The Next President of the USA will be?

[Joelmon]

I didn't know Chelsea had a brother.

[The Rover]

I'm Voting for Mitt 'cause He's the Shit ! !

[zero]

The next president of the usa will be?

sad because disco died..

the (likely) next president of russia is going to be the coolest president ever of any country.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071210/91721798.html

[BonzoEqualsGoodStuff]

I talked about this in the duplicate thread so I'm too lazy to elaborate, but I said Ron Paul because he's the least like a Republican or a Democrat and that's what we need damnit. The two party system is the reason our government is so corrupt. We need someone like him, someone with a Libertarian stand point. This is the first presidential election I've been able to participate in (I turned 18 less than a month after the last one), so I'm excited there's actually a candidate who doesn't suck for a change!

I don't know if he'll end up being the Republican candidate, though. If he's not, I'll vote for Conan O'Brien.

[cryingbluerain]

Great BJ Clinton line in Denver yesterday: "We just have to slow down our economy...."

http://patdollard.com/2008/01/bill-clinton...ave-the-planet/

[MS1]

It's just that the Clintons are doing an excellent job of making Obama look like the most Presidential canidate in the Democratic race rigt now.

I really don't have a horse in this race. I suppose I could force myself to vote for Huckabee (sort of the same way I did with GW Bush). But there is no way that I will EVER cast a vote for either McCain or Romney under any circumstances. It's actually getting to the point where Ron Paul is actually less of an irritation than either McCain and Romney.

I will probably just sit this one out or find an Independent to vote for. The current trend with the Republicans reminds of what Ronald Reagan used to say about the Democrats -- "I did't leave the Democratic Pary, the Democratic party left me."

Feels like the Republican party has left all of us conservatives behind.

Yeah, there was even a theory that you and I were the same person.

Looks like the best chance for the Republicans will be in four years after the Dems/Hillary do a "Jimmy Carter" on the country.

Only a real W diehard could think that there was anywhere to go from the Bush Admin but up.

[MS1]

I'm Voting for Mitt 'cause He's the Shit ! !

This needs an edit, I think . . . .

I'm not Voting for Mitt 'cause He's a Shit ! !

Fixed.

[cryingbluerain]

I am wondering if we will see an Obama-Edwards ticket?

If Hillary does not receive the nomination, I do not see her taking a VP role...

I have to revise this opinion based on the kissy-face during the Democrat debate last night which made it quite clear to everybody that the ticket will be either Hillary/Obama or vice versa.

[Hermit]

I have to revise this opinion based on the kissy-face during the Democrat debate last night which made it quite clear to everybody that the ticket will be either Hillary/Obama or vice versa.

ya gotta admit.. they both looked and sounded

fully good and ready to be President of the US!

---

here's a (non-presidential) campaign story..

or rather,.. blog report, that is..

that I'm sure you repubs will love.

Poll: Al Franken Ahead In Minnesota Senate Race!

February 1, 2008

We're taking a step back from our focus on presidential race coverage to bring this piece of news: For the first time ever, Al Franken is ahead of Sen. Norm Coleman (R-MN) in an opinion poll.

The survey conducted by the University of Minnesota puts Franken at 43% to Coleman's 40%, hardly a good sign for the incumbent. Previous polls all gave Coleman the lead, initially a wide one when Franken declared, but eventually a much narrower one.

*source*

[wanna be drummer]

A guy at my work (Libertarian) says that if HIllary gets the ticket, he's considering moving to Canada or Mexico or something. That's how scared of her health care policy he is, and that's how scared we all should be

[Hermit]

A guy at my work (Libertarian) says that if HIllary gets the ticket, he's considering moving to Canada or Mexico or something. That's how scared of her health care policy he is, and that's how scared we all should be

Its quite possible, aint it, that you and your buddy's

fear is directly proportional to your ignorance*?

Under Hillary's proposed plan, those who are happy with their current health care coverage will be able to keep their current coverage. Those who currently do not have health care coverage and those who are unhappy with their current health care coverage will have an opportunity to get the same health care coverage plan that members of Congress have. The plan will be funded by rolling back Bush's tax cuts for the top 1% of the wealthiest Americans (which, btw,includes the Clintons and the Obamas) and by savings reaped from cleaning up the waste and abuse taking place under the current health care sytsem.

