Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[Aquamarine]

Collaboration is the key!

[ledded1]

The crux of it is elementary. Your mail has been accusatory. Mine has been defensive. Plain and simple. You smack me down, hugs and kisses are not to be expected in return. Now we've both been asked by the mods to stop this arguing on the open board. What say you we do so, and stop mucking up Steve's thread?

Hey stop flirting with her, she's spoken for.

Sorry Steve, I will no longer contibute to the derailing of your thread.

[SunChild]

Claude Nobs owes Jimmy no apology. I believe notice was not given further in advance because all interested parties were offering Jimmy ample opportunity to summon up the wherewithal to at least appear, if not perform. Claude ensured full refunds at the door were offered for any ticket holder who preferred one.

If you must know what the big deal is it's that Ahmet passed away fairly soonafter.

As one who was at his tribute in Montreux, this is still a highly sensitive and personal issue for me. You see, to this day I cannot understand why Jimmy willfully failed to honor his commitment to Ahmet in life, and it's the precise reason why so far as I was concerned he and Harvey Goldsmith could stick their 02 gig where the sun don't shine.

Nothing personal, just raw emotions.

OK, first, about Ahmet Ertegun dying - you're holding Page responsible because he didn't see in his scything ball that Ertegun was several months away from death due to falling at a future Rolling Stones concert?

Let me see if I have the rest straight, as well - Page told Nobs in good time that he would not be performing at a tribute attended by many people besides Page. IOW, Page bowing out hardly meant the proceedings needed to come to a screeching halt.

We do not know what, if anything, he communicated personally to Ertegun; well, anyway, I don't. His public reason for not attending was a quite reasonable one - he'd recently had surgery. But people keep implying that wasn't the REAL reason, and somehow whatever the REAL reason, which they either don't know or won't/can't reveal, it was selfish of Mr. Page.

These are the same people who will say about Robert Plant with a straight face "He's not selfish, he's just doing what he feels like," and who don't think it was a big deal he couldn't stop rehearsing for two days to attend the American Recording Academy's bestowal of a Lifetime Achievement Grammy even though it was clearly of some importance to others in his circle of acquaintances. I'm not saying Plant didn't have that right, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy; apparently only certain people may do what they feel is most important to them. Others have to do things to please everyone.

So, Nobs or whoever else was responsible for such things chose not to make Jimmy's withdrawal public until very far along in the proceedings, yet it's Page's responsibility the organizers didn't take him at his word from the start and alert the ticket buyers? Better to announce he'd changed his mind and would be there after all. Or were they interested in how many tickets they could sell with Page's name on the program?

Or are you saying Page himself misled the organizers, was wishy-washy, said yes, then no, then maybe?

Honestly, I would appreciate having the point clarified.

Maybe this will help with the raw emotions: the only person I saw mention Ahmet Ertegun in public, sending wishes that he get well while he was still alive (although unconcious), was Mr. Jimmy Page at the British HOF awards ceremony in 2006, when Led Zeppelin was inducted. (Not saying there weren't others, just saying Page is the only person I saw or heard.)

[SunChild]

Seemslike you are spreading your love around behind the scenes then SC. And I thought I was the only one in your life.

I am disappointed at your two timing me with The Evester

What's good for to the goose, and all that.

[SunChild]

The crux of it is elementary. Your mail has been accusatory. Mine has been defensive. Plain and simple. You smack me down, hugs and kisses are not to be expected in return. Now we've both been asked by the mods to stop this arguing on the open board. What say you we do so, and stop mucking up Steve's thread?

My mail at least has been mail. You're the one who brought it out in public.

Meet you on the DL, as I both originally suggested many days ago, and have been doing.

Edited August 28, 2008 by SunChild

[AllisonAdler]

Could we just all possibly agree that Robert and Jimmy have equally good reasons, in their own minds, for doing whatever it is that they do? No-one here or elsewhere is so morally pure as to be able to judge anyone else, and I think it's fair to say that these are two grown men dealing with what life has to offer them as they see fit. And quite right, too.

edited to add: nevertheless, expressing upset about Jimmy's non-appearance at Montreux is very different indeed from accusing Robert of being 'selfish' because he's doing what he always said he was going to do.

