Jimmy Page confirms 2018 release(s)

[paplbojo]

Why they didn't think to multitrack their 1977 LA shows is beyond me. They just should have done it. Poor managing. 

[tmtomh]

15 minutes ago, paplbojo said:

Why they didn't think to multitrack their 1977 LA shows is beyond me. They just should have done it. Poor managing. 

They were going to, near the end of the tour as they had done in '73 and '75. But the final leg of the tour got cut short when Robert Plant's son died, so they never played the show(s) that were slated to be multitrack recorded.

[IpMan]

4 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

Because Midnight Moonlight is rubbish, featuring the usual Paul Rodgers' cheesy lyrics, an over-wrought vocal performance, 80s production (including fretless bass) and a disjointed stop-start drum arrangement which kills the song.

It was the Firm trying to do a Zeppelin number and failing miserably.

I would much rather have had Swan Song than two alt mixes of Rock 'n' Roll with slightly louder tambourines.

To me SS is a great snapshot of the creative process, or a "portal" as Page likes to call it.

Your opinion aside, I was talking from Page's likely perspective. I too feel Swan Song is superior and that MM was not very good but my, nor your opinion really matter in the end unfortunately.

[Boleskinner]

1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Your opinion aside, I was talking from Page's likely perspective. I too feel Swan Song is superior and that MM was not very good but my, nor your opinion really matter in the end unfortunately.

It's not just us, I don't think the surviving members of Zep consider any fans' wishes when they're mulling over posthumous releases.

Lots of bands or estates of bands have a more interactive relationship with their fan base, but Zep's surviving members still think it's the 70s and non-communication and mystique are the way forward.

As I've said before, they're all super rich and Plant has an active, successful solo career, so there's no real motivation for them to release archive material, aside from posterity, publicity and the kids' inheritance.

[Stryder1978]

...I don't think Page will ever have a "swan Song" to his tweeking the Zeppelin catalog.  I can just see 5 years the re-remaster edition of each studio...complete with a limited edition Ross Halfin photo  auto-penned by page himself! 

[LedElvis75]

12 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

Because Midnight Moonlight is rubbish, featuring the usual Paul Rodgers' cheesy lyrics, an over-wrought vocal performance, 80s production (including fretless bass) and a disjointed stop-start drum arrangement which kills the song.

It was the Firm trying to do a Zeppelin number and failing miserably.

I would much rather have had Swan Song than two alt mixes of Rock 'n' Roll with slightly louder tambourines.

To me SS is a great snapshot of the creative process, or a "portal" as Page likes to call it.

Spot on.  SS is fantastic. Love Bonham's drumming on it.  It should've been released, IMO.

[badgeholder]

I don't get people wanting Page to release stuff they already have on bootleg. Whether it's Swan Song, or the longer All of My Love, or whatever, ya GOT IT, in real good quality, NOW. What's the point?

[porgie66]

9 hours ago, Boleskinner said:

It's not just us, I don't think the surviving members of Zep consider any fans' wishes when they're mulling over posthumous releases.

Lots of bands or estates of bands have a more interactive relationship with their fan base, but Zep's surviving members still think it's the 70s and non-communication and mystique are the way forward.

As I've said before, they're all super rich and Plant has an active, successful solo career, so there's no real motivation for them to release archive material, aside from posterity, publicity and the kids' inheritance.

I agree with this....which makes me wonder if Page and Plant in particular are not that proud of their live performances , especially post 1972. I think they have very high standards and just because hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of fans want to hear more live shows (cleaned up, EQd sound boards and the like) , that isn't enough to make them accept the flaws inherent in many live performances . I dunno....just a thought. 

[Boleskinner]

7 hours ago, porgie66 said:

I agree with this....which makes me wonder if Page and Plant in particular are not that proud of their live performances , especially post 1972. I think they have very high standards and just because hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of fans want to hear more live shows (cleaned up, EQd sound boards and the like) , that isn't enough to make them accept the flaws inherent in many live performances . I dunno....just a thought. 

I reckon that’s pretty close to what’s happening. Plant favours the early era stuff for sure.

[Mook]

16 hours ago, porgie66 said:

I agree with this....which makes me wonder if Page and Plant in particular are not that proud of their live performances , especially post 1972. I think they have very high standards and just because hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of fans want to hear more live shows (cleaned up, EQd sound boards and the like) , that isn't enough to make them accept the flaws inherent in many live performances . I dunno....just a thought. 

I think you're spot on there. They've released a load of '69-'73 stuff now & nothing seems to be forthcoming post '75 other than what we have on the DVD.

I think the best we can hope for in terms of later live stuff is the chronological live 'greatest hits', with some (Page tweeked) tracks from '75, '77 & Knebworth.

[rm2551]

If a chronological release is on the cards, lets hope a few choice tracks from the 1980 tour are cleaned up nicely and included. There are some real gems. More infrequent maybe, but a few killer tracks showing Page more "out there" than ever. It would also make a nice and natural book end as it was their last tour after all.