So tell me, wanna be,.. what exactly is it about Hillary's health care plan that we should all fear?

Whether you fear it or not, I suggest you start getting used to the idea.

Like it or not, bro,.. universal health care is finally coming to America.

* ..of the universal health care plans being offered by Obama and Clinton.

[Big Klu]

If Billary wins, I too will consider moving to Canada or Mexico or something.

Her monotone voice, Jack Nicholson-era Joker smile and crazy cackling laugh would rival Bushco's retarded hickspeak.

.....consequently SNL is probably rooting for her to win.

[Hermit]

If Billary wins, I too will consider moving to Canada or Mexico or something.

Her monotone voice, Jack Nicholson-era Joker smile and crazy cackling laugh would rival Bushco's retarded hickspeak.

Should Hillary win the nomination and the general election, all I have to

say to you, brother Big Klu, is.. ¡Disfrute de su vida en México, hermano!

It seems to me that people who loathe Hillary have a personal problem. Not a problem with Hillary, mind you, but a personal problem. Their loathing is clearly a personal projection onto Hillary rather than being about Hillary. The fact of the matter is that while one can certainly disagree with Hillary's povs and policies, and can find aspects about her looks or her voice or her laugh that they don't find appealing, there is simply nothing about her as a human being that warrants her being loathed and hated. Sure, she has her flaws; but who doesn't? Petty personal attacks notwithstanding, the truth remains: Hillary is extremely smart; she's thoughtful, she's caring, and she's compassionate. Anyone who can't see that is blinded by their own biases.

If she is elected as the first woman POTUS it won't be for

any other reasons than she's earned it and she deserves it.

..imho. [personal projections included. ]

Having said that...

Obama for President in '08!!

.

[Del Zeppnile]

So tell me, wanna be,.. what exactly is it about Hillary's health care plan that we should all fear?

Not that it matters to me, but Hillary's healthcare plan will almost certainly get McCain the Presidency if he is the Republican nominee. Because HillaryCare 2.0 puts her even further to the left than McCain already is. It makes McCain the moderate that the vast majority of democrats (who basically always decide on the presidency) want.

Have you forgotten that Hillarycare lost the Democrats both houses of congress and ushered in Newt Gingrich and the 'contract with America'?

[cryingbluerain]

The fact of the matter is that while one can certainly disagree with Hillary's povs and policies, and can find aspects about her looks or her voice or her laugh that they don't find appealing, there is simply nothing about her as a human being that warrants her being loathed and hated.

I don't like her but I am more worried about what her husband would do if she were to get in office.

Bill Clinton: Rogue Co-President in Waiting

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327709,00.html

[allthekingshorses]

Not that it matters to me, but Hillary's healthcare plan will almost certainly get McCain the Presidency if he is the Republican nominee. Because HillaryCare 2.0 puts her even further to the left than McCain already is. It makes McCain the moderate that the vast majority of democrats (who basically always decide on the presidency) want.

Have you forgotten that Hillarycare lost the Democrats both houses of congress and ushered in Newt Gingrich and the 'contract with America'?

And not that we have to worry too much because Barack is going to get the nomination.

Either way the difference this time around is the people..... record numbers of voters in the primaries.. more people are coming out and voting this time around. The Dems have "W" to thank for that.

I really think after the last 2 Bush "wins" that people aren't taking any chances.

[Mrs. Plant]

John McCain will win. He has the ability to beat Hill and Obama. But we all know he isn't actually conservative. Conservatives have no chance this go round sadly. Sad this nation is so divided.

[wanna be drummer]

Its quite possible, aint it, that you and your buddy's

fear is directly proportional to your ignorance*?

Must you start every conversation with this?

Under Hillary's proposed plan, those who are happy with their current health care coverage will be able to keep their current coverage. Those who currently do not have health care coverage and those who are unhappy with their current health care coverage will have an opportunity to get the same health care coverage plan that members of Congress have. The plan will be funded by rolling back Bush's tax cuts for the top 1% of the wealthiest Americans (which, btw,includes the Clintons and the Obamas) and by savings reaped from cleaning up the waste and abuse taking place under the current health care sytsem.

