~tangerine~ Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 She displayed her own agenda when it came to how she did or did not answer questions. She did seem evasive and that was probably a mistake. She'll do that if she assumes office also, chances are. It's probably a habit. It would have been easier to just answer the questions. It made her appear weak to behave as if she is too uncomfortable to answer the questions that Senator Biden had no problem addressing. Of course he's used to questions from his experience in the Senate. It's possible that in the past she has controlled what happens during her public address exchanges, whereas he can answer just about any question that comes his way with a fair amount of ease. I did not notice a particular accent in her speech pattern. Maybe it was subtle. This is right on! She avoided answering many questions and unfortunately Joe only called her on one, but for anyone paying attention, it was noticeable and odd. She also changed the subject many times. Just proves to me, she was trained and crammed lots of information to regurgitate, and when she forgot what to say, she would discuss "energy". I did notice (maybe because i read something into it i wanted to) she sure cuddled up close to Joe after the debate Awww, who could blame her? I think i found "one" thing in common with her, lol, an affection for the dear man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I thought Biden did a great job of attacking her positions without sounding smug or being overly harsh. That would get a "sexist" label, even though she should be treated like any other candidate and not handled with kid gloves because she's a chick. I was worried that Joe might be a little too OTT but he did a great job of reigning it in and being brash at right moments. Palin just sounded like a babbling fool. It sounded like she had a speech memorized in her head and she was trying to put the talking points in the right order and she kept going of on tangents and not answering the questions right......it was ridiculous. The GOP will naturally say she won because she didn't shit herself or pass out on the lectern. When you lower the expectations that far, anything short of a coma is what'll work. Again, right on! And again, seriously, did you see the affectionate demeanor after the debate (when she cuddled up to Joe) I'm trying to find a human element to her... but VP, no way! Stay in Alaska, Sarah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricmage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 This is right on! She avoided answering many questions and unfortunately Joe only called her on one, but for anyone paying attention, it was noticeable and odd. She also changed the subject many times. Just proves to me, she was trained and crammed lots of information to regurgitate, and when she forgot what to say, she would discuss "energy". I did notice (maybe because i read something into it i wanted to) she sure cuddled up close to Joe after the debate Awww, who could blame her? I think i found "one" thing in common with her, lol, an affection for the dear man. This was a major issue for me as well. She kept saying the same old shit when she lacked a clear answer. I'm surprised that the press is this blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 She did better than I thought she would, but her whole "I may not answer the questions the way you want" thing was bullshit. It's code for, "I'm not answering the actual question because I can't." She's definately got character and personality and a great family but no way, Jose. Spunk is cute, but knowledge rules. It was no contest. On another note: She sounds like she's from Minnesota/Wisconsin! Is that a typical accent from Alaska? If anyone knows, I'd be interested. She could so easily be from my neck of the woods with that accent. I totally agree Suz. I think that the Republicans will view this as a smashing success because she WAS able to avoid the questions and change the topic to the items she was comfortable speaking to. She definatley is a quick study because she showed that all of her cramming did indeed sink in to a degree. One of the things I found disturbing is that it was clear she had an agenda and could not adapt to anything outside that agenda. She said at least twice that Obama would raise taxes for middle class people and Biden quickly called her on that yet she still used that lie in her closing argument. She did NOT succesfully seperate McCain politics from Bush's politics even though she continued to chant 'change'. Biden drove home quite well that there has been nothing from the McCain camp indicating 'how' they would be different. Palin resorted too much to how she did things in Alaska. I loved how Biden pointed out he'd love to be able to give all Americans the energy kicback of $1000 that she was able to obtain from the big oil companies for her consituents. No, don't tax them more at a national level....just pump it into Alaska, that's OK. She was condesending to Biden when she said "Owwww, Jowwwww, there you gowwww agin" If he would have said anything like that to her I'm sure based on her gender alone some people would have been in an uproar. In the end Biden provided clear steps the Obama administration would take when asked, Palin evaded. All in all I would call it a draw. To the Dems of course Biden came out ahead, and of course to the Repubs Palin did...but to those in the middle? I don't know if they are sophisticated enough to recognize her evasive manuvers, they may be too blinded by the Joe six pack/hockey mom persona she projects. Sadly, at the end of the debate, Biden made a very poignent point, saying in essence you don't have to be a 'mom' to feel worry and loss. To the point where he was so emotional over his own losses that he was clearly near tears....and where were her 'God Bless Ya's" then. She ignored his obvious pain to drive home a point that she had already addressed redundantly. That was kinda sad. I guess it irritated her