Osama bin Laden DEAD

[Knebby]

The only way to get your 'cold hard facts' is for people to die.

I'm sure MI5 could tell you how many people pass through Bluewater Shopping Centre everyday, and an estimate of how many would have been killed if that bomb had been detonated.

Maybe you could take a look at MI5's website which provides more details about the current threats to the UK:

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/international-terrorism.html

I don't need to look, as that is not my point.

I'm fully aware of terrorism and terrorist threats too, thanks.

[SteveAJones]

Maybe because America and many Americans have become so very insular, they are fixated with 9/11 and the 3000 deaths that day and seem to forget the millions of deaths that the Terror organisation called the CIA has caused worldwide.

Oh give it a rest

[Silver Rider]

Maybe because America and many Americans have become so very insular, they are fixated with 9/11 and the 3000 deaths that day and seem to forget the millions of deaths that the Terror organisation called the CIA has caused worldwide.

Americans knew the people who were killed in New York on 9/11. In many cases they were their own family members, spouses, brothers, sisters, fathers or mothers directly related to them. And New York was their home. It was as if someone walked right into their living room and opened fire. If Osama's organization did not want the CIA to target them, why did they invade New York? No one forced them to attack New York. But once they did, they were certain to be on the CIA's hit list.

They weren't raiding the Girl Scout Troop looking for overdue library books.

firstread.msnbc.msn.com

Edited May 6, 2011 by Silver Rider

[cate]

"Oh give it a rest"

Sorry to have to point out the obvious but I was answering Knebbys question not yours if thats alright with you?

Edited May 6, 2011 by cate

[cate]

?

Edited May 5, 2011 by cate

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

Americans knew the people who were killed in New York on 9/11. In many cases they were their own family members, spouses, brothers, sisters, fathers or mothers directly related to them. And New York was their home. It was as if someone walked right into their living room and opened fire. If Osama's organization did not want the CIA to target them, why did they invade New York? No one forced them to attack New York. But once they did, they were certain to be on the CIA's hit list.

My last response on this thread,...

I lost a few friends on 9/11/2001,I was in one of the towers a month before the attack.

OBL was also reasonable for the the USS Cole and the embassy bombings,long on the radar.Thanks Janet Reno!

Silver Rider/Eternal Light,you don't have a clue.

Thank you,President Obama for the go,......sending Team 6 and waxing that @-hole.And thanks to our Allies.

That is all.

KB

[Silver Rider]

^Not sure what you are saying there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

cia.gov

"Thank you for your hard work, perseverance and dedication to our country on a job well done. I was a survivor of the attacks on the World Trade Center on 9/11 and lost dear friends that day. I will never forget walking over burning debris and body parts on my way to the New York Waterway and catching the last ferry to the New Jersey side before the second plane hit. ... I cannot express my gratitude and pride to all of you working at the Agency - from the bottom of my heart and the hearts of the families of the victims that day, thank you all."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pakistan Admits to 'Shortcomings' in Locating Bin Laden

foxnews.com

But the government in Islamabad stopped short of labeling Monday's helicopter raid on bin Laden's compound an illegal operation and insisted relations between Washington and Islamabad remained on course.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Data From Raid Links Bin Laden to Newer Terror Plots

nytimes.com

WASHINGTON — After reviewing computer files and documents seized at the compound where Osama bin Laden was killed, American intelligence analysts have concluded that the chief of Al Qaeda played a direct role for years in plotting terror attacks from his hide-out in Abbottabad, Pakistan, United States officials said Thursday.

With Bin Laden’s whereabouts and activities a mystery in recent years, many intelligence analysts and terror experts had concluded that he had been relegated to an inspirational figure with little role in current and future Qaeda operations.

A rushed examination of the trove of materials from the compound in Pakistan prompted Obama administration officials on Thursday to issue a warning that Al Qaeda last year had considered attacks on American railroads.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Silver Rider

[mstork]

I know you want to deliberately keep avoiding my point, but NONE of that actually proves how many WOULD have been killed had the actions not been stopped and therefore how many HAVE been saved.

