leddy Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I think there's a difference of a full octave between Child in Time's screams and ALS! Thats very true but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ALS is a great song but it was probably hard to place. The best spot is probably before Kashmir, but when you have a catelog like Zepp has there's going to be songs left out. I'm more shocked Heartbreaker wasn't played. That may be the most played Zepp tune outside of anything from IV. And possibly WLL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrios Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 achilles is a very demanding piece technically and emotionally, i personally think of all the music released on the official dvd (over 5 hrs) achilles at knebworth is the dvd's best song, perhaps did not feel ready to play this song ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Thats very true but Judging from the shows I've heard, I don't think Robert would struggle with ALS. That's all I was saying. Nice to see you Leddy! Have a pint on me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Right, I think this song is in quite a lower register (vocally) than a lot of Zeppelin songs-I'm sure he could have sung it quite easily. I think you're right-you just can't sing every song in one night and I'm sure they had their own strategies for when to play certain songs-Misty mountain Hop for example was probably...'lets's play a short, fun , rocking song after those few epics we just played and before we end with Kashmir..'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Well, they in fact did mess up D&C at the O2, and IMO Kashmir is an easier song to get lost in. Zeppelin sure did! I don't believe ALS being left out had anything to do with difficulty. I'm also shocked that TSRTS could ever be referred to as "inferior"! It was Jimmy anthemic overture at the time. An absolutely brilliant piece. Nah, I believe it was either time constraint or they simply didn't agree on it being included. AGREED ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr E Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I was quite glad they didn't play it to be honest, it's never been a favourite of mine. It's a good song but I'd much rather hear epics like Kashmir, Dazed and Confused, In My Time Of Dying and No Quarter which were all played, so good on em'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leddy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Judging from the shows I've heard, I don't think Robert would struggle with ALS. That's all I was saying. Nice to see you Leddy! Have a pint on me! cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billee Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 My guesses: 1. Length 2. Difficulty 3. Page's finger (this was also my guess for why Heartbreaker was left out. He played good but maybe he didn't feel confident about these "showcases") Another thing that might shed some light on it...in one of Jimmy's recent interviews (although I can't remember which one or what the exact quote was) he says something about how ALS from Knebworth on the DVD isn't particularly good without all the extra guitars. I was pretty surprised by this because I think that's a highlight of the DVD, but maybe he no longer feels he can do it justice with just one guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 My guesses: 1. Length 2. Difficulty 3. Page's finger (this was also my guess for why Heartbreaker was left out. He played good but maybe he didn't feel confident about these "showcases") Another thing that might shed some light on it...in one of Jimmy's recent interviews (although I can't remember which one or what the exact quote was) he says something about how ALS from Knebworth on the DVD isn't particularly good without all the extra guitars. I was pretty surprised by this because I think that's a highlight of the DVD, but maybe he no longer feels he can do it justice with just one guitar. Maybe with the finger he felt he couldn't do it. Didn't think about that before. But still when you only have 2 hours to do a set, there's still going to be good songs left off. Especially with Zepps catalog when you can't really find a bad song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGG Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 My guesses: 1. Length 2. Difficulty 3. Page's finger (this was also my guess for why Heartbreaker was left out. He played good but maybe he didn't feel confident about these "showcases") Another thing that might shed some light on it...in one of Jimmy's recent interviews (although I can't remember which one or what the exact quote was) he says something about how ALS from Knebworth on the DVD isn't particularly good without all the extra guitars. I was pretty surprised by this because I think that's a highlight of the DVD, but maybe he no longer feels he can do it justice with just one guitar. That's what was running through my mind as well, that's alot of guitar sound to cover. After a 27 year wait, (for a "Led Zeppelin" show that is) they probably put the songs with the best chance of a successful performance to the front. So