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1977 SHOWS RANKED INTO 3 CATEGORIES

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2 minutes ago, Christopher Lees said:

I've been listening to the whole tour for 25 years.

I have no opinion on the personal regrets of the fans who went to see the 77 shows. My comment was not about their opinions, but rather the shows themselves. Even the best 77 shows have Jimmy in sloppy mode, all night, every night. In no single show or even a single song, did he achieve the levels of fluidity he achieved in 71-73. On top of that, Plant can't sing after the 73 tour, and even the 73 tour was pretty bad compared to 68-72. When Robert Plant sounds like me in my car trying to sing Zeppelin and Jimmy in sloppy mode, it's just not the same. The best 77 shows are really just a B and hardly even a B+ while the best 71-73 shows are clearly A+.

Your argument goes off the rails here. Plant in 1977 (save for a few moments in Seattle) is in far better voice than in 1975 and 1973.

 

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Just now, Strider said:

Your argument goes off the rails here. Plant in 1977 (save for a few moments in Seattle) is in far better voice than in 1975 and 1973. 

 

Not to my ears. He has a couple nights where it's not too bad in some songs, like on 6-13-77 on OTHAFA, but it's not comparable to 68-72. Since I've Been Loving you comes to mind. Listen to him in September 1970 in Hawaii and then listen to any show in 77 and it's a crying shame.

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1 hour ago, Christopher Lees said:

Not to my ears. He has a couple nights where it's not too bad in some songs, like on 6-13-77 on OTHAFA, but it's not comparable to 68-72. Since I've Been Loving you comes to mind. Listen to him in September 1970 in Hawaii and then listen to any show in 77 and it's a crying shame.

Plant is not to the level he was in 68-72, but he's still miles better in 77 than in 75 or 73. His range is much improved and he rarely cracks or croaks.

Here is Plant on what is considered a "good" night for him in 1975:

And here is Plant on a good night in 1977:

Are you honestly telling me you hear no difference? He sounds hoarse and low for pretty much all of 1975. In 1977, with a couple of exceptions (Seattle, Tempe) he's got a much better range and sounds strong.

Like I said, he's certainly not back to the level he was in his early years. But to say he couldn't sing is false. He's better in 77 than 73 or 75 that's for sure.

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3 hours ago, Christopher Lees said:

Not to my ears. He has a couple nights where it's not too bad in some songs, like on 6-13-77 on OTHAFA, but it's not comparable to 68-72. Since I've Been Loving you comes to mind. Listen to him in September 1970 in Hawaii and then listen to any show in 77 and it's a crying shame.

I take it you're judging his vocals by his range? Yes, Plant had a completely different range after 72. But in 73 and 75 he struggled not only with range, but with constant throat problems which caused him to sound hoarse for the first three numbers. In 77 he was at least able to gain control back and sing with confidence. As for Page, he never truly hit 73 level, but there are a few moments in 77 where he played very close on a technical level. "Even the best nights had Jimmy in sloppy mode". I gotta strongly disagree with that and I'm super critical of Page. Maybe 75, but he regained some control of his syncopation in 77 and had better phrasing. 75 Page is an articulation disaster.

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7 hours ago, ZepHead315 said:

Plant is not to the level he was in 68-72, but he's still miles better in 77 than in 75 or 73. His range is much improved and he rarely cracks or croaks.

Here is Plant on what is considered a "good" night for him in 1975:

And here is Plant on a good night in 1977:

Are you honestly telling me you hear no difference? He sounds hoarse and low for pretty much all of 1975. In 1977, with a couple of exceptions (Seattle, Tempe) he's got a much better range and sounds strong.

Like I said, he's certainly not back to the level he was in his early years. But to say he couldn't sing is false. He's better in 77 than 73 or 75 that's for sure.

Well, you certainly made your point with this stark comparison, using the same song to boot. I hear a pretty significant difference here for sure. But this is the best Plant sounded in 77 and wasnt the norm. It seems to be true that Plant was in better form in 77, on the whole, than in 75. However, it's still obvious that he's just a shell of his former self even on the good nights in 77. Sick Again was a "husky voice" Plant song to begin with, so it fits in with his post 73 style. But on songs like WLL, Black Dog and Stairway, he just can't do the job. One of my first boots was the BBC sessions, long before its official release, and I remember being amazed that Plant could hit all those high notes with such power and ease. Then when I got my first 77 bootleg years later (slim pickins back then, no internet) I was mightily disappointed with Plant's voice and Jimmy's playing. I thought they were supposed to get better with practice, not worse.

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6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I take it you're judging his vocals by his range? Yes, Plant had a completely different range after 72. But in 73 and 75 he struggled not only with range, but with constant throat problems which caused him to sound hoarse for the first three numbers. In 77 he was at least able to gain control back and sing with confidence.

This is a good observation and I agree.

 

6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

As for Page, he never truly hit 73 level, but there are a few moments in 77 where he played very close on a technical level. "Even the best nights had Jimmy in sloppy mode". I gotta strongly disagree with that and I'm super critical of Page. Maybe 75, but he regained some control of his syncopation in 77 and had better phrasing. 75 Page is an articulation disaster.

