Jimmy versus Jimi

[Evster2012]

Just watched the Isle of Wight.

Maybe Hendrix changed the approach to the guitar in 1966/67, but clearly by 1970 Jimmy Page was running circles around him. I just watched it, and I Can't Quit You Babe had tons more fire and licks than Red House ever did.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds.

[fsmith9095]

Just watched the Isle of Wight.

Maybe Hendrix changed the approach to the guitar in 1966/67, but clearly by 1970 Jimmy Page was running circles around him. I just watched it, and I Can't Quit You Babe had tons more fire and licks than Red House ever did.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds.

I couldn't agree more. Jimi was groundbreaking and intensly innovative. But Jimmy was way more diversified,passionate and hit the-nail-on-the-head heavy. Hammer of the Gods!

[Suz]

Well, I discovered both around the same time (80's- teen years) and loved watching the Monterrey Pop fest and Woodstock- don't remember if it was video or tv- blew me away. His sound was so incredible I don't know how to describe it. If I recall, wasn't MTV or VHI playing some Hendrix? Maybe it was a show we had here that a local rock station had on tv.

I also had TSRTS video and watched it way too many times. I don't know how to compare those two, as there's no way to know what Jimi would have gone on to do. I know Jimmy has such a wide variety of sounds that it's almost incomprehensible- and sometimes in the same song! He just might be the most influential person in rock with guitar playing alone, not to mention the producing.

[Evster2012]

I guess it can be speculated what Hendrix may have done, but sadly that's all we can do. It was the people who followed who took it to the next level. For many of us, that was Jimmy Page.

[Babs]

I guess it can be speculated what Hendrix may have done, but sadly that's all we can do. It was the people who followed who took it to the next level. For many of us, that was Jimmy Page.

Amen Brother

[Evster2012]

Amen Brother

While I have no doubt there will be differing opinions to follow, for now let's just us be cozy in the truth!

[stonefreelee]

While I have no doubt there will be differing opinions to follow, for now let's just us be cozy in the truth!

who's truth?

[alwizard03]

I honestly love them both but theres a reason i have over 350 live zep shows and its Jimmy Page.

Hendrix was a good showman and a outstanding guitarist.Page is a Guitar God

Jimmy you are the man

[stonefreelee]

Go ahead, rip me to shreds.

well, if you insist...hmmn, were do i start? I believe it is common knowledge that mr. hendrix had, as you under-stated, 'changed the approach to guitar' in '66-'67. What maybe isn't so commonly known is that at the isle of wight, jimi had just flown over from nyc to england after the all- night christening of his nearly complete state of the art studio, electric lady. This is the studio that was nearly bankrupting him, forcing him to tour that very fall of 1970. Forcing him to tour when he was already under extreme pressure from his label and manager to produce product and to tour to pay for his very expensive, over budget, behind schedule construction of his biggest dream-his very own recording studio, designed by himself and (i think) eddie kramer (I know you know who he is...) anywho, add the pressure from his record label and the realization that he was somehow being screwed (or should i say raped) by his shadowy manager, michael jeffery (he was) and his own crushing depression and self-doubt...an all night party, a flight from nyc to england, another flight to the isle of wight, waiting in backstage tent area (i believe), cold and rainy...and then a few amphetamines to help keep him going thru the show. I think by the time the show started, he had already been up for 24 hours straight with little or no sleep. This was not his best show by any means...I see the struggle, the tiredness in him.

His first visit back to england in like, a year-and-a half, he was very worried that he had neglected/alienated his original fans, so to speak, the british (and europeans to a slightly lesser degree) by not touring there as much after he 'broke' - most people know that he flew from the states in late '66 'cause he couldn't seem to catch a break in his own country...long story short, he generally got his 'big break' in England, after chas chandler got wind or him and flew over to nyc and flew him back (at his own expense)...jimi felt he had neglected his english fan base and was worried if they would still accept him after such a long absence...

In summation, jimi had an ass-load of stress, pressure, debt, self-doubt, deppresion, etc at this juncture of his life, august 27 (?) 1970. He was physically and emotionaly exhausted during this show and he split his pants (swear to god! ) mid performance!!! Poor guy! After the last strains of "in from the storm" fade, jimi takes his guitar from around his neck and simply drops it to the stage floor in exhaustion...he was only 27 years old with three weeks to live...his hair was already beginning to turn gray...

