit. - Randy California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 If ambiguous notions like "concept" and "feel" are going to be the determining factors in musical copyright cases, rather than the actual notes, chords, and structure, then I see no reason for Led Zeppelin to NOT sue practically every hard rock band that came after them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.