that her position of being a 'mother' made her more in touch with humanity was squashed. That all said, she did a great job. She was confident, didn't stumble too much...when she was stumped she just slowed down her speaking enough to catch her notes and pull out one of the zingers they had written up for her (white flag?) I don't know why her administration can't except a time line for getting out of Iraq. In business we call that a project plan. Before you even start a project you are supposed to have a damn good idea of what it will cost, what your milestones are, your contingencies and risks. At all costs you meet that projected end date or the project is a failure. We're how many years into this project and can't even say we can complete it in a year and a half? Biden made a great point about....if we really want to accomlish the mission of 'catching terrorists' we have to BE where the terrorists ARE. But Kudos Sarah, you weren't exactly effective but ya held up pretty good! And you have a beautiful smile. I think it was nice afterwards that their families mingled and seemed to sincerely enjoy it. Oh, one last though....does anyone agree that the VP should have more power? Hmmm, already...gunning for more!! Ahahah! You go girl! HA! Please, it will never happen but ya can't blame a girl for tryin can ya now? (Palin speak) Nice commentary all, thanks for sharing your observations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi all, quote name='electricmage' date='Oct 2 2008, 11:53 PM' post='263084'] This was a major issue for me as well. She kept saying the same old shit when she lacked a clear answer. I'm surprised that the press is this blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 This was a major issue for me as well. She kept saying the same old shit when she lacked a clear answer. I'm surprised that the press is this blind. Well, for what it's worth, Time in their debate score card made mention of that. They said that she was very general in her answers and veered off-topic when it showed she didn't have a clear-cut answer to give. Which was apparent the first question in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Fell asleep, thought I would check in with the most informative political news source on the net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanelectroGod Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I think Chris Rocks latest HBO special pretty much sums up this election for me. Palin isn't ready to be president. And I'm not saying that because she is a woman. Her replies were well rehearsed, and when the question wasn't something she could handle, she went back to saying the same stuff. Her stock is falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 My jaw dropped when Palin said, on stage, in front of everyone, that she wasn't going to answer the questions the way the moderator wanted her to. She was just going to talk to America about whatever the hell she felt like. Then she didn't. She didn't answer a single question. One of my favorite times was the question of the Bush Administration's handling of Israeli and Palestine, and Biden gives a list of specific examples of failure, including the election of Hamas in the West Bank, Hezbollah, etc. Palin went off on a talking point completely unrelated to the question at hand. Unreal. But since she strung together complete sentences at a 5th grade level, its a victory for her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Personally, I think Palin should stay in Alaska and club baby seals. She looks like that sort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Personally, I think Palin should stay in Alaska and club baby seals. She looks like that sort... Well that is an interesting first post. But I wouldn't advise that you get on my bad side so quickly. Unless you want to be 'Thunderized" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricmage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 And Biden's pretending he's still middle class. Biden is, and if I'm not mistaken, in second place (in terms of senators) to have the lowest income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 One of my favorite times was the question of the Bush Administration's handling of Israeli and Palestine, and Biden gives a list of specific examples of failure, including the election of Hamas in the West Bank, Hezbollah, etc. Palin went off on a talking point completely unrelated to the question at hand. Unreal. Biden made at least 10 or 12 statements that were just flat out untrue, including many regarding McCain's voting record (look soon for the poltical ads pointing this out). For some people Biden comes of like he is talking about what he knows, or that they are actual facts. But what he actually does is just start moving his mouth. The man is a well spring of hot air and bs. But since she strung together complete sentences at a 5th grade level, its a victory for her? This debate was a huge victory for Palin. She did even better than McCain, and I think you will see the McCain campaign get a nice bump from this very good night with Sarah Palin. The fact that you hate Palin is obvious Beth. You are such a hateful person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricmage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi all, quote name='electricmage' date='Oct 2 2008, 11:53 PM' post='263084'] This was a major issue for me as well. She kept saying the same old shit when she lacked a clear answer. I'm surprised that the press is this blind. Why? KB The media was fixated on her performance. She didn't have a deer in headlights moment which was supposedly, pretty well expected. They didn't really judge her by her reasoning. Only that she stood her ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricmage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Biden made at least 10 or 12 statements that were just flat out untrue, including many regarding McCain's voting record (look soon for the poltical ads pointing