And of course JPage also happened to be smoking on the guitar at this stage in his career so it doesn't really help jimi's case!!!

There is not a doubt in my mind that had he survived the tragedy of 18 sept, he would have had a resurgence, a rejuvenation of his career-he was at that time putting the finishing touches on his soon-to-be-released double album, "First Rays of the New Rising Sun". In many regards, this 'new' material was just as vibrant, innovative and, well, just as fucking awesome as his earlier gronud breaking works, imho. He also had a lot more material in the can that was simply not finished at that particular time...future songs...ahh....

With all due respect and admiration to Jimmy Page, he just wasn't in the same league as Jimi Hendrix-no one was! He was truly a natural, self-taught musical genius, an incredibly shy, creative, warm and humble human being...and this in no way lessens the contributions that james patrick page has bestowed upon the world...peace, ev, now you have been experienced!!!!

[AllisonAdler]

I have to agree with Ev here. The thing is, as brilliant as Hendrix was, he really had one idea and one essential sound. I get really bored after one song because they all basically sound the same. Jimmy, on the other hand, has always had a whole range of sounds, ideas, and compositional strategies, and is just a more developed musician (and already was in 1970).

[Reggie29]

If I recall Jimi Hendrix started out as the guitarist in Little Richards band.

He moved to the UK and was influenced by the British music scene around 1967.

He was "discovered" by Chas Chandler the bass player from The Animals.

It was the same time as the Yardbirds were going strong with Eric Clapton along with other blues bands like John Mayalls Bluesbreakers.

Meanwhile, Jimmy Page was involved with playing on most if not, all records coming out of Decca.

The sounds he produced with feed back and other effects preceded Jimi Hendrix by a good couple of years.

Jeff Beck was playing solo putting out songs like Hi Ho Silver Lining.

It is safe to say that while Jimi would have been familiar with the Delta and Chicago Blues he would not have heard it played like they were in England.

They must have all been aware of each others styles.

It is well documented that Page played and recorded with Beck and Clapton on numerous occasions.

Jimi Hendrix was a brilliant guitarist and his technique was his own, as were Page , Beck and Clapton.

Who was the better musician?

Well that is subjective and to each his own.

All I say is appreciate great music whenever you hear it.

Footnote: When Jimi Hendrix first appeared in the US as the opening act for The Monkees

he was booed off stage. Go figure?

[stonefreelee]

I have to agree with Ev here. The thing is, as brilliant as Hendrix was, he really had one idea and one essential sound. I get really bored after one song because they all basically sound the same. Jimmy, on the other hand, has always had a whole range of sounds, ideas, and compositional strategies, and is just a more developed musician (and already was in 1970).

With all due respect, "one idea and one essential sound"? That's what I would call misguided, or more appropriately, misunderstood. I can, however, kind of see what you mean by the "one sound" statement. Being in a three piece band does have it's limitations...however, jimi sure stretched the shit out of that format!!! hee hee...

Secondly, the condensed point of my previous post boils down to this: It seemed to me that Evster, whilst trying to make a good hearted comparison of an apple and an orange, missed out on the fact that Jimi Hendrix was in bad shape at the Isle of Wight festival...and it wasn't a fair comparison, I thought, to lz who was on fire at that time...the implication being that jimi was washed up is what i took umbrage to, because he was anything but...He was going through a seriously difficult time in his life, yes, but he had an amazing doulble lp (and more behind that) coming out, there was promise on the horizon...isle of wight was one of his crappiest performances, for all the scores of reasons I listed earlier...his contract with his record company was getting ready to expire and I believe I read some where that Atlantic was possibly interested, now that would have been intersetting!!!

Jimi also had many ideas and plans to try different things, such as producing, composing(!), etc...he also was interested in expanding the three man format, as evident with the 'woodstock' group, gyspsies, suns and rainbows...or whatever. It needed work and jimi being constantly harrassed by his 'management' to produce some product, (he hadn't had a 'new' release since oct. '68 (?) with "electric ladyland") decided it would be expediant to trim the band at that time. That did not mean that he would not revisit, experiment, revise, subtract, or whatever at some later date. He was in a serious conractual bind at the time and was being sued by warner brothers (?) because of a "contract" that he had signed in, oh, '65 (?) or so.