[Bong-Man]

I'm guessing Page is against remixing the studio albums into 5.1 surround sound as others have.  I believe he's even mentioned in interviews that those albums should always be presented as they were originally recorded.  That's good, because if 5.1 studio mixes eventually become part of this anniversary, and after already buying all the re-masters, that wouldn't make me very happy at all.

I'm still going with a complete live show from the early days and a separate live compilation.  Pure speculation though.

    

Quote

 

Because Midnight Moonlight is rubbish, featuring the usual Paul Rodgers' cheesy lyrics, an over-wrought vocal performance, 80s production (including fretless bass) and a disjointed stop-start drum arrangement which kills the song.

It was the Firm trying to do a Zeppelin number and failing miserably.

I would much rather have had Swan Song than two alt mixes of Rock 'n' Roll with slightly louder tambourines.

To me SS is a great snapshot of the creative process, or a "portal" as Page likes to call it.

 

Zep's unreleased studio version aside, I thought The Firm's live version was far superior to Jimmy's two years later on the "Outrider" Tour.  Jason proved Plant's point at the time that he wasn't yet up to snuff.  The boots from the "Outrider Tour" tell that tale pretty well.      

[Brigante]

The various excerpts from Swan Song that surfaced on Studio Magick sounded like disconnected 'pieces' that hadn't been assembled into a coherent song,
which backs up what Jimmy's said about it not being 'finished'.
But didn't Paul Rodgers say that when Jimmy gave him a cassette of Swan Song, it was 26 minutes long?
I dunno if he meant that Jimmy had finished it and shaped the various sections into a single, long piece or if the various sections added up to 26 minutesworth.
Either way, if Rodgers is even vaguely accurate, Jimmy's got a long demo of Swan Song somewhere!   
Comparing the Studio Magick excerpts with Midnight Moonlight, I'd say that the Firm did use all of the best bits - but yes, the end result would obviously have been far better
with Robert, Bonzo, Jonesy and no fretless chick singers or whatever!

[paplbojo]

On 3/26/2018 at 12:58 PM, porgie66 said:

I agree with this....which makes me wonder if Page and Plant in particular are not that proud of their live performances , especially post 1972. I think they have very high standards and just because hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of fans want to hear more live shows (cleaned up, EQd sound boards and the like) , that isn't enough to make them accept the flaws inherent in many live performances . I dunno....just a thought. 

As it pertains to Page I do not think so. Earl's Court and Knebworth can both be found on the DVD. There's no pro recorded stuff from 77 to release.

[gibsonfan159]

I think a problem with releasing something from the later years is that the best versions of half their set had already been done years before. Nobody really wants to hear the 75/77 versions of Rock And Roll, or Heartbreaker, or Black Dog, or TSRTS (Apart from 6/21). After everything that's already been released, it would be rehashing a lot of the same material and the critics would have a field day with them. This also makes me think that remastering and re-releasing the previous live album the same year as you plan to release another live album might be overkill. People outside the stronger fan base are gonna start rolling their eyes.

[gibsonfan159]

Double post.

[John M]

On 3/27/2018 at 12:46 PM, Brigante said:

The various excerpts from Swan Song that surfaced on Studio Magick sounded like disconnected 'pieces' that hadn't been assembled into a coherent song,
which backs up what Jimmy's said about it not being 'finished'.
But didn't Paul Rodgers say that when Jimmy gave him a cassette of Swan Song, it was 26 minutes long?
I dunno if he meant that Jimmy had finished it and shaped the various sections into a single, long piece or if the various sections added up to 26 minutesworth.
Either way, if Rodgers is even vaguely accurate, Jimmy's got a long demo of Swan Song somewhere!   
Comparing the Studio Magick excerpts with Midnight Moonlight, I'd say that the Firm did use all of the best bits - but yes, the end result would obviously have been far better
with Robert, Bonzo, Jonesy and no fretless chick singers or whatever!

My favorite parts of Swan Song are when Jones comes in on bass.  Such a killer tone!

[Boleskinner]

45 minutes ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I think a problem with releasing something from the later years is that the best versions of half their set had already been done years before. Nobody really wants to hear the 75/77 versions of Rock And Roll, or Heartbreaker, or Black Dog, or TSRTS (Apart from 6/21). After everything that's already been released, it would be rehashing a lot of the same material and the critics would have a field day with them. This also makes me think that remastering and re-releasing the previous live album the same year as you plan to release another live album might be overkill. People outside the stronger fan base are gonna start rolling their eyes.

If there was an abundance of multi-tracks then a best of the live years 68-80 would have been great.

Then a low-key collectors release of individual concerts to satisfy the die-hards.

[rm2551]

There is some stuff from 77, 79, 80 that is different enough it could stand up to the fair comment that it is already available from current live releases. The problem is, like others continue to point out, the lack of late tour multi-tracks. For a really representative "latter years" or more general compilation (beginning to end, all years represented somewhat) live release, Jimmy most certainly would have to polish boards and release them. This would not be a bad thing and I really hope Jimmy does test the waters of releasing something from a soundboard. There are some really good boards that could be worked to really good sounding releases with original source put through professional sound studios.

