Michael Jackson in hospital

[Del Zeppnile]

I also agree that the news outlets are making it sound like Michael Jackson was the first black artist that "white America" purchased en masse. The Supremes sold as many records as the Beatles in this country, or so I've heard it said.

Chuck Berry

The Platters

Chubby Checkers

Lena Horne

Fats Domino

Ray Charles

Nat King Cole

Lois Armstrong

The Mills Brothers

Sammy Davis Jr.

Michael Jackson pales in comparison to many on the list

[Patrycja]

Although the cross influence is inevitable (ie/ MJ acknowledged he wouldn't be who he was without James Brown), I think it would be better if the media made certain distinctions, say, MJ did for pop what the other artists listed did for their respective genres.

Anyway, it's hard to know what's going inside a person when they're going through a difficult time, but what was with MJ's father plugging his new record company on the BET red carpet????? or defending himself from abuse allegations???? Very weird....

[TypeO]

Saturday afternoon before the 2009 Soldier Show got underway, they began playing som Michael Jackson tunes, which prompted a few impromptu dancers to display their MJ moves - pretty awesome!

[manderlyh]

The Sun is basically England's version of the Enquirer. I wouldn't take anything they say seriously unless a reputable news source has said it first.

Thanks, E.

I haven't checked it out yet--I posted the previous posts while at school no my break, so I haven't had time to surf.

[slave to zep]

just had a quick look at the michael jackson fan club forum. they are saying that the last article that evster posted is a load of B.S. i guess they would be saying that, but i hope they are right. also read that there is 100 hours of his recent rehearsals captured on film, and it shows that he looked and sounded great. talk of it being released on dvd. they say that the people involved in the 02 concerts may still go ahead with ( at least some ) concerts, with guest performers ......

still a lot we don't know here.

so, what do you all think of this?

( sorry to quote myself )

[slave to zep]

a friend just pointed this article out to me .

the coroner dismisses tabloid story ....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009...sy-details.html

[eternal light]

[longdistancewinner]

a friend just pointed this article out to me .

the coroner dismisses tabloid story ....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009...sy-details.html

Yet says, '...some of it is false.'

I don't like the Sun (I'm assuming that's who they're speaking of), but they obviously weren't too far off the mark, if that statement is anything to go by. They may have exaggerated; they may have not. Either way, it's probably fair to say that that information should not have been revealed until his family are, at least, aware of the details. If at all.

At the end of the day, all manner of speculation and dirt-dishing will start to come out now. I don't think we'll get an accurate picture until it's all officially released.

[slave to zep]

Yet says, '...some of it is false.'

I don't like the Sun (I'm assuming that's who they're speaking of), but they obviously weren't too far off the mark, if that statement is anything to go by. They may have exaggerated; they may have not. Either way, it's probably fair to say that that information should not have been revealed until his family are, at least, aware of the details. If at all.

At the end of the day, all manner of speculation and dirt-dishing will start to come out now. I don't think we'll get an accurate picture until it's all officially released.

it must be so awful for the family.

i suppose the rest of us will never know all of the truth, but i do hope that innacurate statements can be dispelled as much as possible.

[longdistancewinner]

it must be so awful for the family.

i suppose the rest of us will never know all of the truth, but i do hope that innacurate statements can be dispelled as much as possible.

Yeah. I actually posted a link to the Sun's article earlier. I decided to get rid of it. If only out of principle.

[slave to zep]

Yeah. I actually posted a link to the Sun's article earlier. I decided to get rid of it. If only out of principle.

nice one!

i'm not even the biggest M J fan, i really like about 90% of his music and loved his moves tho, it's just that, well i kind of have in my mind how we would all feel if ( heaven forbid ) one of our zep boys had this happen to them. i would hate for other forums to be spewing forth all kinds of inuendo, innacurasies etc, y'know?

hopefully in 5 weeks or so, when the autopsy reports are final, we can put it all to rest .

[NickZepp]

I continue to be amazed at some of the things people are saying about Michael Jackson's music. I've heard more than once that he was the "FIRST" black artist to bridge black & white audiences. WHAT?!?!? There's some serious amnesia going on if people forgot:

STEVIE WONDER

MARVIN GAYE

JAMES BROWN

OTIS REDDING

ARETHA FRANKLIN

SARAH VAUGHAN

ELLA FITZGERALD

MILES DAVIS

JOHN COLTRANE

AL GREEN

JACKIE WILSON

WILSON PICKETT

SMOKEY ROBINSON

ROBERT JOHNSON

JOHN LEE HOOKER

BILL WITHERS

NINA SIMONE

SLY STONE

SAM COOKE

DOO WOP GROUPS

on & on...and possibly the ACTUAL FIRST: LOUIS ARMSTRONG

As far as I know, all these folks were around before MJ and white people were listening to them! They just ran the Stax thing on PBS again this weekend-fascinating!