So tell me, wanna be,.. what exactly is it about Hillary's health care plan that we should all fear?

Well lets see, it would be mandatory for businesses to pay or help pay for health insurance. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Why in the hell should a business have to help pay for their employees insurance??

And those tax roll backs. Cool. Now if I apply myself and start making a good deal of money, I'll be getting punished for it . It will cost over $100 billion, and expand the government even further. I think the government is allocating too much stolen wealth to give out freely as they please. As Ron Paul put it, "The federal government decided long ago that it knew how to manage your health care better than you." Hillarys health care plans won't do any good. How will the government suddenly, overnight become a decent health care provider? Because we throw money at it? Doubtful. Government run business is going to hell. Look at our where our education is going. Maybe we should give the Department of education 100 billion more dollars and see if it all of a sudden, magically transforms into a good system. Why would health care be any different?

Simply put, her health care plan sounds great, but I don't think it will work. Yes her tax rolbacks would pay for it (taking $110 billion from people just for knowing how to make money, sounds great! ) but the federal government will ruin it like it ruins everything else

Whether you fear it or not, I suggest you start getting used to the idea.

Like it or not, bro,.. universal health care is finally coming to America.

But where will the Canadians go for health care now?

[manderlyh]

I just got back from seeing Obama speak. I woke up late--I (thought I) set my alarm for 6am, when it was really set for 7. Obama was scheduled to speak at 8:30. I arrived on campus at 7:45, after having to park at a Wendy's because all of the university's 15,000 parking spaces were full. I had talked to my friend who was already inside--she had a seat saved for me.

I got to the venue, and there was a line that snaked all the way around the venue, out around our football stadium, and down the road near the river! It was crazy! By the time I got in line, within less than a minute there were probably 300+ people behind me. I actually called my friend and said that I might not make it in.

They had planned for a lot less people to show up. While I was in line waiting to get in, my friend called me and said they were ripping down Barrack's stage to make more room. I ended up getting in, and the reports were that they had to turn a few thousand people away. The venue's capacity is 15,000.

The speech finally started at close to 9:30. I am convinced that Obama's my man! Sadly, I didn't have my camera with me because it said on the news that they were not allowing them, but the Idaho Democrats had given cameras the okay.

He's a great speaker. I was entertained and excited and proud to be there. He was quite funny and honest. I'm going to vote in the caucus on Tuesday. After they had to reconfigure the venue, they still had to turn away people. They put up loud speakers outside so people that were denied entry could still hear the speech. He cracked up the crowd when he said, "And they said that Idaho didn't have any Democrats."

He also make a joke about being related to Dick Cheney:

He even referenced a recent story showing that he is a distant relative of current vice president Dick Cheney.

"The name of my cousin Dick Cheney will not be on the ballot. That was really embarrassing when the news came out! When they do these surveys, you hope you're related to someone cool - Dick Cheney... that was really a let down," Obama said to laughs.

I also wanted to add that this guy thinks just like me when it comes to education! I actually yelled out and hooted a few times when he talked about what thought about education...

"We can help rural communities build new schools. I won't just talk about how great teachers are, I will reward them by paying them higher salaries," he said.

Obama said he would change the current system of accountability to eliminate "high stakes tests." He wants the educational system to focus on the humanities as well as core subjects.

Obama touted his plan to give a $4,000 per student tuition credit to students, in exchange for community service and volunteerism time.

My friend Michelle looked at me right before it started and said in her Canadian accent, "Wow. This is bigger than the Stones concert." ROFL

Local News Report on Obama's visit

[Hermit]

Not that it matters to me, but Hillary's healthcare plan will almost certainly get McCain the Presidency if he is the Republican nominee. Because HillaryCare 2.0 puts her even further to the left than McCain already is. It makes McCain the moderate that the vast majority of democrats (who basically always decide on the presidency) want.

Have you forgotten that Hillarycare lost the Democrats both houses of congress and ushered in Newt Gingrich and the 'contract with America'?