many great songs...., something is always going to be left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot dog Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Given the set length there's no way they could play all their signature tunes; if they'd done ALS presumably they'd have to leave out one of the other longer pieces, in which case no doubt there'd now be threads titled 'Why Didn't They Play 'Dazed & Confused'' or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bomber Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't know,there are many pieces i would have just gotten rid of for the time difficulty,i would be willing to chuck out Misty Mountain Hop,Ramble On and EVEN For Your Life (And i LOVE FYL) So IMHO it probably isn't time,it's my favourite Zep song after STH,my theory is the rythm section hadn't gelled well enough,the rythm section in ALS is one of Zep's tightest,that galloping bass-line and the thundering drum rolls,JPJ and Jason Bonham don't have the chemistry yet,it's one of Bonzo's best drum performance's,saying "Why did they leave ALS out?" is like asking why they left Moby Dick out,far too much pressure on JB,it's really fast and those drum rolls in the solo would be a bitch to play with every drummer in the world to answer to after the show,something along the lines of "You f*cked up Jimmy's rythm in the solo" followed by a knife-fight is an intimadating prospect,I was surprised they did Kashmir and i suspect the only reason they did was Plant's single-minded devotion to Kashmir and he wouldn't even do the show unless they did it,JB was in SERIOUS danger of getting lost in that rythm,the rythm in Kashmir is amazingly complex,especially when you add those drum-rolls and the hypnotic quality of the song,but on seeing Kashmir on youtube,i'm convinced that at one point in it,Jason's body was actually possessed by his father,i think he could have done it,but was petrified of messing up,Kashmir is rather simple sounding but that just makes it easier to fall into the trap and just mess-up the drum rolls,on close inspection,it's very simple but very easy to screw up,ALS is not simple and is easier to screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashbag Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't know,there are many pieces i would have just gotten rid of for the time difficulty,i would be willing to chuck out Misty Mountain Hop,Ramble On and EVEN For Your Life (And i LOVE FYL) So IMHO it probably isn't time,it's my favourite Zep song after STH,my theory is the rythm section hadn't gelled well enough,the rythm section in ALS is one of Zep's tightest,that galloping bass-line and the thundering drum rolls,JPJ and Jason Bonham don't have the chemistry yet,it's one of Bonzo's best drum performance's,saying "Why did they leave ALS out?" is like asking why they left Moby Dick out,far too much pressure on JB,it's really fast and those drum rolls in the solo would be a bitch to play with every drummer in the world to answer to after the show,something along the lines of "You f*cked up Jimmy's rythm in the solo" followed by a knife-fight is an intimadating prospect,I was surprised they did Kashmir and i suspect the only reason they did was Plant's single-minded devotion to Kashmir and he wouldn't even do the show unless they did it,JB was in SERIOUS danger of getting lost in that rythm,the rythm in Kashmir is amazingly complex,especially when you add those drum-rolls and the hypnotic quality of the song,but on seeing Kashmir on youtube,i'm convinced that at one point in it,Jason's body was actually possessed by his father,i think he could have done it,but was petrified of messing up,Kashmir is rather simple sounding but that just makes it easier to fall into the trap and just mess-up the drum rolls,on close inspection,it's very simple but very easy to screw up,ALS is not simple and is easier to screw up. I agree about Kashmir. I was praying the whole time that it wouldn't be Zurich 1980 all over again (thank God they pulled it off). But who's to say that Jason Bonham couldn't pull it off? If they were going to include the song in the set, he probably would've worked his ass off day and night until he perfected everything with Jimmy and John Paul. I think he could've done a great job with it. It probably had to do with (as said before) the shitload of guitar layers, and Jimmy not being confident on the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGG Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I don't know,there are many pieces i would have just gotten rid of for the time difficulty,i would be willing to chuck out Misty Mountain Hop,Ramble On and EVEN For Your Life (And i LOVE FYL) So IMHO it probably isn't time,it's my favourite Zep song after STH,my theory is the rythm section hadn't gelled well enough,the rythm section in ALS is one of Zep's tightest,that galloping bass-line and the thundering drum rolls,JPJ and Jason Bonham don't have the chemistry yet,it's one of Bonzo's best drum performance's,saying "Why did they leave ALS out?" is like asking why they left Moby Dick out,far too much pressure on JB,it's really fast and those drum rolls in the solo would be