Walter Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 In the interests of accuracy, Mr. Plant did not say the alternates lacked any real relevance - it's just people in this forum who are saying that. What Mr. Plant said (and what I quoted earlier) was that they weren't relevant *to him*. The companion disc songs would also not be relevant many people for many reasons (if, for instance, you were deaf, or if you were at the bottom of the Mariana Trench in a bathysphere and could not stream music or <gasp> you just didn't care for some reason) - but that does not render the songs without value in themselves, does not make them less interesting in themselves, and most certainly does not make them irrelevant for *all* people. So actually, to say that the songs lack relevance (without qualification) says more about the person posting than it does about the songs. Even to say the songs lack personal relevance says something about the person posting -- not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a statement of position, even when Robert Plant says it. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah - that'd definitely be brilliant - and I'm sure would have been part of the release if they existed and JP felt was warranted to include. And I reckon there might be some really cool surprises left. You've hit the nail on the head there! In the interests of accuracy, Mr. Plant did not say the alternates lacked any real relevance - it's just people in this forum who are saying that. What Mr. Plant said (and what I quoted earlier) was that they weren't relevant *to him*. The companion disc songs would also not be relevant many people for many reasons (if, for instance, you were deaf, or if you were at the bottom of the Mariana Trench in a bathysphere and could not stream music or <gasp> you just didn't care for some reason) - but that does not render the songs without value in themselves, does not make them less interesting in themselves, and most certainly does not make them irrelevant for *all* people. So actually, to say that the songs lack relevance (without qualification) says more about the person posting than it does about the songs. Even to say the songs lack personal relevance says something about the person posting -- not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a statement of position, even when Robert Plant says it. Best post ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2632 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I can see a few of these songs being so similar to the original that you can't tell the difference, but if you can't hear the difference between Brandy & Coke and Trampled Under Foot then I would definitely recommend a hearing test. I think this track sounds amazing compared to the original, I love when Jonsey is the most prominent member on this track, and no better way of doing that rather than dropping the guitar overdubs. I think on most of these companion disc tracks Plant's vocals sound incredible, especially on this! Can't wait to hear Everybody Makes It Through and Driving Through Kashmir!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pujols05 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Are the companion tracks what we dreamed of? Largely No Are they Led Zeppelin tracks we haven't had before (with some exception)? Yes Can people buy or not buy, listen or not listen? Yes Missed opportunity for Page? Perhaps Do we know what he has to work with? Not that I've heard Will we have this same back and forth for the last three album? Undoubtedly! Each companion disc has had gems and each has had stinkers. In the end, it's MORE Led Zeppelin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Do we know what he has to work with? Not that I've heard He has implied that there are gaps in his collection -- and we know that several things have been stolen over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pujols05 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 He has implied that there are gaps in his collection -- and we know that several things have been stolen over the years. Yes, there was the house theft and he is trying to deliver stuff that hasn't been bootlegged, but there have been a couple exceptions to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirvana Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's my opinion that many of the songs on the companion disks lack any relevance at all. I'm with Robert on this one. Others may buy into some clever marketing by Jimmy but I chose not to. Although I'm buying the 2 disk CD packages despite the irrelevant nature of said company disks - to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IzzyBlues Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 To be honest I'm heartbroken that we aren't getting an alternate mix of Down By The Seaside on PG. Would have loved to have heard a studio recorded acoustic outtake of that song. I'm craving to see an alternate mix of I'm Gonna Crawl from ITTOD. But here's hoping that the Coda companion disc will feature a few unreleased tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrycja Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Wow. Rarefied air here. Is it the lack of O2 that makes you place what Nirvana said into a context he did not imply so that you could allow yourself a clear shot at about 'what it says about the person posting'? Or that makes you ignore addressing the specious position of those who take in all the companion discs as if they were gospel simply because they deem Page 'beyond genius'? In the interest of accuracy, Nirvana and others have given valid reasons for their disappointment thus far with the companion discs. He also never said they are irrelevant for ALL people, but in reframing it that way, you discredit him - and the plenty of those who agree, self-interest fully disclosed - and it's really just high brow stuff posing as enlightened opining when all it really does is shut discourse of a position equally as valid as yours. You said earlier that you and others feel that guitar overdubs make a huge difference since you're fascinated with Page's musical thinking, and you are fully entitled to your position. But so are those who don't get a harder faster pulse over these particular versions. I love compositions-in-progress, too, and hearing about the decisions made along the way that lead to the final product. For many, a lot of the so-called rough mixes are just too close to the finish line to justify the investment. But value even when qualified is relative (except of course when talking about the final product, because the Zep catalogue is brilliant, and anyone