Uhh.. since when are you the expert on what 'the vast majority of democrats want'?

Fwiw,.. 1. the vast majority of democrats are not looking at John McCain favorably these days,.. not even in comparison to Hillary Clinton. 2. given the fact that Hillary is a progressive liberal, her political pov has always been, and will always be, well to the left of McCain and any other repub candidate, and 3. Hillary being to the left of McCain and any other repub candidate appeals to the vast majority of democrats. Democrats want a progressive president, Del.

I can't help but notice that your post is noticeably lacking in any depth or detail (you know,.. 'substance') with regard to criticisms about universal health care, Delberto. Attaching Hillary's name to the idea does not in and of itself make universal health care a bad idea. Both Hillary and Obama are ready and eager to have the health care debate with whoever the republican nominee turns out to be.

Anyway,.. forget about HillaryCare, you best start worrying about BarackCare.

McCain vs Obama.. debating healthcare.. I look forward to that debate!

[Hermit]

I just got back from seeing Obama speak. I woke up late--I (thought I) set my alarm for 6am, when it was really set for 7. Obama was scheduled to speak at 8:30. I arrived on campus at 7:45, after having to park at a Wendy's because all of the university's 15,000 parking spaces were full. I had talked to my friend who was already inside--she had a seat saved for me.

I got to the venue, and there was a line that snaked all the way around the venue, out around our football stadium, and down the road near the river! It was crazy! By the time I got in line, within less than a minute there were probably 300+ people behind me. I actually called my friend and said that I might not make it in.

They had planned for a lot less people to show up. While I was in line waiting to get in, my friend called me and said they were ripping down Barrack's stage to make more room. I ended up getting in, and the reports were that they had to turn a few thousand people away. The venue's capacity is 15,000.

The speech finally started at close to 9:30. I am convinced that Obama's my man! Sadly, I didn't have my camera with me because it said on the news that they were not allowing them, but the Idaho Democrats had given cameras the okay.

He's a great speaker. I was entertained and excited and proud to be there. He was quite funny and honest. I'm going to vote in the caucus on Tuesday. After they had to reconfigure the venue, they still had to turn away people. They put up loud speakers outside so people that were denied entry could still hear the speech. He cracked up the crowd when he said, "And they said that Idaho didn't have any Democrats."

He also make a joke about being related to Dick Cheney:

He even referenced a recent story showing that he is a distant relative of current vice president Dick Cheney.

"The name of my cousin Dick Cheney will not be on the ballot. That was really embarrassing when the news came out! When they do these surveys, you hope you're related to someone cool - Dick Cheney... that was really a let down," Obama said to laughs.

I also wanted to add that this guy thinks just like me when it comes to education! I actually yelled out and hooted a few times when he talked about what thought about education...

"We can help rural communities build new schools. I won't just talk about how great teachers are, I will reward them by paying them higher salaries," he said.

Obama said he would change the current system of accountability to eliminate "high stakes tests." He wants the educational system to focus on the humanities as well as core subjects.

Obama touted his plan to give a $4,000 per student tuition credit to students, in exchange for community service and volunteerism time.

My friend Michelle looked at me right before it started and said in her Canadian accent, "Wow. This is bigger than the Stones concert." ROFL

Local News Report on Obama's visit

Thats awesome, Mandy! Thanks for the first-hand report!

Did you feel like you were witnessing history in the making?

[manderlyh]

Thats awesome, Mandy! Thanks for the first-hand report!

Did you feel like you were witnessing history in the making?

I did. I figured I should so see a presidential candidate because they very rarely come to speak in Idaho--especially the democrats.

If he doesn't make it (but it looks like he's going to be our demorcatic man), at least I can say I saw him speak, right? He was great!

When he made that comment about how it was a let down to find out that he was related to Dick Cheney he said something like "you hope it's someone cool--Paul Revere, Willie Mays...but NOT Dick Cheney...not cool." I laughed my butt off!

Idaho Statesman's Report on Obama's visit

[bigstickbonzo]

Maybe Hillary's health plan can help cure her syndrome of man-bear-piginitus.