OK, first, about Ahmet Ertegun dying - you're holding Page responsible because he didn't see in his scrying ball that Ertegun was several months away from death due to falling at a future Rolling Stones concert?

Let me see if I have the rest straight, as well - Page told Nobs in good time that he would not be performing at a tribute attended by many people besides Page. IOW, Page bowing out hardly meant the proceedings needed to come to a screeching halt.

We do not know what, if anything, he communicated personally to Ertegun; well, anyway, I don't. His public reason for not attending was a quite reasonable one - he'd recently had surgery. But people keep implying that wasn't the REAL reason, and somehow whatever the REAL reason, which they either don't know or won't/can't reveal, it was selfish of Mr. Page.

These are the same people who will say about Robert Plant with a straight face "He's not selfish, he's just doing what he feels like," and who don't think it was a big deal he couldn't stop rehearsing for two days to attend the American Recording Academy's bestowal of a Lifetime Achievement Grammy even though it was clearly of some importance to others in his circle of acquaintances. I'm not saying Plant didn't have that right, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy; apparently only certain people may do what they feel is most important to them. Others have to do things to please everyone.

So, Nobs or whoever else was responsible for such things chose not to make Jimmy's withdrawal public until very far along in the proceedings, yet it's Page's responsibility the organizers didn't take him at his word from the start and alert the ticket buyers? Better to announce he'd changed his mind and would be there after all. Or were they interested in how many tickets they could sell with Page's name on the program?

Or are you saying Page himself misled the organizers, was wishy-washy, said yes, then no, then maybe?

Honestly, I would appreciate having the point clarified.

Maybe this will help with the raw emotions: the only person I saw mention Ahmet Ertegun in public, sending wishes that he get well while he was still alive (although unconcious), was Mr. Jimmy Page at the British HOF awards ceremony in 2006, when Led Zeppelin was inducted. (Not saying there weren't others, just saying Page is the only person I saw or heard.)

Edited August 28, 2008 by AllisonAdler

[Medhb]

Could we just all possibly agree that Robert and Jimmy have equally good reasons, in their own minds, for doing whatever it is that they do? No-one here or elsewhere is so morally pure as to be able to judge anyone else, and I think it's fair to say that these are two grown men dealing with what life has to offer them as they see fit. And quite right, too.

[Rorer714]

Ohhhhhh Allison......Your Aim Is True.......

[AllisonAdler]

^ I loooove that song

[Rorer714]

^ I loooove that song

Me too! That's my second favorite Elvis

[SteveAJones]

Or are you saying Page himself misled the organizers, was wishy-washy, said yes, then no, then maybe? Honestly, I would appreciate having the point clarified.

It's pretty clear to me what I'm saying is I believe that an unfortunate situation prior to the event was improperly handled and Ahmet's death accentuated this fact. If you can

provide any substantiation whatsoever Jimmy's absence was communicated with no

equivocation and well in advance I will entertain a change to my viewpoint.

Edited August 28, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Could we just all possibly agree that Robert and Jimmy have equally good reasons, in their own minds, for doing whatever it is that they do?

In their own minds this probably holds true and they are only human.

[SteveAJones]

Hey stop flirting with her, she's spoken for.

Sorry Steve, I will no longer contibute to the derailing of your thread.

Thanks Paul. I cannot fathom why they just don't put each other on ignore, but it's not

a mystery I wish to examine.

[SunChild]

Could we just all possibly agree that Robert and Jimmy have equally good reasons, in their own minds, for doing whatever it is that they do? No-one here or elsewhere is so morally pure as to be able to judge anyone else, and I think it's fair to say that these are two grown men dealing with what life has to offer them as they see fit. And quite right, too.

edited to add: nevertheless, expressing upset about Jimmy's non-appearance at Montreux is very different indeed from accusing Robert of being 'selfish' because he's doing what he always said he was going to do.

