Presidential Debate

[Pb Derigable]

I agree with Obama's position on foreign relations. That is the one thing I hated about Bush in 2000. He was clueless on a global scale. And John McCain and Sarah Palin on Foreign Affairs.... that's down right scary.

We need problem solvers not fighters. John McCain should join the re-military if he wants to fight, but I don't want someone who can't even look a democrat in the eye trying to go to other countries and have discussions with other leaders that we disapprove of. These are crazy times.... we can't afford another President who is unwilling to work with the rest of the people on this planet.

The problem with the Bush foreign policy is he is letting the UN do most of the work. Darfur is happening under the eye of the UN, so was Somalia. I think Bush should've taken a bigger stance on these countries that harbor terrorism. The problem is Russia and China need Iran money, so they are unwilling to do anything about it.

Obama is more like Bush on foreign policy than McCain is. McCain will park a aircraft carrier on every country that gives us a dirty look. Obama will talk to these rouge nations, and we will have to pay for anything that comes from it. Either it be Military supplies or just straight cash to stop being mean to us.

That is the only downside to the iraq war i seen, that we are unable to get support for anything because of it. No matter what, Iran will get a nuke if we went to iraq or not. The problem is they will have no resistance now, but if we never went into Iraq, we would be able to and have to attack Iran with Saddam a few miles south. So we were going to war no matter what. But now, If Iseral does attack (I doubt now) we are in better position is Iraq and we have gained the military exp. to fight a war like that.

Just maybe, maybe the UN will act on Iran. Than iran will have to give it up knowing that 55,000 marines are sitting a few miles south, along with the entire Iraq army.

Obama will solve the problem, I just want to know when the side effect will happen. We gave supplies to the people in Afghanistan to defeat the Russians and after they beat the Russians, they bombed us. Iran may not be able to lob a nuke towards Israel, but they will be able to send more suicide bombers in. and maybe they get one in the NYC subway system.

But it is almost a guarantee thing Iran will go nuclear, no matter who is president and no matter if we were in Iraq or not.

[Del Zeppnile]

Hey Del, please let me know your thoughts on why, what had been a pretty neutral relationship with Russia over the last several years, has now escalated once again to near cold war proportions? I'm not being a smart ass here, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. Not knowing all the ins and outs of these relationships it appears to me that the cumulation of the last 8 years of our foreign affairs policies now have Russia pretty damn pissed off at us again. They are pumping Iran, and other countries that deplore us, up militarily and monetarily.

I liked it better when we had a better relationship with Russia...

How do you think McCain is going to approach this situation to cool it down instead of heat it up?

Thanks!

I can answer that Medhb, they the russians see us as weak right now so this emboldens the enemy ( they are still the enemy ) as much as we like the russian people and probably visaversa. The governments are still at each other.

It's all about perception, when the soviet union collapsed we no longer saw them as a threat. They had nothing to bargain with. Now with the war, economy and worldwide perception of our positions they percieve us as weak so this is has emboldened them.

Remeber their leader was/is KGB

Dzldoc,

I would pretty much concur with this, and I would also add that right now Putin is very aware that he can exploit our position on several levels. First of all we are still very much engaged in Iraq, and even if he believes we are 'distracted' in the middle east; he certainly is aware that from a political point, most Americans and our allies are weary of conflict right now. And secondly, given that our present administration is in "lame duck mode", Putin knows that even if the President wanted to make a move against him, he really has no political backing to do so. And for that reason Putin is right now making moves that he knows will eventually be opposed by a new administration. But for now they are chess moves that are not really going to be challenged. I'm sure the Russians will draw down to some extent. But for now it is their chance to exploit this for all they can.

Medhb,

I don't believe we have ever really been on "good relations" with Russia. Neutral like you seemed to say, but only because we and our western allies were pumping BILLIONS of dollars into Russia in hopes that economic reform would eventually lead to poltical reform. I for one have always been skeptical of that policy, as I believe the only thing you can trust a Russian to do... is to be a Russian. And obviously as it is now apperant, the KGB/Putin has been in charge of the country all along. Happy to take our billions as a sort of 'tribute' to them for easing our fears about the control of their vast nuclear arms cache. But still, exploiting us and our goodwill. Not that I believe they really appreciate 'goodwill' anyway. Afterall, they are Russians.

But in a way I actually am glad that the Russians are showing their true colors again. If anything, this current display of raw aggression in Georgia and the Caspian sea, may be cause for our NATO allies to once again work for a renewed vigilance against Russia, and any nation who would attempt to threaten Western Europe and our allies. Russia needs to be careful that they don't end up isolated and despised once again.