In some cases there are good SB's as well as good live audience tapes which potentially could also enhance some stuff???

I really wish even a single track was officially released from a SB - I swear that would indicate nothing is off the table.

[Crimson Avenger]

6 hours ago, gibsonfan159 said:

Nobody really wants to hear the 75/77 versions of Rock And Roll, or Heartbreaker, or Black Dog, or TSRTS

I do

Well, Heartbreaker anyway. There are some magnificent versions of that from 75-79.

I see your point, but the obvious response is that half the post 73 set is poorly represented or not represented at all by official releases. The newer songs obviously, but also some of the older ones. Going To California is at its best in 1977 for me, and the definitive OTHAFAs are from 75-77. There's plenty of quality performance-wise 75-80. But as has been pointed out already, much depends on the availability of acceptable recordings.

 

 

[gibsonfan159]

2 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

I do

Well, Heartbreaker anyway. There are some magnificent versions of that from 75-79.

I see your point, but the obvious response is that half the post 73 set is poorly represented or not represented at all by official releases. The newer songs obviously, but also some of the older ones. Going To California is at its best in 1977 for me, and the definitive OTHAFAs are from 75-77. There's plenty of quality performance-wise 75-80. But as has been pointed out already, much depends on the availability of acceptable recordings.

 

 

I certainly do too, but like you, I'm not just a casual fan. 

Plus, I think Page tried to represent the live latter day stuff on the DVD. Those Earls Court and Knebworth versions were really strong ones. You also have Robert not being happy with his voice for most of 75 and 77. So you know he's not gonna be gung ho about releasing stuff from that period.

[Crimson Avenger]

1 hour ago, gibsonfan159 said:

I certainly do too, but like you, I'm not just a casual fan. 

Plus, I think Page tried to represent the live latter day stuff on the DVD. Those Earls Court and Knebworth versions were really strong ones. You also have Robert not being happy with his voice for most of 75 and 77. So you know he's not gonna be gung ho about releasing stuff from that period.

Well, the appeal of all this stuff is pretty niche... casual fans want no more than TSRTS, indeed if that. Future live releases are going to be specialist by nature. Plus, the world's changed. Casual fans don't buy albums by the million like they used to, they just pick what they like off itunes or spotify etc. So anything pitched at the casual listener is likely to fall between two stools; it won't attract a lot of causal interest, and hardcore fans would be dissatisfied because we all know there's more out there.

DVD was very good, but there's surely a better job to be done with a fuller audio release of both Earls Court and Knebworth. An audio Earls Court would presumably be able to make use of the other (generally better) nights, for which there's no video.

The big black hole is 1977, which is a shame because there's a lot of great music hidden away on that tour. Plant sings great in 1977, it's JB's finest year IMO, and even Jimmy has a lot of high points. I think Kashmir is better in 77 than 75, for example; it seems to have more punch, and the lead in from White Summer is very effective. No evidence of any multi tracking though.

The other black hole is 1980, where there are occasional rumours of multi tracks, oddly enough. I'd love an official release of Frankfurt 1980, although I realise I'm in a small group there, lol. That show has possibly the best Achilles they ever played.

 

 

[gibsonfan159]

I refuse to believe that Page didn't multi track a lot of shows during 75 and 77. They were the biggest band in the world, how would you not plan for this? They had to have known this stuff would be marketable in the future. It's just business sense. I'm holding my breath on an LA 77 live album lol.

[Cosmic_Equilibrium]

You'd be surprised about what bands don't do sometimes. It boggles me slightly that Black Sabbath didn't do more extensive recording of their live shows - they just did bits in 73 and 75 I think - but it seemingly wasn't a huge priority for them. Equally, I've always been surprised that Floyd never put out a big live album in the 70s. They recorded their 1974 Wembley show and released that as bonus material on the DSOTM and WYWH releases eventually, but I don't think they professionally recorded the 75-77 era.

Sometimes the circumstances surrounding the band can contribute. Sabbath were dealing with an ever-increasing drug habit and legal troubles which probably distracted them a lot. Page as we know was strung out periodically on the 77 tour, it seems logical to assume that he probably didn't get round to multitracking everything because of that. It's more likely he did possibly multitrack in 75 outside of EC, as he was more together for that tour, but it's not certain.

 

EDIT: Actually, when you think about it, Page did more multitrack and video recording than a fair few major bands of the 70s:

1970 RAH

1971 Japan

1972 LA/Long Beach

1973 Southampton and MSG

1975 EC

1979 Knebworth

 

That's more than most bands of the era bothered to do. We criticize Page for not doing enough, but what if he was actually being more productive than almost anyone else from the era?

[The Only Way To Fly]

1 hour ago, Cosmic_Equilibrium said:

We criticize Page for not doing enough, but what if he was actually being more productive than almost anyone else from the era?

Excellent point.