Jimi's company was clamoring for a release itself and also was being sued by "ppx eterprises", or whatever, for money/product that jimi 'owed' them. The eventual settlement was the "Band of Gypsies" lp...long, long, story short, Jimi's company hadn't had new material/product since the fall of '68 and by the time of the Isle of Wight Festival, august, 1970, the pressure on him to produce was incredible. He had been working hard over the summer of '70 finishing up on his double album (he could have easily have made it a triple, too!) and had also been touring since spring and was clearly exhausted come isle of wight...I just didn't think it was apt comparison or an accurate (or educated) assessment of where Jimi was headed...imho

and i am so frickin' tired right now that I'll have to, ahem, address your final few comments and beliefs at a later, uh, well rested time... ...zzzzzzzz

[ArmsofAtlas]

Jimmy is as good or better than Hendrix in every aspect of guitar, from recording to live, to alternate tunings and slide, from rhythms to solos. Jimmy was sloppy, live, sometimes, but Hendrix was just about as sloppy.

^

You can't hold it against him that Hendrix didn't survive. Hendrix was great, but whether it's blues/rock, blue/funk, r&b, psychadelic blues his playing was aways very bluesy. Page was a jack of all trades.

[Dharmabum]

I just watched the Isle of Wight last weekend and thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought Mitch Mitchell's drumming was awesome. Between that show and Zep's Royal Albert Hall performance of the same year, rock music was truely at its peak in my opinion. Sure Zep took their music to another level in the 70s but the rest of the genre began to decline.

[BonzoEqualsGoodStuff]

I think it's really hard to say who's better because of the fact that yes, the age old argument, Jimi was taken too young. He really only had a few years to make his mark.

But I think there is definitely something to say for how innovative and technically gifted Jimmy is. The wide variety of sounds he came up with over the years with Zeppelin is far more creative and impressive than what Hendrix did on his few albums. (Although what Jimi did was also very innovative and amazing.) But again, Hendrix didn't have enough time.

I really don't think anyone can definitively say who's better. Of course I love them both too much and refuse to choose.

[Led Zeppelin Fan00]

Just watched the Isle of Wight.

Maybe Hendrix changed the approach to the guitar in 1966/67, but clearly by 1970 Jimmy Page was running circles around him. I just watched it, and I Can't Quit You Babe had tons more fire and licks than Red House ever did.

Go ahead, rip me to shreds.

Here's my 2 as well.

If there were no Jimi as we knew him, there'd be no Jimmy as we've known him.

[Zepaholic]

It doesn't alway's have to be "who is better". I'll say that Page is more appealing to me as a listener, mostly because he incorporates more influences into his finished product. His acoustical prowness is above and beyond andbody else in the genre, that's for sure.

Love both players but JIMMY a little bit more.

[kakdaddy]

I think it's a poor comparison to pit Page & Hendrix against one another. Outside of being great guitarists, the way they approached their music & their bands were different.

Page had 2 other musicians who put a lot of great creativity & ideas into the music via Bonham & Jones, even early on in Zep's career. Sure, Page was the main catalyst & vision in Zep but Hendrix pretty much did his thing alone. His band played pretty much played what he stated but with Zeppelin the music came out of jams or they brought their own ideas from home. Did Noel Redding or Buddy Miles even approach JPJ's output in Zep? Mitchell is a great, great drummer but did he bring anything to Hendrix they way Bonham brought the riff to "Kashmir" to Zep for example? It took the combination of the musicians in Zep for them to really shine out. Page's tenure in the Yardbirds is a testament to that because Hendrix was light years ahead of them at any point of their career despite who was the guitar player at the time because nobody in that band was the equal of Clapton, Beck, & Page. I wouldn't even compare Hendrix to Cream, they were also more of a "band" than the Experience or Band Of Gypsy's were.

I think they way Hendrix approached his music has far more in common with how Beck approached his bands in the 70's up until this very day than anything Page did with Zep.

[Tadpole in a Jar]

Pure lead guitar-playing wise, I think Jimi is better than Jimmy. In that same era, Alvin Lee of Ten Years After was better than either one of them; he sadly defines "underrated."