[ally]

I can answer that Medhb, they the russians see us as weak right now so this emboldens the enemy ( they are still the enemy ) as much as we like the russian people and probably visaversa. The governments are still at each other.

It's all about perception, when the soviet union collapsed we no longer saw them as a threat. They had nothing to bargain with. Now with the war, economy and worldwide perception of our positions they percieve us as weak so this is has emboldened them.

Remeber their leader was/is KGB

And Putin won't be alone ! Whom ever the new president is, he will be faced with plenty of foreign policy challenges let alone domestic. With everyones focus on the middle east, we seem to have forgotten that there are plenty of other hot spots that could pose major problems for the world if, Russia, China, North Korea, and they're satillites choose to make stratigic moves. The west really needs to get it's act together and it needs to do so quickly

[SunChild]

You're tellin' US!? Now scare yourself more and realize we have a generation coming up that doesn't even remember when this alternate universe could only exist in fascist regimes......

Now watch Sarah Palin and just imagine her one heartbeat away. Now try sleeping.

Truth. Well said, and very scary.

[SunChild]

Please explain to us how your interpretation of John McCain's body language equals racism? This has got to be the most foolish and absurd arguement yet made in this thread.

Is anyone other than you making a racism charge against John McCain? Is the Obama camp making that claim? Of course not. And the reason is because it is just plain dumb. What is your personal perspective that causes you to see 'race' as a factor in this debate? Are you African-American and possibly conditioned to use that as an excuse? Are you some other minority that maybe has a similar perspective... although wrong in my opinion. For someone from Bishop California you sure don't sound like most of the folks I have encountered up that way in my many travels through there. Do you live in Bishop proper or are you one of those living along North Barlow Lane South of 395 and North of West Line street if you know what I mean? Help me understand where your racial hatred towards whites is coming from?

You have never seen a racist face to face with an African American? What utopia do you live in that you don't know how they behave, how uncomfortable they become, the way they can't look a black person in the face, or else they can't do it without a strange little smirk coming over them? And that's a century and a half after the slave owners lost the civil war...

But ok, back in your court then: what explains McCain's body language toward Obama to you?

Ah, you know where the Paiute Reservation is. Hey, are you one of those people who think "those brown skinned folks should go back where they came from...?" I actually heard of one red necked moron saying that out loud at the Paiute Palace gas station... whew. Priceless ignorance and racism abounds; telling yourself it doesn't is just a way to pretend you're enlightened without having to actually go through any kind of "truth and reconciliation" process.

Bishop is a great town. Full of a huge array of different people... climbers, hikers, skiers and boarders, world class Olympic and extreme athletes, hippies, cowboys AND Indians, and tourists from all over the globe. It's a wonderful place for liberal and progressive folks, in fact.

[wanna be drummer]

You ever seen a racist face to face with a European-American?

[SunChild]

I have no idea what you're talking about. You simply biased and I'm showing you.

Actually that wasn't your point. You never talked about Obama looking him in the eye at all during that post.

Sorry, but you're wrong

You asked me what my point was, and I answered:

"When someone is that close to me, grasping with both hands in such a warm greeting, why, personally, just me you know - well, and everyone else I know - we'd be directly meeting his eyes with our own.

Check it out next time you have occasion to shake someone's hands in that kind of grip."

The context of the discussion was whether McCain could meet Obama's eyes, regardless of the contents of one post.

[I have got a horsey]

I believe the only thing you can trust a Russian to do... is to be a Russian. And obviously as it is now apperant, the KGB/Putin has been in charge of the country all along. Happy to take our billions as a sort of 'tribute' to them for easing our fears about the control of their vast nuclear arms cache. But still, exploiting us and our goodwill. Not that I believe they really appreciate 'goodwill' anyway. Afterall, they are Russians.

But in a way I actually am glad that the Russians are showing their true colors again.

Nice to see Del boy showing his true colours too...

If anyone else had said what you said, yet substituted Russians for Jews, you would've been screaming and bellowing that they were anti-semitic...

You really are the Bill O'Reilly of this board...

I think it would be sad to be someone like you because in the end you're only really fooling yourself

[SunChild]

You ever seen a racist face to face with a European-American?

Yes, because we all know how the black man has kept whitey down...

(Wanna be skin head is more like it.)

[SunChild]

Don't you get it, Suz? You're not allowed to support Barack Obama because you agree with his policies, or because you think he's a swell guy, or because you think he can help fix this broken country.

We only support him because we've been hypnotized by his secret Muslim anti-Christ evil Liberal devil eyes.