a bitch to play with every drummer in the world to answer to after the show,something along the lines of "You f*cked up Jimmy's rythm in the solo" followed by a knife-fight is an intimadating prospect,I was surprised they did Kashmir and i suspect the only reason they did was Plant's single-minded devotion to Kashmir and he wouldn't even do the show unless they did it,JB was in SERIOUS danger of getting lost in that rythm,the rythm in Kashmir is amazingly complex,especially when you add those drum-rolls and the hypnotic quality of the song,but on seeing Kashmir on youtube,i'm convinced that at one point in it,Jason's body was actually possessed by his father,i think he could have done it,but was petrified of messing up,Kashmir is rather simple sounding but that just makes it easier to fall into the trap and just mess-up the drum rolls,on close inspection,it's very simple but very easy to screw up,ALS is not simple and is easier to screw up. Put down the kool-aid. Jason Bonham is perfectly capable of playing anything in his fathers catalogue. Moby Dick would be an exception not because of lack of skill, but out of sheer respect. A knifefight for messing up Jimmy's solo section?? I thought Richard Cole was out of the picture..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 From what I hear Jason normally does a mean solo with Foreigner. They did Kashmir because every member of the band considers it their signature song. Even Page has said as much in interviews. It's Plant's favorite song, but it's probably one of the greatest songs ever. Plant said it best before Dazed and Confused. "There are certain songs we know we would play and this is one of them" so is Stairway, Kashmir, WLL, Rock and Roll, Black Dog, probably one or two others. They are songs Zepp couldn't leave out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdh Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Too much of a connection with John Bonham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Too much of a connection with John Bonham Then they wouldn't have played it with P&P in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang991 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Jason Bonham is perfectly capable of playing anything in his fathers catalogue. Moby Dick would be an exception not because of lack of skill, but out of sheer respect. Jason's an amazing drummer. No doubt about it. But the man himself admits that some things he just can't play. He had to practice to get his bass beats fast enough. That's certainly not to say that after some practice (possibly even not much practice) he'd be able to play it, but I'm not sure if he would've felt comfortable at the show playing it. I'm not saying that's the reason it was left out. I"m too tired to think of a plausible reason. Just stating that Jason himself admits that he can't do everything. You have to have confidence in your ability, and then be tough enough to follow through. Rosalynn Carter (1927 - ) I haven't been here in a long time. Bad "first post" I guess. How's everyone been? I see they got rid of Lumbering Sluts, which was getting out of hand i gotta say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 No one is as good as John Bonham. There may never be anyone that good again. But Jason isn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchzep27 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I was hoping for -the rover, would've fit nicely in that heavy setlist too. I think they could have done -achilles... wonder why they didnt do it, time constraints i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Hed Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 ... in place of inferior tracks like Misty Mountain Hop, TSRTS and Ramble On... "inferior" ?!?! Whaaaaaaat? That seems like a mean thing to say. You should apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebah Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Besides the lenght of the song and the 2 hours they had to play the emblematic songs of Led Zeppelin, I guess one of the reasons they didn't play ALS is just practice. I mean, think about the evolution of Dazed and Confused between 1968 and 1973~1975. They played it for years to achieve that 'level' (and that's probably one of the reasons they messed up with D&C at the O2). The same happens with ALS. They created the song after 8 years playing together, knowing each other. I think the 'New Zep' has to practice a lot, and not just Jason, but all the members of the band, so they can play songs like ALS again. ALS is one of the songs I like most! Again, I think it's just practice =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdh Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Then they wouldn't have played it with P&P in the 90s. I believe they only played it maybe a total of 3 times, then realized that the "majick" was not there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deezer Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 All I know is, Achilles is one of my favorite Zeppelin songs. It rocks hardcore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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