Songwriting-wise, though, no one has been in Jimmy Page's league (along with John Paul Jones) in decades. What thrills me about Jimmy Page is that his playing sounds as clunky as mine, yet he came up with better songs than 20 years worth of GIT and Berklee graduating classes have been able to muster.

I like the reckless abandon of Hendrix's live stuff, and some songs like "Castles Made of Sand" stand up to the Zep catalogue, but overall...meh.

[barrios]

I have to agree with Ev here. The thing is, as brilliant as Hendrix was, he really had one idea and one essential sound. I get really bored after one song because they all basically sound the same. Jimmy, on the other hand, has always had a whole range of sounds, ideas, and compositional strategies, and is just a more developed musician (and already was in 1970).

for me, couldn't agree more, hendrix was great, but his songs are guitar player songs, everyone i know who is a jimmy hendrix nut is male and plays the guitar. page's sonic palette is greater, and his music has aged alot better than handrix's...

[Otto Masson]

I must admit I sometimes compare the two of them also, but in a very different way. No offence Ev, but to me your way of doing it there sounds a bit like, 'Hey, was just listening to Mozart, and I find he's nowhere nearly as inspired as Beethoven'. You'll know what I mean.

One thing I'd like to mention is the fact that Jimmy Page on several occasions has had no difficulty acknowledging Hendrix's stature. Asked by Cameron Crowe in 1975 on his fave American guitarist, Pagey said: 'Well, we've lost the best guitarist any of us ever had, and that was Jimi Hendrix.' (I have only just posted scans of that interview). Already in 1971, Pagey said that Hendrix had 'revolutionized' electric guitar playing. And he's made other statements to the same effect over the years, and regrets he never saw him.

As for the Isle of Wight festival, aside from the points already mentioned by Stonefreelee, I'd like to add that there were serious problems there, and the whole atmosphere was extremely strained and stressful: several performances suffered because of the tensions. Of the ones I've seen/heard, Jethro Tull were great, Free were pretty good (but then, from interviews I'm guessing they didn't really know what had been going on), The Who were good....if by no means as good as in the famed Leeds show. Joni Mitchell had real problems performing there, and for Hendrix it wasn't that good either.

Better versions of 'Red House' certainly exist, and I would suggest Winterland, October 11, 1968; and New York Pop, Randall's Island NY, July 17, 1970. The latter is my favorite. Purely inspired performance.

As for the argument that Jimi kept re-writing the same basic ideas, it's simply ridiculous. Compare 'Angel' to 'Burning of the Midnight Lamp', those two to 'Red House', add in 'Wait Until Tomorrow', and then 'Purple Haze'....I could go on. He definitely did not recycle his ideas more than Pagey did.

EDITED to add a year that was missing.

[dragster]

No margin for comparison at all....Jimmy and Jimi were universes apart. I don't think anyone could get any more psychedelic than Jimi and no-one could surpass Jimmy's technical style!! :)

[kakdaddy]

That live version of "Red House" from Randalls' Island may be favorite live recording of all time!

Really, I don't see comparing Page & Hendrixs' recorded output as fair to either of them. When Hendrix was recording something as brilliant as "Voodoo Child", Page was doing pop jingles with the Yardbirds like "Ha Ha Said The Clown". It wasn't like Page became this amazing talent a year later, he just had better musicians to bounce ideas off of & creative control. Hendrix by 70' had gone through various lineups to see what musicians he could play with that could really inspire him, & with the exception of Mitchell, he never really found that. I think what it comes down to is that Hendrix was the superior guitarist but Page was the master producer, putting all the elements at his disposale to his greatest use.

[NickZepp]

The fact is that this thing will never be settled. One person will say Jimi sucks, Jimmy is the best. Another will say the exact opposite. It's a persons opinion on which is better. Someone gave the example of Mozart and Beethoven earlier. Everyone is different and will have different tastes.

I love Led Zeppelin. They are the best band ever. But I would take Hendrix. He's the best blues guitarist ever. He was so far ahead of his time it's not even funny. To me there is one level of guitarist then there is Jimi Hendrix.

[tyedye]

I just know i love both Jimmy and Jimi.

They have different styles.

On their worst day's, they play better then most everyone else.