I realize that many people love Michael Jackson's music, like I love my favorite artists. I respect that. I think he was a phenomenal dancer. But I think his MUSICAL importance is being overblown. I don't listen to his music, or the artists I keep hearing that he influenced (Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Usher, hip hop). But I do listen to many of the African American musicians I listed above, and others. I don't know if the younger ones I listen to

(Lizz Wright, Desree, India Arie, Corrine Bailey Rae) were influenced by Jackson or not.

Someone also said MJ made it ok for white guys to grab their crotches. HELLO?!

I've seen a LOT of pictures of Robert on stage w/Zeppelin, grabbing his!

Not that I usually care to see guys do that onstage. I'll make an exception for Robert:)

Jackson was a bigger superstar than any of those. The Beatles, Elvis, and Frank Sinatra are the only 3 I would put above Michael as far as influence. And then there's a few others that I might put in there with him also. But he's right up there. I don't think of him as far as his color because last I looked at him for the last 15-20 years he was whiter than me.

[ninelives]

it must be so awful for the family.

i suppose the rest of us will never know all of the truth, but i do hope that innacurate statements can be dispelled as much as possible.

I hope so too. It's really disrespectful to Michael and his family/friends who are trying to cope with their loss (fans too) having all this rumour and speculation floating about. Though sadly it seems to be inevitable.

[Aquamarine]

nice one!

i'm not even the biggest M J fan, i really like about 90% of his music and loved his moves tho, it's just that, well i kind of have in my mind how we would all feel if ( heaven forbid ) one of our zep boys had this happen to them. i would hate for other forums to be spewing forth all kinds of inuendo, innacurasies etc, y'know?

hopefully in 5 weeks or so, when the autopsy reports are final, we can put it all to rest .

Think of how those of us who were around at the time felt about Bonzo, and the way the media tried to sensationalize his passing, what with the rumors of satanic rituals at Jimmy's house, and all the focus on his drinking at the expense of his talent.

It's not fair to the deceased or to the people who loved him.

[danelectro]

Think of how those of us who were around at the time felt about Bonzo, and the way the media tried to sensationalize his passing, what with the rumors of satanic rituals at Jimmy's house, and all the focus on his drinking at the expense of his talent.

It's not fair to the deceased or to the people who loved him.

Excellent point. Maybe the Zep comparison will put it in perspective for some.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

I recall an interview with Donny Osmond where he reflected how at one point in his career he was almost jealous of Micheal Jackson and how his career exploded while Osmond's sort of fell off the radar. However Osmond then said in retrospect, he would not change one thing about his own career and is glad that he did not go down the same path as Jackson.

I personally think the obvious difference was that despite the Jackson 5's greater success; they did not benefit from having a well grounded family with positive structure to count on. Michael Jackson's parents were for all intents and purposes pretty much depraved scumbags.

I think the reason for Jackson going to the top and Osmond's fall from the top was the people that got (and kept) them there! Jackson was being promoted by major label's for his entire career! Jackson then started working with Quincy Jone's in the late 1970's. Osmond was helped by Andy Williams, William's was a big star and did have some impressive credit's but Jone's has done far more and the Osmond's tried to go out on there own ending up losing there butt's. It's not that they deserved it or any thing it's just not that easy to run a major label.

There where both among the higher rank's of stardom but Jackson just didn't try and run the whole show.

[Del Zeppnile]

Jackson was a bigger superstar than any of those. The Beatles, Elvis, and Frank Sinatra are the only 3 I would put above Michael as far as influence. And then there's a few others that I might put in there with him also. But he's right up there. I don't think of him as far as his color because last I looked at him for the last 15-20 years he was whiter than me.

I'd put Bob Dylan and Chuck Berry above Jackson for sure. And what about Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones?

I think the thing is, that you might just be looking at this from too much of a generational perspective. Jackson was very talented and popular but he was no Dylan. Jackson sold a whole lotta records, but don't forget that Miley Cyrus does too.

But in the end it all just comes down to a matter of taste I guess. I would probably prefer anything Marvin Gaye. Hank Williams or George Gershwin did above MJs whole cataloge.

[NickZepp]

I'd put Bob Dylan and Chuck Berry above Jackson for sure. And what about Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones?

I think the thing is, that you might just be looking at this from too much of a generational perspective. Jackson was very talented and popular but he was no Dylan. Jackson sold a whole lotta records, but don't forget that Miley Cyrus does too.

But in the end it all just comes down to a matter of taste I guess. I would probably prefer anything Marvin Gaye. Hank Williams or George Gershwin did above MJs whole cataloge.