But back to the fact that thousands HAVE been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001 - howcome no-one seems to give a sh*t about this?

I'm surprised you're including Afghanistan in this, Kneb. The Taliban made it possible for Al Queda to do what they did. And being a woman in Afghanistan under the Taliban is quite literally a hell on earth. Do you really think we had no business being there?

It appears to me that Afghanistan may be beyond helping but I have no question that the US was trying to do the right thing for the right reasons. Iraq is certainly much more complicated.

[Electrophile]

It's not our job to dictate how the rest of the world lives. No one is suggesting that the Taliban were arbiters of peace and understanding, but the United States is not the world's police department. If someone is doing something in Country Z that we don't like, that doesn't give us the right to invade Country Z and fuck up their shit, unless Country Z came over here and fucked up our shit first. Going into Afghanistan, that I supported. However invading Iraq? Yeah, I don't think so. One of the few complaints I have about Barack Obama is that we're still dicking around over there. It's almost as embarrassing as Vietnam.

I'm tired of our country draining our resources on stupid military endeavors when people in THIS country have no health care, have no access to quality education, can't find work, and can't sustain even a meager subsistence. Don't even get me started on the shit way we treat the elderly and our veterans, either. We're still paying to keep troops in Korea, Japan, Germany.....what the fuck for? Are we still at war with those countries? What about the billions of dollars we spend on aircraft and weaponry that never gets used and never flies?

One of the most prescient things Eisenhower ever uttered was "military-industrial complex."

[Silver Rider]

It appears that the United States continues to maintain a presence in Iraq.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Combating stress with wags and pats

Written by Senior Airman Tong Duong

usf-iraq.com

JOINT BASE BALAD, Iraq - Sgt. 1st Class Zach sat poised as the female airman told him about her day. While she ran her fingers through his golden blond hair, Zach raised an eyebrow to others in the room, as if to say "I'm the man."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And Afghanistan...

Women's Shura in Uruzgan, Provides Medical Treatment and Health Education

isaf.nato.int

“We are happy with today’s shura,” said a local Afghan woman at the shura. “Today should be an outline for future shuras of this kind. We were able to have our voices heard and share our concerns with other women in the village.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'CIA surveilled bin Laden compound for months'

By Reuters

jpost.com

Edited May 6, 2011 by Silver Rider

[MrZoSo]

It's not our job to dictate how the rest of the world lives. No one is suggesting that the Taliban were arbiters of peace and understanding, but the United States is not the world's police department. If someone is doing something in Country Z that we don't like, that doesn't give us the right to invade Country Z and fuck up their shit, unless Country Z came over here and fucked up our shit first. Going into Afghanistan, that I supported. However invading Iraq? Yeah, I don't think so. One of the few complaints I have about Barack Obama is that we're still dicking around over there. It's almost as embarrassing as Vietnam.

I'm tired of our country draining our resources on stupid military endeavors when people in THIS country have no health care, have no access to quality education, can't find work, and can't sustain even a meager subsistence. Don't even get me started on the shit way we treat the elderly and our veterans, either. We're still paying to keep troops in Korea, Japan, Germany.....what the fuck for? Are we still at war with those countries? What about the billions of dollars we spend on aircraft and weaponry that never gets used and never flies?

One of the most prescient things Eisenhower ever uttered was "military-industrial complex."

Have to agree with some of this statement. I will say, most of the time there is a broader picture as to why the US invades a country, and most people would be shocked that it is more often not the case of stealing resources. It can be complicated and difficult to understand, and sometimes, it can be flat out wrong.

[Strider]

When I first read this yesterday in the Daily Telegraph(a British paper), I thought it had to be a hoax, but apparently these two douchebags are serious...UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE! What a couple of ass-clowns. Read below...

Dutch men attempt to report Barack Obama

Two Dutch men have attempted to report Barack Obama for the "murder" of Osama bin Laden at their local police station.