(I think I got all the Rush O'Hannity talking points in there)

Heh.

And here I thought it was voo-doo.

(Lord help us all...)

[wanna be drummer]

The context of the discussion was whether McCain could meet Obama's eyes, regardless of the contents of one post.

The purpose of posts is that their contents show the context. Thus, you are still incorrect.

This is a dumb conversation, I'm done on the subject

Yes, because we all know how the black man has kept whitey down...

(Wanna be skin head is more like it.)

Ah, a Democrat that resorts to insults for no reason whatsoever. Someone tell Electricmage

And how does that matter? Should black racists be given a get-away-with-racism-free card simply because of race? MLK would be horrified if anyone suggested that.

I'm white, but my ancestors never had slaves nor were they racist. They were from Ireland and came here in the early 1900s, so have my people ever kept the black man down? No, not at all so your point is irrelevant.

That being said, have you ever seen a black racist facing a white man? You never answered.

[Knebby]

Yes, because we all know how the black man has kept whitey down...

I can't stop laughing.

[allthekingshorses]

The only candidate in this campaign that has used the race card is Obama.

You don't think all the Muslim smears or extreme coverage of Rev. Wright had anything to do with race? Come on, now if Sarah Palin has to give a press conference to defend herself against her church... then I will be impressed( because it would mean Sarah Palin's pastor was getting coverage on the same level as Rev. Wright and also because it would mean she would actually give a press conference). But if she doesn't start getting called out on her pastors and churches then it is, in the end.. racism that caused everyone to attack Barack on his church/pastor. Barack is not the one playing the "race card". The man is half black, get over it.

Or like srplane would say.... ACCEPT IT... BARACK OBAMA WAS NOT PICKED FOR YOU!

[electricmage]

I provided to you the interview where Kissinger just said yesterday that Barrack Obama was WRONG about the conditions for meeting with the Iranian president. You heard what he said yesterday, and obvioulsy McCain's position is in line with Kissingers, while Obama just got it wrong.

Now you can either respond to that or choose to ignore it, but the facts don't just go away because you are unwilling to acknowlege what Henry Kissinger said.

You provided me with an interview, of Kissinger backing what McCain said, after a debate, in which a person he is advising was a part of...

Do you not get that? Kissinger obviously back tracked here. And the proof is on video.

[electricmage]

The purpose of posts is that their contents show the context. Thus, you are still incorrect.

This is a dumb conversation, I'm done on the subject

Ah, a Democrat that resorts to insults for no reason whatsoever. Someone tell Electricmage

And how does that matter? Should black racists be given a get-away-with-racism-free card simply because of race? MLK would be horrified if anyone suggested that.

I'm white, but my ancestors never had slaves nor were they racist. They were from Ireland and came here in the early 1900s, so have my people ever kept the black man down? No, not at all so your point is irrelevant.

That being said, have you ever seen a black racist facing a white man? You never answered.

Ok republican. It's ok for someone like Del, to spout senseless name-calling, because you are clearly on his side. But when a Liberal does it.... Look out.

You and Del need to have your heads re-examined. I'm glad there are so many stupid people in this country... Shows character.

Typical Douche behavior.

[Del Zeppnile]

You have never seen a racist face to face with an African American? What utopia do you live in that you don't know how they behave, how uncomfortable they become, the way they can't look a black person in the face, or else they can't do it without a strange little smirk coming over them? And that's a century and a half after the slave owners lost the civil war...

Making a racism charge against John McCain is a very big thing. And you make this charge without any reservations at all. Your charge is only based on your personal interpretation of his body language, without any supporting comments or statements by McCain to suggest that he has a racial bias against Barrack Obama.

I find your reasoning in this to be obscene and discraceful. For you to make the racism charge so easily and based basically ON NOTHING, does not make you appear to be either progressive or intellligent in my opinion. I can only conclude that you are basically a kook... probably on some substance or needing "an adjusment" of a substance by a licenced professional.

But ok, back in your court then: what explains McCain's body language toward Obama to you?

I don't have to explain, it does not need "explaining" in my opinion. However, it is you who have made a charge of RACISM in this, so it is you who will need to prove that or just shut your mouth.

Ah, you know where the Paiute Reservation is. Hey, are you one of those people who think "those brown skinned folks should go back where they came from...?" I actually heard of one red necked moron saying that out loud at the Paiute Palace gas station... whew. Priceless ignorance and racism abounds; telling yourself it doesn't is just a way to pretend you're enlightened without having to actually go through any kind of "truth and reconciliation" process.