[manderlyh]

Man bear pig is a real problem, bigstick! Seriously!

[Hermit]

Must you start every conversation with this?

Only when it seems applicable.

Why do you ask, bud? Does it seem to you that

many of my responses to you start that way?

Well lets see, it would be mandatory for businesses to pay or help pay for health insurance. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Why in the hell should a business have to help pay for their employees insurance??

Most employers already pay for part, or most, of their employees' healthcare plans. You know, its usually part of one's "employee benefits" package. The rationale is that by covering groups of people.. say, a group of employees from one business.. costs are reduced in comparison to everyone having individual plans. When you enter the workforce you'll learn what an advantage it is to work for an employer who offers a good health care benefits package.

How much do you currently pay for health care insurance, wanna be?

How much do you figure you'll pay under Hillary or Obama's plans?

And those tax roll backs. Cool. Now if I apply myself and start making a good deal of money, I'll be getting punished for it. *cheer*

If you consider that "contributing back to society" would be "punishment" for

your future-imagined success, perhaps you need a change of mindset, bro.

Fwiw, here's my perspective: Bush cut taxes; those tax cuts clearly benefit the wealthiest Americans moreso than everyone else. In a time of war and a huge budget deficit, his tax cuts are entirely irresponsible. The wealthiest Americans do not need a cut in their taxes, and America cannot afford to give them a cut in their taxes. These simple truths do not matter to Bush and his greedy cronies and supporters. Hillary and Barack are proposing that the irresponsible Bush tax tax cuts be rolled back on the wealthiest 1% of Americans (a tax bracket that does not include you, I might add). What that means is that Hillary and Barack are proposing nothing more than returning the tax level to the pre-tax-cut level for the wealthiest 1% of Americans (a tax bracket that does include both Hillary and Barack, I might add). For political purposes republicans call the Obama and Clinton plans "tax increases". Will their taxes go up, yes, but not because Hillary and Barack will raise their taxes, rather because they will be undoing/rolling back Bush's irresponsible tax cuts and returning the tax to it previous.. and more fiscally responsible.. level.

It's a matter of semantics and perspective. Repbs use semantics that reflect their

selfish and greedy pov; dems use semantics that reflect their compassionate pov.

Hillary and Obama are proposing a policy in which they give and others benefit.

Bush and the repubs put into place policies that benefit themselves at the expense

of disenfranchised Americans and average, hard working middle class Americans.

You've chosen the perspective that appeals to you. A perspective that you, like Bush and

his cronies, somehow seem to believe is consistent with your Christian principles and values.

..right?

[kinda like your belief that you eating factory farmed meat products is

somehow consistent with your anti-animal abuse principles and values.

..right?]

It will cost over $100 billion, and expand the government even further. I think the government is allocating too much stolen wealth to give out freely as they please. As Ron Paul put it, "The federal government decided long ago that it knew how to manage your health care better than you." Hillarys health care plans won't do any good.

Tell that to the 47 million Americans who are currently without any health care

coverage and who will get health care coverage under Hillary and Obama's plans.

How will the government suddenly, overnight become a decent health care provider?

The gov't health care plan that members of Congress currently have is the same coverage that will be offered to every American under Hillary and Barack's plans. If its good enough for members of Congress, why would you think it wont be good enough for everyone else?

Because we throw money at it? Doubtful. Government run business is going to hell. Look at our where our education is going. Maybe we should give the Department of education 100 billion more dollars and see if it all of a sudden, magically transforms into a good system. Why would health care be any different?

Its not about "throwing money at it"; its about a complete change in philosophy, from a philosophy that only the well off get quality health care to a philosophy that in America, every citizen should have quality health care; from a philosophy that says its ok that 47 million Americans go without healthcare coverage, to a philosophy that recognizes the immorality of 47 million Americans going without health care coverage.

What you seem to fail to recognize, bud, is that you (well, your parents anyway) are already paying for the health care of those who currently have no coverage. When someone without health care has to go to an ER for basic medical care that would otherwise be provided by a family physician, the ER (hospital) ends up eating the cost, sort of. What the hospital then does is seek reimbursement from the federal govt (ie, the tax payers) and the hospital also makes up for some of their losses by raising the cost of hospital services across the board... which means you and me ending up paying $100 for pair of hospital socks (as an example).