To your first point, I agree completely. In fact, that's my point, too! Page just seems to get held to a different standard on that score.

Being upset at his non-appearance is different -"what rotten luck about that unfortunate knee surgery/broken finger, I was looking forward to seeing him perform."

Folks rolling their eyes and making snarky comments about how he COULD'VE been there, not to mention implying he lied and misled people, is something else again, however.

And it was NOT his fault the word didn't go out until the night before, putting him in an embarassing situation that should have been avoided.

It's pretty clear to me what I'm saying is I believe that an unfortunate situation prior to the event was improperly handled and Ahmet's death accentuated this fact. If you can

provide any substantiation whatsoever Jimmy's absence was communicated with no

equivocation and well in advance I will entertain a change to my viewpoint.

Yes. It was improperly handled by the promoters of the tribute.

I believe Allison did PM you to your satisfaction on the "no equivocation and well in advance" score. I only know what I read here in this thread:

“Furthermore, the promoters at Montreux apparently knew well beforehand that Pagey wasn't going to show, and the knee thing was indeed the 'spin'. That is the actual story--I was there (at Montreux and in Selfridges!!).”

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?s...st&p=234620

and

“…it was only a last-minute thing (lie or whatever) on the part of the promoters--they announced it the evening before the show and had apparently known about it for weeks!”

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?s...st&p=234687

It may have been "spin," though he DID have the surgery, as you acknowledge.

My other point is, damn if he's not one person who's completely entitled to decide not to perform with Plant, one bloody time.

[Knebby]

He wasn't going to perform with Plant. Their performances would have been seperate.

[SteveAJones]

He wasn't going to perform with Plant. Their performances would have been seperate.

FWIW:

Page & Plant to Play at Montreux Jazz Festival

From: LED-ZEPPELIN.COM 2006.04.27

Jimmy Page and Robert Plant are scheduled to perform together at the upcoming Montreux Jazz Festival for a tribute to Atlantic Record's founder Ahmet Ertegun on June 30th. Also scheduled on the bill are: Jeff Beck, Solomon Burke, Ben E. King and others.

[Knebby]

Exactly - FWIW.

[Cecil.]

I honestly haven't heard this before. That was such a short tour. Can you be more specific?

During the Royal Albert Hall show !983, a Metronome, Guitar tuner & widget(something?) were stolen from his dressing room. It was mentioned in a music paper at the time.

[widget]

During the Royal Albert Hall show !983, a Metronome, Guitar tuner & widget(something?) were stolen from his dressing room. It was mentioned in a music paper at the time.

Do you have the sources? I don't recall the story. It maybe true. Looks like another night of digging up the newspapers

Meg

[beatbo]

it's true. some money too. look it up if you like....

[Cecil.]

Do you have the sources? I don't recall the story. It maybe true. Looks like another night of digging up the newspapers

Meg

Alas no if I had the foresight to keep clippings,videos etc I would contribute a lot more to the forum?

[Cecil.]

it's true. some money too. look it up if you like....

[/quote/]

Don't think it was money, Beatbo more something to do with a guitar!

Edited August 31, 2008 by Cecil.

[widget]

Don't think it was money, Beatbo more something to do with a guitar!

It might be possible a guitar tuner and money was taken but if it was a guitar itself I'm sure it would have been more widely known. Apart from the Black Beauty being "lost" during transit in Canada, the only time I recall Page had a guitar nicked was in Australia during his time with the Yardbirds.

Meg

[widget]

Steve, any plans for some book reviews? There has been a spate of new Zeppelin titles recently. I finally picked up this morning Whole Lotta Led: The Illustrated History of the Heaviest Band of All Time by Jon Bream.

[SteveAJones]

Steve, any plans for some book reviews? There has been a spate of new Zeppelin titles recently. I finally picked up this morning Whole Lotta Led: The Illustrated History of the Heaviest Band of All Time by Jon Bream.

Well, not within this thread; the new books should have their own review threads.