By Bruno Waterfield, Daily Telegraph

May 4, 2011

Ruud Snoeren and Terry Flohr accused the American President of "perpetrating" a crime by ordering the special forces raid that led to bin Laden's death on Sunday.

Police in the Dutch city of Tilburg refused to accept the case and referred the men to an international war crimes court based in The Hague.

"We are very angry," said, Mr Snoeren, 30, a lawyer.

"There is a murderer who has admitted the deed on television and who dumped the evidence at sea. And the whole world is celebrating.'

The pair denied that they were not defending bin Laden and insisted that the al-Qaeda leader should have been captured to be put on trial.

Dutch police officers recorded the complaint but told the men the issue was outside their jurisdiction.

"We have had a conversation and registered it. It is not that we do not take the case seriously, but this is not something for Tilburg police," said a spokesman. "We are not going to commit police resources on this."

The men were told by officers to contact the International Criminal Court in The Hague. "We are going to consider it," said Mr Flohr, 29, a student.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Strider

[Aquamarine]

However, some people like electrophile and aquamarine, seem to revel in their "hatred" and "disgust" for the United States of America

[Knebby]

I'm surprised you're including Afghanistan in this, Kneb. The Taliban made it possible for Al Queda to do what they did. And being a woman in Afghanistan under the Taliban is quite literally a hell on earth. Do you really think we had no business being there?

It appears to me that Afghanistan may be beyond helping but I have no question that the US was trying to do the right thing for the right reasons. Iraq is certainly much more complicated.

Please don't be surprised MStork - if you read back through my posts in this thread you'll see that I haven't anywhere said that killing OBL was wrong, and similarly I'm not saying in my post that you quoted that action against those countries was wrong - that's a whole other chat right there, and my opinions on that are quite clouded.

In the post you quoted I was pointing out that this situation hasn't been an attack on New York followed by the murder of OBL. The innocent civilians who have died in the time in-between are just as important to remember as every person who died on 9/11,

[SteveAJones]

I'm tired of our country draining our resources on stupid military endeavors when people in THIS country have no health care, have no access to quality education, can't find work, and can't sustain even a meager subsistence. Don't even get me started on the shit way we treat the elderly and our veterans, either. We're still paying to keep troops in Korea, Japan, Germany.....what the fuck for? Are we still at war with those countries? What about the billions of dollars we spend on aircraft and weaponry that never gets used and never flies?

I'm tired of bleeding heart liberals bleating about the necessity of abandoning our national security strategy and foreign policy for the sake of committing all available resources to social welfare programs.

Don't get me started on the fact that U.S. defense spending is at it's lowest percentage of the gross domestic product (GDP) in over 40 years. Additionally, the 1.4% pay raise military members received for 2011 is less than the 2010 rate of inflation (1.63%) or in other words a pay cut.

To understand why U.S. forces are in Korea why not read a book about the Korean War which has yet to end? There are also many books in print examining the U.S/Japan strategic alliance. Germany is a forward deployment hub for U.S. forces in the

middle east and Africa.

Billions of dollars on aircraft and weaponry that never gets used and never flies? You don't know what you are talking about

but you've got no problem spending money on people who won't work and seek only to use and abuse the welfare system.

[lzzoso]

I'm tired of bleeding heart liberals bleating about the necessity of abandoning our national security strategy and foreign policy for the sake of committing all available resources to social welfare programs.

Don't get me started on the fact that U.S. defense spending is at it's lowest percentage of the gross domestic product (GDP) in over 40 years. Additionally, the 1.4% pay raise military members received for 2011 is less than the 2010 rate of inflation (1.63%) or in other words a pay cut.

To understand why U.S. forces are in Korea why not read a book about the Korean War which has yet to end? There are also many books in print examining the U.S/Japan strategic alliance. Germany is a forward deployment hub for U.S. forces in the

middle east and Africa.

Billions of dollars on aircraft and weaponry that never gets used and never flies? You don't know what you are talking about

but you've got no problem spending money on people who won't work and seek only to use and abuse the welfare system.