who disagrees just has no musical intelligence to speak of - hey! broad brush, that was fun!) and worthy of discussion from both sides, notwithstanding your funny but snide swipes at those who don't share your views about just how relevant the companion discs are. I sure hope there will be some songs on the upcoming companion discs that we can all agree are scintillating, but until then, let's leave room for irreverence and dissent. People are as genuinely disappointed as you are fascinated. In the interests of accuracy, Mr. Plant did not say the alternates lacked any real relevance - it's just people in this forum who are saying that. What Mr. Plant said (and what I quoted earlier) was that they weren't relevant *to him*. The companion disc songs would also not be relevant many people for many reasons (if, for instance, you were deaf, or if you were at the bottom of the Mariana Trench in a bathysphere and could not stream music or <gasp> you just didn't care for some reason) - but that does not render the songs without value in themselves, does not make them less interesting in themselves, and most certainly does not make them irrelevant for *all* people. So actually, to say that the songs lack relevance (without qualification) says more about the person posting than it does about the songs. Even to say the songs lack personal relevance says something about the person posting -- not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a statement of position, even when Robert Plant says it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lif Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi Patrycja: I believe I very clearly addressed the bit about "relevancy", so there's really no point in rehashing it, except to note that when people make statements without qualification then the implication is that the statement would be true for everyone. People might think I'm quibbling, but I noticed that Robert Plant was very careful to qualify his statement. Perhaps a lesson there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrycja Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 lif, it really didn't resonate that way from here, yet we read the same post by Nirvana. Given that, it's clear that your impression of what was implied is just that. I was really surprised you jumped from his statement that he doesn't like it to apparently his meaning 'it's irrelevant to ALL'. It seems it would be far more clear that one means irrelevant for ALL if one clearly states as such, otherwise, of course each person is speaking from his or her own position and not for anyone else. There is no need to constantly be saying "just my opinion" or "at least to me..." Robert's qualifying is also IMO not that important because, of course, it's just his opinion. To Jimmy by contrast the material is hugely relevant - does he need to say 'to me at least' all the time? Seems silly, right? You then went off on those who disagree with your position about the topic; that part, at least seemed clear, and rubbed the wrong way. PG and the remaining albums can't come out soon enough. Hi Patrycja: I believe I very clearly addressed the bit about "relevancy", so there's really no point in rehashing it, except to note that when people make statements without qualification then the implication is that the statement would be true for everyone. People might think I'm quibbling, but I noticed that Robert Plant was very careful to qualify his statement. Perhaps a lesson there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The thing is disappintment over the bonus discs isn't warranted. No promises were made about what material they would include. Want lists were created in peoples imaginations. Sorry folks, there isn't a bottomless well of leftovers. Unless i'm mistaken, this whole project was about putting a modern production polish on the orginal albums, not about lost gems. All of the bonus material so far is relevant to the original album material it accompanies. If you are dissapointed, your expectations are unreasonable. In this day and age, with the beautiful remasters and every concert recording at your fingertips, the only thing you should be disappointed about is not having enough time to enjoy what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The thing is disappintment over the bonus discs isn't warranted. No promises were made about what material they would include. Want lists were created in peoples imaginations. Sorry folks, there isn't a bottomless well of leftovers. Unless i'm mistaken, this whole project was about putting a modern production polish on the orginal albums, not about lost gems. All of the bonus material so far is relevant to the original album material it accompanies. If you are dissapointed, your expectations are unreasonable. In this day and age, with the beautiful remasters and every concert recording at your fingertips, the only thing you should be disappointed about is not having enough time to enjoy what you have. These are my thoughts exactly. I've enjoyed them for what they are, another version of the song - closely related or not. The fact is, don't get your expectations too high, just enjoy what we get - new Zeppelin. Unless you enjoy muddied versions of stolen goods. Frankly, I'm listening to the companion discs more than the originals because I've heard those versions a million times. I like variety, that's why I listen to boots primarily. Can't wait for the package to arrive in a little more than 1 week!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pujols05 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Can't wait for the package to arrive in a little more than 1 week!!!! Dang, glass is more than half full, eh? I would have said a little less than two weeks. "When a minute seems like a lifetime...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well it's Thursday night and it arrives a week from Monday (with a long weekend ahead) so yeah it's definitely a glass half-filled attitude! Plus currently listening to Trampled Under Foot from St. Louis '75 and lovin' it! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Or that makes you ignore addressing the specious position of those who take in all the companion discs as if they were gospel simply because they deem Page 'beyond genius'? A specious position to think fans should be grateful for the exercise JP has undertaken and be thankful he at least decided to do this? Fair enough some are disappointed, some fans will want what is not possible. That's expectations. Some will be disappointed with the marketing, terminology user (rough take when it is more near final take etc.), and whatever other reasons. He had what he had to work with. He made the decisions he made. I have heard new Zeppelin material (even when only a slightly earlier take than the finish - or same without vocal - still new to me!) That is brilliant. I got to hear stuff I have not heard before. I got to go through the anticipation a hardcore zep fan gets to experience in waiting for these releases. I'm not saying JP could release a track of him farting and you should respect it, he had an idea to build a story around how some of the songs were realised, and with what he had to draw on, created the companions. Sounds like a great idea to me - and so far - for me - it works. But feel free to criticise the project that JP has decided to work through, with material he is the gatekeeper of. That you feel it could be better, is not worth doing, lacks something, fails. Why not? For me the "why not" is out of simple RESPECT. I might have the occasional critique - but I would not have the gall to publicly state it - FOR SIMPLE RESPECT. Who the fuck am I to criticise someone who has given me more joy/amazement/transcendence than anyone else besides immediate family? Who has musical genius I can hardly fathom?? I'll remain thankful JP decided to do this for the fans - no doubt for himself too. And I'll continue to enjoy reading different views on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pujols05 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well it's Thursday night and it arrives a week from Monday (with a long weekend ahead) so yeah it's definitely a glass half-filled attitude! Plus currently listening to Trampled Under Foot from St. Louis '75 and lovin' it! Cheers! Ah, I get to wait until the 24th on this side of the pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm in Florida and always have received them on the Monday of the release date, through Amazon. Maybe just close proximity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Only Way To Fly Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I too am disappointed with the companion discs but NOT entirely so. I was hoping that JP would have looked to the Beatles series or The Doors - both who've released a ton of great alt tracks with false starts, studio banter, and live in studio outtakes - however - as said above we don't know what he has to work with. I give him credit for providing us with what he did put together. The best (for me) has been LZ I - III and am hopeful the rest of the releases will deliver a gem here or there. And in somewhat related... with all the work he's done in reviewing the catalog, I'm surprised that stuff that wasn't included on the official releases, hasn't made its way to the blackmarket/bootleggers. Have there been any unofficial releases of studio stuff since these new LP's were remastered/released? Not that I know of... I know there's been a few sound boards, but you'd think in taking on such a large retrospective, some other stuff would have leaked. Thoughts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pujols05 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm in Florida and always have received them on the Monday of the release date, through Amazon. Maybe just close proximity? Oh! I got the the first three on the Tuesday, the last two on the Monday...the day of release each time. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcondo123 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'm in Florida and always have received them on the Monday of the release date, through Amazon. Maybe just close proximity? Interesting, I'm in Cleveland and Amazon says mine'll arrive on March 2nd This is my first box set so I'm not 100% sure about the accuracy of Amazon's predicted delivery. That would make sense that you would be closer to an extension of Amazon, lucky you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathington Willoughby Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Interesting, I'm in Cleveland and Amazon says mine'll arrive on March 2nd This is my first box set so I'm not 100% sure about the accuracy of Amazon's predicted delivery. That would make sense that you would be closer to an extension of Amazon, lucky you!! I think they do that on purpose so you are happy when you get it early, they have warehouses all over. You'll get it before March 2nd, I would put money on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com#Fulfillment_and_warehousing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pujols05 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think they do that on purpose so you are happy when you get it early, they have warehouses all over. You'll get it before March 2nd, I would put money on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com#Fulfillment_and_warehousing Not if he selected free shipping. Then they treat you like a 3rd class citizen. I ordered through a friend's Prime membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathington Willoughby Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The thing is disappintment over the bonus discs isn't warranted. No promises were made about what material they would include. Want lists were created in peoples imaginations. Sorry folks, there isn't a bottomless well of leftovers. Unless i'm mistaken, this whole project was about putting a modern production polish on the orginal albums, not about lost gems. All of the bonus material so far is relevant to the original album material it accompanies. If you are dissapointed, your expectations are unreasonable. In this day and age, with the beautiful remasters and every concert recording at your fingertips, the only thing you should be disappointed about is not having enough time to enjoy what you have. Did you get your prescription refilled this week or something Badgeholder Still? You've made some shockingly good, level-headed posts lately. (Deep Purple is still over-rated though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirvana Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I know that "Brandy and Coke" was probably a working title before they decided on "Trampled Underfoot" as the final name. However when the working title is combined with "Initial rough mix" one would expect some kind of unique deviation from the song we all knew to this point. Some kind of insight, whether lyrical, instrumental, subjective etc. But in the end Brandy and Coke is nearly identical to THE final mix of Trampled...I feel like a shell game was played here with words and for no apparent reason. C'mon man - call a Buick a Buick...not a Chevy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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