You have to remember just how big Jackson was in the 80s and early 90s. He was probably the most famous man on the planet. As someone that grew up in that period. Jackson was absolutely a mega star. Just like Beatles, Elvis, and Sinatra were. I do agree that there are others that are more talented musically than Jackson, most of those on that list are up there, but just another sample of Jackson's popularity. The O2 shows he was doing were originally only 10 shows, and they sold out almost instantly. This is almost 15 years after his last real major hit. There was a time in the 80s and 90s where you saw or heard Michael everywhere. You can't say that about Dylan, Berry, Zeppelin, or the Stones when they were still at their highest points.

[Del Zeppnile]

You have to remember just how big Jackson was in the 80s and early 90s. He was probably the most famous man on the planet. As someone that grew up in that period. Jackson was absolutely a mega star. Just like Beatles, Elvis, and Sinatra were. I do agree that there are others that are more talented musically than Jackson, most of those on that list are up there, but just another sample of Jackson's popularity. The O2 shows he was doing were originally only 10 shows, and they sold out almost instantly. This is almost 15 years after his last real major hit. There was a time in the 80s and 90s where you saw or heard Michael everywhere. You can't say that about Dylan, Berry, Zeppelin, or the Stones when they were still at their highest points.

All good points, and it's even possible that I am being biased from the perspective of my generation as well.

But here is test for you. I will name a song by a few artists and you can put a song by Jackson (or Jackson 5) next to it that you feel was just as big of a hit or as big of an impact on rock/pop music.

Here we go:

Blowin' in the Wind - Bob Dylan

Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis

I want to hold your hand - Beatles

Johnny B. Goode - Chuck Berry

Imagine - John Lennon

Satisfaction - Stones

SWTH - Zeppelin

My Generation - The Who

[TypeO]

You can't say that about Dylan, Berry, Zeppelin, or the Stones when they were still at their highest points.

Dylan came to our town a couple years ago and it didn't come near selling out our minor-league baseball stadium - maybe 1500 or so in attendance.

[allthekingshorses]

Absolutely no denying the importance of the artists you listed and the doors they opened for people like Jackson. He brought it to another level.

exactly.

[ninelives]

I'd put Bob Dylan and Chuck Berry above Jackson for sure. And what about Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones?

I think the thing is, that you might just be looking at this from too much of a generational perspective. Jackson was very talented and popular but he was no Dylan. Jackson sold a whole lotta records, but don't forget that Miley Cyrus does too.

But in the end it all just comes down to a matter of taste I guess. I would probably prefer anything Marvin Gaye. Hank Williams or George Gershwin did above MJs whole cataloge.

No arguing Dylan or Berry's influence on music - Michael's influence was not just on pop music but pop culture. Dylan and Berry I would say their influence was more from a musical perspective, if that makes sense. Whatever the case is, there's no denying the magnitude of Michael's popularity. As an aside, yes people like Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers sell millions but with them, it becomes more a "flavor of the month" situation. Most of the tween stars have short lived fame where Michael's never waned. Proof being after not releasing anything for years selling out 50 dates in one city alone.

[slave to zep]

Think of how those of us who were around at the time felt about Bonzo, and the way the media tried to sensationalize his passing, what with the rumors of satanic rituals at Jimmy's house, and all the focus on his drinking at the expense of his talent.

It's not fair to the deceased or to the people who loved him.

yes, that was exactly what i was thinking. at least back then we didn't have the internet. i am sure it would have been worse if it was around then. tho in the case of bonhams passing, the band were still at the height of popularity, still a going concern. and john was still a very young man.

[cryingbluerain]

They need to change the title of this thread.

[songbird]

All good points, and it's even possible that I am being biased from the perspective of my generation as well.

But here is test for you. I will name a song by a few artists and you can put a song by Jackson (or Jackson 5) next to it that you feel was just as big of a hit or as big of an impact on rock/pop music.

Here we go:

Blowin' in the Wind - Bob Dylan

Heartbreak Hotel - Elvis

I want to hold your hand - Beatles

Johnny B. Goode - Chuck Berry

Imagine - John Lennon

Satisfaction - Stones

SWTH - Zeppelin

My Generation - The Who

I think you could name almost any Jackson song next to one of those!

But speaking of generational biases, I'm certainly not without. However- I'm not even an MJ fan and my whole life, ever since I can remember, I have known Michael Jackson and his music. I can't say that about Led Zeppelin or the Stones, who are actually a couple of my favourite bands. Yes I might be biased because of my young age- but surely that must say something about how big MJ was. All of the songs you listed, I think can be matched at least in terms of popularity by his songs.

At least that's just what I think. It could just be that I wasn't around for Stairway, and Imagine, and Satisfaction to be released.... but I wasn't around for Thriller either! Yet I remember all those songs and videos being played a lot my whole life.