I may not alway agree with you, StevenAJones about other matters, however, I completely agree with you on your above post. I had a feeling people like electrophile (and others) put down and seem to really "dislike" the United States of America for some reason. If anyone happened to read my post (#253) I said that maybe they harbor hatred toward the U.S.A. because the government happened to cut-off their welfare and food stamp benefits. I agree, why give people thousands and thousands of dollars to buy groceries if these same people are fully capable of finding some kind of employment but continually refuse to do so. For that matter, I am all for drug-testing anyone who receives such benefits. I Love MY country and most of my fellow Americans, but come on, enough is enough.

Edited May 6, 2011 by lzzoso

[ally]

Hahahahah, the "allies" are gunning in....my knees are shaking, heheheh .....Same feelings only STRONGER on your persona too....as you can see, IT WASN'T me;););)

Okay, I'll just do what many on this forum have already done...put you on ignore...bye bye now ;)

[ally]

.

I was pointing out that this situation hasn't been an attack on New York followed by the murder of OBL. The innocent civilians who have died in the time in-between are just as important to remember as every person who died on 9/11,

You are absolutely right.

[Silver Rider]

When I first read this yesterday in the Daily Telegraph(a British paper), I thought it had to be a hoax, but apparently these two douchebags are serious...UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE! What a couple of ass-clowns. Read below...

Dutch men attempt to report Barack Obama

Two Dutch men have attempted to report Barack Obama for the "murder" of Osama bin Laden at their local police station.

By Bruno Waterfield, Daily Telegraph

May 4, 2011

Ruud Snoeren and Terry Flohr accused the American President of "perpetrating" a crime by ordering the special forces raid that led to bin Laden's death on Sunday.

Police in the Dutch city of Tilburg refused to accept the case and referred the men to an international war crimes court based in The Hague.

"We are very angry," said, Mr Snoeren, 30, a lawyer.

"There is a murderer who has admitted the deed on television and who dumped the evidence at sea. And the whole world is celebrating.'

The pair denied that they were not defending bin Laden and insisted that the al-Qaeda leader should have been captured to be put on trial.

Dutch police officers recorded the complaint but told the men the issue was outside their jurisdiction.

"We have had a conversation and registered it. It is not that we do not take the case seriously, but this is not something for Tilburg police," said a spokesman. "We are not going to commit police resources on this."

The men were told by officers to contact the International Criminal Court in The Hague. "We are going to consider it," said Mr Flohr, 29, a student.

I would think there would be several defenses to any such charges that may arise. It would have been nice to have taken him into custody for trial, but I doubt that the SEALS wanted to risk their lives any more than they had to do. This was a dangerous mission for them.

If anyone happened to read my post (#253) I said that maybe they harbor hatred toward the U.S.A. because the government happened to cut-off their welfare and food stamp benefits. I agree, why give people thousands and thousands of dollars to buy groceries if these same people are fully capable of finding some kind of employment but continually refuse to do so. For that matter, I am all for drug-testing anyone who receives such benefits. I Love MY country and most of my fellow Americans, but come on, enough is enough.

I think the United States should have an intelligent domestic policy, but I see these issues as being separate from the concern over Osama bin Laden's death. I would not speculate as to whether they harbor hatred toward the U.S.A. merely because they express a different opinion.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Silver Rider

[TypeO]

It's not our job to dictate how the rest of the world lives. No one is suggesting that the Taliban were arbiters of peace and understanding, but the United States is not the world's police department.

This is the part I don't get.

When we don't respond, we are considered "insular" and "isolationist" and selfish, lazy Americans living it up while others in the world are suffering oppression.

When we do take action, we're trying to be the world's police department.

Which is it, and who decides?

It's not like we send in a second wave of McDonald's, Pizza Hut and Abercrombie & Fitch franchises to set up after the military gets done.

If capitalism begins to flourish where once there was oppression, I don't think that's so much dictating how people live as just evidence of what results when freedom is allowed.