I asked the question because it is you who has made race the issue. And you have made it in such a way that is not supported by logic in my opinion. So I asked the question (since you opened the door on race) to try and see where you were coming from, but you did not answer my question. Are you African-American? Or are you Paiute living on the reservation?

Not that it should matter, and despite your experience with so called "red necks" at the Paiute Palace gas station, you still didn't answer the question.

Bishop is a great town. Full of a huge array of different people... climbers, hikers, skiers and boarders, world class Olympic and extreme athletes, hippies, cowboys AND Indians, and tourists from all over the globe. It's a wonderful place for liberal and progressive folks, in fact.

Not to mention a small subculture of people, either living on or off the reservation, who themselves are very vocal in their own racial bias and anger towards white people in general.

Just wondering if there is a connection there with you -- just based on your biggoted remarks against John McCain.

But maybe you are really just a total kook as I suspect. That would be the simple answer I guess.

[redrum]

It's because he has a small penis. Which is normally the case for republicans.

Wasn't John Holmes a Republican?

[Del Zeppnile]

Nice to see Del boy showing his true colours too...

If anyone else had said what you said, yet substituted Russians for Jews, you would've been screaming and bellowing that they were anti-semitic...

You really are the Bill O'Reilly of this board...

I think it would be sad to be someone like you because in the end you're only really fooling yourself

My comments about Putin and 'Russians' was in a political context not a racial one. Despite viewing the Russians as our eternal advisaries, I have plenty of times voiced my respect for them in the fact that they are a pragmatic and proud people, willing to act in their own interests when they want to. It is just the their interests are usually in competition with our interests... and just about everyone elses too.

I would not expect you to understand that competition, or the context from which I was commenting on it. Especially being that you are not the citizen of a global superpower nation.

As far as I am concerned, your comments are pretty much coming from the sidelines in this game anyway. Like a 10 year old girl giving an opinion on what is going on during a professional football game....

An NFL Football game.

But nice to hear from you again sparkles.

[Del Zeppnile]

You provided me with an interview, of Kissinger backing what McCain said, after a debate, in which a person he is advising was a part of...

Do you not get that? Kissinger obviously back tracked here. And the proof is on video.

Actually Kissinger's position has not changed.

It has been Obama's misunderstanding of Kissinger's postition that has been in a constant state of evolution.

Obama should just admit that he got it wrong and move on. But since Obama can only parrot foreign policy positions that he hears from other people (even when he gets them wrong), I don't expect Obama to come up with anything that makes sense on that issue all on his own.

Obama is much more qualified to talk about entitlement programs and raising taxes on other hard working Americans. Something closer to his heart, and that of his South Chicago constituents.

[Medhb]

Well, this thread has quickly erroded. Thanks to all who participated in a meaningful fashion.

I guess we have a new thread to look forward to soon, the VP debates

For the record I agree with what allthekingshorses said about what kind of leadership we need to work our way out of this, however I appreciate others views as well and there certainly are valid points. We can agree that the Russian people themselves are great people but we should all be concerned about what the Russian leaders have up their sleeve.

I don't see McCain's disprepect of Obama as racial, just general disrespect all the way around and I think that the disdain he is displaying won't help him in the long run. Just my opinion.

[redrum]

Well, this thread has quickly erroded.

When the penis's start coming out then it's time to leave.

[wanna be drummer]

Ok republican. It's ok for someone like Del, to spout senseless name-calling, because you are clearly on his side. But when a Liberal does it.... Look out.

I point it out when someone name calls ME personally. I couldn't care less if you do it to Del nor if he does it you. I only really care when it happens to me or when it just gets out of control.

You and Del need to have your heads re-examined. I'm glad there are so many stupid people in this country... Shows character.

What?? You're the one who came in here and ruined the thread. I didn't do anything wrong whatsoever. You're just getting pissy because you don't like Del. Tough shit.

Typical Douche behavior.

Coming from he that talks about penises and just completely trashed a thread.

And care to show where I did anything wrong other than I pointed out that someone name called who was a lefty? Go ahead look. You won't find anything.

But it's ok, I forgive you

[wanna be drummer]

Forgot to add that I'm not Republican electrimage, but nice try bud

[Pb Derigable]

Forgot to add that I'm not Republican electrimage, but nice try bud

so you don't have a small penis?

Im may be a conservative nutjob

but atleast Im not a liberal

With no nuts

or no job.

[alucard]

_______________________________________

As far as I am concerned, your comments are pretty much coming from the sidelines in this game anyway. Like a 10 year old girl giving an opinion on what is going on during a professional football game....