this out). For some people Biden comes of like he is talking about what he knows, or that they are actual facts. But what he actually does is just start moving his mouth. The man is a well spring of hot air and bs. This debate was a huge victory for Palin. She did even better than McCain, and I think you will see the McCain campaign get a nice bump from this very good night with Sarah Palin. The fact that you hate Palin is obvious Beth. You are such a hateful person. Funny Del, pretty much everyone on the political circuit is saying the exact opposite of Biden. Shit, what would they know? I guess you are right again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 But since she strung together complete sentences at a 5th grade level, its a victory for her? I think you hit the nail on the head I'm pretty sure the only folks that have defended her here have been men, also; which I find interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricmage Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 I was also offended at the tone she used to speak to America. Like we're all a bunch of idiots... Not very fitting of a person running for the office of the VP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 This debate was a huge victory for Palin. She did even better than McCain, and I think you will see the McCain campaign get a nice bump from this very good night with Sarah Palin. Oh yes, it WAS a huge victory for her personally. She survived it. A victory for her party though? It doesn't appear so....Gallup poll shows Obama leading McCain by 5 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Senator Biden attended the University of Delaware in Newark and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts with a double major in history and political science, and subsequently graduated law school. In the 110th U.S. Congress, he serves on the following committees: Committee on Foreign Relations (chairman) As chairman of the full committee Biden is an ex officio member of each subcommittee. Committee on the Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust Competition Policy and Consumer Rights Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs (chairman) Subcommittee on Human Rights and the Law Subcommittee on Immigration, Border Security, and Refugees Subcommittee on Technology Terrorism and Homeland Security Caucus on International Narcotics Control (co-chairman) Biden has been co-chair of the NATO Observer Group in the Senate (source: wiki). Governor Palin plainly enjoyed the opportunity to meet and talk with Senator Biden. Her state of Alaska is the one that most closely borders Russia. She is probably genuinely curious about what he knows in regard to United States foreign policy. Their debate proceeded in a cordial manner even though they have different perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 From a fairly superficial viewpoint - ie not knowing a lot about her in depth - Palin isn't respected over here in the UK for the most part. She's seen as a bit ridiculous -partly after we were told that she claimed that she visited Ireland on a fact finding tour when she didn't actually get off the plane, and also the no-passport before 2007 thing. Seems insane for a possible future international stateswoman. I'm prepared to be shot down ( Del ) - I realise I'm not as well-informed about her as you lot are! Just giving you the general impression from the UK media. (And don't worry - not many politicians we respect over here either ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Biden made at least 10 or 12 statements that were just flat out untrue, including many regarding McCain's voting record (look soon for the poltical ads pointing this out). For some people Biden comes of like he is talking about what he knows, or that they are actual facts. But what he actually does is just start moving his mouth. The man is a well spring of hot air and bs. This debate was a huge victory for Palin. She did even better than McCain, and I think you will see the McCain campaign get a nice bump from this very good night with Sarah Palin. Despite what YOU say about Joe Biden, he is very knowledgeable about any and all issues that were discussed in the debate and a world of many others. Joe Biden is well respected among his colleagues. He is also very intelligent. He is also "middle class" even if after many years of hard work he has made a nice life for him and his family. Biden can relate to and has a deep desire to improve the quality of life among the middle class. This country so sorely needs that now. Sarah Palin is as out of touch with ordinary Americans, but she tried hard to use her version of charisma to fake us out. Sorry didn't work for me. I have read what she is about way before this debate and it's not what this country needs to thrive (or for that matter survive the "Wonder Years" aka The Bush Administration). SAD you say Palin did better than McCain, since he is actually the one running for President. IF Palin did better than McCain, he must really be a moron cause Palin sure ain't bright. lol... "I'm a Washington Outsider", "I have only been at this for five weeks", "doggone it!" OOOHHHKKKKKKAAAYYYY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrycja Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Ok so I watched the debates in rerun, and offer some observations: Palin succeeded in not choking, but when you're down so low you have to look up to see the bottom, it's hardly a high standard. When even Republicans are admitting they hope she doesn't do the party any more harm, you know you're in a deep hole. So I guess she succeeded, but the very low expectations must be kept in mind. Biden was far more reserved (in terms of cutting comebacks not personality, of which he has in spades) than expected. This is no doubt a direct result of the position Palin put herself in. Had she been a worthy candidate, Biden would likely have been far less verbally tepid. So in order not to come across as a condescending