The closest I heard Page to 73 form was May 18, 1975 at EC. Over the Hills and some other tunes had him playing surprisingly well! No Quarter from 2-14-75 is fantastic too and there are others to choose from, but they definitely lack the fluidity, clarity and precision of, say, Europe 73, Japan 71 and others. Sometimes I'll listen to a whole bunch of 77 gigs without listening to anything else. I'll get on a kick like this and it will last a few weeks. My ears get accustomed to the sound and style of 77 and it sounds pretty good. Then I'll put 3-22-73 on and it's just mind blowing. Immediately I can tell that Jimmy was on another level. Maybe a few levels better, not just one level.

Thinking back, my first two boots were Blueberry Hill and BBC. Both shows were devastating! I had them for a long time before I finally got a copy of their final show in 1980. I was reading Hammer of the Gods at the time and was so into Zeppelin. I couldn't wait to get home from school and put the tape in and give it a listen. I was shocked. I wondered what happened to the band! The Stairway solo was terrible. The tone was terrible. The black dog solo was horrible. Everything sounded like shit, but I wouldn't admit it until years later, to be honest. Now I'm able to be honest about this stuff, because I'm getting old lol

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Posted (edited)

When it comes to Plant, I basically have him in two categories: before he lost his voice and after he lost his voice. In the later years, after his voice broke, he had better nights and worse nights, but neither are even in the same realm as Plant before he lost his voice. That's what I'm trying to say. Put it this way, when it comes to post 73 (even much of 73, frankly), I had to *learn* to like Plant's style. I had to learn how to make the best of it and see it in as positive a manner as possible, whereas in the era of 69-72, no such effort is required. You just listen with your mouth hanging open.

I know these things aren't really welcome on a fan site, but I've been reading the comments here for a while, and you guys aren't a bunch of fanboy kids, so I know you can handle it. I'm not bashing Plant. I'm just being open and honest about how I see it.

Edited by Christopher Lees

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16 hours ago, Christopher Lees said:

Well, you certainly made your point with this stark comparison, using the same song to boot. I hear a pretty significant difference here for sure. But this is the best Plant sounded in 77 and wasnt the norm. It seems to be true that Plant was in better form in 77, on the whole, than in 75. However, it's still obvious that he's just a shell of his former self even on the good nights in 77. Sick Again was a "husky voice" Plant song to begin with, so it fits in with his post 73 style. But on songs like WLL, Black Dog and Stairway, he just can't do the job. One of my first boots was the BBC sessions, long before its official release, and I remember being amazed that Plant could hit all those high notes with such power and ease. Then when I got my first 77 bootleg years later (slim pickins back then, no internet) I was mightily disappointed with Plant's voice and Jimmy's playing. I thought they were supposed to get better with practice, not worse.

I hear you, and I do agree that Plant in 77 was still a shell of his former self. But I'd argue he was definitely better on the whole than he was in 75 or 73. He could at least sing many of the songs, even if his power was diminished. In 75 he was croaking and cracking all over the place and almost all the opening songs from the shows are downright cringeworthy, especially if you're new to live Zeppelin.

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i want that you know that the fans of the led zeppelin dont know the thuth about the group                                                                                                                                       --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                         

i want that you know that i will do the defense of 4/27/77 because i think that really this show isnt extravagant, but is a fine show and     really is a mistake who say that isnt good because the versions of sick again, nobodys fault but mine, in my time of dying                           since ive been loving you, ten years gone, achilles last stand and kashmir are among the best versions of these songs of the tour and      in my opinion i consider this because these versions are very beautiful and special, although they are not extravagant but                           there are seemingly ordinary shows, that hide special things and this is a good example and                                                                               this show how was one of the first soundboards released, and he made the joy of many people for a long time and
not only for the rarity but also for the quality and i think                                                                                                                                          that deserve this consideration that is good                                                                                                       
and thank you.                                                                                                                                                                                                              

 

Edited by marcio614

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i want that you know that the fans of the led zeppelin dont know the thuth about the group                                                                                                                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

i want that you know that a good observation is that, i prefer the analog releasing that have more potential and i think that the digital
even when improve the sound i think that the sound gets too artificialized, and loses the atmosphere and
in this case i have the 6/21/77 tape recorded from a low generation tape, with the original sound without processing and
the difference compared to any of these releases with digital sound is absurd in favor of the tape and
there are too a big quantity of examples
that i can say in favor of old tapes, and the old releasings in lps and the analog is best this i have sure and
have been made for a long time, and today with a better preparation would still be better and
soon i will post some example of old analog releasing, proving be best than the new digital releasing
but the old releases are not always better, because really often
the releases were badly mixed but when they were well made they were better that is good
and thank you.

 

 
 

                                                    

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From the aspect of being in the audience, I enjoyed the Robert of 75 even more than the Robert of 1977. This takes all thing into consideration, as a whole. I just like the way Robert moved around in 75 better than 77. I don't dislike 77 Robert. I just enjoyed the visual 75 Robert better. Probably has something to do with D&C, which I'm partial to over ALS.

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