Also, the PRIMARY function of the government is to protect the citizenry.

As has been pointed out here and everywhere else, it's pretty sad that OBL was taken out by a guy who was, just over a month ago, about to have his pay discontinued by the same President who is currently basking in the warm glow of somewhat higher approval ratings now that Bin Laden's death is the overwhelming topic on the news.

The same President who is STILL recommending cuts in our military spending, despite the primary function of government I just mentioned.

[Deborah J]

First let me state I am an Independent who leans more liberal. I believe in God, but not organized religion. I was raised to hate evil, not human beings. I am grateful to have been born in the US but I believe this earth was put here for all of us. I know that wars have been waged for thousands of years, still does not make it right. I do rejoice that the evil that OBL created is gone. I know that there will still be fanatics to take his place as he was yet another fanatic in his beliefs that caused a lot of pain, grief, hurt and devastation for a lot of people. My heart goes out to people who have lost loved ones. It hurts no matter what part of this world you are from to lose someone you love and care about.

So many of you here have gone at each other and there have been a lot of rude, misunderstood statements and comebacks posted here and some that make no sense what so ever...and to a lot of people I enjoy spending time with here. It's really sad to see this.

And as far as left wing liberals and right ring conservatives...this is what is wrong with our country IMO. The last time I looked in the sky and saw an eagle fly, it took both wings for it to soar!!

[Magic Fills the Air]

First let me state I am an Independent who leans more liberal. I believe in God, but not organized religion. I was raised to hate evil, not human beings. I am grateful to have been born in the US but I believe this earth was put here for all of us. I know that wars have been waged for thousands of years, still does not make it right. I do rejoice that the evil that OBL created is gone. I know that there will still be fanatics to take his place as he was yet another fanatic in his beliefs that caused a lot of pain, grief, hurt and devastation for a lot of people. My heart goes out to people who have lost loved ones. It hurts no matter what part of this world you are from to lose someone you love and care about.

So many of you here have gone at each other and there have been a lot of rude, misunderstood statements and comebacks posted here and some that make no sense what so ever...and to a lot of people I enjoy spending time with here. It's really sad to see this.

And as far as left wing liberals and right ring conservatives...this is what is wrong with our country IMO. The last time I looked in the sky and saw an eagle fly, it took both wings for it to soar!!

Deborah, as always on here, yours is the voice of reason.

I just heard on the news that the CIA found documents in Bin Laden's den indicating that has was planning a major attack on the US on the 10th anniversary of 9/11.

Edited May 6, 2011 by Magic Fills the Air

[Electrophile]

The dude is cracked. He thinks I'm married to people here because we live in the same state and joined this message board on the same date. He ain't playing with a full deck. Treat him like you would that crazy person at the bus stop who talks to cracks in the sidewalk because he thinks Satan is communicating with him.

[Gospel Zone]

Correct, we were spared that circus and now the country can simply fast forward to partisan politics and grandstanding as usual.

Am I the only one who senses the continued feminization of the country - the pictures cannot be officially released as they are "too gruesome"...or my favorite his death brings us "closure". Can you even imagine men behaving in this manner after Geronimo was

hunted down.

United States Senators talking about closure...bunch of frigging pussies.

I won't even take offense of the term feminization as we do tend to fight like women when we go to war, which only prolongs it.

[dazedcat]

There's something to be said for the United States to stop being the global police agency. I don't disagree with that at all actually.

I don't have much of an issue with what happened to Bin Laden either. Although I personally don't think he had as much to do with 9/11 as the rest of the world seems to believe, the man himself accepted the publicity and ran with it. He had to pay the price as have other leaders of Al Queda. This really should have been the 'war on terror' all along, target the leaders who have sworn to do harm. Instead we invaded a country that had no direct linkage to what happened in New York and we now have an entire generation of dead or severely wounded veterans (not to mention tons of dead Iraqi civilians).

Bin Laden is dead, get the hell out of Afghanastan now then. Mission accomplished.