In the long run we the tax payers also end up paying for the costs related to the lack of preventive health care for people who have no coverage. Providing every American with health care coverage.. including preventive health care.. will mean the overall long term cost in the health care system will go down.. saving all of us money.

If you buy into the republican "government stealing your money" spin, bro, you'll never

be able to objectively and effectively assess or redress the health care crisis in America.

Simply put, her health care plan sounds great, but I don't think it will work.

Imho, a healthy dose (pardon the pun) of skepticism is a good thing.

But this much we know for sure: the current system is broken. It is unconscionable that there are 47 million people in America who are without any health care coverage. We also know that HMOs and pharmaceutical companies are reaping in billions of dollars a year at the expense of the American populace. We alos know that we, the taxpayers, are already paying for the health care treatment of the poor and disenfranchised and its driving costs up for everyone. The people benefitting the most from the current system are big health care corporations.

Its time for a new approach. New approaches take courage, and there will always be those who resist new approaches.. who resist CHANGE. But the simple fact of the matter is that there is no stopping change; everything changes. In America, right now, its time for a change in our health care system. Barack Obama and/or Hillary Clinton will lead the charge.. are leading the charge.. to bring that change to America.

When equal rights for women was being debated in America one of the arguments against it.. an alarmist argument put forth by status quo supporting conservatives, btw.. was "if women are afforded equal rights, men and women will end up sharing the same public restrooms!". The current republican argument that universal health care amounts to "socialized" medicine (a suggestion that universal health care will lead to America becoming a socialist nation) is equally as absurdly alarmist as the 'equal rights for women will lead to co-ed public restrooms' argument was back then.

Get on the bus, or get out of the way bro!

Yes her tax rolbacks would pay for it (taking $110 billion from people just for knowing how to make money, sounds great! *rolleyes* ) but the federal government will ruin it like it ruins everything else

Afaic, a healthy dose of cynicism about government is a really good thing.

Fwiw,.. in the big scheme of things,.. "aking $110 billion from people" who can afford it.. the benefit of the health of our nation and our people, is worth it. The amount of that $100 billion that will come from each of those who will be asked to contribute, will be an amount that is affordable, if not negligible, to them. You won't see me shedding any tears over the person who may have to reduce their budget for furnishing their fourth home so that our disenfranchised fellow American citizens can get basic health care. Besides,.. Bill and Hillary are not anyone to do anything that they themselves are unwilling to do. But they are doing something that Bush has never done: they are asking Americans to sacrifice a little for the betterment of our country.

Kudos to them, I say!

"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country

can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."

~ John F Kennedy, 1961 *transcript of the full speech*

But where will the Canadians go for health care now?

Where do Americans go for prescription medications?

Importation of prescription drugs from Canada rises despite

FDA's best efforts to protect Big Pharma's profits in the U.S.

The FDA is losing its battle waged against the pocketbooks of American consumers: people are importing more prescription drugs than ever, and they're getting them from Canada, Mexico and even the U.K. This concerns the FDA, of course, which has gone all out to protect the profits of Big Pharma by attempting to monopolize the U.S. drug market in much the way that the Chicago mob from a hundred years ago tried to control the flow of alcohol.

The FDA's financial war against the American people isn't winning any friends at the states, either, where state budgets for health care demand that states seek cheaper sources of prescription drugs wherever possible. State Governors, in particular, are fed up with the FDA's corruption and they're speaking out against the agency's monopolistic, strongarm tactics by going public with their own information. Governor Jim Doyle of Wisconson puts a link to Canadian pharmacies right on his web site, much to the anger of the FDA, and outright tells people that the FDA's drug racket is a sham. The Governor of Minnesota has long fought the FDA as well. In fact, there are a growing number of Governors and city officials who are now accusing the FDA of conspiracy and violating federal law in order to protect the profits of U.S. pharmaceutical companies.

*source/remainder of article*

As always,.. thanks for the discussion, wanna be bro.

[edited for typos]