dick, he had to hold back. A LOT. He's got to be given at least as much credit for the adjustments he made and for keeping his composure (God knows I was spewing at my screen whenever I heard her folksy dodging of questions) as Palin has been for not screwing up (again, not the high standard you want for someone who may potentially run your fine country). Her folksyisms grated early and often. Gosh darn it, I'm jus sayin' that folks may wanna think twice about votin' for a hockey mom gal in a newcular family who's been at this for only five weeks. Say it ain't so, Sarah, say it ain't so. SNL nailed it when they zeroed in on her getting cutesy when she couldn't give specific convincing evidence to support her position. Oh wait. She did correct Biden (who said 'drill drill drill') about that all important "The slogan's 'drill baby drill' Joe" ahahahahaha! Wait to step up. I know she countered him on several other points before anyone gets their shorts in a knot. It's just that if she feels the need to correct Biden on that and have less to say about several other far more relevant issues, it looks bad. He didn't even have to do any work there, she exposed herself quite well, thank you. Approval rates consistently went down when she relied too much on generalities delivered in aaw shucks everyday speak. They ought to coach her out of that habit right quick. If you look at Biden just in terms debating, he really was exceptional. He appealed to both reason and emotion, was factual and convincing to those who were looking for rigorous arguments and those who were looking for reassurance. He appealed to the urban and rural voters, both of whom would likely have found it condescending had he only given general everyman appeals, or only complex government talk. It's really hard to find that balance and really easy to fall off. A very impressive performance. Biden is very charismatic, but Palin no doubt has her appeal, too. She's not a stiff like McCain so in that sense she compliments him well. If you look at the real time approval lines throughout the debate, men's were consistently higher for Palin (it shouldn't be divided into gender because the subtle implication is that it's not only about the preparedness of defending their respective positions, but that's reality, people get swayed in many ways, perceived or not. But that McCain chose to go that route - please nobody tell me she was the best VP choice on political merit, we're past that - speaks volumes about his knowing he's losing grasp of this election. But folksy sex appeal only goes so far). The point is that Palin appeals to a niche of those like her, and thankfully there's enough diversity that there aren't enough to make a significant dent in poll results. In terms of substance and details of information as well as counter arguments, Biden won hands down. He even seemed to know McCain's record better than than she did. Palin helped get herself out of object of soundbite and satire status, and I guess helped McCain by not hurting their campaign further, but again, that was all about making up for lost opportunities, trying to get UP to breaking even. Honestly she did better than I thought she would (who said she'd wear long her hair down and a jacket? Hmm...good call ) and enjoyed this debate more than the presidential one. They were more human and personable and it didn't have the subtext of anger and resentment (McCain seemed really pissed off throughout his debate with BO). But if for some inexplicable reason the McCain/Palin ticket wins, sorry, but the U.S. will simply be getting what it deserves. There's no way that this time around people can't say they couldn't see it coming. The end of U.S. dominance (not to mention international respect) will solidify. If early polls are any indication, that doesn't look likely. Darn tootin' right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longdistancewinner Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 From a fairly superficial viewpoint - ie not knowing a lot about her in depth - Palin isn't respected over here in the UK for the most part. She's seen as a bit ridiculous -partly after we were told that she claimed that she visited Ireland on a fact finding tour when she didn't actually get off the plane, and also the no-passport before 2007 thing. Seems insane for a possible future international stateswoman. I'm prepared to be shot down ( Del ) - I realise I'm not as well-informed about her as you lot are! Just giving you the general impression from the UK media. (And don't worry - not many politicians we respect over here either ) Yes, I remember that one! Fact finding tour...Ha! But you're right. She isn't respected. She's fast becoming an increasingly comic figure after Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Well that is an interesting first post. But I wouldn't advise that you get on my bad side so quickly. Unless you want to be 'Thunderized" Just like the blind leading the blind isn't it Del? How many fingers am I holding up? Clues? Pick the longest one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrycja Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 From a fairly superficial viewpoint - ie not knowing a lot about her in depth - Palin isn't respected over here in the UK for the most part. She's seen as a bit ridiculous -partly after we were told that she claimed that she visited Ireland on a fact finding tour when she didn't actually get off the plane, and also the no-passport before 2007 thing. Seems insane for a possible future international stateswoman. I'm prepared to be shot down ( Del ) - I realise I'm not as well-informed about her as you lot are! Just giving you the general impression from the UK media. (And don't worry - not many politicians we respect over here either ) Luckily, it doesn't take too long, unless you're zeroing in on what she doesn't know, then the list gets considerably longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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